Interpol to track Thaksin: Thai Foreign Ministry

[OzMick]

How about bringing him back and giving him an "Aquino welcome"?

[bermuda]

@arjay: No, and yes. A body was discovered after the protesters had left, but AFAIK there was no suggestion of foul play. At Don Meaung [being used as temporary 'government house' there were a death and injuries caused by grenades being fired into the protesters.

Regards

Rallying and Protesting in huge number of people is considered as a large crowd and cannot be considered as terrorists as they did not transformed into unruly mobs holding a city as a hostage. That's what the Yellow group did years ago. Unlike the Red group, they mutated from a humble and poor individuals into a mad barbaric group that burned a city.

A body was found(???) ..... perhaps died from exhaustion or was planted by the police as the police are known to be pets of Thaksin. A policeman shooting at the soldiers? He was nuts in trying to give cover to retreating barbaric red mob. Now his days as public officer is numbered and will soon be apprehended by the army.

The problem is not yet over. Disarm the police force and restructure it so as to assure that there won't be any armed force providing support to barbarians such as the red mob.

Culling the army is also deemed important as there are red sleepers within The Royal Thai Army. The army barracks looting under Thaksin rule was carefully planned but failed to divide the country into the North and South.

[midas]

I said it in another forum and I will say it here;

Thaksin has money right? Ok that said his next move will be to go to Argentina, get the best surgical doctor there as many others have done and have a complete overhaul. He could have fat cut off, face reconstruction, EVERYTHING. He could even become a Kathoye (ladyboy). And don't laugh at that. He could walk right through immigration at the airport and be walking amung us tomorow and noone would know.

I dont see your point ?

He will now be under very close surveillance world wide - it doesnt take much to do that

[simon43]

I didn't read all the thread, but I think that the charge of terrorism in Thailand carries the death penalty (not mandatory).

Nevertheless, no EU country will deport a person to a country where the death penalty could be imposed.

In the case of Saxena, he was deported and his charges did not carry the death penalty.

If the Thai government really wants to get Thaksin returned, it might have better success if it changes the charge to one that does not carry the death penalty.

Simon

[Chunky1]

When they get him back, will he get bail and his passports again?

[Bakseedaa]

Seems that everyone forgot one benefit Thaksin can enjoy from this new charge of being a wanted terrorist: he can now really apply for political asylum as victim of political persecution.

In fact, with this move, the Thai Govt made it easier for Thaksin to get this status and be heard at the concerned agency under the UN!

No he cannot...Thailand is not on the list of oppresive countries and as such Thaksin cannot claim any persecution... lets hope they can get him back to face punishment... would`nt that be just great.... Som nam na !!

[Samuian]

Best tried in the Hague if that were possible as there would be a backlash if he were tried and convicted in Thailand, nevertheless megalomaniacs use all their power to destroy their enemies and failing that they destroy themselves trying so it is important Thaksin is neutralized once and for all.

Yes, I like this. Open, public and neutral.

Just the facts Maam. Should be more than enough.

But give him the full Milosovic treatment.

Bet he can't bribe a cushier cell accomidation at the Haugue.

Sorry,my little slip here but taking Tak Bai, Kru Sae, Shippng Moo, Somchai's disappearance the war on drug s into consideration - and how considerate this man was in ordering this - I would suggest the Saddam Option...or no phone, no nothing - with a big sign in Malawi: my Name is........xxxxx. xxxxxx and I am responsible for.. xxxxx xxxx and abandon him somewhere in a rubber plantation somewhere close to Pattani....

ah' well.. okay the hague!

[Bakseedaa]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

PAD did not make car bombs, did not murder anyone, did not shoot anyone , did not fire grenades at anyone did not burn and loot a city centre, did not cause thousands of people to become unemployed... did not murded soldiers, did not shoot their own supporters... and we are talking of facts...

[gpdjohn]

I picture Thaksin tried at Int'l court at the Hague someday, b4 2 long. It will be funny if Ortega, and the Fiji president and the Liberian Diamond merchants, and Montenegran and Thai mafia dons all show up. All the nefarious tough guys that Thaksin befriended by telling them he would pile heaps of money in to their laps. They can all show up at T's jail cell and privately beg Thaksin to pay them some of the money he promised - before he's led away in chains to the blockhouse.

You'd need a UN security council resolution OR Thailand's supreme court renouncing jurisdiction over Thaksin's crimes for him to be tried by the ICC. Not gonna happen. Also Thailand has not ratified the treaties giving jurisdiction to the ICC over their nationals, so I doubt it's possible at all. The ICC ain't some sort of superman of justice. Mostly it tries the people that no one else wants to. Some kind of international waste basket of justice.

Exactamundo! Interpol will put out a "Red Notice" and that's about it.

This is not a ICC case. It is a criminal case within Thailand. That's all, nothing else. He's a little fish in a very large ocean filled with worse scumbags than him.

It would be easier for Thailand to pay the 23 cents it cost for a .223 round and hire a plumber.

[Bakseedaa]

Two questions.

1

If he's banned from entering, say, France and the UK, would that also mean he's banned from using their airspace?

2

With regards to extradition, it is possible that this Geff Savage guy is being set up as a pawn.

1. Savage gets the death sentence.

2. The UK won't allow that and will protest.

3. Thailand reiterates its demand to have Thaksin extradited.

4. The UK pressures Montenegro into handing over Thaksin

5. A swap gets made: The UK gets Savage; Thailand gets Thaksin.

Seems unlikely though since it's hard to see why Thailand would want Thaksin back.

Seems unlikely though since it`s hard to see why England would want Savage back.

[jayboy]

I don't think that we should underestimate the army. My opinion of officers in high positions are that they are surprisingly competent, I wouldn't have been surprised seeing them in top jobs in the private sector and there they are in the army...

What do you mean? The Thai senior officer corps is in the private sector already.

[mazeltov]

Two questions.

1

If he's banned from entering, say, France and the UK, would that also mean he's banned from using their airspace?

2

With regards to extradition, it is possible that this Geff Savage guy is being set up as a pawn.

1. Savage gets the death sentence.

2. The UK won't allow that and will protest.

3. Thailand reiterates its demand to have Thaksin extradited.

4. The UK pressures Montenegro into handing over Thaksin

5. A swap gets made: The UK gets Savage; Thailand gets Thaksin.

Seems unlikely though since it's hard to see why Thailand would want Thaksin back.

Excellent and thoughtful post which some might say epitomises the sophistication and knowledge of the Thai Visa community, and the standard of comment on recent events.

5555

Some really dream hard and give everything for one big goal - to get their Thaksin back.

[ETatBKK]

I didn't read all the thread, but I think that the charge of terrorism in Thailand carries the death penalty (not mandatory).

Nevertheless, no EU country will deport a person to a country where the death penalty could be imposed.

In the case of Saxena, he was deported and his charges did not carry the death penalty.

If the Thai government really wants to get Thaksin returned, it might have better success if it changes the charge to one that does not carry the death penalty.

Simon

ha ha ha . . . that perhaps the point ! anyone want him back ?

the terrorist warrant already good enough for some more countries setting up the 'no welcome' sign for him. no more shopping in Paris.

what next, nail him down . . .

[selftaopath]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

OK, let's be reasonable. Many, including western bodies were already comparing Thaksin to the likes of Milosevic even before the coup for his his human rights violations linked to the death of thousands.

So lets stop putting Thaksin at the level of a few thousand yellows who (illegally) occupied an airport for 8 days, cleaning up after they left to the satisfaction of Airport staff, to protest an illegal government that was thrown out days later by the courts.

Could it be that the protest was a "natural" consequence of Thaksin's human rights abuses?

IF you want double standards, I say, double standards for all!

Re: Double Standards.

Can a county as corrupt as Thailand ask for, or expect any type of fairness/justice? Double standards???? I suspect he is more similar to the people seeking retribution than different. OH and I hope "he" gets all he deserves. I would also hope that ALL the corrupt experience dire consequences for their actions.

[scorecard]

This is all as much a diplomatic push as much as a legal one and a pressure raising one. Thaksin had to make certain changes very quickly to advantage himself whihc is why the November eelction was refused. Now time is running short. This manouver by the government makes us eof time more difficult on a number of fronts for Thaksin such as having to check very carefully status before travelling, mor pressure on coutnries to shut him up or keep him out and another violent move by a group linked to him would have to be thought about very carefully although unfortunately for him the red group that still has leaders and stayed out of the recent round (and were actually highly critical of) are not really under any control of Thaksin unlike many of the currently banged up or in hiding leaders.

Ultimately he should be punished, but it's obviously not simple and the government needs to use the situation to it's best advantage.

I agree that it would probably be better to get past the amendments to the constitution and the next elections before he entered (if he ever enters) Thailand again.

[noahvail]

Saxena was confined in Canada for some 10 years before being extradited? I may have the number wrong.

If there was a country very friendly to today's Thailand, and Khun T went there, and was arrested on the Thai warrant, would he not fight extradition? Suppose it takes ten years. He would be about 70 by then, assuming that the prostate and the vagaries of the Grim Reaper allow him to live. By then, enough governments will have come and gone that most people have a vague memory of him.

The Thai government would be able to explain to Khun T's supporters that it was not Thailand holding him, it was the other country.

Now, if that other country were hospitable, he would have a clean, climate-controlled cell, good food and fresh water, clean clothes, a television, and reading material. No access to telephone, satellite phone, cell phone, computer, and incoming and outgoing letters censored.

No access to his followers, no access to his funds. But he might get a read-only feed of TV once a week.

[YORKSHIREPUD]

Various Agencies to Meet on Thaksin Extradition

BANGKOK: -- Representatives from the Department of Special Investigation, the Ministry of Forieng Affairs, and the Attoney General's Office will meet 2 P.M. today to discuss how to extradite Thaksin Shinawatra back to Thailand to face various charges. The development comes after Thailand's Criminal Court approved an arrest warrest for Thaksin on terrorism charges.

-- Tan Network 2010-05-26

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

What they and all the people of Thailand need to remember about Thaksin is that HE and HE ALONE is responsible for ALL those that DIED because of him, the families of the souls that died will surely NOT back a criminal after they have lost their loved ones because of Him.

When people started dying on the streets, why didn't he call off the protest,I tell you why, Thaksin don't give a flying hoot about his followers being killed on the streets of BKK.

Mr Thaksin, you have blood on your hands,Your fellow Thai people. :D

[Robby nz]

Was on the Thai Tele 5 oclock news that France has told him "please dont come back"

[Chunky1]

Have any of these agencies actually substantiated these claims?

[ETatBKK]

Was on the Thai Tele 5 oclock news that France has told him "please dont come back"

that is a little different version than that in my post #81. Mr T said 'he would come back'.

now, we see that England, Germany and then France, are setting up the 'not welcome' sign ! we need some more !

wonder, what would be the sign at Suvarnabhumi : 'welcome with jail terms', or 'not welcome' :-)

[Hawk]

The government, the "elite", the army have always wanted only one thing from Thaksin, to go away and shut up.

If he had quietly gone away, then he would have been allowed to live in peace, anywhere in the World.

But alas he didn't, he shouted, he showed off to the press, he wanted the limelight and that made the "yellow" people, army and government mad as he kept drawing attention to their illegal take over and the new puppet government.

All previous "dictators" in Thailand were allowed to leave on the understanding that they made no further trouble whilst in temporary exile, all complied in the past, except Mr.Thaksin, so life for him is getting to be more and more problematic due to his refusal to keep quiet.

He shouts, the Thai government shout back, a neverending game which is now putting Thaksin in a more delicate position as more and more countries are afraid to be seen talking to him, hence the circle grows smaller.

Thaksin is his own worst enemy, I know he was wronged by the military stealing his job, but history shows that those "bad" prime minsters that left and stayed quiet were all allowed to come back without repercussions years later.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Hawk

[souvenirdeparis]

Was on the Thai Tele 5 oclock news that France has told him "please dont come back"

not exactly so

today's le Nouvel Obs :

"" The former(ancient) Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra left France on Sunday and asserted in the authorities that he did not plan to return there, while he had to meet journalists in Paris next Monday, declared on Tuesday the Foreign Ministry.""

really well planned, with the Cannes Festival on Sunday, probably his Lear Jet at the airport 30 km away.

there's the article in Euronews that he fights the" groundless" extradition treaty .

[brahmburgers]

They can send him by military plane to a remote island prison. Thailand can do this. I feel people are overly exaggerating the logistical problems with bringing him back to trial. Its worth doing. I believe the Thai government has overwhelming evidence to convict him or they would not have issued this warrant. Ultimately, that would be healing.

We usually agree, but I can't agree that bringing him back would wind up being healing for Thailand. He's such a divisive and inciteful scoundrel. There are a hard core of supporters, however diminishing their %, who drive themselves nuts believing he's the only one who can be their savior. They're the type (like US republican senators) who won't accept any reasoning or evidence that doesn't support their indelible beliefs.

Bringing T back will only inflame passions. It takes 300 years for a forest to mature, but only twenty minutes for one arsonist with one match - to burn it down.

I knew a guy who shot and killed another guy (who had let his little boy wander off and fall asleep on the 1st guy's lawn). The son of the murdered man (elder brother of the sleeping boy) waited 5 years and then found a way to kill his father's murderer. He rented a truck and drove the 1st man's vehicle off the road. Unfortunately, the first man's wife and daughter died in the ensuing car crash, and the original murderer survived. Strange things can happen to bad people.

[lensta]

If Thaksin actually stands trial, it seems to me that it should be in the Hague.

Let's be reasonable and stop putting Thaksin at the same level of Milosevic or a Nazi, but if the Thaksin would face trial at the Hague, the Thai Govt would have a hard time to prove its case.

When Thaksin or his mates were in power, they did not use the army to disperse the PAD, even when they took over the airports [act which falls into the terrorism].

This Govt/PAD DID use the lethal force and the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence.

Thaksin did not call the PAD terrorists, while this Govt is cracking down everyone with some links to the reds, calling them terrorist

The list goes a long way....and we are talking of facts!

"............the burning of some buildings is was a "natural" consequence."

Now would that be spontaneous combustion or lightning strikes, or just red apology? There is nothing natural about 36 buildings burning in a short time period, it is simply terrorism. When it is proved that it was pre-planned and that Mr T was party to that planning, he becomes a terrorist. And it will be proved quite easily. Either his mates will sing to save themselves from a needle, or a money trail will link him to payments, or maybe a little NSA signals interception, or all three, but the truth will out.

There's only one way to keep a secret, kill everyone that knows, ask Seh Daeng.

It would be easy for Thailand to prove its case against this man, tons of d_mning evidence.

Please supply proof of the tons of d_mning evidence, not hearsay, but actual proof like a copy of a bank transfer to one of the red leaders or better still to Seh Daengs bank account. something that may have some credibility, not an opinion presented as fact.

[Heng]

Are there any countries who even care what the heck the Thai gov't 'wants?'

[simon43]

Was on the Thai Tele 5 oclock news that France has told him "please dont come back"

With respect, I nowadays take everything that's said on Thai TV channels with a huge grain of salt! These are government-controlled channels. They have to follow the government line.

If I want to believe a news story from Thailand, then I would check across a range of overseas media. It may well be true, but I'm certainly not going to trust a Thai news source.

Simon

[lensta]

. . . extradite? . . . to Thailand? . . . unlikely any country will extradite to a country of thorough systemic judicial corruption . . . certainly not their own nationals, and unlikely a Thai politician, obviously corrupt and with blood running down his forearms, or not.

. . . Canada took over a decade to extradite Saxena, the Thai national accused of fraud and central to causing the '97 Thai Currency Crisis . . . the guy is nearly dead now, from old age (probably then, subject to some sort of diplomatic deal) . . . does anyone really think ANY country wants the notoriety of extraditing a political hot potato like Toxin for summary trial and execution in a 3rd world country like Thailand?

. . . I somehow doubt this will happen.

Thailand is sure not a third world country..... where are you from..?

You are right, Thailand is not a 3rd world country, but it is a 2nd world country with many 3rd world characteristics

[richard_smith237]

The government, the "elite", the army have always wanted only one thing from Thaksin, to go away and shut up.

If he had quietly gone away, then he would have been allowed to live in peace, anywhere in the World.

But alas he didn't, he shouted, he showed off to the press, he wanted the limelight and that made the "yellow" people, army and government mad as he kept drawing attention to their illegal take over and the new puppet government.

All previous "dictators" in Thailand were allowed to leave on the understanding that they made no further trouble whilst in temporary exile, all complied in the past, except Mr.Thaksin, so life for him is getting to be more and more problematic due to his refusal to keep quiet.

He shouts, the Thai government shout back, a neverending game which is now putting Thaksin in a more delicate position as more and more countries are afraid to be seen talking to him, hence the circle grows smaller.

Thaksin is his own worst enemy, I know he was wronged by the military stealing his job, but history shows that those "bad" prime minsters that left and stayed quiet were all allowed to come back without repercussions years later.

Good points... IF Taxin had not made himself richer in the process of premiering the country, would many people now have a differing opinion of him?

By facing off against the 'Elite' and the military the shift in popular understanding of the way the country is run seems evident given the recent protests.

Would the 'elite' ever be able to accept the greater good ?

Is there a greater good in someone like Taxin backing off ?

Thai History appears to teach that the consequences are only there for the poor.

On the Subject: Interpol know exactly where he is, has been and quite likely where he is going.

[thailandbluegrass]

You people think Mr "T" is worried? The guy is smarter then all politicions in the world put together. Not saying I support him but I do give credit where credit is deserved. This is the latest;

The defence team of fugitive expremier Thaksin Shinawatra on Wednesday filed a appellate writ seeking to revoke his arrest warrant on terrorism charges issued on Monday.

In addition to written arguments questioning the prosecution evidence, the defence called two key witnesses, redshirt leader Jatuporn Promphan and Pheu Thai MP Suchart Lainamngern, to testify on Thaksin's behalf.

Lawyer Thanadet Puangpool led the defence team, including Thaksin's legal adviser Pichit Chuenban.

Speaking before the Criminal Court's hearing on the defence appeals, Jatuporn said he planned to clarify that Thaksin had no involvement in the decisionmaking process in the redshirt movement and that he had no linkage to terrorism.

"I am prepared to explain to the court that core leaders of the red shirts were responsible for every move at the rally without any influence from Thaksin," he said.

He said he could vouch for Thaksin that he was not a terrorist as charged.

Commenting on the video links between Thaksin and the rally, he said Thaksin's last message to the rally was made on April 3 before the state of emergency was imposed on April 7.

During the emergency rule, Thaksin made just one video link to the rally in order to dispel the rumour about his death, he said.

The defence contends the rally was declared unlawful and unconstitutional following the enforcement of emergency rule.

Under Article 135/1 of the Criminal Code, terrorism charge is not applicable to activities of the public assembly as sanctioned by the Constitution

[gemini81]

"Lensta",

Watch the videos in which he says he'll pay 500 baht a day to all followers who attend the protest. look at England who froze his money, thailand who froze 46 billion.

Who else who is a red shirt had the money to sponser all of that? some local reps are wealthy, but not like Thaksin.

The gov't has those documents and records, not for public access. they could then be tampered with or altered (photoshop) How do I know? Tax dept officials of Thailand.

We're not your research team. But I know that you know. I also know you must know they tried to stop 106 other active accounts within the red shirt loop. Look at the money his ex wife took out of the banks here recently. I know you're smart enough to put it all together smarty pants!