I'm with Kung <deleted> Panda. This topic is becoming way too emotive and has the chance to turn very nasty.....Two steps back friends and breath, breath.

why do these subjects always go this way?

why doenst everyone just see the world my way?

<deleted>!

It is not illegal for a state to search a delivery to a hostile entity in international waters and Hamas is certainly hostile. They admit freely in their charter that they are dedicated to destroying the nation of Israel and no if ands or buts about it. The US legally blockaded Germany and Japan during World War 2 and Cuba during the missile crisis and Israel warned these violent activists continually that they would not be allowed to enter their waters.

These activists have claimed over and over again that they did not raise their hands against the soldiers and the mass media keep repeating it, but there is clear video evidence that they violently attacked the soldiers before they had even reached the deck of the ship. They are liars pure and simple and violent liars. The whole purpose of this flotilla was to manipulate the public and they have done just that.

That's nonsense because the video has been aired all over the world (the Israel version....) and everyone knows and has seen that the activists attacked the commandos indeed.

Now that Fox has released the video other media are showing snippets of it as well, but it was available for the first two days after the incident and they ignored it completely. better late than never - I guess.

That's incorrect UG.

You're focusing exclusively on what's happening in the US.

I assure you the video was aired in Europe immediately after it was handed out by Israel. This world isn't only about Fox, Israel and the US you know.

Apart from that it was a video aired and given out by Israel complete with circles, telling the audience how bad these people were, defending themselves, when there's suddenly an attack by commandos in the middle of the night on the Mediterranean at a great distance of the blockade.

ALL the other proof of what happened from video cameras and mobile phones by the activists have NOT been aired, and you know why?

Because all cameras and mobiles were taken by the commandos including other personal belongings and clothes.

You talk about military killed in South Korea but you don't talk about the people killed by the Israelis on that ship; no explanation whatsoever WHY people had to be shot in the heads...

Reports by the returned activists are now coming out that the commandos used excessive violence, also on the other boats. We will see and wait for the reports later of what happened exactly, not just the videos given out by the propaganda machine of the Israeli government and military.

It's nonsense again that the world wasn't outraged by the North Korean torpedo attack.

The whole world is still outraged and the peninsula is on the brink of another war....so don't say here the world isn't.

LaoPo

That's incorrect LP. The world is more than the US, Israel & Europe. I saw video from on board the ship taken by the passengers on Al Jazeera. I wrote about it here a couple pages back. Oddly, I didn't see the Israeli video on Al Jazeera.

..."trying to run a blockade..." ? whilst the (slow) ship was 120 km or 75 miles away from the blockade ?

So you believe the Gaza-bound "freedom flotilla" had no intention of breaking the blockade? Uh-huh.

You anti-Israel people are a hoot.

Koheesti..be careful what you write.

I write what I write and I would have written exactly the same if it would have been another nation or group, attacking an Israeli ship in the middle of the night with so much unnecessary killings.

Be careful and don't you put a sticker on my forehead.

You're dragging this topic into a racist topic.

Be VERY careful !

LaoPo

The ship went there on a mission to run the blockade. You seem to make light of that because their ship was slow and hadn't reached the blockade zone yet. I can understand why an anti-semite would come to that conclusion but since you are not one, can you enlighten me to your reasoning?

You talk about military killed in South Korea but you don't talk about the people killed by the Israelis on that ship...

You mean the people on the video viciously attacking the Israeli soldiers with clubs, knives and Molotov cocktails? They got exactly what they asked for and what they deserved.

By the way, I am not in America. I am in Thailand and I Googled every website, International newspaper and TV network that I could find and only Fox and the Israeli papers were showing that revealing Israeli video in the first few days that I could see.

In fact, most of them had footage from El Jazeera - which you claim was confiscated - with a ranting, raving reporter lying his head off about what was happening and the video showed nothing at all to prove his point.

Later on, the mass media started showing butchered snippets of the Israeli video that were impossible to make out - as opposed to the original - while repeating claims from activists that they were completely innocent. What a load of malarkey.

Some of the knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks and night vision goggles found on the Mavi Marmara.

Euronews showed the Israeli video.

and I Googled every website, International newspaper and TV network that I could find and only Fox and the Israeli papers were showing that revealing Israeli video in the first few days that I could see.

I am convinced I saw the Israeli footage in the first few days on UK TV, either BBC or ITV. And I haven't seen the AJ version yet either, but I haven't looked.

I'm sure that a few media outlets did show the footage or parts of it, but I could not find them the day after it happened and I found lots and lots that ignored it completely.

Actually, some did show the Israeli army footage that was taken from above, but all you could see is that there was a bunch of fighting and not who was doing it.

The one I could not find after a lot of searching was the closeup where you see the soldiers decending to the ship and you can see clearly that they are not holding weapons and are attacked by the hoards with clubs and chairs before their feet even touch the deck. Fox News showed the complete clip and the Israeli newspapers had a link to the video right awy.

Some of the knives, clubs, slingshots, bulletproof vests, gas masks and night vision goggles found on the Mavi Marmara.

Ohh I guess these guys were just peaceful then, bit like the red shirts. No doubt some of the red reporters from thailands universal media would of made a meal out of this one

There were a lot more weapons than this, but the other photos that I found could not be posted on Thai Visa.

There were a lot more weapons than this, but the other photos that I found could not be posted on Thai Visa.

Surely you must be mistaken, these look like ordinary eating utensils.

Self-defence weapons, obviously..........

^what else

That's incorrect LP.

The world is more than the US, Israel & Europe. I saw video from on board the ship taken by the passengers on Al Jazeera. I wrote about it here a couple pages back. Oddly, I didn't see the Israeli video on Al Jazeera.

That's correct; I (and hundreds of millions of people) saw that too.

The point is that these images stopped immediately, once the commandos took control and nothing has been aired after those -few seconds- video images, except for video images, released by Israel.

LaoPo

The point is that the activists told the whole world that they intended to run the blockade and then attacked the soldiers with clubs and knives and lied about the whole affair. Why should Israel give them video or anything else? They really should be in prison.

double post

June 2, 2010

An Assault, Cloaked in Peace

By MICHAEL B. OREN

Washington

PEACE activists are people who demonstrate nonviolently for peaceful co-existence and human rights. The mob that assaulted Israeli special forces on the deck of the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara on Monday was not motivated by peace. On the contrary, the religious extremists embedded among those on board were paid and equipped to attack Israelis — both by their own hands as well as by aiding Hamas — and to destroy any hope of peace.

Millions have already seen the Al Jazeera broadcast showing these "activists" chanting "Khaibar! Khaibar!"— a reference to a Muslim massacre of Jews in the Arabian peninsula in the seventh century. YouTube viewers saw Israeli troops, armed with crowd-dispersing paintball guns and side arms for emergency protection, being beaten and hurled over the railings of the ship by attackers wielding iron bars.

What the videos don't show, however, are several curious aspects Israeli authorities are now investigating. First, about 100 of those detained from the boats were carrying immense sums in their pockets — nearly a million euros in total. Second, Israel discovered spent bullet cartridges on the Mavi Marmara that are of a caliber not used by the Israeli commandos, some of whom suffered gunshot wounds. Also found on the boat were propaganda clips showing passengers "injured" by Israeli forces; these videos, however, were filmed during daylight, hours before the nighttime operation occurred.

The investigations of all this evidence will be transparent, in accordance with Israel's security needs.

There is little doubt as to the real purpose of the Mavi Marmara's voyage — not to deliver humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, but to create a provocation that would put international pressure on Israel to drop the Gaza embargo, and thus allow the flow of seaborne military supplies to Hamas. Just as Hamas gunmen hide behind civilians in Gaza, so, too, do their sponsors cower behind shipments of seemingly innocent aid.

This is why the organizers of the flotilla repeatedly rejected Israeli offers to transfer its cargo to Gaza once it was inspected for military contraband. They also rebuffed an Israeli request to earmark some aid packages for Gilad Shalit, the Israeli soldier held hostage by Hamas for four years.

In the recent past, Israeli forces have diverted nine such flotillas, all without incident, and peacefully boarded five of the ships in this week's convoy. Their cargoes, after proper inspection, were delivered to non-Hamas institutions in Gaza. Only the Marmara, a vessel too large to be neutralized by technical means such as fouling the propeller, violently resisted. It is no coincidence that the ship was dispatched by Insani Yardim Vakfi (also called the I.H.H.), a supposed charity that Israeli and other intelligence services have linked to Islamic extremists.

The real intent of breaking the embargo is to allow rockets to be transported to Gaza from Hamas's suppliers in Syria and Iran. Israel has already intercepted several such ships laden with munitions. Since Israel's disengagement from Gaza in 2005, Hamas has fired more than 10,000 rockets and mortars at our civilian population. This week, two Hamas rockets exploded near Ashkelon, one of Israel's largest cities.

Israel has a right and a duty to defend itself from Hamas and its backers. Our struggle is not with the people of Gaza but only with the radical regime that overthrew the legitimate Palestinian Authority and has pledged to seek Israel's destruction. Each day, Israel facilitates the passage into Gaza of more than 100 truckloads of food and medicine — there is no shortage of either. We, too, want a free Gaza — a Gaza liberated from brutal Hamas rule — as well as an Israel freed from terrorist threats.

Israel will scrupulously review the events surrounding the Marmara's interception. But Israel will also persist in denying advanced weaponry to Hamas. At the same time, the Israeli government will vigorously pursue peace with the Palestinian Authority, which shares our need for defense against armed extremists. The real peace activists are those who support our vision of a two-state solution, not those supporting the terrorists bent on destroying it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/opinion/...agewanted=print

Saw in the NY Post a biased report today.

Surprised they would even run it knowing that....or not actually...

But then this is on par for American/ Israeli reporting

Author was

Michael B. Oren (born 1955) is an American-born Israeli

Michael B. Oren is Israel’s ambassador to the United States.

Now all we need is a reporter from Palestine & we will have the truth somewhere ,,,,,,But it would not be in either biased report

June 2, 2010

An Assault, Cloaked in Peace

By MICHAEL B. OREN

Washington . Also found on the boat were propaganda clips showing passengers "injured" by Israeli forces; these videos, however, were filmed during daylight, hours before the nighttime operation occurred.

Reminds me of the video from the Jenin "massacre" where they are shown carrying off someone on a stretcher, it tips and he falls off then quickly hops right back on, obvioulsy not injured. Or the one where there is an apparent funeral precession, a crowd gathers around them and when again it falls and when the "corpse" gets right up the crowd runs like hel_l at the "resurrection". Then there was the series of pics from Lebanon showing the "civilian" casulaties. You see the same guy weating a red baseball cap helping in some pics and lying around dead in others.

Saw in the NY Post a biased report today.

"Biased" report according to whom?

Reason for edit: racist remark removed

If the little sailing party wasn't about breaking the blockade, what about this???

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jun/0...illa-aid-israel

Saw in the NY Post a biased report today.

"Biased" report according to whom?

Reason for edit: racist remark removed

Ah yes & yet the same crew always calls foul on reports by middle easterners.....

Lets just say if a man was accused of murdering 9 folks...Then he published a account that explains why it was not murder at all...

Yes you would be fine with that?

As to your cut & paste regarding racism...The only racist is the editor as my comment was not.

Lets just say if a man was accused of murdering 9 folks...Then he published a account that explains why it was not murder at all...

Yes you would be fine with that?

If a man were attacked by a gang of people with metal pipes, chairs, knives and stun grenades and ended up killing 9 of them, it wouldn't be murder, it would be self-defense. Was 9 overkill? (no pun intended) IMO, no, it isn't. They shouldn't have attacked someone with a gun in the first place. ANYTHING that happened after they started attacking is their fault and theirs only.

Lets just say if a man was accused of murdering 9 folks...Then he published a account that explains why it was not murder at all...

Yes you would be fine with that?

If a man were attacked by a gang of people with metal pipes, chairs, knives and stun grenades and ended up killing 9 of them, it wouldn't be murder, it would be self-defense. Was 9 overkill? (no pun intended) IMO, no, it isn't. They shouldn't have attacked someone with a gun in the first place. ANYTHING that happened after they started attacking is their fault and theirs only.

I guess it all depends on where it occurs.

If a man enters my home uninvited at night his body will be found there in the morning....

But...also

I assure you in a free spot......Say international waters? If someone boarded my vessel armed...I would use what ever was at my disposal. Yet in your mind they should lie down & take it because as you basically say they do NOT have real weapons

While on the subject...I saw the pics of the so called weapons....All I have to say is HAHAHAHAAHAH

Jeezus you find worse in any Chicago high school locker.

Did you also see the pics of sling shots? WMD's a plenty

Which brings me to my next question ....because I really do not know but....

Again who died & made this group the police of international waters?

If someone wanted to transport even a cargo of rifles & pistols to a country that has purchased them & in doing so

did not pass through others lands or inside others water ways.....Then who decides this? How is the boarding & seizure not piracy?

How was it any different when the US supplied arms to Afghanistan that is now used against the US?

How was it different when others supplied arms in Vietnam to the Viet Kong?

How would Israel react if their shipments of arms were blocked? Not that this was a shipment of arms that they attacked.

If instead the other even had a navy & did stop & empty a ship headed for Israel with what ever....... What would that be called?

Yes I am sure it would be tolerated & swept under the rug.....NOT

I am not saying any of it is right I am just saying as always what is good for one is good for all.

The real intent of breaking the embargo is to allow rockets to be transported to Gaza from Hamas's suppliers in Syria and Iran. Israel has already intercepted several such ships laden with munitions. Since Israel's disengagement from Gaza in 2005, Hamas has fired more than 10,000 rockets and mortars at our civilian population. This week, two Hamas rockets exploded near Ashkelon, one of Israel's largest cities.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/opinion/...agewanted=print

The Turkish ship Mavi Marmara was filled with paid mercenaries hired by Hamas with pockets full of money and no IDs. The captain of the ship admitted seeing then throw their own guns overboard after attacking the soldiers - several of who were shot. There is no defending these criminals.

There is nothing illegal about a state blockading a hostile entity like Hamas and the activist/mercenaries told the whole world that they were going to run the blockade and bring in items that were forbidden - because Hamas uses them for weapons and military bunkers. Nitpicking about it being OK because they had not landed on Israeli shores is typical of those who justify terrorism.

Alan Dershowitz, professor of Law at Harvard Law School, wrote that the legality of blockades as a response to acts of war "is not subject to serious doubt." He likened Israel's maritime blockade of Gaza to U.S. naval actions in Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis which the U.S. had deemed lawful though not part of an armed conflict.

Similarly, Allen Weiner, former U.S. State Department attorney and legal counselor at the American Embassy in The Hague, and now a Stanford Law School professor, said "the Israeli blockade itself against Gaza itself is not illegal".

Ruth Wedgwood, a professor of International Law and Diplomacy at the School of Advanced International Studiesat Johns Hopkins University said that under the aw of armed conflict which would be in effect given Hamas's rocket attacks on Israel and Israel's responses, Israel has "a right to prevent even neutrals from shipping arms to [Hamas]".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_assessments

Lots of interesting reading.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Intifada

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/...d-for-the-jews/

So, should Israel just change the semantics of its fight with Hamas? Heller thinks that would put the Israelis in a bind: “Israel’s defense of the blockade thus appears to create a serious dilemma for it. Insofar as Israel insists that it is not currently occupying Gaza, it cannot plausibly claim that it is involved in an IAC with Hamas. And if it is not currently involved in an IAC with Hamas, it is difficult to see how it can legally justify the blockade of Gaza. Its blockade of Gaza, therefore, seems to depend on its willingness to concede that it is occupying Gaza and is thus in an IAC with Hamas. But Israel does not want to do that, because it would then be bound by the very restrictive rules of belligerent occupation in the Fourth Geneva Convention.”

If opinion pieces are now being posted, how about this one?

________________________________________________

The Hamas Love Boat

We have it on good authority -- from the ever-reliable Leftmedia, of course -- that malice-toward-none pacifists were mercilessly gunned down by ruthless Israeli commandos this week aboard a Turkish-flagged ship bound for the Gaza Strip on a humanitarian mission to deliver food, blankets and world peace to the tranquility-lovers of that region. The hate-mongering Israelis were, of course, armed with the deadliest of weapons -- the dreaded paintball cannon, a non-lethal riot-dispersion weapon -- while the peaceniks had mere steel rods, clubs, knives, fire-bombs and glass-marble-armed slingshots. Oh yeah: did we mention the "peace activists" were equipped with night-vision goggles, as well? "Pacifists," indeed. Nope, nothing to see here, folks, move along.

What actually happened? A radical Turkish group having close ties to terrorist organizations al-Qa'ida and Hamas -- the terrorist group whose stated mission is "eternal war until Israel is destroyed" -- attempted to run a blockade imposed by Israel for vessels bound for Gaza. The blockade was imposed in the wake of Hamas' incessant smuggling of thousands of Iranian rockets, missiles and other weaponry into Gaza and subsequent use of them on Israel's cities. The blockade allows humanitarian supplies to pass upon inspection, but prevents arms shipments and the like. Only after the commandos were viciously set upon by an awaiting mob did they radio for and receive self-defense, live-fire authorization. Nine Islamist mobsters died (including one American citizen/useful idiot) and dozens were seriously injured, including several commandos.

From a strategic perspective, Hamas is testing Israel's resolve to enforce its blockade. Especially in light of Hamas' determination to wipe Israel off the face of the planet, we strongly support Israel's inherent right of self-defense. Besides, claims that this incident was simply a "misunderstanding" just don't pass a straight-face test. Commandos boarded the ship only after it ignored multiple orders to allow inspection or to turn back, and five other Gaza-bound vessels had been inspected and had passed without issue prior to this incident. No, as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu observed, this confrontation arose from a fundamental truth: "This wasn't a love boat. This was a hate boat."

Something I find quite interesting about this whole episode is the involvement of Turkey who not so long ago were pro Israel and recent events have seen an about face, perhaps stronger leanings towards Islam?

Or, are the Turks now trying to show their Arab neighbors that they are worthy of being good buddies. It may stem from Turkey's failure to secure EU status mainly because of their illegal occupation of Kibris since 1974 and are looking for friends etc elsewhere?

Sad to see deaths under any circumstances but the same dickheads are at it again http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/middl...e-95614054.html

What a world we live in!

Lots of interesting reading.......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

The very first line from the above link:

"The Gaza Strip has been blockaded by Israel and Egypt since June 2007,..."

I wonder if you read it because no matter how many times it is pointed out that Egypt is apart of this you Israel-haters simply ignore it.

I guess it all depends on where it occurs.

If a man enters my home uninvited at night his body will be found there in the morning....

Then you finally agree with what the Israelis did was right? It took a while but it's good to see you come around.

The Israelis were there to protect their home. A group lof criminals attempted to bust into the house and got killed. It's nice to hear you would have done the same.

If opinion pieces are now being posted, how about this one?

The Hamas Love Boat

Dont you want to include the link? Or at least their cartoon from that article?

No wonder they had to be head shots...Since after all it was just paint balls right?

The very first line from the above link:

Yes none have ever said it was not....Yet it was not the Egyptians in this altercation...

But then you would have no place to use your xxx haters routine would you?

It's nice to hear you would have done the same.

Poor boy ......You have yet again shown your lack of reading comprehension...

Unless of course your so demented to think any race can claim their house extends into international waters???