Know A Good Lawyer In Chiang Rai?

[bifftastic]

hi, any of you knowlegeable CR folks know a good lawyer who knows his/her way around an usufruct or sit thi gap gin ta lord shee vit ? Apologies for the dubious transliteration. I will be needing their services in a few months time. Someone who isn't averse to email would be nice as much of the communication will be long distance to begin with.

Cheers, Biff

[dindong]

Chiangrai Law Office

[bifftastic]

Thanks for the link. Have you used these lawyers yourself? I'm looking for some personal recommendations :-)

[bifftastic]

ok, seems as though there are no personal recommendations for lawyers in the rai. Would I be able to use a lawyer in another province? I'll happily take recommendations from anyone who has had an usufruct successfully completed.

[villagefarang]

My wife dragged me down to the Thoeng land office one day while all the locals were out planting rice. With not much to do, they were quite happy to fill out and process the usufruct paperwork for the hefty price of 75 baht, I believe it was. My name is now on the Chanote and we opted the the lifetime option over a time limit.

Heaven forbid anything happens to my wife, but she wanted me to be protected from the in-laws. Not that life would be bearable here, without her.

[kandahar]

Hey Biff.

I know lawyers but have not used them for my personal business. The family here has used one of them quite a bit for small items.

I suggest that you do use one, as the language thing will be beyond you and you need to know exactly what it says.

Also keep in mind that you can inherit one rai in the case of the loss of your spouse if she is listed as the owner and the one rai should be the location of your house. The chanote for that one rai should be separate from any connecting rai. So, make sure that the will is drawn up as well, so that if something happens to her, you don't have to worry about someone fighting the usufruct. Better to be guaranteed ownership instead of only use of the house in the case of such a loss. At least your investment in the house is protected if you should lose her. The usufruct is more to protect you if the partnership should fail. Sorry to be morbid but life is life and death is too.

Check this website and hit the "contact us" button and submit your question about the lawyer. http://retiringinthailand.net/ This guy has apparently already been down that road and maybe he can recommend someone for you. It appears to me that a lawyer from anywhere can write the thing up but you have to register it yourself at the land office for your area. It also appears that anyone can write it up but again, a lawyer on your side is a good idea.

If you don't get any answers, let me know. I'll hook you up with two different lawyers that I know. The wife trusts one of them very much as they are old school mates but she is expensive for Farangs.

[bifftastic]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The main reason for wanting this are the, supposedly, morbid ones. My girlfriend was surprised and unhappy that both our names could not be on the title deed as owners, her concern was that if something happened to her that I would be able to continue living in the house with her children. I completely agree that such circumstances don't really bear thinking about, especially since at the moment, I don't even have the possibility of living there at all!

Having said that it is important to plan for the future.

VF, if I understand you correctly, the kind folks at the land office did it all for you? Can you remember what the documentation was called in Thai? I did read somewhere that an usufruct needs to be placed on the title deed at the same time it's transferred, in your case it seems it was done afterwards.

Kandahar, thanks for the info, I'll follow that up.

This is all way down the live at the moment, as I don't even have the money to buy the dam_n place just yet!

One step at a time.

Thanks guys

[sceadugenga]

When we discussed it before I'm sure he said you have to be legally married...

Not just practising.

[bifftastic]

legally married? Ok cool, that's part of the plan anyway. By the way, who's the 'he' you refer to?

[sceadugenga]

Sorry, I thought you were talking about VillageFarang.

I must admit that the thought of getting married (again) doesn't exactly appeal. If I did it would be for the wrong reasons and the Mrs (in waiting) realises that and doesn't push the issue.

Still, if she REALLY asked me nicely...

[bifftastic]

ah ok gotcha now

well I did say the next girl that falls in love with me will have to marry me, also said I'd had it with local girls. See how you got to be careful what you wish for?

[bifftastic]

Hey Biff.

I know lawyers but have not used them for my personal business. The family here has used one of them quite a bit for small items.

I suggest that you do use one, as the language thing will be beyond you and you need to know exactly what it says.

Also keep in mind that you can inherit one rai in the case of the loss of your spouse if she is listed as the owner and the one rai should be the location of your house. The chanote for that one rai should be separate from any connecting rai. So, make sure that the will is drawn up as well, so that if something happens to her, you don't have to worry about someone fighting the usufruct. Better to be guaranteed ownership instead of only use of the house in the case of such a loss. At least your investment in the house is protected if you should lose her. The usufruct is more to protect you if the partnership should fail. Sorry to be morbid but life is life and death is too.

Yeah a will is important. We, none of us, like to think about it but the thing that worries me most is if she dies before the children are of an age to inherit the house. Who would the house belong to in the mean time?

This is the main reason for buying it in the first place as her family do not own any land in this province. They are originally from Korat and pi sao has married (not officially) into a Chiang Saen/Laos family who own the land/houses that everybody lives on/in. As far as relationships breaking down, well, we all take that chance whatever country we live in, so the usufruct, as I was given to understand it, would give me some kind of bargaining rights if things all turned sour. Having said that, if things turn sour they're sour and I can't imagine myself trying to take her to court to get money she doesn't have and succeed in taking her house away from her and her kids. I would, however, should she die, want the right to carry on living in the house, with the kids, until my own time is up.

So, it may be the case that a will is all that's needed. I understand the possibility of inheriting the house but then I'd need to sell it within one year or fall foul of the 'farang cannot own land' thing right?

Advice welcome,

thanks again

Edited June 28, 2010 by bifftastic

[kandahar]

It is my understanding that you can own the one rai until you sell or die. Any other lands exceeding the one rai have to be off your name within one year. That is the reason for making sure that the house and its one rai is listed on its own Chanote, separate from adjoining lands that she might own.

Edited June 29, 2010 by kandahar

[klikster]

I just bought a house and in the process the officer at the land office suggested a "stay for lifetime" which I assume is an usufruct rather than a 30 year lease. The officer added it to the chanode (my name transliterated from Roman character to Thai script). The land office fee was just over Bt 1,000. It took her a total of 10 minutes and was added about 1 week after the sale. The sale had already been recorded and chanode issued in gf's name. I am now duly registered and added to the chanode.

If I understand correctly, you do not need to be married to create an usufruct. It is basically an agreement between property owner and "leasee". In many respects, it is stronger than a 30-year lease. There is a French Canadian guy in Korat who runs a law office and does a lot of this type of work. He has posted some significant information here on TV. I think that I remember his saying that an usufruct with gf has better legal standing (in case of divorce) that one drawn with a wife as lessor. Look up "Issan Lawyers".

I don't think there is a 1 rai limit on an usufruct as it is a leasing arrangement rather than ownership.

[kandahar]

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply anything about one rai with the usufruct. The one rai applies only in the case of the Farang inheriting the land.