"We Are Guests In This Country"

[Jingthing]

As a general opinion I think a lot of westerners would be a lot happier not sweating the small stuff here. I couldn't give a flying one how some Thais view us. If they see me as a guest then so what. It has no effect on my everyday life whatsoever. Their opinion has no bearing at all on my day to day life. If a local is rude enough to point out to me that I'm a guest or farang or whatever then I'm happy to let them revel in their ignorance without giving it a second thought.

Agreed. It's important to maintain a modicum of sanity to either have or develop really strong FILTERS living in Thailand. This is particularly true in Pattaya.

[ScienceGuy]

Well according to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, of which Thailand is a signatory:

Article 1 All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 9 No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

Article 15

• Everyone has the right to a nationality.
• No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.

Article 17

• Everyone has the right to own property alone as well as in association with others.
• No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his property.

So to answer your question, the next time you are arbitrarily detained, treated with indignity, and deprived of your property(money) you should show the cop the thai translation of the above: Thai version of UNDHR

As to being a guest, you will stop being a guest when you apply for an immigrant visa or change of status to permanent resident. Despite the extortionary rules and fees for residency, you are are considered a lawful permanent resident(LPR) as soon as you have an immigrant visa and enter the country or change status. I don't think Thailand offers immigrant visas...You are also considered a naturalized citizen after 5 years of LPR and can apply for citizenship. Once you're a citizen you are "Thai+another country" like Thai-American. If you renounce your prior citizenship you will be Thai. Then they can't deport you, haha, but you may have to do military service or other obligations.

[fletchsmile]

You can dress it up in as many ways as you want: regulations, citizenship, permanent residency, human rights, contributions to society, paying tax, having children and so on. I know people who fulfill all those requirements, and even born here (to foreign parents), lived virtually all there lives here, but are still viewed as a foreigner, even though technically they might be regarded as Thai.

The reality is you will not in my lifetime(s) be perceived as being the same as a Thai person born here to Thai parents.

Learn to live with that and you've a great chance of being happy here. Start getting into what "should", "ought to" be and you're setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment...

BTW There's no harm in trying to change it all, as many of us look to improve life. Just don't get too wound up if (when) you fail.

Edited July 11, 2010 by fletchsmile

[terryfix]

We are all beating about the bush here. Thailand is a land for Thai people. A racist country in probably the most polite way, by calling you a 'guest'. This means that if you are non-Thai you WILL be treated differently. Sometimes even 'beneficially', e.g. native English speakers are in huge demand in Thai schools, and will be highly regarded by his/her Thai colleagues as a 'status' symbol. Thai people, in general, look up to a 'Farang' providing the farang is neat and tidy and looks like a clean living citizen.

Sometimes, you will fall foul of the law. Non-Thai are regarded as 'easy money' and if you break a law (however stupid it might appear) you cough up (at least in the main tourist areas). Simple as that. My only advice (given to me by a long term resident) is to explain that you LIVE in Thailand, and are part of the community - NOT a tourist. Then you could get charged at Thai rates, or even let off, or even not being bothered at all.

I am not being devisive here, just telling it like it is.

[cottmann]

I'm not a guest - I'm a customer!

In response to the long-term marketing program of Thailand, under the brand name of "Amazing Thailand," by the Tourism Authority of Thailand, I've purchased the product. TAT was accepted - and widely publicized - the international marketing awards it has received for its "Amazing Thailand" brand, patting itself on the back at the success of its marketing strategy.

TAT, however - and Thais in general - have not thought through the meaning of its marketing and branding strategy and so should not be surprised when customers reject the "you're a guest" line and decide to purchase other branded destinations. For example, compare the large number of foreign tourists in Cambodia at present with the lack of foreign tourists in Thailand.

Edited July 11, 2010 by cottmann

[hhgz]

"So the question is, at what point do we stop being "guests" in Thailand?"

You're trying to disguise your complaint as a question. Regardless, you'll always be a guest in Thailand. I'd be happy to assist you carrying your luggage to the next plane...

[frankman]

I don't get too annoyed when Thai's say that I am just a guest here.   What annoy's me is when farangs on TVF say "remember, you are only a guest here".

SOOOO true !!!  :jap:

[VBF]

Is it only coincidence that the Thai apologists always joined this forum less then 3 months ago.

That's because they keep being reincarnated.

Or because they still have the rose-coloured spectacles on and expect Thailand to be the way THEY conceive it to be rather than how it actually is!

Edited July 11, 2010 by VBF

[mrtoad]

So to answer your question, the next time you are arbitrarily detained, treated with indignity, and deprived of your property(money) you should show the cop the thai translation of the above: Thai version of UNDHR

Do you cary that around with you? I am sure that Cunstable Somchai would be very impressed.

[imaneggspurt]

Pretty well sums it up, cant own land ,.. even if married to a thai almost impossible to become a citizen, and visas requred ,the cops are racist ( o yes they are ) i was stopped for no hemlet, ,as i was being booked A COP rode the the other way with NO HELMET , i said "what about him " cop replies " yes ,but you farang ! "

[Garry9999]

You know the answer to your own question. The reality is that you were shaken down by a crooked cop that really isn't crooked within the Thai context since such behaviour is encouraged and condoned by the governing authorities. What we see as corruption is acceptable in Thailand, since no one ever takes to the streets and no one is ever charged and convicted etc. This is why Thailand will never advance as a nation. Dishonest practices discourage innovation and sustainable development since the incentive to succeeed is removed. It's all about short term profits. You are a guest in the upside down world, where wrong is right and right is wrong and the people live with it. When a government official, and a police office at that, tells you that you are a guest, take the hint. This is the way it is and there is nothing that you can do about it. if you want to live in Thailand then you have to accept it. You are the house n*gger; Treated a little better than the field slaves, but still a slave and still subject to the abuse and denial of basic civil liberties, because you are not Thai.

I asked my wife once, "Why do the Lao Hmong refugees have to be sent back to Laos?" she replied, "because they are not Thai"

Patriotism taught in Thai schools tends to lead to this line of thinking.

[petedk]

I feel completely for the OP.

There are so many of you saying things like "in America you'd get 3 points for parking..." "In England if you did that...".. bla bla bla. This is NOT England or USA and even though there may be similar laws you can forget anything about them being enforced.

There is a crossing right outside Thong Lor police station. Try crossing that on a busy day. First there are no cars that stop (even though they can get fined for not doing so). Then when you arrive on the opposite side from the police station it's impossible to get to the footpath for motorcycles parked there. Oh did I forget to mention that often one or two of the motorcycles belong to cops who are eating at the restaurants?

It's also impossible to walk on the footpath right there because of the vendors so I took the liberty of walking on the road. A cop came running out of the restaurant and "ordered" me to walk on the footpath. I noticed he didn't say anything to the 2 or 3 Thais also walking on the road.

Yes we are "house n*ggers" as mentioned by another poster. We just have to put up with it sometimes.

[ralph02]

The funny part about this guy is that he lives in Thailand and is under the illusion that he should not be looked upon as a tourist or a guest.

Jeez, blind freddy knows that if you are a round eye and Caucasian the population will look upon you as such.Cant see any problem with that as Thailand is not there country but is there's.

So be it and accept that you are only a visitor in there country.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

we are all guests not just in thailand but on the entire planet and only for a short time too.

[simon43]

I think it's important to make a distinction between visiting tourists and 'expats' who stay here long-term.

If I were a tourist who was visiting Thailand for one or two weeks, as a result of the TAT promotions, I think I would be justified in suing TAT for misrepresentation of the product. The attitude of many Thais to tourists is 'give us your money and then <deleted> off', (which is an attitude that is not limited to Thailand).

When I worked as a Tourist Police Volunteer in Phuket/Pattaya/Bangkok, this attitude to visiting tourists shocked me. Talk about biting the hand that was feeding you.

As far as expats are concerned, we were never invited to come and stay here, were we? Thailand does not encourage foreigners to come and reside in this country. There is no retirement program, such as the 'Malaysia - my second home' program. There is no attempt to encourage talented/educated foreigners to come and reside in the country, such as Singapore offered when I graduated from UK university. There is no policy to encourage young, overseas families to emigrate to Thailand, as countries like New Zealand offer. There is no policy to encourage overseas teachers to come and help kids learn English, (not tinglish).

The Thai 'official' attitude to expats seems to be "take it or leave it - we don't care". I hasten to add that this is the official, government line. Individual Thais vary hugely in their personal attitude to foreigners, and of course this attitude is greatly affected by the attitude of the individual expat themselves.

Personally, I have never had any issues with Thai's being rude or abusive to me. But I also think that most Thais consider foreigners to be exactly that - a foreigner, which means that they do not have the same rights of Thais.

After 8 years of living in Thailand, and with the exception of my family, I've given up trying to relate to Thais. It seems rather a waste of time. I'm happy to live here, but then I would be happy to live in other countries as well.

So, am I a guest in Thailand? No - a guest is made welcome. Am I a tourist in Thailand? No - tourists usually like to spend money I guess I am just a Traveller in Thailand (TIT)!

Simon

[Ulysses G.]

Individual Thais vary hugely in their personal attitude to foreigners, and of course this attitude is greatly affected by the attitude of the individual expat themselves.

Personally, I have never had any issues with Thai's being rude or abusive to me.

In general, I find Thais to be polite and friendly - yes, there are some bad apples too - but, of course, it depends a lot on how polite and friendly you are to them.

[simon43]

If I have to identify one single issue that sets us apart, then it is the lack of a realistic immigration process - the ability for a long-stay expat (retired or living here with a family) to obtain a long-stay, residence permit. PR has proven to be completely stalled; I believe those applicants in 2006 are still waiting for an outcome.

Staying in Thailand on a 365 day temporary visa/visa extension, the renewal of which is at the whim of an individual immigration officer and how he/she decides to interpret the rules on that day, is not an encouragement for foreigners to consider Thailand as a long-stay destination

Simon

[jazzbo]

... and when a cross-section of Thai citizens -- from those in a restaurant to Immigration officials to bank officers, etc. in English or Thai -- casually ask you "... and what is you actually do while you are here in Thailand ..." that answer will go a long way in determining what level of respect you will then receive.

[TaoNow]

Yes, Simon43 and Jazzbo, I think that most Thais would prefer that foreigners visit Thailand just on a temporary basis, to spend or invest in Thailand, or employ Thais. And then leave.

They are a tribe, after all, and feel more comfortable among their own people.

Even despite the virulent differences between the protesting factions, if a Red met a Yellow in, say, Oslo they would sooner become fast friends and dinner partners, before becoming friends with a Norwegian.

So their relationship with the average foreigner is benign tolerance.

As long as you behave in accordance with Thai cultural norms you can peacefully co-exist with them.

If you want to behave otherwise at least stay your respective ethnic zones.

They won't run you out of the country. But they will often remind you that you are not one of them and never can be.

So, the successful ex-pat in Thailand first needs to identify the things of enduring value here that can be accessed by the foreigner without breaking laws or customs.

And if those Thai things of value outweigh the costs of being shaken down from time to time, then that ex-pat will have a generally good time.

[goatfarmer]

A piece of rhetoric which, if you were smart thinking, you could have turned to your advantage: "As a guest you should treat more more leniently."

As to the issue, even the Indian Thais are called guests. They've been here for centuries. "Guest" doesn't mean you have no rights.

Edited July 12, 2010 by goatfarmer

[thaibeachlovers]

I'll behave like a guest when I'm treated like one.

Till then, I'm a CUSTOMER and any business that doesn't treat me like one loses my money!

[uptoyoumyfriend]

I am a citizen of the united states of A ,a country that prides itself as the most .

most democratic,equal opportunity,free choice of religion,most prisoners ,most obese, capital punishment,standard of living,in short the united states of most.but not everybody.if you were inclined to go visit there you have to be priviliged to do that.and then you would find out that short of marrying a citizen you have very little possibilities to extend your stay beyond the initial 3/6 months granted.

especially not to skimp by on meager pensions . most unfortunate.

and to get back to the original quest of this post,when you're stopped by one of our formidable highway troopers ,a 6 foot something donut munching 280 pounder that will take down your nose to the pavement if you make the wrong move then you will appreciate that the thai cop calling you a guest trying to get a measly 5 bucks out of you is just a clown on a salary that is below poverty level.

Edited July 12, 2010 by uptoyoumyfriend

[Briggsy]

Thais make no apology for not subscribing to the theory of racial integration as currently propounded in the West.

The result is if you told an immigrant from Ghana who had lived in the UK for 3 or 4 years and got his ILR that he was a guest, you would be branded as a racist social pariah. Whilst if you said a farang who had lived in Thailand for 10 years and got his permanent residency was other than a guest in the country, you would be branded a social pariah.

Go figure.

[harrypatterson]

The only people in Thailand who ever told me I was a guest here are farang. Thai people have never said I was not welcome or should go home or anything of the sort. This whole subject actually never occurs to me. I really believe as long as one behaves decently they will no more problems with people here than from wherever they come from. In fact, just this week a farang friend of mine with Thai wife passed away. Every Thai person I know who also knew this man is upset by the treatment he received from his wife. They gave him same respect and were just as sad by his passing as if he were a Thai person,and during his illness Thai people really went out of their way to help him and make his life easier. I know a farang who has very serious financial problems and Thai people, some of whom are poorer than he is, are always giving him food and lending him money. I just do not see the prejudice and bigotry against farangs that I often read about on forum. I am sure this happens, but like I said, I personally do not see it.

[phutoie2]

Up here my neighbours regulary ask "When your holiday over?, when you go back work own country?"

I have given up telling them, "this my home now"

[Lancelot]

"We are guests in this country..."

Look at it another way, the cop did the OP a favor in the vein of telling him face to face that he is not (and never will be) accepted.

Just the way it is (Unfortunately)

[Berkshire]

The only people in Thailand who ever told me I was a guest here are farang. Thai people have never said I was not welcome or should go home or anything of the sort. This whole subject actually never occurs to me. I really believe as long as one behaves decently they will no more problems with people here than from wherever they come from. In fact, just this week a farang friend of mine with Thai wife passed away. Every Thai person I know who also knew this man is upset by the treatment he received from his wife. They gave him same respect and were just as sad by his passing as if he were a Thai person,and during his illness Thai people really went out of their way to help him and make his life easier. I know a farang who has very serious financial problems and Thai people, some of whom are poorer than he is, are always giving him food and lending him money. I just do not see the prejudice and bigotry against farangs that I often read about on forum. I am sure this happens, but like I said, I personally do not see it.

Very good points, Harry, and very refreshing to read. This reinforces my belief that people generally get what they give. If any farang is being treated badly in Thailand, it's usually because he/she is behaving badly in some shape or form.

[hansum]

This reinforces my belief that people generally get what they give. If any farang is being treated badly in Thailand, it's usually because he/she is behaving badly in some shape or form.

I went into immigration in Jomtien with lots of paperwork showing ive a kid that was born here and that i'm the father the other week, i was given the list of details to bring by a lady in this office the day before.

Anyway i went in there as polite as can be, with my kid and the mother of our baby and asked to extend my visa by 60 days (as im legally allowed to do) and explained the reasons.

After him looking at the paperwork he went into some rant for me to go to BKK to get it done throwing the paperwork to oneside and basically told us <deleted> off in as rude a manner as the mother of my child has ever seen in Thailand ... she's been away from here for 10yrs and was stunned to see such behaviour.

So i went to speak to the lady id seen the day prior, she kindly extended my visa and asked if id like to make a complaint about this w4nker and that he does things like this a lot for no apparant reason .... he was quite clearly a farang hating pr7ck who instead of just getting on with his job prefered to make trouble for foreigners .... so you see even if you are as polite as can be it isnt too difficult to come across farang hating Thais.

Edited July 13, 2010 by hansum

[mugopp]

There is a plane leaving every day. What else is there to say? 

Should have posted this in the section for retards :jap:

[Ulysses G.]

It often seems as if I did.