How To Gain Parental Rights As A Father

[edgarfriendly]

apologies for any unintentional omissions.

 

i cut & pasted what i found.

 

i hope the forms prove useful to someone, i spent far too long asking for them when they were never forthcoming.

 

going to try to legitimize child soon, will report back

[edgarfriendly]

 

district office (the office that issued the childs birth certificate using my passport) required my child to answer questions in thai & write all of our names in thai scrypt.

who is this? khun mae ka

what is her name? answered ok

who is this? khun por ka

what is his name? answered ok

 

now write your name in english and thai. english ok, struggled in thai

now write mums full name in thai - cannot

now write dads full name in thai - cannot

 

district office (the same office that issued the childs birth certificate using my passport) then sent me to consular office, >30km away to translate & notarize my passport... "take not long, mister...bep diaow"

 

PLUS - when you come back, you must bring two witnesses.

 

 

On arrival an hour and a half later, consular staff said i need to go to 'trendy' suk 13 to 'certify the passport' before they can translate it, laughing out loud & mocking district office.  "kao mai roo ruang/kao mai loo luang" Plus theres a 3 day wait/turnaround time! #bep diaow?!

 

i asked 4 times if it wasnt my embassy i needed to go to, no-no-no, chua, you go sukhumwit sip sahm!!

 

a further hour & a half through traffic to trendy (suk13) & a half hour wait, "no, you must go to your embassy"

 

embassy dont accept walk ins, appointments must be made online (3 week waiting list)

 

'sanook dee, tummai farang jai lorn?!"

 

 

 

[Auronbill]

Hi ladies and gents! 

Need some sort of advise.

I just had a child. My embassy (spain) is asking for a Paternity Recognition paper.

Note that:

- We are legally married in Thailand, all documents certified my MFA.

- Wife is not thai.

- Amphur says that I'm already legal father. 

 

So I don't get how I can obtain this certificate that would work with embassy.

 

I dropped them an email but awaiting reply.

 

Thanks for your help!

[Preacher]

On 5/25/2017 at 1:27 PM, Auronbill said:

Hi ladies and gents! 

Need some sort of advise.

I just had a child. My embassy (spain) is asking for a Paternity Recognition paper.

Note that:

- We are legally married in Thailand, all documents certified my MFA.

- Wife is not thai.

- Amphur says that I'm already legal father. 

 

So I don't get how I can obtain this certificate that would work with embassy.

 

I dropped them an email but awaiting reply.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

I am pretty sure you will only have to show that you are married to show the child is your.  The problem is porbably that the Spanish government s unaware of the marriage

[edgarfriendly]

above post is correct as far as i understand.

 

Thai marriage certificate is 'proof' of paternity, even if the child is NOT yours!  (translation and notarization MAY be required)

 

forged birth certificate is also considered legal proof to some extent.

 

unmarried biological father is not legally recognized in Thailand..

 

 

 

Hence my 6 years long mission to 'prove' with 2 'easily corruptible' thai 'witnesses' and our childs acknowledgement (she could easily have been trained to answer 'correctly'..) that I am indeed her father and she can answer this all in thai as well as write her name in thai and english 4 times.

 

absolutely ridiculous process but it is finally completed.

 

writing of mothers & fathers name in english OR thai was completely omitted in the final, successful attempt at the district office.

 

Finally we have the legally stamped COPY of the ALIEN legitimization document in my/our possession.

 

Mucho thanks for any & all input!

 

Best of LUCK to anyone going through it. It is indeed a complete farce!

 

Officially the child must be 7 years old to even attempt all this, but it is possible sooner.

 

Zero bribes requested or offered.

[Binden]

Thankyou mario,great help.One more thing mate,im living in bangkok a long time with my daughter,but she was born in udon thani,where her mum and i registered everything.Can i go to chang wattana with my 10 yr old daughter and her mum.Im still on good terms with her mum.thankyou

[Preacher]

For legitimization you have to go to the district office where the child is registered in the blue book.  So if the child is registered in BKK, you can do it there at the local khet.

[SamHuaHin]

I am seeking some updated advise if possible:

My Son is now 8yo and was born in Australia to a Thai Mother, os has Australian Passport and Birth Cert.
We were not and have never married, and separated 3 years ago. She lives in Australia with a new family, and visits us once a year here in Thailand.
I need to get the Legalisation of Child process done, she is fully on board and agrees, no issue there.

We tried to do it when she was here in January, but the local (Phuket) Amphur said they could not as we needed to have our Son registered as Thai, meaning he  needed to be on a Tabien Ban document. I tried to get this done before she left and had all PP and BirthCert docs translated and certified and send to ChianG Rai where her family was, but by the time it was done she had to leave, and so we could no re-present at the Amphur.

So all I have now is a photocopy of a Tabien Ban with his name on it.
Doing some more research I found that apparently she does not need to be there, as the Amphur will contact her and ask for her agreement, which is needed within 60 days, or 180 days if she is overseas. 

Apparently this is in the THai Legal Code in book 5 under Family and Parents, I dont have the Thai link, but I refer to this text apparently translated from the Thai.

"In case where the child and the mother do not appear before the Registrar for giving the consent, the Registrar shall notify the child and the mother about the application made by the father. If the child or the mother has no objection or does not give the consent within sixty days after receiving of the said notification, it is assumed that the child or the mother does not give the consent. The period of time shall be extended to one hundred and eighty days in case where the child or the mother has been outside of Thailand."

So what I am wanting is to hear form anyone who has done this and knows whats needed.
I am assuming all I need isa certified copies of all our passports and our sons birth certificate, the tabien ban copy, and contact details of his mother in Australia

The official form is this one, so I suppose she needs to sign this also, and have it witnessed in Australia?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/llx3qlwtxlac1zj/Thai Form - Legitimization of Child Father 1.pdf?dl=0

Any help appreciated!

 

[Preacher]

The mother and son will both have to agree to you being the father.  What the amphur will do is contact the mother and child (presumably at the address they are listen on as living to agree, as that is the address they are for all official purposes are residing.

Now you can do two things:

1. Have someone at that address forward the documents to the mother and your son as quickly as possible and see you get it back to the amphur within te required time frame. It maybe that the signatures must be witnessed at a general Thai consulate in Oz. (They act as amphurs for Thais abroad).

 

2. Contact either the Thai foreign ministry, consular department and see what they can do for you all. Maybe they can sent the documents directly to the mother, she signs them at a Thai consulate and sent them to you.

www.consular.go.th

 

[Kenny202]

On 5/2/2011 at 9:30 AM, Mario2008 said:

Number 2 doesn't cost and with your DNA evidence it should not be an issue at the amphur, they can hardly deny with they have approved before. But the child has to be about 7 years old. I would give it a try first.

If the child isn't old enough you will have to go to court. That is costly, but not difficult. Especailly not with your DNA-records. Depending on your local court it takes about 2 to 3 months, with I believe two sessions. (1 is with social services to look into your application).

Shop around for a lawyer to determine the price, no need for a hot shot lawyer. It is very straight foreword.

I went through the courts to legitimize my 2yo son some time ago. Myself and the mother are separated...and we were not married. I have the court declaration no problem, but I am having difficulty getting the mother to come to the amphur to register the document with them to finalize the process. We live in different areas of the country and in any case it is not important to her so she will make no effort. Does the court document alone from the judge stating I am the legal father carry any weight without it being registered at the amphur? For example could I use this to obtain a visa?

 

Is there anyway I can complete this process at the amphur without her help? He is currently registered in her Tabien baan.

[Preacher]

Not being registered at the amphur means that other people can claim they do not know you are the legal father, as the official register still says that the mother has sole custody. 

 

I am not aware that the court document must be presented by both parents at the amphur. I see no logical reason for that. You could ask the court clerk about this.

 

 

[edgarfriendly]

On 8/8/2017 at 8:33 PM, Preacher said:

For legitimization you have to go to the district office where the child is registered in the blue book.  So if the child is registered in BKK, you can do it there at the local khet.

not in our case.

 

child is registered in another province,  yet we legitimized in bkk.

 

bkk officials DID say it would have to be done in registered province,

we DID travel to that province only to be told to go back to bangkok and do it there.

 

lawyer was vocally furious at the lack of any correlation between officials/offices

 

 

 

 

[offset]

3 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

I went through the courts to legitimize my 2yo son some time ago. Myself and the mother are separated...and we were not married. I have the court declaration no problem, but I am having difficulty getting the mother to come to the amphur to register the document with them to finalize the process. We live in different areas of the country and in any case it is not important to her so she will make no effort. Does the court document alone from the judge stating I am the legal father carry any weight without it being registered at the amphur? For example could I use this to obtain a visa?

 

Is there anyway I can complete this process at the amphur without her help? He is currently registered in her Tabien baan.

Have you tried to go to the amphur alone or with your lawyer I did not go to the amphur to finalise the process my lawyer did it for me but different amphurs have different rules

[Kenny202]

On 3/9/2018 at 11:06 AM, offset said:

Have you tried to go to the amphur alone or with your lawyer I did not go to the amphur to finalise the process my lawyer did it for me but different amphurs have different rules

Ain't that the truth re different rules! The Amphur office I am dealing with at best are rude and unhelpful and will expend more energy to get out of doing something than it would take to actually complete the task. They are also a remote Amphur with very little knowledge of what is what and current rules. It is around 300km away from me so I don't want to just turn up pot luck. I may however get my girl to call them Monday and feel them out re requirements. You never know they may be happy to accept the court ruling from me.

 

The ridiculous thing is the mother has to agree before the court before I get the court ruling from the judge so it is ridiculous that she has to also come to the Amphur and agree. But of course TIT 

[Martouf]

Does anyone have an example of what the legitimization certificate looks like it obtained from the amphur office


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[Apiwan2]

When a baby is born, it is clear who the mother is. Who the father is remains the question. If the mother is married the the law will assume that the husband is the father of the child. It doesn't matter who makes the registration.
However, if the mother is not married, the law makes no such assumption and the father being named on the the birth certificate is not enough. After all,anyone can be named on the birth certificate as the father, without that person knowing let alone agreeing. In that case the father has to legitimize the child, with which he acknowledge before the law that he is the father of the child.

The Thai law gives 3 possibilities to become the legal father of a child:

1. When the mother and father marry after the birth of the child, the father becomes automatically the legal father of the child.

2. The father asks to be registered as the legal father at the amphur. For this two criteria has to be met. The first one is that the mother has to agree. The second one is that the child also has to agree. However, the law doesn't give an age at which the child can give consent. Most amphurs will accept the consent of the child when it is at least 7 years old, but some amphurs seem willing to accept the consent of a child when a child is as young as 3 years old.Taking a respected local person with you might increase your chance on registration at an early age.
There might be amphurs that will accept a registration of the father as the legal father when the father and mother appear at the amphur together to register the birth of the child and ask at the same time that the father be registered as the legal father. It is not according to the law.

3. The father petitions the court to become the legal father of the child. This is the only option that can be used when the child is too young or the mother or child don't consent to the legitimization. If the mother does consent, it is a relatively simply process, a longer one if the mother doesn't agree.

Note that becoming the legal father is not the same as gaining parental rights, that is a different subject. You might become the legal father, without getting parental rights. Becoming the legal father means that you establish family ties with the child. That is for example important for a child's nationality and right to inheritance. With establishing parental rights you get authorithy over the child and can for example determine the place where a child stays.

Always check with you embassy how you can legitimize a child under the laws of your own country. in some cases this can even be done before the child is born.


Above applies to a father who wants to become the legal father of a child. It is also possible that a father doesn't want to become the legal father of a child, but the mother or the child do want the father to legitimize the child. In that case a paternity suit can be made against the father and the court will decide if the person is indeed the father of the child. This will establish family ties between the father and the child, which again relates to nationality and inheritance, but also gives the child right to child support.
The child often has more rights regarding this than the mother. Often the mother has a imited period in which to file a paternity suit, while the child has a much longer time to file a paternity suit against the father.


For more information about parental rights and legitimization of a child under Thai law read this article from ThaiLaw Online:
http://thailawonline.com/en/family/children/custody-of-a-child-thailand.html



NOTICE:
This is a revised version as the old topic was incorrect and misleading. It mentions incorrectly that you can legitimize a child by registering the birth of a child yourself at the amphur. The old topic can be found here:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/235443-how-to-gain-parental-rights-as-a-father-when-not-married/

You say that , but ...

I was married and never done any of this, however on divorce attached to the divorce papers is a set of conditions

On mine were ..

1. Kids are in care of the father

My kids have been with me for 6 years now.

Are you saying I'm not the legal father and have no parental rights ?



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[Kenny202]

You say that , but ...

I was married and never done any of this, however on divorce attached to the divorce papers is a set of conditions

On mine were ..

1. Kids are in care of the father

My kids have been with me for 6 years now.

Are you saying I'm not the legal father and have no parental rights ?



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The important thing is that you were married. You are automatically the child's father even if you are not the natural father. You only have to go and legitimize yourself as the father when you are or were not legally married

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[Martouf]

The important thing is that you were married. You are automatically the child's father even if you are not the natural father. You only have to go and legitimize yourself as the father when you are or were not legally married

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I just did it this morning, quite easy - you need two people of standing to confirm, I took two teachers along. 100 baht per child


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[Xaos]

Hi, I got kid and im not married, althought we happy family, I want to gain parental rights cuz it will give me visa 1 year extension, now im on multi O

 

And marrying takes longer, in my case i have to obtain some proofs im not married from embassy etc. translate docs etc. takes ages, I heard going to court and doing parental rights thing is quick and easy.

 

How long does it takes?

 

I am in pattaya, should we go to court in Pattaya ?

 

Thanks

[Xaos]

On 1/10/2011 at 12:54 PM, Mario2008 said:

No, they attest to nothing. It are just signed copies of your passport.

Some amphurs seem to want that, together with a translation of your name in Thai, if they register someone as the father on the birth certificate. But even if you went there yourself, it is not the same as legalizing your child. If not married the birth certificate only certifies that the person registering the birth claims that a child was born from the named mother and has the named father.

This claim is not considered to be a legitimization.

 

I ask again as slow replies :)

 

So my kid is 3, means I got to go through court? 

 

How long is that process?

 

[Preacher]

Yes, if the child is 3 you have to go through court. Duration depends on the location, some =courts are busier than others. But normally 3 to 4 months.

[SpudIslander]

Can anyone help with this question: Which Amphur is the best one to go to based on the following criteria in order for me to be granted the rights of the father in Thailand. 

• Son born in Bangkok
• the mother and I have never been married
• he is 8 years old
• he lives in Phitsanulok with his mother
• I am currently in Chiang Mai until May 5
• he has a Canadian citizenship certificate
• he has a valid Canadian Passport although never used
• I am the father on his birth certificate.
• the mother has married and changed her name which is different from the name on our son's birth certificate
• no name change for our son
• he has a house identification for Phitsanulok

My preference would be Chiang Mai, second would be Bangkok and if I must Phitsanulok. All 3 of us are willing to agree that I am the father.

[Preacher]

My understanding is that you will need to go to the amphur of the place where the child is registered in the tabien baan, so it will be Pi'lok.

 

I presume the mother has married after the birth of the child, if she married before there is a problem.

[FruitPudding]

Wonder if anyone can shed some light on this.

 

Went to the local Amphur with GF and child to do the legalization.

 

I listened to what my GF explained and it seems like she explained exactly what I wanted.

 

Though it should be noted that my GF did NOT feel good about doing it. She expressed suspicion about me "suing her" (her words). She didn't say this at the Amphur while i was there. I told her I want it for a family visa after I stop work.

 

They said, "No problem. Make apointment next week to come back (only mother and village chief, not me or child). We live in a rural setting, about 40km away from major city, so not in the jungle, but not really any other foreigners around either.

 

Anyway, turns out the document is only valid for 3 months and they apparently don't know of any such document valid for longer.

 

I am confused.

 

Did we ask for wrong document?

 

Did my reason of getting a visa screw this up?

 

Could my GF have put a limit on the duration validity of this document?

 

Thanks in advance for any insights.

 

 

 

[Kenny202]

Sounds like a classic Thai cock up where they have added 2 + 2 and got 34. Do not cloud the issue with stuff about visas. You want to legitimize your child as you and your gf are not married. This can not be done temporarily. I'd say they've misunderstood or your gf has been purposely obstructive. It could have just been the amphur office not having a clue and telling u a pack of BS in the hope you will go away. Not many thai father's go and legitimize their children as it can make them liable for support.

Is your child over 7yo?

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[FruitPudding]

7 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

Sounds like a classic Thai cock up where they have added 2 + 2 and got 34. Do not cloud the issue with stuff about visas. You want to legitimize your child as you and your gf are not married. This can not be done temporarily. I'd say they've misunderstood or your gf has been purposely obstructive. It could have just been the amphur office not having a clue and telling u a pack of BS in the hope you will go away. Not many thai father's go and legitimize their children as it can make them liable for support.

Is your child over 7yo?

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6 years old.

 

When she explained what I wanted, they actually chuckled and said the easy way to do this is marriage, so I kinda got the impression they understood I wanted legal rights.

 

They all thought we were going to get married when we walked in there. My GF was so embarrased. Even the security guards outside were making jokes (everyone knows everyone, small place).

[Kenny202]

6 years old.
 
When she explained what I wanted, they actually chuckled and said the easy way to do this is marriage, so I kinda got the impression they understood I wanted legal rights.
 
They all thought we were going to get married when we walked in there. My GF was so embarrased. Even the security guards outside were making jokes (everyone knows everyone, small place).

I got the same reaction re: marriage. Firstly she has to be over 7 to obtain legitimacy in an Amphur. The idea being she is mature enough to point you out and attest you are the father. I'm not sure if it is a law or a guideline. I have heard other guys say their Amphur legitimized a child under 7. Generally though u have to get a lawyer and apply for legitimacy through the courts if the child is under 7. I've just been through the process. You will need your missus on board though to attend interviews etc and you need to show a decent proof of history with ur gf. Otherwise the judge will order a DNA test. Talk to your lawyer...you may be able to get a DNA test and take it to your Amphur. ..skip the court process. Either way I feel ur pain. Total pain in the arse dealing with Amphurs here, even worse in remote areas. I did all the court stuff, got a court order etc and still had a shtfght lodging and recording that at the amphur

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[FruitPudding]

20 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I got the same reaction re: marriage. Firstly she has to be over 7 to obtain legitimacy in an Amphur. The idea being she is mature enough to point you out and attest you are the father. I'm not sure if it is a law or a guideline. I have heard other guys say their Amphur legitimized a child under 7. Generally though u have to get a lawyer and apply for legitimacy through the courts if the child is under 7. I've just been through the process. You will need your missus on board though to attend interviews etc and you need to show a decent proof of history with ur gf. Otherwise the judge will order a DNA test. Talk to your lawyer...you may be able to get a DNA test and take it to your Amphur. ..skip the court process. Either way I feel ur pain. Total pain in the arse dealing with Amphurs here, even worse in remote areas. I did all the court stuff, got a court order etc and still had a shtfght lodging and recording that at the amphur

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Thanks so much for your info. Very helpful.

[Kenny202]

How much should court cost to become the recognised legal father ??
My son was born overseas, we went to the family court to get this document of recognition several years ago.
My daughter was born here and I am on the birth certificate, but i presume as we are not married, that i am not recognised is that correct ??

My court costs were 15k thb. Before that enquired with 4 or 5 other lawyers and lowest was 20k thb. One told us all the local lawyers have a pact where they wont do anything under a fee of 20k thb 5555. Apparently a reletively easy process to lodge the application which others said they have been able to do without a lawyer. We were told not having a lawyer would show disrespect to the judge.

In hindsight though...apart from filling out the application form there is a little bit of mucking around like organising interviews at family services. Actual representation in a non English speaking court. I would recommend getting a lawyer.

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[Kenny202]

My court costs were 15k thb. Before that enquired with 4 or 5 other lawyers and lowest was 20k thb. One told us all the local lawyers have a pact where they wont do anything under a fee of 20k thb 5555. Apparently a reletively easy process to lodge the application which others said they have been able to do without a lawyer. We were told not having a lawyer would show disrespect to the judge.

In hindsight though...apart from filling out the application form there is a little bit of mucking around like organising interviews at family services. Actual representation in a non English speaking court. I would recommend getting a lawyer.

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Going through the court process like anything here is a frustrating headache I could have done without. Dealing with all the people who didn't have a clue and rather than lose face and admit they don't know and go and ask someone. .... better to fob you off and hope you go away.

But having said that it's very doable. You just have to keep your cool and jump through the hoops. Understand there will be frustrations and just deal with them. You will get there. Bit like going to renew ur license. You know you will get it but never expect it to be smooth, allow for the inevitable time wasters and you won't be disappointed.

Re the court process, focus your application on the length of time of u and ur gf history and solid proof. Proof of trips os (visa approvals) etc all show an indesputable history. Photos, anything you have. I was lucky I had my ex gf and her mother come in and swear to our relationship and this carries a lot of weight. Also ur gf can not turn around later and say she lied. I've since had a nasty split with mine. Only way I could get her to do it was dangling the carrot that if I died my son would get nothing. She of course will put 2 and 2 together and realise if your child gets something so may she

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