If religion does not teach love and tolerance then it is false. Jesus would be the last one kicking ass. Religion . . . . what a mess.

Well, i remember a story about Jesus going to the temple and getting angry at the priests who were using religion to enrich themselves.

Imho love and tolerance is fair, but i can't force myself to love liars and hypocrites..

Yet to a degree we are all liars and hypocrites. What then?

Sorry for intruding here, but I mistakenly thought it said

International Burn A Kayo Day.

Now there's an intriguing idea.

Wouldn't be as controversial, though, as I doubt there would be anyone protesting against it.

If religion does not teach love and tolerance then it is false. Jesus would be the last one kicking ass. Religion . . . . what a mess.

Well, i remember a story about Jesus going to the temple and getting angry at the priests who were using religion to enrich themselves.

Imho love and tolerance is fair, but i can't force myself to love liars and hypocrites..

Yet to a degree we are all liars and hypocrites. What then?

Once a month (average) i fight against myself

Sorry for intruding here, but I mistakenly thought it said

International Burn A Kayo Day.

Now there's an intriguing idea.

Wouldn't be as controversial, though, as I doubt there would be anyone protesting against it.

Sort of like Guy Fawkes???

it is quite interesting and amusing how some participants try to justify with utmost lame arguments the action of a "christian" extremist which should be condemned without any ifs or buts.

history shows that it starts with burning books and ends with burning human beings. that applied to the time of the inquisition as well as to the nazi-era.

Does not history claim " appeasement" never works as well ?

The guys interviewed on SKY news this morning on the streets of Cairo, to a man said that the foreign embassies will burn and they will stone foreigners in the streets, if the stupid act is carried out. Now I totally agree that the Pastor is a rabid, lunatic. But the actions of the masses in the muslim world, unless they are more circumspect and basically civilised, will prove his arguments.

And you could say the same thing on the War On Terror reaction, it was totally uncalled for in the same logic you are using.

I totally agree with SBK and Naam.

Today, one of the major headlines said:"Clinton asks the world not to judge 310 million Americans by "aberrational" plan of 50-person church."

She is asking the world to do, what themselves cannot/couldn't do. A majority of Americans do blame the whole 1.5 billion Muslim people for the acts of 19 bastard murderers; nine years ago!

How Hippocratic thing to preach.

I think we should start organizing for a burn-A-Kayo day, we need only 50 bigoted member, 2 liters of whiskey, and what else..?

Sorry for intruding here, but I mistakenly thought it said

International Burn A Kayo Day.

We were thinking about nominating you as the main man on November 5th

Right.. I'm up for it.. but where do I find a Koan..?

totster

Right.. I'm up for it.. but where do I find a Koan..?

totster

You'll have to ask your local Zen Buddhist.

Right.. I'm up for it.. but where do I find a Koan..?

totster

You'll have to ask your local Zen Buddhist.

Indeed.. apparently this is one...

Joshu Washes the Bowl

A monk told Joshu: `I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.'

Joshu asked: `Have you eaten your rice porridge?'

The monk replied: `I have eaten.'

Joshu said: `Then you had better wash your bowl.'

At that moment the monk was enlightened.

Mumon's Comment: Joshu is the man who opens his mouth and shows his heart. I doubt if this monk really saw Joshu's heart. I hope he did not mistake the bell for a pitcher.

It is too clear and so it is hard to see.

A dunce once searched for fire with a lighted lantern.

Had he known what fire was,

He could have cooked his rice much sooner.

totster :jap:

it is quite interesting and amusing how some participants try to justify with utmost lame arguments the action of a "christian" extremist which should be condemned without any ifs or buts.

history shows that it starts with burning books and ends with burning human beings. that applied to the time of the inquisition as well as to the nazi-era.

Does not history claim " appeasement" never works as well ?

The guys interviewed on SKY news this morning on the streets of Cairo, to a man said that the foreign embassies will burn and they will stone foreigners in the streets, if the stupid act is carried out. Now I totally agree that the Pastor is a rabid, lunatic. But the actions of the masses in the muslim world, unless they are more circumspect and basically civilised, will prove his arguments.

Edited to add: Before someone says " If the Americans would withdraw from the middle east, all this would stop ". No it wouldn't, far from it. America is the defender of Israel as well as the only country in the world able to put a check on them. Iran would run rampant in Iraq, before turning on the Jewish State, with Syria and lord knows who else, without the yanks in theatre. As a check, the Yanks keep Israel from using their full arsenal against their foes on a first strike bases, knowing that if the Yanks weren't around, their enemies would be coming. Perhaps ( more than perhaps, but that's a whole new thread ) they shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place, but they did, and now their stuck, and so is the rest of the world.

And you could say the same thing on the War On Terror reaction, it was totally uncalled for in the same logic you are using.

I agree. The war on terror was first a knee jerk reaction ( a jerk, jerking ) to finish what daddy started. However your next point about 19 murderers, I do not quite agree. Not being a US citizen I can only guess, but I think you'll find the ever mounting death toll of American servicemen and the constant flag burning and threats of murder against them across the muslim world may have an impact on current feelings.

Right.. I'm up for it.. but where do I find a Koan..?

totster

You'll have to ask your local Zen Buddhist.

Indeed.. apparently this is one...

Joshu Washes the Bowl

A monk told Joshu: `I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.'

Joshu asked: `Have you eaten your rice porridge?'

The monk replied: `I have eaten.'

Joshu said: `Then you had better wash your bowl.'

At that moment the monk was enlightened.

Mumon's Comment: Joshu is the man who opens his mouth and shows his heart. I doubt if this monk really saw Joshu's heart. I hope he did not mistake the bell for a pitcher.

It is too clear and so it is hard to see.

A dunce once searched for fire with a lighted lantern.

Had he known what fire was,

He could have cooked his rice much sooner.

totster :jap:

I'll have some of whatever you're smoking

Fully agree, should Jesus come back he would be very busy kicking asses !

And the Christians would turn the other cheek.

its been called off

Bit premature for that call mate. The beloved Pastor is finding out the naughty Iman may well have told him porkies..........

From today's Telegraph:

9/11 Koran burning: pastor backs down after 'Ground Zero mosque deal'

The pastor of a small church in Florida that planned to burn copies of the Koran on September 11 has called off the event after worldwide condemnation and warnings of a deadly Islamic backlash.

By Alex Spillius in Washington and Toby Harnden in Gainesville

Published: 12:28AM BST 10 Sep 2010

Pastor Terry Jones, from the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, Florida, said he had cancelled the event after allegedly receiving assurance that the planned Islamic centre and mosque near Ground Zero, the site of the attacks, in New York, would be relocated. He added that he planned to fly to New York on Saturday to meet the imam planning to build the mosque.

Earlier, Mr Jones had been telephoned by Robert Gates, the US Defence Secretary, who asked him to reconsider his plans to burn Korans on Saturday, the ninth anniversary of the September 11th attacks, because it could have endangered the lives of American troops. Mr Jones had said he would reconsider his plans if he received a call from the White House or the Pentagon.

Standing beside Imam Muhammad Musri, president of the Islamic Society of Central Florida, the Rev Jones said he had received assurances that the mosque planned near the Ground Zero site would be built elsewhere.

“I have his word that he will move the mosque,” Mr Jones said, referring to Imam Musri.

“We are now against any other group burning Korans. We would right now ask no one to burn Korans. We are absolutely strong on that. It is not the time to do it,” he said. But Imam Musri played down the claims, saying: “We do not have a commitment as of now to move [the Ground Zero mosque]. We have a commitment to meet.”

Mr Jones’ comments were contradicted altogether when Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the man behind the controversial mosque, issued a statement saying there had been no negotiations of the sort.

Imam Musri and Mr Jones said they would meet Imam Rauf on Saturday. Mr Jones, who said he was close to tears, called the supposed agreement a “sign from God”. He said he had “no regrets” about deciding to burn the korans but was glad the situation had been resolved.

Mr Jones later said he would be “very, very disappointed” if the mosque was not moved, insisting that Imam Musri had told him four times that the New York leaders promised to move it.

Imam Musri said: “We are committed to resolving the situation here [in Florida] and there [in New York]. I want to thank Pastor Jones for his courage and willingness to take into consideration the safety of our troops across the world and the safety of all Americans travelling and doing business abroad.” The planned book burning has provoked criticism from both the US government and the international community.

President Barack Obama had warned that the plans served as a “recruitment bonanza for al-Qaeda”, and were “completely contrary to our values”. Burning the Koran could provoke a wave of terrorist attacks on the West.

In a televised interview, Mr Obama said: “This could increase the recruitment of individuals who’d be willing to blow themselves up in American cities, or European cities. You know, you could have serious violence in places like Pakistan or Afghanistan. This is a recruitment bonanza for al-Qaeda. As a very practical matter, as commander in chief of the armed forces of the United States, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women in uniform who are in Iraq, who are in Afghanistan.”

Interpol said the burning would probably provoke terrorist attacks. Ronald Noble, the global police agency’s secretary-general, said: “Although there are currently no specific details as to what form of terror attacks would follow, what is clear is – if the Koran burning goes ahead – there will be tragic consequences.”

A confidential FBI report said that police should be prepared for revenge attacks in the United States. Earlier yesterday, the State Department warned any Americans travelling overseas to be prepared for anti-US demonstrations.

World leaders had encouraged Mr Obama to intervene. Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani president, condemned the plan as “despicable”. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, the president of Indonesia, the world’s most populous Muslim nation, said it would damage attempts to reconcile Muslims and the West.

Protesters in Pakistan, burned the Stars and Stripes, chanted “Down with America” and marched with banners carrying English language slogans such as “If Koran is burned, it would be beginning of destruction of America”.

Protesters also marched in Afghanistan’s Kapisa province. Nouri al-Maliki, Iraq’s prime minister, said the burning “might be taken as a pretext by the extremists to carry out more killings”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7993319/911-Koran-burning-pastor-backs-down-after-Ground-Zero-mosque-deal.html

And he seems to have got all the publicity he wanted, led a movement against the GZ Mosque and now comes out against book-burning.

What more could one ask for?

Right.. I'm up for it.. but where do I find a Koan..?

totster

I'm known for typos in my topic titles but I swear it originally read "Koran". I think the powers that be changed it to avoid detection and the targeting of their secret headquarters.

I totally agree with SBK and Naam.

Today, one of the major headlines said:"Clinton asks the world not to judge 310 million Americans by "aberrational" plan of 50-person church."

She is asking the world to do, what themselves cannot/couldn't do. A majority of Americans do blame the whole 1.5 billion Muslim people for the acts of 19 bastard murderers; nine years ago!

How Hippocratic thing to preach.

Not at all.

There is a big difference between 50 people in one tiny place versus tens of thousands spread out across the world. A lot more than 19 were involved in the planning and training of 9/11. In addition, 9/11 wasn't the only act by Islamic Extremist nut jobs. There have been thousands over the past 20-30 years in many countries across the world.

The plan to burn a Koran by 50 "Christian" nuts is being widely condemned by other Christians while nary a peep is heard from Muslims about atrocities committed by their army of extremists.

I don't recall hearing outrage from ANY officials when this Holy book burning took place. I presume Obama approved the action.

______________________________________________________

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan

May 22, 2009 -- Updated 0624 GMT (1424 HKT)

(CNN) -- Military personnel threw away, and ultimately burned, confiscated Bibles that were printed in the two most common Afghan languages amid concern they would be used to try to convert Afghans, a Defense Department spokesman said Tuesday.

The unsolicited Bibles sent by a church in the United States were confiscated about a year ago at Bagram Air Base in Afghanistan because military rules forbid troops of any religion from proselytizing while deployed there, Lt. Col. Mark Wright said.

Such religious outreach can endanger American troops and civilians in the devoutly Muslim nation, Wright said.

"The decision was made that it was a 'force protection' measure to throw them away, because, if they did get out, it could be perceived by Afghans that the U.S. government or the U.S. military was trying to convert Muslims," Wright told CNN on Tuesday.

Troops at posts in war zones are required to burn their trash, Wright said.

The Bibles were written in the languages Pashto and Dari.

This decision came to light recently, after the Al Jazeera English network aired video of a group prayer service and chapel sermon that a reporter said suggested U.S. troops were being encouraged to spread Christianity.

The military denied that earlier this month, saying much in the video was taken out of context.

"This was irresponsible and dangerous journalism sensationalizing year-old footage of a religious service for U.S. soldiers on a U.S. base and inferring that troops are evangelizing to Afghans," Col. Gregory Julian said.

The military says a soldier at Bagram received the Bibles and didn't realize he wasn't allowed to hand them out. In the Al Jazeera video, which shows the Bibles at the prayer service, an unnamed soldier says members of his church raised money for them.

The chaplain later corrected the soldier and confiscated the Bibles, Wright said.

Military officers considered sending the Bibles back to the church, he said, but they worried the church would turn around and send them to another organization in Afghanistan -- giving the impression that they had been distributed by the U.S. government.

That could lead to violence against troops or U.S. civilians, Wright said.

Al Jazeera English, a Qatar-based international news service, said its reporters tried to get a response from military officials for its story but were unable to do so.

The U.S. military air base at Bagram is home to thousands of troops from all branches of the U.S. military. The vast majority of the troops do not leave the base and are in various support roles for U.S. troops across Afghanistan.

CNN's Mike Mount at the Pentagon contributed to this report.

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/05/20/us.military.bibles.burned/index.html

two wrongs dont' make a right. period. and if you are going to claim to follow the teachings of Christ then you don't hate monger.

two wrongs dont' make a right. period. and if you are going to claim to follow the teachings of Christ then you don't hate monger.

Absolutely correct.

But what gets my goat, is that people jump on the band wagon and condemn " the second wrong" albeit quite rightly, when they remain strangely silent over the "first ( of which there has been many ).

In reality is this not a totally racist position? People seem to forgive the one group unprintable horrors, but expect a far higher standard from another group ! ......Why ? Are muslims forgiven because they are poor raggedy muslims, and christians are not, because they are predominantly white and should know better ?

This man is a lunatic and deserves contempt. However, I await the next muslim atrocity ( and yes, we all know there's one coming ) with interest, to see if it receives the same level of condemnation.

I don't see Islam preaching love thy neighbor. eye for an eye seems more their style and if we are going to judge people by practicng what they preach, the muslims do alright

I don't see Islam preaching love thy neighbor. eye for an eye seems more their style and if we are going to judge people by practicng what they preach, the muslims do alright

But does that make them right, or just slightly less hypocritical ?

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/world-breathes-easy-as-sad-little-man-decides-he's-had-enough-attention-201009103078/

Ultimately, who cares what Jones does or what the Muslim's reaction would be if he had proceeded? Does it matter as long as *you* understand that hate is destructive and love is constructive and choose what is best for *you*? Isn't this just another incident amongst uncountable, another story illustrating that some people (and a lot of people in this particular drama) simply don't understand what love and hate are, or what the repercussions of each is, and are choosing and learning for themselves in their own way?

Ultimately, who cares what Jones does or what the Muslim's reaction would be if he had proceeded? Does it matter as long as *you* understand that hate is destructive and love is constructive and choose what is best for *you*? Isn't this just another incident amongst uncountable, another story illustrating that some people (and a lot of people in this particular drama) simply don't understand what love and hate are, or what the repercussions of each is, and are choosing and learning for themselves in their own way?

Best post yet...............

two wrongs dont' make a right. period. and if you are going to claim to follow the teachings of Christ then you don't hate monger.

Absolutely correct.

But what gets my goat, is that people jump on the band wagon and condemn " the second wrong" albeit quite rightly, when they remain strangely silent over the "first ( of which there has been many ).

In reality is this not a totally racist position? People seem to forgive the one group unprintable horrors, but expect a far higher standard from another group ! ......Why ? Are muslims forgiven because they are poor raggedy muslims, and christians are not, because they are predominantly white and should know better ?

Everyone here knows the truth about all this. It has NOTHING to do with right or wrong, Christian values or not. It is only about that fact that Muslims will get violent and kill people if they feel slighted and Christians won't. So burn all the Bibles you want, make fun of Jesus Christ all you want because NOTHING will happen to you. If some brave, cutting edge artist displayed a likeness of the Prophet Mohammed upside down in a jar of urine ala Maplethorpe how long do you think he would survive? Remember that fashion designer who used verses from the Koran written in Arabic on his clothes and stopped as soon as they threatened his life? This is all about people being scared sh*tless.

I don't recall hearing outrage from ANY officials when this Holy book burning took place. I presume Obama approved the action.

______________________________________________________

Military burns unsolicited Bibles sent to Afghanistan...

Does the President have to personally approve every action taken by the military?

It is only about that fact that Muslims will get violent and kill people if they feel slighted and Christians won't.

Irony, crickey if only we could understand it.

Ultimately, who cares what Jones does or what the Muslim's reaction would be if he had proceeded? Does it matter as long as *you* understand that hate is destructive and love is constructive and choose what is best for *you*? Isn't this just another incident amongst uncountable, another story illustrating that some people (and a lot of people in this particular drama) simply don't understand what love and hate are, or what the repercussions of each is, and are choosing and learning for themselves in their own way?

I understand it is not the principle, he has every right to his protest, but the consequences.

His action will have specific counter reaction and that will have cause to care for an awful lot of people and their famillies around the World.

Understanding love and hate is a bystander here, it will mean nothing when the reaction inevitably hits.

From what I understand, it is a protest against the Mosque being built in NY, so he has decided the reaction is worth it, many dead already, during the event and after, so lets propagate the disaster and let others suffer for your own propagandor.

let me chip in with one of my valid reasons why a Qr'an should be burned in Gainesville. during Ramadan 1979 (venue Jeddah) negotiations for a contract valued at ~220 million US-Dollars were in their final stage, all of us were exhausted, some of the Saudis took frequent breaks to drink (secretly) water and i took two breaks to go to the toilet, light each time two cigarettes and drawing at them like a madman.

forcing me to resort to these kind of pervert actions justifies any action of the good Pastor Terry Jones!