Bangkok Hospital Discharged Severely Ill Patients After UAE Government Refuses To Pay The Bills

[PTYstefan]

When his money came through, he paid the hospital on condition they returned his passport, and skipped town owing for bike repairs and room. Got one of the best laughs of my life when the bungalow guy asked me to pay his bill.

It was good for him to get away with the motorbike repairs payments, but I think you would not be laughing when the bungalow guy went to the police and made a statement that the young brit is your friend and he has run without paying his bills and you have to pay him instead. Your cards would'nt be that good when that happens.

[OzMick]

When his money came through, he paid the hospital on condition they returned his passport, and skipped town owing for bike repairs and room. Got one of the best laughs of my life when the bungalow guy asked me to pay his bill.

It was good for him to get away with the motorbike repairs payments, but I think you would not be laughing when the bungalow guy went to the police and made a statement that the young brit is your friend and he has run without paying his bills and you have to pay him instead. Your cards would'nt be that good when that happens.

Tried that crap. I told police that Brit was an aquaintance of a friend, 30 years age difference, different nationality, no connection. Even in Thailand, you can't be forced to pay your brother's bill, let alone a stranger's.

[Payboy]

they even have a price difference in insured and uninsured patients, for example (a CT scan) uninsured price 12,000.- baht / insured price 17,500.- baht.

This scam is practised in all Thai hospitals where they first ask for your insurance card, make copies and then bill you exactly to your limit or just slightly over that limit.

[Portlandstone]

Classic Thai hospitality. Who knows, maybe the true word on Thailand will spread internationally.

I went to another "renowned" hospital in Bangkok, never to again. No it wasn't BMC as discussed in the article but was Bamrungrad International Hospital just up the street from Sukhumvit 5 / Nana area. I went to two different sections (eye care, and skin analysis), absolute mickey mouse low grade, lip service just say anything and get you out of here, and "oh yeah that will be 1100 baht you can pay on the third floor" complete rip off. I wasted over 2000 baht that day, all for analysis that was completely worthless.

[asiawatcher]

Last time I was there (Phuket Bangkok Hospital, about three years ago) I asked the cashier for an explanation of the "Hospital Fee 200 Baht". The only reply I got "Sorry, no understand" and when I asked for the clarification in Thai she just grabbed my money and said nothing at all. Never again

Wondering why you're waisting your time because of 200 baht. Sorry, no understand. :jap:

Wow 200 Baht - and someone questioned that? Try any doctor, out patient or hospital in the West - USD6+ ???

[MAJIC]

The UAE Embassy source said: "After we found out that the BMC has been overcharging our patients in the past three years, we employed a consultancy firm to revise the hospital bills thoroughly, who again confirmed that the hospital bills were inaccurate and exaggerated".

So tell us something Expats didn't know already.

The fatal crime to commit in Thailand is to run out of money, or refuse to pay exorbitant charges!

[MAJIC]

"Bangkok Hospital Discharged Severely Ill Patients After UAE Government Refuses To Pay The Bills". To get back at the Saudi who interfere with police promotion? Maybe, maybe not.

IMO there is no connection,only Greed.

[chainarong]

Insensitive actions by the hospital , just go's to show, the almighty dollar rules the brain or in this case the BHT.

[rubl]

Without knowing all details, I can only say that the TAT goal of promoting Thailand as medical hub might go down the drain

[Bagwan]

The cost of extracting a tooth at a dentist clinic on Thepprasit Road was 500 baht. At BPH the bill was 1850 baht including 300 baht for special equipment. Solid gold pliers? 

Ever wonder who pays for the ubiquitous plasma TV screens scattered around BPH? YOU do! 

In conversation with a senior nurse at Laem Chebang hospital she told me that she left the employ of BPH since she was sickened by what went on there. She specifically mentioned gouging and the incompetence of the junior doctors.

[tomyummer]

To play devil's advocate, surely these patients and Emirate gov't knew the costs as these patients had been there for a while. Why didn't they just move the patients a while ago when the bills started piling up. It's a bit late after 3 years to complain about billing procedures.

On the contrary, the medical industry is one where the consumers/patients are really at the hands of the hospitals. It's not like you can just pick up and leave. Negotiations and investigations must go on even as your patient is in the bed. Apparently the UAE and other GCC countries have been clearing their bills, but after a while they got suspicious of errant costs and turned it over to a professional medical arbitrating company in Bangkok where they found discrepancies in their bills. These middle eastern countries are known locally to pay slow, but eventually do. This particular bill seems low. I've known it to be as high as 300 mb or more.

[tomyummer]

I seem to always post this way too much on ThaiVisa.com, but...."yet another black eye for this country".

[moe666]

Classic Thai hospitality. Who knows, maybe the true word on Thailand will spread internationally.

I went to another "renowned" hospital in Bangkok, never to again. No it wasn't BMC as discussed in the article but was Bamrungrad International Hospital just up the street from Sukhumvit 5 / Nana area. I went to two different sections (eye care, and skin analysis), absolute mickey mouse low grade, lip service just say anything and get you out of here, and "oh yeah that will be 1100 baht you can pay on the third floor" complete rip off. I wasted over 2000 baht that day, all for analysis that was completely worthless.

Sounds like you went to wrong hospital Bumrungrad is between soi 1 and 3.

[moe666]

Classic Thai hospitality. Who knows, maybe the true word on Thailand will spread internationally.

I went to another "renowned" hospital in Bangkok, never to again. No it wasn't BMC as discussed in the article but was Bamrungrad International Hospital just up the street from Sukhumvit 5 / Nana area. I went to two different sections (eye care, and skin analysis), absolute mickey mouse low grade, lip service just say anything and get you out of here, and "oh yeah that will be 1100 baht you can pay on the third floor" complete rip off. I wasted over 2000 baht that day, all for analysis that was completely worthless.

Sounds like you went to wrong hospital Bumrungrad is between soi 1 and 3.

[tomyummer]

"Bangkok Hospital Discharged Severely Ill Patients After UAE Government Refuses To Pay The Bills". To get back at the Saudi who interfere with police promotion? Maybe, maybe not.

IMO there is no connection,only Greed.

Different countries, different circumstances.

Saudi Arabia: 20 years fighting in Thailand

U.A.E.: 3 years or so

Same war, different battle.

Edited September 11, 2010 by tomyummer

[animatic]

Hmmm.. This is the same hospital that charged my wife around 1000 baht for a 150 baht bottle of pills that had a Bangkok Hospital sticker placed over the original products label to make it look like it was something other than generic stock from superdrug.

This is also the hospital that asks you to sign a waver when you undergo any medical treatment which indemnifies the hospital, staff and doctors from any legal action in future, even if their actions are criminal.

I know who I believe in this story.

Not surprised, this is a money making operation and a health care facility.

Your guess which is the primary job.

They just tried to get me to sign a waiver yesterday,

when I have been in there for 5 years from time to time.

I refused, and got the visit anyway.

[rubl]

The draft bill on Medical Malpractice Victim Protection is not sailing through yet. The Medical Council was totally against, and later conditionally for. Most conditions to their benefit (of course ? ) .

20th August: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/20/national/Doctors-to-support-bill-with-conditions-30136206.html

27th August: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/27/national/Doctors-federation-wants-nofault-fund-to-cover-two-30136715.html

5th Sept.: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/09/05/opinion/Champion-of-the-consumer-cause-30137287.html

[ukrules]

Samitivej don't seem overpriced to me. Modern facility, great specialists.

[tomyummer]

Samitivej don't seem overpriced to me. Modern facility, great specialists.

I've heard that Samitivej, Sukumvit is a great hospital. Very much more of the neighborhood/community health provider. Very much favored by the Japanese. Samitivej, Srinakarin is a children's hospital with a very good standing.

[Dakhar]

Don't get too outraged about this happening in Thailand because charging foreign patients elevated rates is almost universal in most countries including the USA, UK, and Europe.

I come from Boston in the US where the hospital business is a major industry: Massachusetts General Hosp., Brigham and Women's Hosp., Lahey Clinic and Dana Farber Cancer Center; just to name a few of the major players.

Before 9/11, Patients subsidized by Middle Eastern Governments such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait provided the largest segment of these hospitals yearly income.

It was well known in the industry that these governments were charged "enhanced" rates for virtually every aspect of treatment, rates far above what domestic insurance providers paid for the same services.

The extent of all this became evident after 9/11 when visas became much more difficult for Middle Eastern patients to receive. The hospitals suddenly found themselves with 40%++ income shortfalls resulting in a lot of consolidations and mergers. Many of those patients now come to Thailand and India.

Hospitals in Great Britain and Europe had the same problem.

I work in the health care industry, and I am an allied health care provider. From what I saw, if you were over 65yrs old, and a non US national, your fees would be the same as "Medicare Rates" which is around 60-80% off of what the the regular fee is. I worked along the US/Mexican border and we say MANY Mexican Nationals making the best of this policy.

[Dakhar]

Last time I was there (Phuket Bangkok Hospital, about three years ago) I asked the cashier for an explanation of the "Hospital Fee 200 Baht". The only reply I got "Sorry, no understand" and when I asked for the clarification in Thai she just grabbed my money and said nothing at all. Never again

Wondering why you're waisting your time because of 200 baht. Sorry, no understand. :jap:

Wow 200 Baht - and someone questioned that? Try any doctor, out patient or hospital in the West - USD6+ ???

In relative terms, 200 Baht is like nearly an Americans idea of 100 USD. Fifty baht for a cotton ball is like 25 USD in relative terms. I would say in relative terms this is an exhorbitant fee structure. If you want to charge American rates, or in relative terms American rates, you darn sure better deliver quality.

I know a girlt that got LasiK done in Thailand. The fee was 70,000 Baht, essentially the same as USA prices, but the service and follow up care is "top notch." She may have paid way tooooo much in relative terms, but at least she got value out her money.

[TAWP]

Without knowing all details, I can only say that the TAT goal of promoting Thailand as medical hub might go down the drain

Indeed...

[kuffki]

I do not think its the matter of over charging, its rather the matter of being expensive.

Some of my personal experiences

After having a bike accident, i was charged 2900 per clean and bandage change, while it was 700 at other hospitals

I had a shoulder surgery which cost me in total approx 470 000 baht. Same surgery at other hospital would of cost 120 000 baht. Mind you same surgery back in the West, in Oz would of cost 350 000 baht.

What i found most annoying was the doctors fees. Visit to shoulder surgeon was 900 baht , while visit to physio therapy doctor was 2500 baht.

Also every single visit they charge nursing fee, yet most of the time there was no nurse and i was not checked prior for blood pressure or anything else.

[wintermute]

In relative terms, 200 Baht is like nearly an Americans idea of 100 USD. Fifty baht for a cotton ball is like 25 USD in relative terms. I would say in relative terms this is an exhorbitant fee structure. If you want to charge American rates, or in relative terms American rates, you darn sure better deliver quality.

Haha what? You might want to brush up on your economics there, because in "relative terms" you are 100% wrong.

There are some things like standard medical service quality and costs that are pretty standard.

Also if you can't afford to pony up 200 baht for a medical visit you are skint and should probably borrow some money from your relatives for a plane ticket home.

[rubl]

On a lighter tone

[jfchandler]

I think it's a bad move on the part of the hospital, but equally so, the article makes little mention of what happened to the patients after they were "evicted" from the hospital...

More broadly, as non-Thais, of course they were being over-charged, as in, charged more than Thais would be charged for the same treatment/care. I think pretty much every private hospital in BKK has a double standard pricing policy for Thais vs. farangs.

The only question is my mind is, how much were they being overcharged.... the normal rate of overcharge for non-Thais, or even more than the farang rate, maybe because somebody thought the UAE folks have more money than the typical westerner...

That's one detail I've yet to be able to figure yet... Is there just a two-tier pricing policy among the private hospitals for non-Thais, or there are multiple pricing tiers for non-Thais.... as in Americans and Brits pay one scale, Japanese and Taiwanese pay another scale, Middle Easterners pay another scale, etc etc...

And Aussies they don't let in at all... (just kidding!) :jap:

[souvenirdeparis]

That's 168 Million Baht which averages to nearly 17 Million Baht per patient

%%

one shot of chemotherapy or Hepatitis therapy can easily be 1000 euros in Europe . For hepatitis C : one shot a week for a year .

[Buchholz]

EDITORIAL

Gulf News (UAE) - September 12, 2010

Expelling patients is not the solution

Bangkok Medical Centre has to find other ways of resolving dispute with the UAE

The Bangkok Medical Centre (BMC) in Thailand receives more than 10,000 Emirati patients a year. The fees are usually settled by individual patients or are covered by authorities such as the armed forces, Health Authority Abu Dhabi, Dubai Health Authority or the UAE Embassy. Sadly, though, the long-standing relationship between Emiratis and the BMC reached breaking point last week when the hospital expelled 10 patients in a dispute over unpaid bills.

At the centre of the row is a claim by the UAE Embassy that BMC is overcharging patients for services compared to other similar medical centres in Bangkok. The dispute has been simmering for several months. The action by BMC, however, is high-handed and unnecessary. The welfare of cancer and elderly patients is paramount. BMC needs to find alternative methods to resolve its dispute with UAE authorities, sooner, not later.

Continues:

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/editorials/expelling-patients-is-not-the-solution-1.680562

[Thai at Heart]

EDITORIAL

Gulf News (UAE) - September 12, 2010

Expelling patients is not the solution

Bangkok Medical Centre has to find other ways of resolving dispute with the UAE

The Bangkok Medical Centre (BMC) in Thailand receives more than 10,000 Emirati patients a year. The fees are usually settled by individual patients or are covered by authorities such as the armed forces, Health Authority Abu Dhabi, Dubai Health Authority or the UAE Embassy. Sadly, though, the long-standing relationship between Emiratis and the BMC reached breaking point last week when the hospital expelled 10 patients in a dispute over unpaid bills.

At the centre of the row is a claim by the UAE Embassy that BMC is overcharging patients for services compared to other similar medical centres in Bangkok. The dispute has been simmering for several months. The action by BMC, however, is high-handed and unnecessary. The welfare of cancer and elderly patients is paramount. BMC needs to find alternative methods to resolve its dispute with UAE authorities, sooner, not later.

Continues:

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/editorials/expelling-patients-is-not-the-solution-1.680562

Seems like that this will probably mean 10,000 less high paying customers next year.

Something doesn't add up in this situation. Why would the hospital put at risk losing such a massive amount of business?

[tomyummer]

EDITORIAL

Gulf News (UAE) - September 12, 2010

Expelling patients is not the solution

Bangkok Medical Centre has to find other ways of resolving dispute with the UAE

The Bangkok Medical Centre (BMC) in Thailand receives more than 10,000 Emirati patients a year. The fees are usually settled by individual patients or are covered by authorities such as the armed forces, Health Authority Abu Dhabi, Dubai Health Authority or the UAE Embassy. Sadly, though, the long-standing relationship between Emiratis and the BMC reached breaking point last week when the hospital expelled 10 patients in a dispute over unpaid bills.

At the centre of the row is a claim by the UAE Embassy that BMC is overcharging patients for services compared to other similar medical centres in Bangkok. The dispute has been simmering for several months. The action by BMC, however, is high-handed and unnecessary. The welfare of cancer and elderly patients is paramount. BMC needs to find alternative methods to resolve its dispute with UAE authorities, sooner, not later.

Continues:

http://gulfnews.com/opinions/editorials/expelling-patients-is-not-the-solution-1.680562

Seems like that this will probably mean 10,000 less high paying customers next year.

Something doesn't add up in this situation. Why would the hospital put at risk losing such a massive amount of business?

They were trying to get the UAE Embassy into a corner. Months had gone by without resolve and the hospital took it upon themselves to 'make a move'. A very, very wrong one indeed. I'd be curious to know who sent the letter from the patient that was published, the hospital or embassy? They also sent a copy of the total invoice (with all UAE outstanding debt) to each patient, which seems to me to be against ethics. That's like the hospital giving a patient a copy of their insurer's bills which are not related to that patient. Private company information, no?

The UAE's beef is not about comparing with other private hospitals, it's the fact that the overcharging is due to unexplained items or procedures performed on the invoices. That's where the discrepancies lie, and the hospital's unwillingness to address them. This is how private hospitals screw you. They know that patients are normally not the scientists or medically educated as the doctors are, so you would not bother or dare to contest the treatments.

What the embassy might do as one of the founders of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC), is to get other member states to officially cut off ties with the hospital, who like other private hospitals such as Bumrungrad, has banked on this Middle East market for some time.

This is also going to have huge repercussions with the TAT as they have been trying to promote Thailand as a medical hub for some time now. Big black eye. And they deserve it.

This is going to get even juicier in the coming months as this thing rolls out.

Edited September 11, 2010 by tomyummer