September 20, 201015 yr There is a thread in General that reads a lot like the historical events of the Alamo, if you use your imagination of course. The Mexicans, otherwise known as Trolls are fighting amongst themselves, throwing all sorts of facts and figures (bombs & bullets) at each other with no proper justification or link. Finally, along comes the Texican and starts shooting at the Mexicans, but they still keep coming, he keeps shooting, but they still keep coming, sometimes one stays dead. Will he be overwhelmed or will Houston arrive with reinforcements to aid his escape and give a new ending to the old story?
September 20, 201015 yr Is this Marky and his grasp or lack of grasp of Thai history ? If it is, he fought his little bit of the fort rather well.
September 20, 201015 yr When Ian is the voice of reason it's time for everyone to calm down a bit. :lol:
September 20, 201015 yr Author Is this Marky and his grasp or lack of grasp of Thai history ? If it is, he fought his little bit of the fort rather well. Do you think so? I have to be honest I only skimmed the last few pages, but it was the usual suspects, spouting the same old rhethoric. I kinda thought it was all prose and bait with little substance, no links, not even poor ones, just supposed self experience in certain areas of Thailand. Crickey, even I can get laid every night in certain areas of Bangkok and I am a quiet, innocent Irish Catholic boy, but then the Christian Brothers did give me some experience, if not satisfaction. I mean, a turnover of 200,000 girls each and every year, it just aint likely. Give me some solid debate and concrete research, or all you have left is personal experience, hyperbole, misadventure and nonsense. That is my personal stand point and not a link in sight either.
September 20, 201015 yr Author When Ian is the voice of reason it's time for everyone to calm down a bit. Don't go and encourage him, or he'll be posting pictures next and you know how much we look forward to that, almost as much as his posting style.
September 20, 201015 yr Crickey, even I can get laid every night in certain areas of Bangkok and I am a quiet, innocent Irish Catholic boy, but then the Christian Brothers did give me some experience, if not satisfaction. Well, that explains a lot of things about your posts, considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined.
September 21, 201015 yr Crickey, even I can get laid every night in certain areas of Bangkok and I am a quiet, innocent Irish Catholic boy, but then the Christian Brothers did give me some experience, if not satisfaction. Well, that explains a lot of things about your posts, considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined.
September 21, 201015 yr Author Well, that explains a lot of things about your posts, considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined. Link please
September 21, 201015 yr Author Don't worry Mooners, I am getting used to serious personal abuse over the past few days, I am thinking of asking Mod protection, but then again I think I will just get stuck in.
September 21, 201015 yr Author considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined. OK Ian, by your own admission you are the 'Master Debater', and no links being proferred, lets discuss personal view points regarding the Catholic Church and its destructive nature toward other countries and people, over and above all others combined. I await with baited breath.........................
September 21, 201015 yr This is almost as bad as my guns n roses thread. But still enjoying the Tourettes one.
September 22, 201015 yr considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined. OK Ian, by your own admission you are the 'Master Debater', and no links being proferred, lets discuss personal view points regarding the Catholic Church and its destructive nature toward other countries and people, over and above all others combined. I await with baited breath......................... I don't play silly games with people who obviously don't like me. it's not worth my time.
September 22, 201015 yr I must agree about the catholic church. So much poverty in sth Americas, Philippines as well as in Europe. Basically by making contraception a BIG NO NO.
September 22, 201015 yr Gents remember what your Momma used to say about religion and politics ? If mine would be alive today she would say " If you want to talk about such things go to OTB with the rest of the wanke_rs " Straight forward woman my Mom.
September 22, 201015 yr considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined. OK Ian, by your own admission you are the 'Master Debater', and no links being proferred, lets discuss personal view points regarding the Catholic Church and its destructive nature toward other countries and people, over and above all others combined. I await with baited breath......................... Its nor really hard to bash religion. It is usually used to gain power over people and encourages people not to think for them selves. Then look at all the child molesting going on in the curch (loads of it coming out in Belgium Holland and other countries) The church covering it up loads of times instead of acting on it. The pope making veiled accusations that atheism is leads to Nazism Look the church doing what they do best bending over to stay in power so don't say the church is innocent or good. They are addicted to power and will do anything to stay in it. Just look at the popes views on condoms and how many people die because of it (granted they are also for only sex in marriage but then again do we need more people on this planet) Sorry for this but I just cant stand it when people proclaim the church as being good. Im not attacking anyone im just stating an oppinion.
September 22, 201015 yr I think that Moss was looking to expose Ian's complete ignorance on a subject that he decided to bring up himself, rather than look for an actual discussion on it. Regardless: The pope making veiled accusations that atheism is leads to Nazism Did he really do that? I don't actually know either way myself but if he did, then El Poperooney has shot himself in the foot there because Hitler was baptised a Catholic and raised a Catholic. Hmmmm.
September 22, 201015 yr Author considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined. OK Ian, by your own admission you are the 'Master Debater', and no links being proferred, lets discuss personal view points regarding the Catholic Church and its destructive nature toward other countries and people, over and above all others combined. I await with baited breath......................... I don't play silly games with people who obviously don't like me. it's not worth my time. I once said to a touchy/friendly Investors in People person, I am not here to make friends, I have all the friends I need. However, you made the above statement and I wanted you to debate the remark, or we can all get away with making any statement we want. So I just wanted to debate the issue with you because you have made many anti-Catholic statements in the past. Lets be sure about two things, it is not silly games when you blacken the faith of someone else and lets be quite sure of one other thing, I do not actually dislike you, why would I? There is only one person in the history of this forum that I hold in contempt and I have told that person on this forum and the other the member frequents, so you can get that monkey of your back. You made the derogatory remark about me and my faith, now debate your comment.
September 22, 201015 yr Author I must agree about the catholic church. So much poverty in sth Americas, Philippines as well as in Europe. Basically by making contraception a BIG NO NO. May I ask what you agree about the Catholic Church? That poverty in S.A and Philly is down to the Church and contraception, please tell me you didn't mean that?
September 22, 201015 yr Author Gents remember what your Momma used to say about religion and politics ? If mine would be alive today she would say " If you want to talk about such things go to OTB with the rest of the wanke_rs " Straight forward woman my Mom. I didn't bring up the statement that elicited my response and as for calling me a wanke_r, it just gets mantlepieced with all the other jibes thrown my way in the past few days.
September 22, 201015 yr Author No it is not hard to bash religion, because it is a soft target and people need something to blame and hang their hat on, knowing that a bunch of others are going to wade in and agree with them, simply because the topic is religion. The abuse of children is a disgrace, the cover up worse, but do not grapeshot the whole Church, there is no justification in stating that all the Clergy is guilty it clearly is not, not even close. If a Canadian is guilty of rape, are all Canadians guilty by association, are all Germans guilty because of the Nazi Regime, Irish because of Omagh, the English because of Cromwell? I think you are mistaken about the power thing but am willing to be convinced otherwise. People die outside of the Catholic Church because of the condom issue, there is a report just recently ( I have forgotten the researchers ) that one in four unmarried adults betwen 16-24 have sex without protection where there is no link to the Catholic Church. I do understand you are not attacking any one personally, I haven't taken it personal, or I would have climbed through the screen and thrown the head at you
September 22, 201015 yr Author I think that Moss was looking to expose Ian's complete ignorance on a subject that he decided to bring up himself, rather than look for an actual discussion on it. To be honest, I was looking for debate, it doesn't have to be in OTB and yes I was looking to expose his ignorance, not because of his ignorance, but because Carte Blanche is allowed in unsupportive accusations, but then we all do that, but we need pulling up on it.
September 22, 201015 yr Author Regardless: The pope making veiled accusations that atheism is leads to Nazism Did he really do that? I don't actually know either way myself but if he did, then El Poperooney has shot himself in the foot there because Hitler was baptised a Catholic and raised a Catholic. Hmmmm. The best I can find is: Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny” (Caritas in Veritate, 29). If you can read Atheism leading to Nazism from that, fair play to you.
September 23, 201015 yr Just look at the popes views on condoms and how many people die because of it (granted they are also for only sex in marriage but then again do we need more people on this planet) Sorry for this but I just cant stand it when people proclaim the church as being good. Im not attacking anyone im just stating an oppinion. The worst places for over-population, to my mind, are India and Pakistan. Not much Catholic influence there, but plenty of religious bigotry, religious hatred. The trouble with over-population is that medical science has advanced very quickly, peoples attitude to the new demographic has not yet been firmed up. So people live longer, children survive, but no precautions are taken against pregnancy, because there is no teaching given for birth-control. T'ain't just the pope, it's most religious leaders in third world countries. Lack of education, lack of social engineering.
September 23, 201015 yr I must agree about the catholic church. So much poverty in sth Americas, Philippines as well as in Europe. Basically by making contraception a BIG NO NO. May I ask what you agree about the Catholic Church? That poverty in S.A and Philly is down to the Church and contraception, please tell me you didn't mean that? considering that the Catholic church screwed up more countries and more people than most other religions combined. That is what I agreed with. NOT allowing the simplest method of limiting family size. People unable to make ends meet. Born and bred a catholic. Once I left school....having to go to Xtian Bros college.... NO MORE. ..... catholicism, any religion for that matter.
September 23, 201015 yr No it is not hard to bash religion, because it is a soft target and people need something to blame and hang their hat on, knowing that a bunch of others are going to wade in and agree with them, simply because the topic is religion. The abuse of children is a disgrace, the cover up worse, but do not grapeshot the whole Church, there is no justification in stating that all the Clergy is guilty it clearly is not, not even close. If a Canadian is guilty of rape, are all Canadians guilty by association, are all Germans guilty because of the Nazi Regime, Irish because of Omagh, the English because of Cromwell? I think you are mistaken about the power thing but am willing to be convinced otherwise. People die outside of the Catholic Church because of the condom issue, there is a report just recently ( I have forgotten the researchers ) that one in four unmarried adults betwen 16-24 have sex without protection where there is no link to the Catholic Church. I do understand you are not attacking any one personally, I haven't taken it personal, or I would have climbed through the screen and thrown the head at you The thing about the abuse is that it has been systematically covered up by the church. You cant deny that so if something like that happens on a scale like this with high ranking members of the church covering it up then something must be rotten. Your whole analogy of Canadians and raping only flies if a lot of them do it and then still they are not all guilty just like the church but there is something very wrong with them calling them good people then does not fly. Sure people die outside the church too when not using condoms however nobody is telling them not to use condoms or helping them justifying their acts. They choose this themselves, but here they are in a way forced to put their lives at risk. That is not free will. If i choose to have sex with someone without a condom after seeing educational stuff about how dangerous it can be.. i could be called stupid. But if i use it because someone in authority tells me not to use them. There is a difference there. I hope you see it too. Just because people die without help of the church does not mean the church has to help others on their way. Also like i stated the church was heavily involved with the Nazi's and now the pope connects atheism with Nazism so that also does not add up. They love to cover up their bad deeds. Let us also not forget how bad the church has been in the past inquisition forced conversions. Burning people at the stake. They did everything to stay in power and gain wealth. You cant tell me that has all changed because organizations like that just don't change that easy. I am happy your not taking it personal because that is not how i mean it. I am discussing it (passionate) but im not trying to attack anyone. I know how tempers can flare (even my own)
September 23, 201015 yr I think that Moss was looking to expose Ian's complete ignorance on a subject that he decided to bring up himself, rather than look for an actual discussion on it. Regardless: The pope making veiled accusations that atheism is leads to Nazism Did he really do that? I don't actually know either way myself but if he did, then El Poperooney has shot himself in the foot there because Hitler was baptised a Catholic and raised a Catholic. Hmmmm. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11332515 Look here and he also said being a pedophile was a disease and they had no free will. He did this so he could rebuke charges of the church being responsible and loosing money on claims (protecting the wealth of the church instead of helping the victims) . So you tell me how good the guy is. I get this kind of stuff from the Dutch and Belgian news sources so it always takes a while before i find the English article. later added The just punishment is exclusion from all possibilities of access to young people because we know that this is a disease and free will does not work where there is disease. So we have to protect these people against themselves and find ways to help them, protect them against themselves and exclude them from any access to young people. http://www.thepapalvisit.org.uk/Replay-the-Visit/Speeches/Speeches-16-September/Pope-Benedict-Interview
September 23, 201015 yr Well this Pope should be able to spot a Nazi now shouldn't he OK edited to add unfair.....I know he had no choice.
September 23, 201015 yr The best I can find is: Even in our own lifetime, we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. I also recall the regime’s attitude to Christian pastors and religious who spoke the truth in love, opposed the Nazis and paid for that opposition with their lives. As we reflect on the sobering lessons of the atheist extremism of the twentieth century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus to a “reductive vision of the person and his destiny” (Caritas in Veritate, 29). If you can read Atheism leading to Nazism from that, fair play to you. Moss not only i read it there many others do too. That is why its a row and not a minor one. He said: "Even in our own lifetimes we can recall how Britain and her leaders stood against a Nazi tyranny that wished to eradicate God from society and denied our common humanity to many, especially the Jews, who were thought unfit to live. "As we reflect on the sobering lessons of atheist extremism of the 20th century, let us never forget how the exclusion of God, religion and virtue from public life leads ultimately to a truncated vision of man and of society and thus a reductive vision of a person and his destiny." 'Highly political' A statement from the British Humanist Association said the Pope's remarks were "surreal". “Start Quote It's not that far rhetorically from the contrary position of Dawkins, who appears to believe that tyranny is the consequence of faith and that virtue is the consequence of atheism” End Quote Kelvin Holsworth Provost of Glasgow's St Marys Cathedral, Scottish Episcopal Church It said: "The notion that it was the atheism of Nazis that led to their extremist and hateful views or that it somehow fuels intolerance in Britain today is a terrible libel against those who do not believe in God. "The notion that it is non-religious people in the UK today who want to force their views on others, coming from a man whose organisation exerts itself internationally to impose its narrow and exclusive form of morality and undermine the human rights of women, children, gay people and many others, is surreal." The German-born Pope has previously spoken of his time growing up under the "monster" of Nazism. He joined the Hitler Youth at 14, as was required of young Germans at the time. Late on in WWII he was drafted into an anti-aircraft unit in Munich. He deserted the German army towards the end of the war and was briefly held as a prisoner-of-war by the Allies in 1945. The Pope's conservative, traditionalist views were intensified when teaching at the University of Bonn in the 1960s he was said to be appalled at the prevalence of Marxism among his students. In his view, religion was being subordinated to a political ideology that he considered "tyrannical, brutal and cruel". He would later be a leading campaigner against liberation theology, the movement to involve the Church in social activism, which for him was too close to Marxism.
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