Thank you Endure for trying but my questions still remain.

1.Should you let your 5 year old son where a dress to school?

2.If your 5 year old son wants to wear a dress to school is he gay?

3. What is the youngest age that a child will know he is gay?

4. Before puberty how would the child know he is gay

I'll jump in and answer these while we wait for endure...

Thank you Endure for trying but my questions still remain.

1.Should you let your 5 year old son where a dress to school?

hel_l NO.

2.If your 5 year old son wants to wear a dress to school is he gay?

I don't know, but if I had a 5 yr old and he wanted to eat only chocolate and ice cream for dinner I wouldn't let him either. Neither one is healthy (like getting beaten up by the other boys)

3. What is the youngest age that a child will know he is gay?

Probably around the same time a child knows he's heterosexual. Well, that's not 100% true. If homosexuality is something the kid doesn't know about (as opposed to constant exposure to hetero-relationships, like Mom & Dad) then he'll likely just be confused and not know he is gay until he does find out there is something like being gay. Sort of like a lion cub being raised by a dog and living only around dogs. He won't realise he's a lion until he gets exposed to other lions or just gets hungry enough and eats one of the dogs.

4. Before puberty how would the child know he is gay

First grade, 5 yrs old, I had a big crush on Judy E. Over 40 years later and I still have a thing for chicks with long, straight blonde hair. I didn't know I was straight or that such a concept like straight or gay even existed. And I think it should stay that way for little kids. You can teach love & affection without getting into sexual details. There's plenty of time for that when things just start getting hairy.

I'll jump in and answer these while we wait for endure...

Thank you Endure for trying but my questions still remain.

1.Should you let your 5 year old son where a dress to school?

hel_l NO.

2.If your 5 year old son wants to wear a dress to school is he gay?

I don't know, but if I had a 5 yr old and he wanted to eat only chocolate and ice cream for dinner I wouldn't let him either. Neither one is healthy (like getting beaten up by the other boys)

3. What is the youngest age that a child will know he is gay?

Probably around the same time a child knows he's heterosexual. Well, that's not 100% true. If homosexuality is something the kid doesn't know about (as opposed to constant exposure to hetero-relationships, like Mom & Dad) then he'll likely just be confused and not know he is gay until he does find out there is something like being gay. Sort of like a lion cub being raised by a dog and living only around dogs. He won't realise he's a lion until he gets exposed to other lions or just gets hungry enough and eats one of the dogs.

4. Before puberty how would the child know he is gay

First grade, 5 yrs old, I had a big crush on Judy E. Over 40 years later and I still have a thing for chicks with long, straight blonde hair. I didn't know I was straight or that such a concept like straight or gay even existed. And I think it should stay that way for little kids. You can teach love & affection without getting into sexual details. There's plenty of time for that when things just start getting hairy.

(sorry...too many quotes, so I had to cut'n'paste)

Well said.

1 and 2, I'm not so sure about, but I see your point about being picked on........

.If your child was the only Asian child at school and he was picked on for it, wouldn't you feel the need to intervene, speak to the school, speak to the bullies parents, teach your son self defence....?

1 and 2, I'm not so sure about, but I see your point about being picked on........

.If your child was the only Asian child at school and he was picked on for it, wouldn't you feel the need to intervene, speak to the school, speak to the bullies parents, teach your son self defence....?

Kids get picked on all the time no matter if they are different from the others or not. It's part of growing up. So my approach would be the same but whatever that would be would depend on the type and severity of the picking on.

Thank you Endure for trying but my questions still remain.

1.Should you let your 5 year old son where a dress to school?

2.If your 5 year old son wants to wear a dress to school is he gay?

3. What is the youngest age that a child will know he is gay?

4. Before puberty how would the child know he is gay

I'm not going to answer 1 or 2 as they verge on the trollish.

I can only speak for myself. I realised I was 'different' in some way when I was 8 or 9 but didn't realise that that difference was that I was gay until I was about 12.

Thank you Endure for trying but my questions still remain.

1.Should you let your 5 year old son where a dress to school?

2.If your 5 year old son wants to wear a dress to school is he gay?

3. What is the youngest age that a child will know he is gay?

4. Before puberty how would the child know he is gay

I'm not going to answer 1 or 2 as they verge on the trollish.

I can only speak for myself. I realised I was 'different' in some way when I was 8 or 9 but didn't realise that that difference was that I was gay until I was about 12.

Thank you for the answer. I am learning things all the time but sometimes I still don't know what trollish behavior is.

Let me tell you a bit more.

The boys name is Pat. He speaks pretty good English and English is not spoken at his home so he learned it all at school. He is a nice little person and the teachers always pick him to do things because of his English ability and his readiness to help. None of his peers pick on him. There are a lot of little boys in Anuban who mimic the actions of girls. At least 20% act in some ways feminine.

I wasn't trying to be trollish when I asked questions #1 and #2. In the west I have not seen so much obvious cross gender behavior. One or two little boys who like to play with girls occasionally or play dolls occasionally but nothing like what I have seen in Thai classrooms. The feminine boys play with the girls. They skip rope at recess and don't play football.

My question is simple and straight forward, no pun intended. Is feminine behavior at an early age a sign of being gay? Or is it a sign of something else and if something else what is that something else?

The other question that you didn't answer was what feelings did you have that let you know you were different? You said you knew you were different at 8 or 9 but you didn't tell us what that difference was.

Thank you Endure for trying but my questions still remain.

1.Should you let your 5 year old son where a dress to school?

2.If your 5 year old son wants to wear a dress to school is he gay?

3. What is the youngest age that a child will know he is gay?

4. Before puberty how would the child know he is gay

I'm not going to answer 1 or 2 as they verge on the trollish.

I can only speak for myself. I realised I was 'different' in some way when I was 8 or 9 but didn't realise that that difference was that I was gay until I was about 12.

Thank you for the answer. I am learning things all the time but sometimes I still don't know what trollish behavior is.

Let me tell you a bit more.

The boys name is Pat. He speaks pretty good English and English is not spoken at his home so he learned it all at school. He is a nice little person and the teachers always pick him to do things because of his English ability and his readiness to help. None of his peers pick on him. There are a lot of little boys in Anuban who mimic the actions of girls. At least 20% act in some ways feminine.

I wasn't trying to be trollish when I asked questions #1 and #2. In the west I have not seen so much obvious cross gender behavior. One or two little boys who like to play with girls occasionally or play dolls occasionally but nothing like what I have seen in Thai classrooms. The feminine boys play with the girls. They skip rope at recess and don't play football.

My question is simple and straight forward, no pun intended. Is feminine behavior at an early age a sign of being gay? Or is it a sign of something else and if something else what is that something else?

The other question that you didn't answer was what feelings did you have that let you know you were different? You said you knew you were different at 8 or 9 but you didn't tell us what that difference was.

I'm afraid you'll have to wait till Pat grows up to find out whether he's a transsexual, gay or simply effeminate but straight. I don't have the answer to your question about early effeminate behaviour as it's something I have no experience or knowledge of myself.

I suspect that there are more effeminate boys in Thailand than in the west simply because there's much less stigma attached to it.

Let's not forget that this transsexual thing works both ways. There was a programme on UK TV a couple of years ago following the tribulations of a teenage girl who was desperate to be a boy. The programme followed her for a couple of years and it was obvious that she was much happier the nearer she became to becoming a he.

As I said I had the feeling that I was different to other boys. That was all - just a feeling that I wasn't the same as them. It wasn't till I was 12ish that I was able to figure out why.

Some gay guys are swishy but many more aren't. Some straight guys are swishy too.

I know it is not politically correct to say this, but this claim has always bothered me. Of course all gay men are not "swishy", but the great majority have mannerisms that might be called "effeminate". Some do not, but I would guess that they are a small minority. That is one reason that I am conviced that homosexuality is largely caused by nature.

Some gay guys are swishy but many more aren't. Some straight guys are swishy too.

I know it is not politically correct to say this, but this claim has always bothered me. Of course all gay men are not "swishy", but the great majority have mannerisms that might be called "effeminate". Some do not, but I would guess that they are a small minority. That is one reason that I am conviced that homosexuality is largely caused by nature.

So how does a young man know he is gay? What kind of feelings does he have that a heterosexual male does not have?

Thailand is pretty relaxed about gays. How do all of the kids in the class know who is gay and who is not?

I used to rotate boys and girls answering questions and writing answers on the white board (6th grade). It was a fun game. I let the boys give the marker to a girl and the girls give the marker to a boy. It became a who do you like game. Or if the question was difficult a who don’t you like game.

A number of boys requested to be able to give the marker to a boy and not a girl. They were gay boys. 12 years old and the onset of puberty. The effeminate boys were gay and the masculine boys were straight. Everyone of course knew this. Thais know this. The kids know who is gay and who is not. So who doesn’t know this?

Some gay guys are swishy but many more aren't. Some straight guys are swishy too.

I know it is not politically correct to say this, but this claim has always bothered me. Of course all gay men are not "swishy", but the great majority have mannerisms that might be called "effeminate". Some do not, but I would guess that they are a small minority. That is one reason that I am conviced that homosexuality is largely caused by nature.

How do you know that it is the great majority have mannerisms that are effeminate? If you meet someone who doesn't have effeminate mannerisms the only way you're going to know whether they're gay is if they tell you and, contrary to popular opinion, most gays don't go round declaring their homosexuality to the world. Your 'guess' is simply that. It lacks logic. Swishy gays are visible. Non swishy gays aren't.

Some gay guys are swishy but many more aren't. Some straight guys are swishy too.

I know it is not politically correct to say this, but this claim has always bothered me. Of course all gay men are not "swishy", but the great majority have mannerisms that might be called "effeminate". Some do not, but I would guess that they are a small minority. That is one reason that I am conviced that homosexuality is largely caused by nature.

So how does a young man know he is gay? What kind of feelings does he have that a heterosexual male does not have?

<deleted> he's SEXUALLY and EMOTIONALLY attracted to men. He has the same feelings as a heterosexual but directed towards men. How difficult is that to understand? Why do you keep asking the same question over and over again when the answer has been given to you by those reasonably well qualified to answer?

Some gay guys are swishy but many more aren't. Some straight guys are swishy too.

I know it is not politically correct to say this, but this claim has always bothered me. Of course all gay men are not "swishy", but the great majority have mannerisms that might be called "effeminate". Some do not, but I would guess that they are a small minority. That is one reason that I am conviced that homosexuality is largely caused by nature.

So how does a young man know he is gay? What kind of feelings does he have that a heterosexual male does not have?

<deleted> he's SEXUALLY and EMOTIONALLY attracted to men. He has the same feelings as a heterosexual but directed towards men. How difficult is that to understand? Why do you keep asking the same question over and over again when the answer has been given to you by those reasonably well qualified to answer?

Sorry you misunderstood me. It was a rhetorical question in the last post. I thought I answered it later on in the post. But I can see how I was not clear enough.

The answer was everyone in the children's class knows without the gender preferences and pressures of the west. Because they act different than the heterosexual boys.

I don’t know how they act at home as there may be some pressure there to conform.

I would assume later in life they learn to act straight or effeminate depending on the situation.

At 12 years old it is, in some cases obvious they like boys as opposed to girls. Earlier they play with girls instead of boys.

I have only had a chance to watch three years of growth from P-4 to M-1. No surprises. Nobody changed sides.

Pleas read the short article and watch the clip about "The most awesome family in America"

http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/my_princess_boy_meet_the_most_awesome_family_in_america

By the way I recently read an article where some of those governors etc.that were firmly against gay marriage and all of that with some being caught in the public toilets with a male and others that had to admit being gay and lately that guy that hired a male escort to carry his bags or something.

By the way I recently read an article where some of those governors etc.that were firmly against gay marriage and all of that with some being caught in the public toilets with a male and others that had to admit being gay and lately that guy that hired a male escort to carry his bags or something.

Maybe they are all for gay sex, but against gay marriage.

By the way I recently read an article where some of those governors etc.that were firmly against gay marriage and all of that with some being caught in the public toilets with a male and others that had to admit being gay and lately that guy that hired a male escort to carry his bags or something.

Maybe they are all for gay sex, but against gay marriage.

Like Elton John?

Did you guys read the <deleted> article and watch the clip?

If not, just stop breathing OK?

Did you guys read the <deleted> article and watch the clip?

If not, just stop breathing OK?

So if I don't want to read one of your links or watch one of your videos I should just stop breathing (and presumably die)? You should seek help.

However, I read the article and watched most of the video. So "the most awesome family" is awesome because they celebrate the fact that their little boy likes to dress up like a princess. Sure, ok. One question though, on the cover of the book, "My Princess Boy", why is the boy's head a walnut? Is that some not-so-subtle message?

OK, one more question...

If a boy wants to dress up like a princess, that's OK. But what if the boy wants to dress up like Napoleon? Would he be treated differently? If so, how and why?

If a boy wants to dress up like a princess, that's OK. But what if the boy wants to dress up like Napoleon? Would he be treated differently? If so, how and why?

Depends if he speaks French with a Corsican accent.

If a boy wants to dress up like a princess, that's OK. But what if the boy wants to dress up like Napoleon? Would he be treated differently? If so, how and why?

Depends if he speaks French with a Corsican accent.

Actually, it's a very interesting question that raises alot of other questions, especially about the boy that wants to dress like a princess.

Or perhaps the questions shouldn't be about the boys. Perhaps koheesti's Napolean question should raise questions about how we (society) treat our boys.

Should both boys should be treated equally? With kind indulgence? With special treatment? With clinical treatment to "cure" them?

Or is young Napolean manifesting a mental abnormality (I choose the word carefully) that may or may not be harmfull, whereas young Cindarella's "condition" (I use the word with caution) is not mental but physical/emotional/genetic (.homosexual or transvestite manifestation (I distinguish between TV and homo))?

If a boy wants to dress up like a princess, that's OK. But what if the boy wants to dress up like Napoleon? Would he be treated differently? If so, how and why?

Depends if he speaks French with a Corsican accent.

Actually, it's a very interesting question that raises alot of other questions, especially about the boy that wants to dress like a princess.

Or perhaps the questions shouldn't be about the boys. Perhaps koheesti's Napolean question should raise questions about how we (society) treat our boys.

Should both boys should be treated equally? With kind indulgence? With special treatment? With clinical treatment to "cure" them?

Or is young Napolean manifesting a mental abnormality (I choose the word carefully) that may or may not be harmfull, whereas young Cindarella's "condition" (I use the word with caution) is not mental but physical/emotional/genetic (.homosexual or transvestite manifestation (I distinguish between TV and homo))?

What I'm saying is that just because a boy wants to dress like a princess doesn't always mean that it is something to celebrate. Oh! He's a cute little gay baby who is creative and loves beautiful things and is comfortable being who he is. 'Ooooooo!! If he dressed like Napoleon people wouldn't be saying anything about his wonderful curiousity about early 19th century European history. In both cases, maybe the kid is insane. It can't be ruled out despite Political Correctness.

what makes you think he's gay? maybe he just likes to play dress up.

he is a little kid for christs sake, do you honestly think that a 5 year old has a concept of sexuality?

what makes you think he's gay? maybe he just likes to play dress up.

he is a little kid for christs sake, do you honestly think that a 5 year old has a concept of sexuality?

SBK I don’t know if you are referring to the child in my post. I think you are but I am not sure. So if you are not please don’t take offense.

I was sitting in a booth promoting English language studies with the mayor of the town and his chief lieutenants when I was first introduced to Pat. This little kid with short hair (boys haircut) came running up to me to shake hands and speak to me in English.

He was dressed in the school uniform of an Anuban girl.

Later I had occasion to visit the school on numerous occasions and Pat always said hi. He was always dressed as a girl. He normally dressed as a girl when he came to school. I watched his interaction with the other children and he was always with the girls jumping rope or other feminine games.

I saw him enough to determine he always dressed like a girl for school.

I don’t think it was a matter of he liked “playing dress up.” He was a cross dresser. And his behavior was accepted by the school.

I think this is unusual for a couple of reasons. One, I have never seen a cross dresser in a western kindergarten. I have seen a lot of kindergartens having raised 4 children. Two, I have seen lady boys at the age of 18 or 19 in Thai universities that were dressed as males. In other words they wore heavy pancake make up and eye make up and feminine earrings but a boys shirt and slacks and shoes. They acted very feminine, ultra feminine as is the case with most lady boys. I assumed from this that they were not allowed to cross dress in universities at least not in the ones close to my home.

I don’t think Pat had any concept of sexuality. I do think he had a gender concept of boy and girl. I think he knew he was a boy but dressed and acted like a girl.

I don’t know if there was a father in the home. Had he been my son I would not have allowed this to happen. Maybe that would have messed him up. I don’t know. If he did just like to play dress up he would have gotten over it as I would have given him superman pajamas or batman or something like that.

Had he been upset at not being allowed to wear little girls clothes for more than a few weeks I would have caved in and allowed it in Thailand. In the States or England I don’t know.

That is one of the reasons I like Thailand. The girls are pretty and so are the boys.

what makes you think he's gay? maybe he just likes to play dress up.

he is a little kid for christs sake, do you honestly think that a 5 year old has a concept of sexuality?

If you had read my other posts in this thread you wouldn't have asked that question.

But you're right, it doesn't mean he's going to be gay. Odds are probably 99-1 in favor of it, but it isn't a guarnatee.

he is a little kid for christs sake, do you honestly think that a 5 year old has a concept of sexuality?

I don't want to get into sordid deatails, but I was horny as heck at that age and only interested in females.

"Horny as heck"at 5?

Abnormal, I'm sure.

I'll refrain from commenting on how that abnormal child appears to have followed through.

what makes you think he's gay? maybe he just likes to play dress up.

he is a little kid for christs sake, do you honestly think that a 5 year old has a concept of sexuality?

If you had read my other posts in this thread you wouldn't have asked that question.

But you're right, it doesn't mean he's going to be gay. Odds are probably 99-1 in favor of it, but it isn't a guarnatee.

Conventional wisdom rarely squares with political correctness.

he is a little kid for christs sake, do you honestly think that a 5 year old has a concept of sexuality?

I don't want to get into sordid deatails, but I was horny as heck at that age and only interested in females.

You got me beat. My first date was dinner at the Yacht club with Kathy Hollencamp at 6 years old. I think we kissed. That is also my first memory of a relationship with a female. I also remember Annette from the Mickey Mouse club. But that is sordid and I won't go into it.

I also remember Annette from the Mickey Mouse club. But that is sordid and I won't go into it.

You too?! That slut!

I also remember Annette from the Mickey Mouse club. But that is sordid and I won't go into it.

You too?! That slut!

I also remember Annette from the Mickey Mouse club. But that is sordid and I won't go into it.

You must have been a real perve. I spent a lot of time in front of the TV leering at "Bewitched", Marlo Thomas. Ginger on Gilligan's Island and other intelligent, mature women.