My Car Clutch Feels A Bit Soft

[silk123]

It even wouldn't let me go in 1st gear at a traffic light yesterday and i had to pump it to let it engage so i could move on but worked fine again the rest of the way home just felt slightly soft same as before. So it's sitting today and i'm on the motorbike.

if it's something simple like adding oil and bleedingI'd rather do it myself to prevent risk of mechanics breaking something to make work for themselves as they do.

I appreciate any pointers.

[cdnvic]

If you need to ask this, you don't have the knowlage needed to be going at something like this yourself. Sounds like something has bent in the linkage. I'd have a mechanic look at it.

cv

[thebear]

Sounds like your clutch plates have worn out. Unless you know car mechanics I would recommend you get the garage to change the clutch as replacement entails unbolting the gearbox from the engine - not a major job if you know what you are doing.

[Thaipwriter]

It even wouldn't let me go in 1st gear at a traffic light yesterday and i had to pump it to let it engage so i could move on but worked fine again the rest of the way home just felt slightly soft same as before.  So it's sitting today and i'm on the motorbike.

if it's something simple like adding oil and bleedingI'd rather do it myself to prevent risk of mechanics breaking something to make work for themselves as they do.

I appreciate any pointers.

mmmmmmmm I'm assuming it's a manuat tranny right? sounds like you may have boiled the fluid in the clutch circiut, this can happen in hot countries in traffic jams. if your a "clutch slipper" friction from the clutch plates can heat the slave cylinder and boil the fluid.This will give you that "spongy" feeling. get underneath and look for any leaks, open the cap of the reservoir and see if the fluid is clean.

Bleeding the system is easy enough with 2 people but you may as well go to a main dealer. is will cost you pennies to have them do it.

Edited July 30, 2005 by Thaipwriter

[terdsak_12]

A new clutch for a regular type car is around 3-4 grand, nothing!!!

[Tywais]

A new clutch for a regular type car is around 3-4 grand, nothing!!!

terdsak_12 is correct, a friend of mine just had theirs done (sometimes the clutch would not engage) for 3000B. So best to find a reputable garage and let them do it. Ask around, word of mouth is a good way to find one.

[Kringle]

If you can get the cluth replacement job done for 3-4000 baht then you're laughing. Heck, the parts would cost you way more than this in the States and labor would be over the moon. Find a reputable mechanic and get them to do the job. If it is only clutch fluid then a simple bleed should be easy or it could be the clutch slave cylinder and depending on the vehicle, also an easy fix to replace it. Do you have a sevice repair manual for the vehicle. Check there first inder troubleshooting.

[Buff-horns]

amateur mech around here !

sounds like the clutch master cylinder or possibly slave cylinder is leeking .

The rubber seals wear out after a few years ,so you replace them and bleed the hydraulic system after.

If the car is old the master cyclinder may need replacing ,which can be expesnive.

its easy to do if you have a few tools and hydraulic oil and new seals.

[sonong1]

amateur mech around here !

sounds like the clutch master cylinder or possibly slave cylinder is leeking .

The rubber seals wear out after a few years ,so you replace them and bleed the hydraulic system after.

If the car is old the master cyclinder may need replacing ,which can be expesnive.

its easy to do if you have a few tools and hydraulic oil and new seals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the correct diagnosis - If its the M/cyld you may find some fluid on your shoe other wise certainly the slave cylinder cost to repair thailand 1000baht tops.

Check the reservoir if still full just mean cups are collapsing(the lips soften) thats why when you pump the pedal it will give clutch for a short time until cups are abolutelty shot.

[Buff-horns]

amateur mech around here !

sounds like the clutch master cylinder or possibly slave cylinder is leeking .

The rubber seals wear out after a few years ,so you replace them and bleed the hydraulic system after.

If the car is old the master cyclinder may need replacing ,which can be expesnive.

its easy to do if you have a few tools and hydraulic oil and new seals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the correct diagnosis - If its the M/cyld you may find some fluid on your shoe other wise certainly the slave cylinder cost to repair thailand 1000baht tops.

Check the reservoir if still full just mean cups are collapsing(the lips soften) thats why when you pump the pedal it will give clutch for a short time until cups are abolutelty shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it would have to be a very ancient car to find oil on your shoe inside the car.40 years old +

the clutch master cylinder is in the engine compartment behind the bulkhead .

and the resevoir somewhere else maybe.

[chownah]

Every clutch I have ever worked on had mechanical linkage, not hydraulic linkage....but then I've never owned a vehicle built after 1989 except for my pickup in Thailand and here it is so cheap to have it fixed that I don't bother. Are you guys sure that all of your clutches have hydraulic linkages?

[silk123]

My resevoir is full and i'd like soft lips with big cups. oh yeah.

Seriously but the res in front of the driver is full and i've gone under and can't see any leaks around or under the big flat circle attached to the bulkhead in front of driver.

I'll ask around for a decent local garage and drive it in or better i'll let herself drive it in to change the seals in the clutch cylinders and top up the powersteering res cause it's low.

Very impressed with the crowd on Thaivisa. Thanks.

[fxm88]

It even wouldn't let me go in 1st gear at a traffic light yesterday and i had to pump it to let it engage so i could move on but worked fine again the rest of the way home just felt slightly soft same as before.  So it's sitting today and i'm on the motorbike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In an emergency you can shift gears by revving to high RPMs, apply not-very-much pressure towards the gear you want to shift into, then letting off the gas. First it'll ease intro neutral and then it should ease into the desired gear. Don't force it! As the RPMs come down there's a magic point where something syncs up and the car almost shifts itself. Getting it into first is a little trickier, it'll lurch, but it works too -- although its preferable to try and regulate your speed so you can avoid having to come to a complete stop.

DISCLAIMER I'm not a mechanic and I barely understand the parts that make up the clutch. If you break your car I'm really sorry but don't blame me.

[chownah]

It even wouldn't let me go in 1st gear at a traffic light yesterday and i had to pump it to let it engage so i could move on but worked fine again the rest of the way home just felt slightly soft same as before.  So it's sitting today and i'm on the motorbike.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In an emergency you can shift gears by revving to high RPMs, apply not-very-much pressure towards the gear you want to shift into, then letting off the gas. First it'll ease intro neutral and then it should ease into the desired gear. Don't force it! As the RPMs come down there's a magic point where something syncs up and the car almost shifts itself. Getting it into first is a little trickier, it'll lurch, but it works too -- although its preferable to try and regulate your speed so you can avoid having to come to a complete stop.

DISCLAIMER I'm not a mechanic and I barely understand the parts that make up the clutch. If you break your car I'm really sorry but don't blame me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right...shifting without a clutch can be done WHEN THE CAR IS MOVING FORWARD....but I wouldn't try it from a standstill....if your clutch is dead the way to get started from a standstill is to turn the motor off, put the car into first gear, turn the starter on while the car is in gear and it will lurch forward a couple of times and then start up and voila, you are moving forward in first gear....from then on you can shift without the clutch no problem...once you get the feel for it. Getting started is a bit hard on the starting system but if your starting system is in good condition it won't be a problem.

[Thaiboxer]

Like chownah, I've never seen or heard of any cars with hyudraulic clutches....must be a relatively new thing. I'm on my third car with a manual transmission; all three having been built in the 80's. Once the thing starts slipping, you'll wear down the flywheel if you keep driving it and that will make the repair A LOT more expensive. I would imagine a stuck clutch will also mess up the flywheel. Most shops in the US can resurface a flywheel but if the thing is worn down too much, it needs to be replaced. I'm not sure if the average neighborhood shop in Thailand can resurface a flywheel though. The good thing about owning cars here is that maintenance is not too expensive. This is why you see folks driving around in these 30 year old steel tubs.

[bino]

Hydraulic clutches are not new at all. The first car I ever owned when I was a teenager was a 1971 Datsun, which had a hydraulic clutch. The same series of Datsun was sold in Canada from 1968, and had the hydraulic clutch back to that year.

Every car I have ever owned (mostly Japanese) has had a hydraulic clutch.

For the original poster- If the clutch feels spongy, and you can gain it back by pumping it up, it sounds as if there is air in your hydraulic system. This is likely caused by a leak in the hydraulic system at the slave cylinder. The hydraulic fluid coming out is creating an air bubble in the hydraulic line that is slowly rising up through the tube to your master cylinder.

You might not be seeing any leak because it could be going into the bell housing (front of transmission) where the clutch resides, or may be such a small leak that only a few drops are leaked out.

Bleeding the system really isn't difficult, but it is easily possible to strip or break the bleeder valve. If you're not mechanically inclined- get a mechanic to bleed the system. Thy this out before you go to the hassle and expense of pulling your engine and replacing the clutch. You might get lucky and have a 200 baht repair instead of a 4000 baht one.

Worth a try.

[mijan246]

amateur mech around here !

sounds like the clutch master cylinder or possibly slave cylinder is leeking .

The rubber seals wear out after a few years ,so you replace them and bleed the hydraulic system after.

If the car is old the master cyclinder may need replacing ,which can be expesnive.

its easy to do if you have a few tools and hydraulic oil and new seals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is the correct diagnosis - If its the M/cyld you may find some fluid on your shoe other wise certainly the slave cylinder cost to repair thailand 1000baht tops.

Check the reservoir if still full just mean cups are collapsing(the lips soften) thats why when you pump the pedal it will give clutch for a short time until cups are abolutelty shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Without opening a can of worms Yes the clutch master cylinder is mounted on the bulkhead inside the engine bay the clutch pedal then via a push rod normaly mounted to the clutch pedal with a clevis pin this push rod goes through the firewall (bulkhead into the recess in the rear of the master cylinder pistion and if it is the rear cup collapsing it is quite normal to get brake fluid on your shoe or on the cabin floor.

(yes brake fluid - the same fluid is used for brake & clutch)

bino Yes it could be air but most clutch systems are self bleeding also there are only a few with the slave cylinder mounted inside the bell housing.

[bino]

bino Yes it could be air but most clutch systems are self bleeding also there are only a few with the slave cylinder mounted inside the bell housing.

Self bleeding? I've never heard of this. How does it work?

Also- I've never seen a slave cylinder inside the bell housing. (I said that the leaked fluid may be finding its way there) The slave cylinder usually acts on a lever arm, which activates the pressure plate. The pivot point of the lever arm is usually incorporated into the bellhousing where the lever enters it.

How would it work if the slave cylinder was inside?

.

[mijan246]

bino Yes it could be air but most clutch systems are self bleeding also there are only a few with the slave cylinder mounted inside the bell housing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Self bleeding? I've never heard of this. How does it work?

Also- I've never seen a slave cylinder inside the bell housing. (I said that the leaked fluid may be finding its way there) The slave cylinder usually acts on a lever arm, which activates the pressure plate. The pivot point of the lever arm is usually incorporated into the bellhousing where the lever enters it.

How would it work if the slave cylinder was inside?

.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Self bleeding systems are quite common they are even incorporated in many diesel fuel systems.

Diesel

1.Self bleeding systems - Some systems are said to be self bleeding, that is if air gets into them (like when you run out of fuel) the system will get rid of the air without your help.

In these systems you do not need to open any bleed screws as the aerated fuel is sent back through the return line to the tank

THESE SYSTEMS OFTEN PUT GREAT DEMANDS UPON THE STARTING BATTERY.

Bosch ROTARY PUMP is a "self bleeding" version. The marine design ideally has a link to the leak off pipe from the injector pump.

2.The Name You Can Trust

The presence of Westerbeke in over 65 countries around the world provides customers with easy access to parts, service and technical support worldwide. Established in 1937, Westerbeke is committed to providing its customers with quality products and unequaled after sales support.

Standard Equipment

Engine pre-wired to plug-in connector

Self-bleeding fuel system

Fresh water cooled engine

Transmission oil cooler

A hydraulic clutch "linkage" system is like a simple brake system. It has a master cylinder to provide hydraulic pressure, tubing and a flexible hose to carry the hydraulic fluid, and a slave cylinder which operates the release fork and release bearing.

There are a variety of vehicles and equipment around with the slave cylinder mounting moulded as part of the bell housing and the clutch fork is inside the actual bell housing - the slave cylinder bleeding niple is external some are completely enclosed and access is thru the inspection plate on the bottom.

Also there is the concentric slave cylinder may be more difficult to diagnose. Some systems, particularly Ford and GM trucks and others with an internal slave cylinder, can be particularly difficult to bleed

The external hydraulic line from the C/Mcyld fits into the exxternal part of the slave cylinder and foot pedal pressure on the clutch activates the clutch master cylinder and the subsequently the pressurised hydraulic fluid operates the piston in the S/Cyld which then causes the clutch fork lever to activate on its fulcrum which moves the throughout bearing againt the clutch diphram fingers and disengages the drive between the engine and the transmission. This allows the synchro rings to match speeds and mate hence smooth no crunch gear changing is achieved.

The hydraulic clutch used on the Peugeot 504 and 505 is a very clever design but there is a problem that the rules usually applied to hydraulic brake systems do not apply and this causes unwanted challenges for many DIY enthusiasts. Brake systems are designed to collect any air in the system at the slave cylinders where it has to be 'bled' off by opening a bleed nipple that is located at the highest point of each cylinder. The fundamental feature of the clutch hydraulic system is that there is an unobstructed 'up hill' path for air from the slave cylinder through to the reservoir. A bubble sneaking past a worn slave cylinder seal will rise to the top of the slave cylinder, into the pipe and up to the bottom of the master cylinder, into the master cylinder and upwards to the pressure equalisation hole just ahead of the front seal, and finally up to the reservoir. By the way, it is common for old slave cylinder seals to admit a little air into the clutch hydraulics and the self bleeding action usually gets rid of it. Some of us have developed a soft clutch after extended periods of highway driving, which seems to cure itself. This is an example of the air leaking in faster that the self-bleeding can get rid of it.

This is quick but hope it helps.

[wilko]

It even wouldn't let me go in 1st gear at a traffic light yesterday and i had to pump it to let it engage so i could move on but worked fine again the rest of the way home just felt slightly soft same as before.  So it's sitting today and i'm on the motorbike.

if it's something simple like adding oil and bleedingI'd rather do it myself to prevent risk of mechanics breaking something to make work for themselves as they do.

I appreciate any pointers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the clutch won't dis-engage without pumping, it would indicate that you have little or no fluid in the reservoir. Usually easily visible under the bonnet. Just top it up.

You should not need to bleed it and certainly not need to replace the clutch!

Other symptoms for this would be limited travel in the clutch pedal and a light feeling to the pedal. as the loss of fluid is gradual you don't really notice it at first until finally there is not enough to release the clutch.

PS - I can't see if you say what the vehicle is or how old, but if it's less than 4 years old the loss of fluid may not be due to a leek of any significance, just that every time it was serviced no-one has bothered to properly check the various hydraulic levels.

Rather than get involved in major surgery straight away, just top it up and monitor it for a few days - if it goes down then you may well have a leek. If you have a local garage they will show you where the clutch fluid reservoir is and sell you the right fluid to put in it - or do it for you. this operation will take no more than 30 seconds - (bent linkages went out with the BSA bantham!)

Edited August 2, 2005 by wilko

[silk123]

It even wouldn't let me go in 1st gear at a traffic light yesterday and i had to pump it to let it engage so i could move on but worked fine again the rest of the way home just felt slightly soft same as before.  So it's sitting today and i'm on the motorbike.

if it's something simple like adding oil and bleedingI'd rather do it myself to prevent risk of mechanics breaking something to make work for themselves as they do.

I appreciate any pointers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the clutch won't dis-engage without pumping, it would indicate that you have little or no fluid in the reservoir. Usually easily visible under the bonnet. Just top it up.

You should not need to bleed it and certainly not need to replace the clutch!

Other symptoms for this would be limited travel in the clutch pedal and a light feeling to the pedal. as the loss of fluid is gradual you don't really notice it at first until finally there is not enough to release the clutch.

PS - I can't see if you say what the vehicle is or how old, but if it's less than 4 years old the loss of fluid may not be due to a leek of any significance, just that every time it was serviced no-one has bothered to properly check the various hydraulic levels.

Rather than get involved in major surgery straight away, just top it up and monitor it for a few days - if it goes down then you may well have a leek. If you have a local garage they will show you where the clutch fluid reservoir is and sell you the right fluid to put in it - or do it for you. this operation will take no more than 30 seconds - (bent linkages went out with the BSA bantham!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BTW the car is 12 years old and had just the one chinese thai owner who gave me the inpression he kept t well serviced by letting me know when it was due for an oil change and to change water and coolant 6 months after buying it.

I was just going to the garage with it and i looked up here to see again.

Thanks for the pointers.

One thing. The res is toped up but is it the right res. There are 2 i can see.

1 is the power steering res(a guess) over the alternator going to a pump on the alternator. That is low because i didn't get around to getting power steering fluid/oil.

The other one is in fron of the driver near the bulk head and is toped up. That's the brakes right?

So where is the clutch res?

[LoveDaBlues]

If you have the owner's manual look there it will show you where the clutch res is. Has to be located on the firewall.

[mijan246]

wilko, SILK123, and LoveDaBlues you have covered it all next step call the next door neighbour if he/she can't help try this web site http://www.expatmotors.co.th/