Well, now we know why the US didn't do more to stop Wikileaks.

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http://tinyurl.com/36s7egf

WASHINGTON – The enormous cache of secret war logs disclosed by the WikiLeaks website paints a picture of an Iraq burdened by persistent sectarian tension and meddling neighbors, suggesting that the country could drift into chaos once U.S. forces leave.

The reports, covering early 2004 to Jan. 1, 2010, help explain why Iraq's struggle to create a unified, independent state continues, despite a dramatic reduction in violence. They appear to support arguments by some experts that the U.S. should keep thousands of troops there beyond their scheduled departure in 2011, to buy more time for Iraq to become stable.

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"now we know why the US didn't do more to stop Wikileaks"

1.What more could they have done without him (Assange) "having an accident" (which would have had many fingers pointing their way)? Besides, Wikileaks is bigger than just one man, so Assange's disappearance would have achieved nothing.

2. I think America's desire to get out of Iraq is greater than their desire to create a happy stable environment there.

3. The leaks have revealed war crimes and cover-ups that America would much rather have stayed secret than have any sort of "justification to stay".

"They appear to support arguments by some experts that the U.S. should keep thousands of troops there beyond their scheduled departure in 2011, to buy more time for Iraq to become stable."

Iraq was stable before we invaded. It wasn't a 'democracy' but when has that ever bothered the western powers when they had self-interest to satisfy?

If you walk into other people's back yards without permission you shouldn't be surprised when they set the dog on you.

Iraq was stable before we invaded.

Most dictatorships are. Torturing and killing his enemies and gassing his own people made Saddam's Iraq very stable.

Iraq was stable before we invaded.

Most dictatorships are. Torturing and killing his enemies and gassing his own people made Saddam's Iraq very stable.

Indeed.

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

Why not claim that they used chemical weapons as long as you are at it.

Why not claim that they used chemical weapons as long as you are at it.

why not...

The use of DU in munitions is controversial because of questions about potential long-term health effects. Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure, because uranium is a toxic metal. It is weakly radioactive and remains so because of its long physical half-life (4.468 billion years for uranium-238). The biological half-life (the average time it takes for the human body to eliminate half the amount in the body) for uranium is about 15 days. The aerosol produced during impact and combustion of depleted uranium munitions can potentially contaminate wide areas around the impact sites leading to possible inhalation by human beings.

During a three week period of conflict in 2003 in Iraq, 1,000 to 2,000 tonnes of DU munitions were used.

The use of DU in munitions is controversial because of questions about potential long-term health effects.

I certainly hope that no terrorists got sick after they were blown up.

i hope your grandchildren do not play with any DU fragments they found in the backyard.

Iraq was stable before we invaded.

Most dictatorships are. Torturing and killing his enemies and gassing his own people made Saddam's Iraq very stable.

Indeed.

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

Funny too that the so called dictator was happily accepted as a puppet for many years....until he decided to quit.Sell oil in Euros etc.

Suddenly Iraq is deemed unstable....We are to believe it was always stable when he was the lap dog of the US though..

This spin machine should write for Aesop's

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

If you read the article, you will see that the leaks indeed show there was a lot of torture - by Iraqis on Iraqis - and the Americans were stopping it.

btw - I said in the OP, stopping Wikileaks, nothing about only targeting Assange himself.

Saddam invaded Kuwait. Some of us do not seem to realize that.

Funny too that the so called dictator was happily accepted as a puppet for many years....until he decided to quit.Sell oil in Euros etc.

They could sell in Euros back in 1991?

Saddam invaded Kuwait. Some of us do not seem to realize that.

...as well as Iran.

Saddam invaded Kuwait. Some of us do not seem to realize that.

...as well as Iran.

as well as Khafji, Saudi Arabia.

If you read the article, you will see that the leaks indeed show there was a lot of torture - by Iraqis on Iraqis - and the Americans were stopping it.

Telling the the truth is always better, but often not appreciated.

Years of abuse under Saddam Hussein produced an exceptionally violent society. Iraqis used cables, metal rods, wooden poles and live electrical wires to hurt prisoners. One report on a detainee cited "bruises in a roughly boot shape from upper to lower back." In another, a detainee is said to have bruises from beatings with a board. Another detainee suffered blurred vision, bleeding in his ears and nose, bruises on his back, arms and legs and hemorrhaging in his eyes. Americans told the local Iraqi Army commander but did not open an inquiry because no American was involved.

American soldiers, however, often intervened. During a visit to a police unit in Ramadi, an American soldier entered a cell after hearing screams and found two badly dehydrated detainees with bruises on their bodies. He had them transferred out of Iraqi custody.

In August 2006, an American sergeant in Ramadi heard whipping noises in a military police station and walked in on an Iraqi lieutenant using an electrical cable to slash the bottom of a detainee's feet. The American stopped him, but later he found the same Iraqi officer whipping a detainee's back.Read the Document »

One beaten detainee said in 2005 that "when the Marines finally took him, he was treated very well, and he was thankful and happy to see them." Read the Document »

Early on, space for detainees was limited, and Iraqis would stuff them into makeshift jails, increasing the chances for abuse. In November 2005, American soldiers found 95 blindfolded detainees with sores and broken bones crammed into a police internment center.

http://www.nytimes.c...es.html?_r=1

The Salvador option has been widely used in Iraq.

US army train Iraq people into becoming death squads, killing the opposition.

Negroponte did this in latin America, Bremer just made sure these mercenaries were immune.

Proof please.

They could sell in Euros back in 1991?

In November 2000 Iraq began selling oil in Euros. But that was perhaps the last puppet string to snap eh?

When did the US turn from the supposed hunt in Afghanistan for a "supposed" 9/11 terrorist to instead the unprovoked "Shock & Awe" attack on Iraq & declare Saddam had to be found & removed/deposed/killed?.....yup

Served multiple purposes....

Safeguard that the oil would remain traded in US dollars

Send a message to other oil producers what could happen if they attempted the same exit from the dollar.

Put the 2nd largest oil reserve under its thumb/US military control.

Create a control state from which the US can dominate M.E oil

sweet dreams boys as the same 4-5 sleepers will go round & round ad nauseam on this with unrelated justifications. Till the usual one posts an inappropriate picture of some unrelated war of long ago & gets the thread closed.

I will leave it to you boys to rehash. Enjoy

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

If you read the article, you will see that the leaks indeed show there was a lot of torture - by Iraqis on Iraqis - and the Americans were stopping it.

btw - I said in the OP, stopping Wikileaks, nothing about only targeting Assange himself.

Americans were stopping the torture? Or turning a blind eye to it? I think you will find the leaks detail alot more blind eye turniing than stopping.

BTW....who performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Graib?

Served multiple purposes....

There are always multiple reasons. You could say the Euro thing was just one of many reasons. Was it the last straw? I doubt it.

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

If you read the article, you will see that the leaks indeed show there was a lot of torture - by Iraqis on Iraqis - and the Americans were stopping it.

btw - I said in the OP, stopping Wikileaks, nothing about only targeting Assange himself.

Americans were stopping the torture? Or turning a blind eye to it? I think you will find the leaks detail alot more blind eye turniing than stopping.

BTW....who performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Graib?

If you would spend 3 minutes reading, you would learn that the Americans were stopping it. They even had soldiers sleeping in the police station to stop it.

Abu Ghraib? When the Americans left, leaving the prison to the Iraqis, the prisoners all wanted to go with the Americans. Only American-hating leftist nutjobs think underwear on the head is horrible, but even the Iraqis prefer that to having limbs hacked off (there's a video around someplace, google it).

Back to the thread topic, the wikileaks makes America look pretty good. Too good. I think a deal was cut.

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

If you read the article, you will see that the leaks indeed show there was a lot of torture - by Iraqis on Iraqis - and the Americans were stopping it.

btw - I said in the OP, stopping Wikileaks, nothing about only targeting Assange himself.

Americans were stopping the torture? Or turning a blind eye to it? I think you will find the leaks detail alot more blind eye turniing than stopping.

BTW....who performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Graib?

If you would spend 3 minutes reading, you would learn that the Americans were stopping it. They even had soldiers sleeping in the police station to stop it.

Abu Ghraib? When the Americans left, leaving the prison to the Iraqis, the prisoners all wanted to go with the Americans. Only American-hating leftist nutjobs think underwear on the head is horrible, but even the Iraqis prefer that to having limbs hacked off (there's a video around someplace, google it).

Back to the thread topic, the wikileaks makes America look pretty good. Too good. I think a deal was cut.

3 minutes of reading details the good......that leaves about 3 months of reading the rest., all the not so good. Soldiers actually sleeping at the police station? Wow. Brave fellows. I'm sure their sleeping mitigates the fact that since the invasion, more civilians than enemy militants have been killed by American soldiers.

Are you calling me a nutjob? tut tut tut. SBK frowns on that sort of name-calling.

I don't think that undies on the head is all that horrible.....mind you, it would depend on who was wearing them beforehand and for how long, don't you think?

Americans were stopping the torture? Or turning a blind eye to it? I think you will find the leaks detail alot more blind eye turniing than stopping.

BTW....who performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Graib?

If you would spend 3 minutes reading, you would learn that the Americans were stopping it. They even had soldiers sleeping in the police station to stop it.

Abu Ghraib? When the Americans left, leaving the prison to the Iraqis, the prisoners all wanted to go with the Americans. Only American-hating leftist nutjobs think underwear on the head is horrible, but even the Iraqis prefer that to having limbs hacked off (there's a video around someplace, google it).

Back to the thread topic, the wikileaks makes America look pretty good. Too good. I think a deal was cut.

3 minutes of reading details the good......that leaves about 3 months of reading the rest., all the not so good. Soldiers actually sleeping at the police station? Wow. Brave fellows. I'm sure their sleeping mitigates the fact that since the invasion, more civilians than enemy militants have been killed by American soldiers.

Highly doubtful. around 95% of the civilians killed have been killed by non-Americans.

Are you calling me a nutjob? tut tut tut. SBK frowns on that sort of name-calling.

I don't think that undies on the head is all that horrible.....mind you, it would depend on who was wearing them beforehand and for how long, don't you think?

If you don't call undies on the head horrible, then why do you think I was specifically calling you a nutjob? Regular people in the west are spoiled and weak compared to some of the rougher places in the world. People who have experienced real torture, have a different idea of what torture is compared to people who have left comfortable lives in a safe environment.

Highly doubtful. around 95% of the civilians killed have been killed by non-Americans.

Link please.

Highly doubtful. around 95% of the civilians killed have been killed by non-Americans.

Link please.

I've posted one here before but while I search for that specific link, here are a few others showing who has been killing the civilians;

http://www.nejm.org/...56/NEJMp0807240

http://salonesoteric...and-occupation/

http://www.iraqbodyc...incidents/page1

http://icasualties.org/iraq/IraqiDeaths.aspx

BTW....who performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Graib?

If you think that taking pictures of men with a dog collar on is "horrendous torture" you certainly better avoid Marine boot camp.

Iraq was stable before we invaded.

Most dictatorships are. Torturing and killing his enemies and gassing his own people made Saddam's Iraq very stable.

Indeed.

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

Funny too that the so called dictator was happily accepted as a puppet for many years....until he decided to quit.Sell oil in Euros etc.

Suddenly Iraq is deemed unstable....We are to believe it was always stable when he was the lap dog of the US though..

This spin machine should write for Aesop's

remember the 50s and 60s reference to latin american or caribbean dictators? "of course he is a bastard but he is OUR bastard!"

The world of international politics is a vast and confusing place. Every government has to choose the lesser of many evils on a regular basis when dealing with other countries and cultures. It would be incredibly naive to claim otherwise.

So, to stop the torturing and killing of innocent civilians, America invaded and tortured and killed innocent civilians, themselves.

Very odd to be smug about that.

If you read the article, you will see that the leaks indeed show there was a lot of torture - by Iraqis on Iraqis - and the Americans were stopping it.

btw - I said in the OP, stopping Wikileaks, nothing about only targeting Assange himself.

Americans were stopping the torture? Or turning a blind eye to it? I think you will find the leaks detail alot more blind eye turniing than stopping.

BTW....who performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Graib?

The Iraqi's under Saddam Hussein's government performed all the horrendous torture in Abu Ghraib.