Another Day, Another Scam

[sharecropper]

The TAT should be ashamed of themselves for not properly highlighting the various scams that can turn Pattaya from a dirt-cheap trip to a sky-high ripoff for many not particularly wealthy new tourists.

As attention focuses on people being jetski'd, people are still being motorbiked.

I saw an upset Indian guy in Soi Post Office today call over a policeman to get involved in a damages argument with a motorbike rental guy, who claimed the Indian had damaged the bike, but the Indian guy vehemently denied it.

There were a few small scratches on it, nothing much, but as I eavesdropped the claim came down from 5,000 baht to 500 once the policeman arrived, but still the guy wasn't having any of it as he claimed he hadn't damaged it.

People really should be forewared about all this when they come here. And the dangers of NOT paying anything in such situations as well!

I have never seen aggressive scamming so bad as I have coming up to this high season.

[JoePai]

Rental m/bikes are not insured - if you rent do so at your own risk !

[FarangBuddha]

Commonsense says that when renting anything (house, car, jetski, moto) anywhere in the world, one does a once-over for any existing damage. This is now even easier to document with cameras in just about every phone. My guess this wasn't done in this case and then it just turns into a case of one man's word against another's.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Edited November 19, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[Jingthing]

500 baht is a fair price to free yourself of a slimy scam, whether you did any damage or not.

[Tolley]

Nothing is fair to pay if you didn't do any damage.

I hate being scammed and I would certainly not pay if I didn't do anything wrong.

BTW In all my years in Thailand I have never rented anything neither have i been knowingly scammed.

In bars a number of times the checkbin has been padded but I always check all the dockets when i have a big bill and have been reimbursed albeit reluctatantly for the errors.

[Jingthing]

Nothing is fair to pay if you didn't do any damage.

I hate being scammed and I would certainly not pay if I didn't do anything wrong.

BTW In all my years in Thailand I have never rented anything neither have i been knowingly scammed.

In bars a number of times the checkbin has been padded but I always check all the dockets when i have a big bill and have been reimbursed albeit reluctatantly for the errors.

I agree nothing is fair to pay if you didn't do anything, but realistically living in Thailand, it helps to keep your sanity to just accept a certain level of corruption and petty theft. It just occurs to me that Indian man was pushing it. Sometimes a lesson learned (don't rent here or take 100 photos, etc.) is worth something.

[sharecropper]

Commonsense says that when renting anything (house, car, jetski, moto) anywhere in the world, one does a once-over for any existing damage. This is now even easier to document with cameras in just about every phone. My guess this wasn't done in this case and then it just turns into a case of one man's word against another's.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Yeah thanks.

Ask yourself, if someone demands 5,000 baht for damage then drops it to 500 baht when the police turn up, what would you call it?

[JUDAS]

Commonsense says that when renting anything (house, car, jetski, moto) anywhere in the world, one does a once-over for any existing damage. This is now even easier to document with cameras in just about every phone. My guess this wasn't done in this case and then it just turns into a case of one man's word against another's.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Yeah thanks.

Ask yourself, if someone demands 5,000 baht for damage then drops it to 500 baht when the police turn up, what would you call it?

In this situation it certainly seems like a rip off if the price drops by 90%.

[OLDAUSSIE]

Sharecropper, that you for posting about this scam. The more members that post about these scams better the chance of it getting out to the tourist.

[Tokay]

If it works for the jet skis, it will work for anything else you rent here.

[RogueExpat]

If it works for the jet skis, it will work for anything else you rent here.

That's a little bit of an open-ended statement for Pattaya isn't it?

[craigt3365]

Rental m/bikes are not insured - if you rent do so at your own risk !

There are places that rent them with full coverage. That's what I did, and what I did when I rented a car here until we purchased one. Made me feel much more comfortable!

[CHdiver]

Thanks God all Tourists comming to Pattaya are innocent Angels and will tell only the truth. They would never do anything wrong and are all Rolemodells for honesty

[olsen]

I once rented a motorbike from the same place in Pattaya, Soi Post Office, right at the corner down to the beach road.

This guy is known to be a notorial scammer!

I rented a bike from him....2 days later it got stolen outside my hotel.

I went to talk to this guy and he demanded 60,000 THB.

I told him to bugger off and then I went to see a lawyer.

The lawyer wrote a note to me in Thai, and I went back to the scammer and handed it over.

He read it and then he said OK, bye bye and then I left.

The lawyer told me that this guy was known for stealing his own rental bikes from his customers and demand a huge compensation.

A few days later I saw "my" motorbike sitting outside the premises of the scammer with the same number plate but it had changed color from Yellow to black

Since then I always use my own padlock when renting a motorbike! At lest it will make it somewhat more difficult for the scammer to steal it!

[craigt3365]

I once rented a motorbike from the same place in Pattaya, Soi Post Office, right at the corner down to the beach road.

This guy is known to be a notorial scammer!

I rented a bike from him....2 days later it got stolen outside my hotel.

I went to talk to this guy and he demanded 60,000 THB.

I told him to bugger off and then I went to see a lawyer.

The lawyer wrote a note to me in Thai, and I went back to the scammer and handed it over.

He read it and then he said OK, bye bye and then I left.

The lawyer told me that this guy was known for stealing his own rental bikes from his customers and demand a huge compensation.

A few days later I saw "my" motorbike sitting outside the premises of the scammer with the same number plate but it had changed color from Yellow to black

Since then I always use my own padlock when renting a motorbike! At lest it will make it somewhat more difficult for the scammer to steal it!

That was the scam on Lombok, when I visited there a few years ago. They would watch your hotel and not let you leave until you had paid big money. Obviously, the cops were in on it also...lots of scams in Lombok.

[FarangBuddha]

Commonsense says that when renting anything (house, car, jetski, moto) anywhere in the world, one does a once-over for any existing damage. This is now even easier to document with cameras in just about every phone. My guess this wasn't done in this case and then it just turns into a case of one man's word against another's.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Do you happen to know the condition of the bike in question before the Indian rented it? If not, then I think it is pure speculation on your part as to whether there was any "scam" taking place.

Yeah thanks.

Ask yourself, if someone demands 5,000 baht for damage then drops it to 500 baht when the police turn up, what would you call it?

Special discount for tourists

[saintofsilence]

Currently the Jet ski Scam tourists have no hope of being treated fairly thread has been closed down so I would like to joint this thread for a while.

This is a summary of the scam on Pattaya Beach and what I have observed including input from other members

Location : The location of these scams that I have observed have mainly been from soi 10 down to the last Jet Ski Business closets to walking st.

It most likely happens higher up the beach but I have not put anytime in their yet.

Evidence : There is now a couple of video clips on youtube and thai visa member reports in this closed thread tourists-have-no-hope-of-being-treated-fairly/page__pid__4036497__st__250#entry4036497

When : All The Time but for sure Everyday with the last lot of the hirings for the day usually in 2 or 3 locations along the whole beach starting at soi 10 down to walking st ,but it aIso happens during the day just follow the jet skis and watch what happens when they come in.

I have stated earlier that anyone who rents a jet ski in this area will be very lucky not to be scammed and it can turn violent.

I saw 7 people being scammed late yesterday in three location the last lot I saw looked like a group of U.S navy guys.

This scam is just robbery they are doing it everyday in front of thousands of people and we seem helpless to assist our own country people from being scammed of thousands of dollars and having thier holidays ruined.

Support if caught up in one of these scams ? There are reports in one of the pattaya papers that tourists police cannot be involved.

In the past 30 days it is not unusual to see 4 to 7 scams a day and there has to be others not noticed.

They pick on groups of people including korean , irainians ,russian,india and anyone else who sits there backside on a jets ski.

From reports over the net seeing what happens the tourist never wins with these scammers , there are reports that the police are supporting the scammers.

I have also observed and white westerner supporting the jet ski operators on several occassions and just recently an old indian man with a turban .

The jet ski operators call these people in it looks as if they are on the payroll also.

How big is this scam : It is huge I have estimated just with my time observing and some research that it could be up to 1 million baht per week.

What can we do to as thai visa members and abiding by the rules of this forum to try and get this scam off pattaya beach because at the moment I don't believe tourists have any support in thailand other than to pay up on something they never did and possibly be assaulted if they don't.

Edited November 21, 2010 by saintofsilence

[saintofsilence]

Edited November 21, 2010 by saintofsilence

[FarangBuddha]

Didn't a thread on these jetski scammers get closed down already??? So you want to get this one closed as well

Edited November 21, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[Jingthing]

Any chance the local authorities (like the Mayor) will "crackdown" on the scammers? It seems to me the more embarrassing publicity, the better, on this topic.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Jingthing

[saintofsilence]

Didn't a thread on these jetski scammers get closed down already??? So you want to get this one closed as well

No I don't want it closed a mod gave me the link .

[jori]

The mayor will be fully aware of it I sure,everybody will be aware of it. Have been in touch with influencial organisations,get them on board ,then there will be results.

Some filth from these scammers threatened me earlier on the other thread about jet skis,just had another PM off the uneducated piece of filth. Wish to hel_l I could get my hands on the scum,but he can rest assured,I am in touch with people that will get you shut down

[Tokay]

If it works for the jet skis, it will work for anything else you rent here.

That's a little bit of an open-ended statement for Pattaya isn't it?

I once rented a motorbike from the same place in Pattaya, Soi Post Office, right at the corner down to the beach road.

This guy is known to be a notorial scammer!

I rented a bike from him....2 days later it got stolen outside my hotel.

I went to talk to this guy and he demanded 60,000 THB.

I told him to bugger off and then I went to see a lawyer.

The lawyer wrote a note to me in Thai, and I went back to the scammer and handed it over.

He read it and then he said OK, bye bye and then I left.

The lawyer told me that this guy was known for stealing his own rental bikes from his customers and demand a huge compensation.

A few days later I saw "my" motorbike sitting outside the premises of the scammer with the same number plate but it had changed color from Yellow to black

Since then I always use my own padlock when renting a motorbike! At lest it will make it somewhat more difficult for the scammer to steal it!

A friend of mine rented from a different location (an Israeli owner) and the bike was stolen. Of course he was told by the owner and police that he had to buy a new bike. My friend pushed the hotel to watch their CCTV and the OWNER was caught on video stealing the bike. That was the end of that.

ALWAYS lie about where your hotel is. Never give them a recent ID (only use expired) and if possible give them a fake one you can order online or have made in a print shop. There is zero reason a Thai should ever know who you really are. They can't extort you if they don't know who you are or where you are.

We are all targets here, act accordingly.

[seefah]

It seems ridiculous that as such an important subject that there is still no pinned 'Scam Warnings' post that consolidates the information highlighted in the 'Jet Ski Scam Out Of Control...' post into an easy to read single post. Instead the post which will remain very relevant until positive action happens to the ones who scam, will soon be unseen as it slips away from the front pages in it's closed state and new topics fill the Pattaya Forum front page.

Wouldn't this be the way to go, to let a scam topic run, then after a period of time, summarise the information and add it to a pinned 'Scam Warnings' post. Makes sense to me.

Its not picking on Thailand, if running the same type of forum broad in another country, you'd expect the same.

There are of course other Pattaya forum boards that also highlight the scam issues, and why not, no one wants to be scammed or even helplessly witness a scam. Everyone seems happy enough to make the information freely available in an attempt to warn others of the scam, yet on this forum there is still no pinned post on scams and the subject that was running in now closed for whatever reason, despite photos showing the scammers and police appearing less than half way through the topic pages.

[seefah]

How big is this scam :

Big enough to have the thread closed about it.

Now with it locked, it will die and move to the back of the forum where it is not easily found. Easier to lock it and let it die because if you delete it everyone knows you were told to take it offline.

This is why there should be a pinned post on scams.

As one topic was closed/locked, another one was started this morning, but soon deleted before it gained too much momentum/exposure. The forum is community driven and that's where its content comes from. If the community want something with a good enough reason for it, it should happen.

Until the Jet Ski Scam topic got closed, I didn't really look at other Thailand/Pattaya forums, now I've discovered there's much more forums and discussions going on, somewhat more active and open too.

[LennyW]

How big is this scam :

Big enough to have the thread closed about it.

Now with it locked, it will die and move to the back of the forum where it is not easily found. Easier to lock it and let it die because if you delete it everyone knows you were told to take it offline.

This is why there should be a pinned post on scams.

As one topic was closed/locked, another one was started this morning, but soon deleted before it gained too much momentum/exposure. The forum is community driven and that's where its content comes from. If the community want something with a good enough reason for it, it should happen.

Until the Jet Ski Scam topic got closed, I didn't really look at other Thailand/Pattaya forums, now I've discovered there's much more forums and discussions going on, somewhat more active and open too.

I think you will find the topics were closed/locked for breach of forum rules, ie: disobeying warnings and discussing moderation, especially the one started this morning. If you have a beef with the content/rules PM a moderator - dont discuss it on the open forum, i think you will find this will help.

It is very important to highlight any "scams" as such, and i am sure that if members can post within the rules then the topics will remain open as they provide a good service.

[saintofsilence]

It seems ridiculous that as such an important subject that there is still no pinned 'Scam Warnings' post that consolidates the information highlighted in the 'Jet Ski Scam Out Of Control...' post into an easy to read single post. Instead the post which will remain very relevant until positive action happens to the ones who scam, will soon be unseen as it slips away from the front pages in it's closed state and new topics fill the Pattaya Forum front page.

Wouldn't this be the way to go, to let a scam topic run, then after a period of time, summarise the information and add it to a pinned 'Scam Warnings' post. Makes sense to me.

Its not picking on Thailand, if running the same type of forum broad in another country, you'd expect the same.

There are of course other Pattaya forum boards that also highlight the scam issues, and why not, no one wants to be scammed or even helplessly witness a scam. Everyone seems happy enough to make the information freely available in an attempt to warn others of the scam, yet on this forum there is still no pinned post on scams and the subject that was running in now closed for whatever reason, despite photos showing the scammers and police appearing less than half way through the topic pages.

Thats a great idea have you put it to the mods yet ?

[saintofsilence]

One thing that really annoys me about these scammers is that they will approach innocent people who really don't want to use the jet ski and then the scammers and talk sweet and innocent and make the price so good that the tourist thinks great I can afford that .

Next the tourist is goes through an ordeal of insults and accusations of damage and is out of pocket.

I really hope the mods can open that thread back up we had momentum and people looking on at thai visa for being a great source of info for travellers and expats especially warnings.

Edited November 21, 2010 by saintofsilence

[saintofsilence]

Let's get back on track. There is another level of authority (Black Mafia) that operates over and above the local authorities. How do you think all the naughty venues stay open? We are talking big money, and if you mess with big money, you can get a whole lot of hurt, and I am not talking about an ass whoopin'. Mind your business, do not display your wealth, and think before you act. Newbs need to learn from these posts because Pattaya has a very dangerous side to it. Where the money and vice exist, the criminal element is omnipresent. So be very careful, ignore the Pattaya apologist's advice, and look at the reams of daily occurring evidence.

I am not sure if the black mafia would be involved with the jet skis but for there is an element of mafia there foe sure ,because by upsetting jet ski customers isn't that like shooting themselves in the foot.

Personally I think that the jet ski mafia would be easier to control than the club mafia.

When people go to there clubs you don't hear to many complaints about people being ripped off.

Edited November 21, 2010 by saintofsilence

[Rimmer]

I have just deleted four posts, discussing moderation, fighting and off topic inflammatory posts.

Let there be no mistake if you want this thread to stay open read the rules before you post In particular take note.

There will be no finger pointing and naming of public or private figures.

There will be no lobbying members to take action of any kind.

Anyone stepping out of line on this thread in anyway shape or form gets to be able to spend a lot of time at the beach and and the thread could be closed.