I don't like to be a tattle tale. It grates on me. I don't like informing on people. I would make a lousy snitch. I could never be a cop.

I am not saying snitches are bad people. I can see they have some deep seated desire to have a strong father figure make the world right. In this case the mod becomes the strong father figure. OK I'm cool with that but I can't do it. Exceptions for dangerous or harmful posts, using a person's real name or legal issues, things like that.

For the sake of order I have no problem requesting a thread be moved. There is obviously a great amount of anti American sentiment on this Thai Visa. I can understand why. But it detracts from the discussion of many issues. It creates a situation where Americans even if they agree become defensive and bogs down everyone. I am sure the mods have better things to do than delete posts over and over again about the same issue.

Wouldn't it be easier just to have an American Bashing forum. You could simply transfer the post there and be done with it. The posters who wanted to bash America would be happy and Americans who were defensive could wallow in a sea of opportunities to be defensive.

A sound idea there, Mark.

Isolate the bad guys with the Yanks and let it happen.

A sound idea there, Mark.

Isolate the bad guys with the Yanks and let it happen.

An American posts in a thread that gorilla tactics won the Revolutionary war as an example of something in a Victor Bout thread.

This is a prime example of one of the shortcomings in the American educational system. They are bad at teaching about the American war for independence.

So if I tell him the real reasons for the American victory against the most powerful nation on earth at the time I will get slugged by 100 more posts about the dire condition of the American educational system.

No country teaches anything but basic history in High School. If you don't go to college you have a slim chance of really being grounded in History. You can read a lot but a professor directing your reading and discussion with other experts in the field is really the only way to get a good understanding.

People spend their entire lives on one battle and the recording of that battle. It is not something one can skim and expect to have an appreciation of.

But the discussion is hindered by the virulent attacks on anything American. I am sure the mods have better things to do.

The same is true of the anti western women bias here. Nothing a woman says stands long before the bashing starts. So they started a female forum. It is understandable and the same logic applies to the anti American posts.

You're having an ironic dig at Outside the Box I guess.

You're having an ironic dig at Outside the Box I guess.

I don't think so. Gf left a couple of weeks ago and I am not getting much sleep so I may be a bit foggy.

You're having an ironic dig at Outside the Box I guess.

I don't think so. Gf left a couple of weeks ago and I am not getting much sleep so I may be a bit foggy.

I'm in favour of a general rant forum....why just the US> Let's not be discriminatory.

No doubt it will help develop better relationships. Same as with the grossly obese and their fattie fetish loving partners slaving over a hot stove.

Yeah great idea

The zero culpability section of the forum

Perhaps there could be an anti

American section

Israeli Section

German Section

Japanese section

Indian Section

Islamic section

Korean Section

African Section

Feel free to cover your axx with any other section you like.

Then anytime a poster/you feels they have no answer to a basic question they can claim bashing of

(insert race/country here) Would that make life easier for you marky?

Your examples of Victor Bout was a lame attempt to quarantine the discussion to a small sector you chose as an example. It was not fair,logical or even possible... so you call it bashing of what ever country used as an example.

Too hot? Stay out of the rhetoric kitchen

The American bashing does not bother me. I am more than willing to take on any American basher.

Theoretical only.

Let's say an Italian bashes America for selling so many weapons. No problem. I can bash the Italian for selling weapons too.

Then we see the sensitivities of the Italian coming to the fore. They flame me. I try to respond without a flame.

But by then all the posts are declared off topic.

The thread is out of control. Again this doesn't bother me but it is against the TV rules. Threats are made and posters and posts disappear.

So the discussion grinds to a halt. The discussion comes grinding to a halt because of flames thrown by each side one being the attacker and the other the defender.

The only answer I can think of is to ignore the anti American posts or move them.

If a poster says America did not participate in WW II. What should be my response?

Personally, I think that you are demonstrating a well known American stereotype of being over-sensitive.

Have a look through the forum at all the Brit-bashing and Aussie bashing thread. Nobody complains because we see it for what it is.....banter. If it isn't banter then why take it personally anyway?

If somebody wants to start a thread bashing the chavs in Britain then fine, it has nothing to do with me. Or stupid uneducated outback Aussies threads don't offend other Aussies. The more you complain and decide that something offends you, the more of a target you make yourself.

Personally, I think that you are demonstrating a well known American stereotype of being over-sensitive.

Have a look through the forum at all the Brit-bashing and Aussie bashing thread. Nobody complains because we see it for what it is.....banter. If it isn't banter then why take it personally anyway?

If somebody wants to start a thread bashing the chavs in Britain then fine, it has nothing to do with me. Or stupid uneducated outback Aussies threads don't offend other Aussies. The more you complain and decide that something offends you, the more of a target you make yourself.

Have you looked at the Victor Bout threads? I can't count the number of warnings and posts deleted.

I am not criticizing the mods or the TV rules in the least. But it is almost impossible to have a sane discussion with the weird things being thrown from left field.

I am sure the mods have better things to do than playing room monster to a bunch of children.

Bring back corporal punishment and all the other thing wot made Britain great!

Oh....hang on....its not.....its capital punishment right?

Corporal bad....capital good.

I get so confused.

Mark, if you are referring to threads in the news section then you'll struggle to have any kind of discussion in that part of the forum. Most of us just keep out of there, I stopped reading it a long time ago.

I understand where you are coming from, Mark, but I think Smokie's idea of a general "RANT" thread would be more appropriate. Then it could include all hot topics where nobody agrees with anyone. Or there are serious pros against the serious cons.

I also agree that it should be kept in Bedlam where you have to have a reasonable amount of decorum and knowledge about a subject. There are still replies on other forums that need to be deleted and the poster given a warning or banned.

There is a politics sub-forum on an American fishing forum I'm a member of. Most of the members are staunch Republicans, but a few are Democrats. The bashing is kept to a minimum, but there are some heated discussions. I tend to stay out of those battles because I've never seen ANY politician that I cared for. There MIGHT have been a few good ones, somewhere in some country, but none that I can recall.

I agree with Moonie.

If kiwi bashing comes along, I have a laff and reply in kind.

Ockors and Kiwis have been at each other for as long as...........

Banter has seemingly gone out of the window in recent times, sorry to say.

Good repartee was the life of Bedlam, hope it returns.

Smokie's idea of a general "RANT" thread could be fun, but smallminded people will prevail.

What hope have we?

I agree with Moonie.

If kiwi bashing comes along, I have a laff and reply in kind.

Ockors and Kiwis have been at each other for as long as...........

Banter has seemingly gone out of the window in recent times, sorry to say.

Good repartee was the life of Bedlam, hope it returns.

Smokie's idea of a general "RANT" thread could be fun, but smallminded people will prevail.

What hope have we?

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This is only a partial list that I have posted in.

Perhaps you could list the current Kiwi bashing threads.

Is this is what's known as a pregnant silence?

I've just had a quick browse through a couple of those threads and what I see isn't American bashing.

What I see is criticism aimed at America, which seems to hit the uber-sensitive nerves of some Americans who seem to take it personally. A lot of the stuff seems quite reasonable.

Start a thread about Britain's involvement in Iraq and it won't be long before somebody says that we were a mere lapdog to Bush. You won't get many complaining and taking it personally, if anything you will find Brits agreeing and joining in. Even cracking jokes about it.

It isn't "bashing" per-say, it is criticism and regardless of what some people may think, America is not above criticism.

I've just had a quick browse through a couple of those threads and what I see isn't American bashing.

What I see is criticism aimed at America, which seems to hit the uber-sensitive nerves of some Americans who seem to take it personally. A lot of the stuff seems quite reasonable.

Start a thread about Britain's involvement in Iraq and it won't be long before somebody says that we were a mere lapdog to Bush. You won't get many complaining and taking it personally, if anything you will find Brits agreeing and joining in. Even cracking jokes about it.

It isn't "bashing" per-say, it is criticism and regardless of what some people may think, America is not above criticism.

The bashing posts have been removed. I don't mind criticism. But you can't respond to the criticism without going off topic. That is the catch 22.

If I was so inclined to go trolling through the forums to get a reaction, I would choose a US bashing thread every time. The reason: I KNOW that I will get a bite every time and without fail. Even sometimes when it is not intended you will get a bite.

Even the football forum had to be cleaned up during the world cup because some of the American posters that took an interest in the sport during the world cup were simply not compatible with the conversations going on. Threads about football degenerated into anti/pro American arguments because the slightest joke or comment got blown up way out of proportion. I have never before seen any kind of moderation in that forum before and doubt that I will again.

That forum is often full of anti Scottish/French/German/English etc comments because of the history and rivalries involved but you never get a single complaint..... until a certain other nation shows up.

I don't care if people say that Blair is a prat, it has no bearing on me whatsoever. You wont find a nation that laughs about Phil the Greek more than us Brits do. Again it has no bearing on us as individuals whatsoever.

Likewise if people think that America is a country full of ignorant/stupid people, what bearing does that have on any American individual if they don't fit that stereotype? So bloody what?..... Britain is full of chavs, it doesn't make me a chav, innit bruv!

But again, we are talking mainly about the news section here. Discussions in that part of the forum are, in my opinion, a waste of bandwidth.

If I was so inclined to go trolling through the forums to get a reaction, I would choose a US bashing thread every time. The reason: I KNOW that I will get a bite every time and without fail. Even sometimes when it is not intended you will get a bite.

Even the football forum had to be cleaned up during the world cup because some of the American posters that took an interest in the sport during the world cup were simply not compatible with the conversations going on. Threads about football degenerated into anti/pro American arguments because the slightest joke or comment got blown up way out of proportion. I have never before seen any kind of moderation in that forum before and doubt that I will again.

That forum is often full of anti Scottish/French/German/English etc comments because of the history and rivalries involved but you never get a single complaint..... until a certain other nation shows up.

I don't care if people say that Blair is a prat, it has no bearing on me whatsoever. You wont find a nation that laughs about Phil the Greek more than us Brits do. Again it has no bearing on us as individuals whatsoever.

Likewise if people think that America is a country full of ignorant/stupid people, what bearing does that have on any American individual if they don't fit that stereotype? So bloody what?..... Britain is full of chavs, it doesn't make me a chav, innit bruv!

I guess I am not explaining myself clearly. I don't mind the anti American posts. I don't want to eliminate them.

I want to move them so they don't derail discussion about a particular issue.

If the anti American posts are on topic. Great. Then I can respond to them and stay on topic. No harm no foul.

But that is not the case 90% of the time. 90% of the time the anti American posts are off topic and if I respond to them I will get thrown off TV like the baby with the bath water. You can't expect a mod to sift through all the posts to determine who started it and who is only responding.

What gripes me is I have to read the anti American posts but I can't refute them without getting in trouble.

So move them to an anti American forum so they can continue and I can respond in kind.

If someone makes an anti American post to no point I should be able to refute that. The fact that the post is anti American does not bother me in the least. If it is wrong I should be able to correct that error. As it stands now I can't do that.

I see what you are getting at now mark, I got the wrong end of the stick earlier. Excuse me if I am being a bit dense, I had too many Leo's and nasty whiskey last night.

Again though, all the examples you have mentioned are in the news clipping forum. Many in there are so rabidly clambering over each other to be heard the loudest and to appear the cleverest, discussion becomes futile. It doesn't matter even if you have a very good, accurate and valid point. Everybody in the news section is so busy trying to say what they want to say, because they believe that their's is the only valid argument, that anybody else's opinion is wasted.

I don't think moving posts to a different section as you suggest would work. You'd just have the same old people going on and on in circles. I kind of like the news clipping section as it is because I know to just not go there. Let's keep them in there, kind of in self-imposed quarantine, rather than moving them about to other parts of the forum.

If I was a mod in that part of TV I'd likely just put all of them on long holidays and be done with it. But then that's why I'm unlikely to ever be a mod (not that I'd want to be)

I see what you are getting at now mark, I got the wrong end of the stick earlier.

Again though, all the examples you have mentioned are in the news clipping forum. Many in there are so rabidly clambering over each other to be heard the loudest and to appear the cleverest, discussion becomes futile. It doesn't matter even if you have a very good, accurate and valid point. Everybody in the news section is so busy trying to say what they want to say, because they believe that their's is the only valid argument, that anybody else's opinion is wasted.

If I was a mod in that part of TV I'd likely just put all of them on long holidays and be done with it. But then that's why I'm unlikely to ever be a mod (not that I'd want to be)

I agree I don't envy their jobs.

I agree with Moonie.

If kiwi bashing comes along, I have a laff and reply in kind.

Ockors and Kiwis have been at each other for as long as...........

Banter has seemingly gone out of the window in recent times, sorry to say.

Good repartee was the life of Bedlam, hope it returns.

Smokie's idea of a general "RANT" thread could be fun, but smallminded people will prevail.

What hope have we?

Perhaps you could list the current Kiwi bashing threads.

There is seldom any Kiwi bashing (other than the usual Aussie- Kiwi banter) because just like Canadian we are seldom on the world stage of changing things. We just like our safe little world and try to stay out of the spotlight... other than to lose a few hockey games to the Yanks. Or, in the case of the Kiwis, shag a few sheep.

Crickey, a Swindonite Mod, I would last about 5 minutes.

Mind you, they would put you top of the class though moonie

I agree with Moonie.

If kiwi bashing comes along, I have a laff and reply in kind.

Ockors and Kiwis have been at each other for as long as...........

Banter has seemingly gone out of the window in recent times, sorry to say.

Good repartee was the life of Bedlam, hope it returns.

Smokie's idea of a general "RANT" thread could be fun, but smallminded people will prevail.

What hope have we?

Perhaps you could list the current Kiwi bashing threads.

There is seldom any Kiwi bashing (other than the usual Aussie- Kiwi banter) because just like Canadian we are seldom on the world stage of changing things. We just like our safe little world and try to stay out of the spotlight... other than to lose a few hockey games to the Yanks. Or, in the case of the Kiwis, shag a few sheep.

Canada was so much more exciting when PET was there. That's when I lived in Canada. Showing my age.

I see what you are getting at now mark, I got the wrong end of the stick earlier. Excuse me if I am being a bit dense, I had too many Leo's and nasty whiskey last night.

Again though, all the examples you have mentioned are in the news clipping forum. Many in there are so rabidly clambering over each other to be heard the loudest and to appear the cleverest, discussion becomes futile. It doesn't matter even if you have a very good, accurate and valid point. Everybody in the news section is so busy trying to say what they want to say, because they believe that their's is the only valid argument, that anybody else's opinion is wasted.

I don't think moving posts to a different section as you suggest would work. You'd just have the same old people going on and on in circles. I kind of like the news clipping section as it is because I know to just not go there. Let's keep them in there, kind of in self-imposed quarantine, rather than moving them about to other parts of the forum.

If I was a mod in that part of TV I'd likely just put all of them on long holidays and be done with it. But then that's why I'm unlikely to ever be a mod (not that I'd want to be)

I think most non-Americans would agree with you that it is not US bashing per se but over-reaction and hypersensitivity on the part of the Americans.

Case in point is this thread, where what you have rightly described as criticism is labelled US bashing by Marky.

So, to the OP and the general idea, the new forum should not be an anti-US forum populated by US bashers,,,,,,logically it should be called the Defend the US forum and be populated by over-sensitive defenders of the stars and stripes.

Are Americans generally too sensitive? Maybe the whinging & whining gets old after the1000th time? Or maybe Americans - like 2-3 other nationalities that come to mind - don't shy away from confrontation. Many nationalities will avoid confrontation, stare at the ground and be silent and call it a virtue. Others don't.

If one had not real 1,000s of bashing posts - over many years - by the same old band of bashers, one might actually buy this Americans are overly sensitive B.S.

i know of at least one poster that likes to call people sheeple yet this same poster bantters the same worn out bs as the anti bush crowd, every time i read his post i ask myself is this guy real or just a sheeple.