Aussie 'Attacked' By Thai Elephant Guide

[mamborobert]

Just came across this Chiang Mai piece in an Oz news page.

Biggest problem I ever had with feeding elephants in town is that the pollution cannot be good for the younger elephants, also the amout of sugar cane type products being fed to the young would I imagine not be beneficial in the long term.

I wonder how long any "crackdown" will last? Then again I doubt one will even start

AN enraged Thai elephant trainer beat an Australian tourist with a hooked stick after the man criticised him for using elephants to milk cash from tourists, Thai police said.

Kingsley William, 41, suffered cuts to his arm, head and ear when the elephant trainer and guide, known as a mahout, attacked him with a hook used for controlling elephants in the northern Thai city of Chiang Mai.

An Australian woman, Kim Kavanagh, 31, was injured when she went to Mr William's aid.

Reports in Bangkok said the mahout, Bancha Niyomsakul, attacked Mr William after the Australian accused him of exploiting elephants to beg for money.

Thai police said Bancha became angry when the Australian tourists refused to buy bananas for the elephants, and the two men argued with Mr Niyomsakul lashing out at Mr William.

Elephants are regularly brought to tourist areas where mahouts ask passersby to buy bananas for the elephants.

Bags of bananas cost about 75 Australian cents or 20 baht.

But foreign tourists are often critical of the practice, seen as a form of begging.

Mr William and Ms Kavanagh were not hospitalised following the incident and continued on their travels.

Thai tourism authorities and police have launched crackdowns against practice of bringing elephants into cities and towns.

Tourist and local police were not immediately available for comment.

In Thailand the captive elephant population is estimated at around 2000, with a further 2000 still living in the wild.

The Forest Industry Organisation which oversees an elephant rehabilitation centre in northern Thailand estimates the Thai elephant population is declining by a rate of three per cent a year.

The elephants are largely known for working in the forest and logging industries. But an end to forest concessions in recent decades has led to many elephants being put to work in the tourist industry.

Edited December 14, 2010 by mamborobert

[PostmanPat]

Almost had the same problem last Friday evening near the Imperial Mae Ping Hotel, we refused to buy bananas/ sugar cane and complained at the mistreatment of the young Elephant, and the thuggy looking guy got really pissed off. We actually commented that he looked like he wanted to hit somebody, presumably later he did!

Its well known that walking long distances on tarmac roads seriously damages a poor Elephants pads under the feet.

Its also well known that despite saying they care, the Police do NOTHING to these people. It goes on daily in Chiang Mai, and I ve seen Police chatting in a friendly manner to these Thug Mahouts and doing nothing, other than presumably picking up their share of the profits.

What can we do? Any ideas welcomed.

[Ta22]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

[rizla]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Sorry, but what a load of chang shit....

i frequently see mahoots, flower sellers, and the like getting a bit lively when a farang and not just a tourist either, wont buy from them, even when you speak thai nicely to them (mia aow khrub)..

I make a point of not buying,

one, i`m not a tourist,

two, i hate what the changs are made to do....

three, and i always drive past any incidents on the road...remember if you stop, NOT always, BUT at some point YOU will be deemed the person who caused it....

Sorry mate you need to wake up....

[gotlost]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Agree with you on this Ta22. This guy most have been related to ascertain Oz red shirt supporter that was not to bright in BK a while back.

[Ta22]

i drive alots in thailand and i stop alots when there is trouble .

the reason i slow down is to prevent more accident . and if i stop , i meant to help if there is a accident ,

look at it this way . the flower seller come pess you to buy their flower the farang seller place ads on TV while you watching a Nice , is just different marketing way which you feel is not right .

we all find all kinda excuse when we feel that our surrounding need to suit us .

why not try to adjust yourself to suit the surrounding .

if you pity the elephants DO something about it .

ranting on the online is not improve anyone or the elephant life

[philw]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Think you are right.

Where is the problem?

[ctrunfree]

i drive alots in thailand and i stop alots when there is trouble .

the reason i slow down is to prevent more accident . and if i stop , i meant to help if there is a accident ,

look at it this way . the flower seller come pess you to buy their flower the farang seller place ads on TV while you watching a Nice , is just different marketing way which you feel is not right .

we all find all kinda excuse when we feel that our surrounding need to suit us .

why not try to adjust yourself to suit the surrounding .

if you pity the elephants DO something about it .

ranting on the online is not improve anyone or the elephant life

Sorry, can't see what this post has to do with the subject of cruelty to animals...good on the guy for telling the mahout like it is- not something i would do of course, preferring a quiet life...

[coma]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Tourists have just as much right to enter Thailand as you do. They also have just as much right to an opinion about any personnel experiences they come across here as you do. They also have the right to express their pleasure or displeasure [lawfully] about Thailand as you do.

Living here for "10+years" equals what? . Shame on you.

Edited December 14, 2010 by coma

[philw]

three, and i always drive past any incidents on the road...remember if you stop, NOT always, BUT at some point YOU will be deemed the person who caused it....

.

Wow, you are not able to stop at an accident even if you can assist......

Hope you never have a problem, your Kharma ( a thai word word for past indifference to the plight of others ) never gets you.......

[PlanetX]

This is one the sickest forms of blatant animal cruelty

Hopefully tourists are starting to understand this and continue to refuse to support and also speak out against this practice

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

The fact that this "practice" is rewared by being allowed to parade them down the street speaks VOLUMES

Is it really worth a few baht in pay-off money to allow elephants to be brutally tortured like this?

I guess as long as there are beautiful statues of elephants in front of important buildings then its all right

Edited December 14, 2010 by PlanetX

[PlanetX]

i drive alots in thailand and i stop alots when there is trouble .

the reason i slow down is to prevent more accident . and if i stop , i meant to help if there is a accident ,

look at it this way . the flower seller come pess you to buy their flower the farang seller place ads on TV while you watching a Nice , is just different marketing way which you feel is not right .

we all find all kinda excuse when we feel that our surrounding need to suit us .

why not try to adjust yourself to suit the surrounding .

if you pity the elephants DO something about it .

ranting on the online is not improve anyone or the elephant life

every one of your comments ends in criticizing people for commenting online

creating awareness of the situation is the first step in "doing something"

[Johpa]

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

<deleted>! Most of the larger elephant camps abandoned such cruelty long ago.

[PlanetX]

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

<deleted>! Most of the larger elephant camps abandoned such cruelty long ago.

Do you even know what we are talking about?

[sbk]

Suggest we drop the attacks on members whose opinions we don't agree with before it becomes necessary to issue warnings and/or suspensions.

cheers

[sbk]

A post has been deleted. Please read my very public warning about attacks on members, thanks. Next one will earn a formal warning.

[katana]

I was reading a bit about that yesterday in Thairath (with pictures). Apparently the couple were taken to Chiang Mai's Central Memorial hospital after they were attacked with chains and hooks outside a beer bar in Loi Kraw Rd by a group of 5 itinerant mahouts. Kingsly William, 26, had to have a head X-ray to check for bleeding on the brain. Kim Kavanagh, 31, had injuries to her left forefinger.

Police arrested 3 of the mahouts and they've been taken to Chiang Mai police station awaiting identification by the unfortunate couple.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/133731

[rizla]

I was reading a bit about that yesterday in Thairath (with pictures). Apparently the couple were taken to Chiang Mai's Central Memorial hospital after they were attacked with chains and hooks outside a beer bar in Loi Kraw Rd by a group of 5 itinerant mahouts. Kingsly William, 26, had to have a head X-ray to check for bleeding on the brain. Kim Kavanagh, 31, had injuries to her left forefinger.

Police arrested 3 of the mahouts and they've been taken to Chiang Mai police station awaiting identification by the unfortunate couple.

http://www.thairath....t/region/133731

Well done the police, i hope they get the other two....sticks and stones may(will) break my bones ,but names will never hurt me.....five onto one , out standing, all for 20bhat....sad

[bangkokcitylimits]

see this website and understand why the elephant is a sacred animal...

(cynical)

http://helpthaielephants.com/

[roger1999]

I was in a bar not one week ago when I saw a drunk tourist complain about the treatment of the elephants used for begging. The Thai guy left and returned a minute later with a stick and threatened the tourist. Not a pretty sight but no one got injured.

Edited December 14, 2010 by roger1999

[stkyricesf]

i had met this guys that walk theit Pet elephants around town selling Food for the elephants or like 13-14 years now .

i did not know how many i reject in my 10+ years in chiangmai . not once had i seen any nasty looking or gangster like punk trying to force anyone buy their fruit .

.

My question would be .

Why Tourist is alway like a Magnet for toruble ?

i go around with a camera every days looking like a tourist and i refuse all elephants trainer or begger or flower seller .

i eat out average 3-4 time a week . every time i eat out i will for sure meet up with either a elephants or a flower seller .

but not once had i seen anyone get nasty at anyone .

So in my view i would just read up with a touch of Salt . to session it .

.

The first Rule for being a Tourist i perosnally feel is Be a tourist and mind your Own business .

Unless trouble come find you . is best to keep your comment to yourself especially if you do not even speak thai .

not a wise move .

Hear Hear, I totally agree with your assessment. :jap:

[blue eyes]

This is Thailand and not some western country.It has some dogooders(real word or not)that want to save Thailand from what they see as bad.I see all the time some westerners that comes to Thailand that wish to force their own ideas on the Thai people.Get a life.This is not your country go home and fix your own country that is probably a lot more "broken" then Thailand will ever be.Looking at the videos and the news clips that I have been able to find on this type of incident it seems to be the making of the westerner that caused the problem to begin with.I guess you could say, som nam nay.

[CMX]

Earlier threads have revealed more light than smoke. There are of course two essential problems.

The first is that the forests (jungles) are being quickly reduced so that the elephant population is similarly reduced until they achieve the endangered status.

The second is that the work by which they earned their food (those in captivity) is disappearing. Elephants eat an enormous amount of vegetation.

So what are we to do? Complaining to the mahout or police is hardly going to solve the problem (saving perhaps observed cruelty). Thailand is hard pressed to offer medical care for its people.

The issue of training methods has also been discussed. No blanket statement is correct, as camps differ in their practices. It seems to me that every complaint calls upon Thailand for resources (money) that might also be used to improve the human condition. Solutions anyone?

For example, assuming that the camp is know for its "humane" care of its charges, is it not OK to pay to watch elephants do tricks (that some of us feel are demeaning)?

Edited December 14, 2010 by CMX

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The fascinating question for me is if someone debriefed the Mahout who is in Jail. Does he think he did anything wrong? My guess and it's only a guess but he might be puzzled by why he is in jail because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

After all he has learned probably from generation to generation to handle problems with a stick... If an elephant doesn't comply then he whacks it.. Probably how he deals with other problems also.

The primitive world meets the modern world. The encroaching modern world must seem very bizarre and alien to these simple folks.

[ctrunfree]

Regardless of one's views on the wisdom of the tourists response, I think we could agree that its something CM's tourist industry could have done without. Its all over the Australian papers, and is now appearing on a number of international travel forums..

[slapout]

The fascinating question for me is if someone debriefed the Mahout who is in Jail. Does he think he did anything wrong? My guess and it's only a guess but he might be puzzled by why he is in jail because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

After all he has learned probably from generation to generation to handle problems with a stick... If an elephant doesn't comply then he whacks it.. Probably how he deals with other problems also.

The primitive world meets the modern world. The encroaching modern world must seem very bizarre and alien to these simple folks.

Doubt this man from the primitive world just came in out of the bush. I have seen elephants on the ring road in the meridian lane right at dusk. They moved onto a vacant lot which I can see from the balcony, until the owner ran them off. This handler (loosely used term) was probably on yaa baa which I understand is fed to elephants also, and he went berserk over some real or imagined slight by a tourist. The ordinance passed to keep elephants out of town, off the roads, and out of hams way was for a good reason, too bad it is being ignored again.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The fascinating question for me is if someone debriefed the Mahout who is in Jail. Does he think he did anything wrong? My guess and it's only a guess but he might be puzzled by why he is in jail because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

After all he has learned probably from generation to generation to handle problems with a stick... If an elephant doesn't comply then he whacks it.. Probably how he deals with other problems also.

The primitive world meets the modern world. The encroaching modern world must seem very bizarre and alien to these simple folks.

Doubt this man from the primitive world just came in out of the bush. I have seen elephants on the ring road in the meridian lane right at dusk. They moved onto a vacant lot which I can see from the balcony, until the owner ran them off. This handler (loosely used term) was probably on yaa baa which I understand is fed to elephants also, and he went berserk over some real or imagined slight by a tourist. The ordinance passed to keep elephants out of town, off the roads, and out of hams way was for a good reason, too bad it is being ignored again.

you might be right about the Ya ba and ensuing paranoia and violence that can bring... But just because someone camps in town on a vacant lot doesn't make them sophisticated or having city social concepts. Have you seen how these handlers dress? I have seen a few who look like they are from a tarzan movie.

[ctrunfree]

The fascinating question for me is if someone debriefed the Mahout who is in Jail. Does he think he did anything wrong? My guess and it's only a guess but he might be puzzled by why he is in jail because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

After all he has learned probably from generation to generation to handle problems with a stick... If an elephant doesn't comply then he whacks it.. Probably how he deals with other problems also.

The primitive world meets the modern world. The encroaching modern world must seem very bizarre and alien to these simple folks.

Doubt this man from the primitive world just came in out of the bush. I have seen elephants on the ring road in the meridian lane right at dusk. They moved onto a vacant lot which I can see from the balcony, until the owner ran them off. This handler (loosely used term) was probably on yaa baa which I understand is fed to elephants also, and he went berserk over some real or imagined slight by a tourist. The ordinance passed to keep elephants out of town, off the roads, and out of hams way was for a good reason, too bad it is being ignored again.

you might be right about the Ya ba and ensuing paranoia and violence that can bring... But just because someone camps in town on a vacant lot doesn't make them sophisticated or having city social concepts. Have you seen how these handlers dress? I have seen a few who look like they are from a tarzan movie.

They obviously were educated enough to understand what the tourist said to them (presumably in English)

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The fascinating question for me is if someone debriefed the Mahout who is in Jail. Does he think he did anything wrong? My guess and it's only a guess but he might be puzzled by why he is in jail because he doesn't think he did anything wrong.

After all he has learned probably from generation to generation to handle problems with a stick... If an elephant doesn't comply then he whacks it.. Probably how he deals with other problems also.

The primitive world meets the modern world. The encroaching modern world must seem very bizarre and alien to these simple folks.

Doubt this man from the primitive world just came in out of the bush. I have seen elephants on the ring road in the meridian lane right at dusk. They moved onto a vacant lot which I can see from the balcony, until the owner ran them off. This handler (loosely used term) was probably on yaa baa which I understand is fed to elephants also, and he went berserk over some real or imagined slight by a tourist. The ordinance passed to keep elephants out of town, off the roads, and out of hams way was for a good reason, too bad it is being ignored again.

you might be right about the Ya ba and ensuing paranoia and violence that can bring... But just because someone camps in town on a vacant lot doesn't make them sophisticated or having city social concepts. Have you seen how these handlers dress? I have seen a few who look like they are from a tarzan movie.

They obviously were educated enough to understand what the tourist said to them (presumably in English)

I wouldn't say that is obvious. They might have been set off by the tone and attitude of the tourists and understood little about the words...

[LJW]

Sounds like a bullshit story to me. My advice?

Support the elephants if you see them.

20 baht in bananas isn't too much to ask for.