After 15 Years In Thailand And Going Back To The Us

[mca]

Personally, I would prefer more of a safety net.

I agree. One of my major concerns is in the event of an accident. Back home it'll be a 999 call answered within seconds and a fully equipped ambulance blazing it's way through traffic to my aid. I remember on my last visit home I was walking through my local provincial city centre and a bloke got knocked off a bicycle. Somebody called 999 and I swear within 2 minutes a paramedic on a BMW motorcycle pulled up.

Here? Well.....

[MJP]

Personally, I would prefer more of a safety net.

I agree. One of my major concerns is in the event of an accident. Back home it'll be a 999 call answered within seconds and a fully equipped ambulance blazing it's way through traffic to my aid. I remember on my last visit home I was walking through my local provincial city centre and a bloke got knocked off a bicycle. Somebody called 999 and I swear within 2 minutes a paramedic on a BMW motorcycle pulled up.

Here? Well.....

.....you'd get put in an ambulance and taken to hospital. Even here in the sticks, it's not that backward.

[mca]

You'd get lumped in the back of a knackered Nissan Big M with hardly any medical equipment as the untrained driver thinks that the ropey old flashing light bodged on top of the cab gives him carte blanche to drive exactly as he feels and dam_n the consequences. Of course if it's a "real" ambulance when it eventually arrived you run the risk of shuffling off this great world of ours as you sit at a traffic light because nobody will give way for you despite the blues and twos.

[ronz28]

Life is good in the USA if you select a good place to live. We have lived in Clear Lake City in Houston and guided men to the moon and back. Yes, some parts of Houston are complete ghettos and technologically lacking but it all depends on where you live in an area. Houston has the oil and chemical industries and a lot of blue collar jobs so there is a wide variety of places to live. Some places we have lived/ been to are nicer than than others all around due to the type of jobs there like Austin, beautiful South Florida, beautiful Maui, Maryland etc. Schools and neighborhood quality vary widely in most places in the US. I have found that the amount of property taxes, state income taxes, city income taxes and sales taxes often don't buy better schools, roads, parks, etc. Quality of life depends more on the ingenuity, integrity, income levels and ethics of the citizens, government employees and government oversight boards living/working in that area.

I can't agree that life is better in Thailand than the US based on my experience... its just different and depends on where you live. No way is Thailand more technologically advanced than the US. There are at least 6 ATM machines within a block of my house, internet Speed is very fast and totally reliable, LED HDTV, cable TV, Netflix and DVR gives me more excellent quality TV programming than I have time to watch, Verizon is starting up their 4G LTE service today, and smartphones and cars are as advanced as you want to pay for. Malls that I go to are very nice, smell good, with no pollution inside or outside. Our water is clean from the tap but we filter it anyways, food is wonderful in the restaurants we know, and appliances are excellent quality. I am not aware of any more advanced technology Thailand has over what's available where I live in the US. If you are not seeing what you want where you are in the US, then you can move to where its at.

[phuketrichard]

I travel back to the states at least every 18 months or so and love it for the short time there.

I love how i can see the things i want to buy and not be told dont have,

love to order food I want and get what I order.

The choice of beer and wine at affordable working class prices.

the selection of BOOKS!!

the ablity to travel and NOT see tuk tuk's

to walk donwn the street and not be asked if i want a suit

and even thou many would disagree shopping for groceries is cheaper in America (unless u ONLY buy thai pork and chicken)

Peaches and cherries

and i agree, if u had the cash where would u want ur kids to grow up and attend university. The states or LOS, ( no idea why they call it that as its not anymore.

24+ years here but for none of the reasons KRS1 mentions ( except i love the street food and wish I could get Beer Lao here in Phuket!!

BUT with all that in mind i find i need to move back this july for a year so my daughter can do her senior year in HS there in beautiful Napa valley. Am sure after a month of i will want to return to Thailand BUT knowing its only a year that i wil be away i will take advantage of all america has to offer and Napa valley is not to shabby a place to Live :-)

[Chunky1]

The biggest safety threat is falling off a balcony during Spring Break.

[Rumpole]

but who wants to live in Burma or Cambodia or a Muslim country with all the restrictions?

I, along with many other Western and Asian expats, live quite happily in Cambodia, which we generally find considerably more welcoming to foreigners than Thailand.

As to your constant harping about Muslim countries, have you ever actually lived in one? Thought not.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Rumpole

[Chunky1]

I would love to live in a place that forbids females to show any skin besides that small patch around their eye balls. It leaves more to the imagination.

[MJP]

I would love to live in a place that forbids females to show any skin besides that small patch around their eye balls. It leaves more to the imagination.

:jap:

[tjrd12]

I too am a Texas, but from Ft Worth and have lived in Thailand for 11 years...made my first trip back to Ft Worth and Austin in 5 1/2 yrs last Oct and must say I was VERY surprised at what I found...I was DREADING the trip back but found that aside from the lack of available Asian women, just about EVERYTHING else in the US is superior...This is from the view of someone who has lived in BKK for 11 yrs...I KNOW it is cheaper upcountry and I plan to join you CNX guys at some point, but for now my biz is in BKK.

1st- People are FAR nicer back home...I live in Central BKK and what used to a very nice friendly place has turned into a much more stand offish if not mean environment. Suk 3-13 are awful, with the changing demographics and copious amounts of trash on the street.

2nd- Cost of living is FAR cheaper in the US (central BKK is about 100% more then when I moved here)...well, if you want to live in a 7k baht a month cement box, eat street food, and drink the local swill then Thailand is the place, but if you want to have ANY semblance of a Western lifestyle then TX is FAR cheaper. A Hein beer at 7/11 in LOS is 41 bath...that is 8.50 a 6 pack...I can buy a 6 of GREAT micro-brew for 7.50 in the US...Clothing, MUCH cheaper in the US for anything of quality...rents, my father rents a beautiful 1200 sq ft 2 bdr 2 ba with wood floors, marble counters, and stainless appliances for 850 USD a month...my SMALL 2/2 in central BKK is 780 USD and it PALES in comparison to his...Cable is cheaper and better, FOOD is cheaper and of higher quality...a hamburger at the Londoner is 11.50...and don't forget the portion size in the US is HUGE, you can easily feed two.

3rd- Cleanliness- BKK is filthy, most places here are. Trash is strewn all over, noise and air pollution rule the day

4th- Technology better in Thailand?? Give me a break, the US has 4g for cell phones, MANY HD channels, faster internet, etc, etc, etc...far better and cheaper then LOS.

As I said, if you want to live like a local it is cheap...BUT I moved here because I could live like a king for less then the US...not the case anymore...

I could go on and on...will start spending 3 to 4 months a year in the states..

[Jingthing]

Bangkok is a major world capital. Compare Bangkok to Washington D.C. or New York for prices, maybe Texas to Udon Thani.

Next ...

Edited January 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

As I said, if you want to live like a local it is cheap...BUT I moved here because I could live like a king for less then the US...not the case anymore...

You do not have to live like a local to live here much more reasonably than in the US, but you do have to adapt to where you are living. First off, I would move out of Bangkok as - IMHO - it is much cheaper (and more pleasant) to live in other parts of the country.

[MJP]

Bangkok is a major world capital. Compare Bangkok to Washington D.C. or New York for prices, maybe Texas to Udon Thani.

Next ...

Besides I think the US is lining itself up to be the next Weimar or Zimbabwe.

[mca]

You've got to compare like for like haven't you? Take property. If we for the moment forget about comparing a 5 bedroom penthouse with private pool overlooking Rajamdamri with an old moonshiners shack in Buttf#ck Alabama and come up to my neck of the woods you'll find a 15 million baht house that my sister in laws boss is building that would make Tony Montana green with envy.

[Heng]

One thing I like better back home is the less obvious social posturing when you meet people. Here there's always that (somewhat) awkward 'weigh in' to see who is bigger/heavier/wealthier/more connected/etc. that will pretty much define the rest of the relationship.

[MJP]

One thing I like better back home is the less obvious social posturing when you meet people. Here there's always that (somewhat) awkward 'weigh in' to see who is bigger/heavier/wealthier/more connected/etc. that will pretty much define the rest of the relationship.

Awkward or just down right dull?

I do have Thai friends that don't do this, at all. They are well off, not rich. But both lived over a decade in the West.

So dunno. It does seem to be the norm.

[pampal]

When I go back LA for the yearly visit, I gorge on excellent Mexican Food and visit family and friends. After a couple of weeks I miss my life in Thailand and China. That's the way it is.

[IanForbes]

but who wants to live in Burma or Cambodia or a Muslim country with all the restrictions?

I, along with many other Western and Asian expats, live quite happily in Cambodia, which we generally find considerably more welcoming to foreigners than Thailand.

As to your constant harping about Muslim countries, have you ever actually lived in one? Thought not.

What constant harping about Muslim countries. You're confusing me with someone else. Obviously, Islam seems to work for a few billion people. Women can be treated like sex slaves and get no medical treatment. Men rule the roost. I know men who choose to work in coal mines in terrible conditions. But, given a choice, most of us would pick something different. Some men are happy speaking to nobody and drink beer all day. I also know men who actually enjoy war and killing people. It's like a giant, but real video game. There is something for everyone in this world. Just go look for it. It's there somewhere. I could add North Korea to the list. There are a few million people there as well. I'm sure some of them are happy. Same with Somalia and east Africa.

[StreetCowboy]

but who wants to live in Burma or Cambodia or a Muslim country with all the restrictions?

I, along with many other Western and Asian expats, live quite happily in Cambodia, which we generally find considerably more welcoming to foreigners than Thailand.

As to your constant harping about Muslim countries, have you ever actually lived in one? Thought not.

What constant harping about Muslim countries. You're confusing me with someone else. Obviously, Islam seems to work for a few billion people. Women can be treated like sex slaves and get no medical treatment. Men rule the roost. I know men who choose to work in coal mines in terrible conditions. But, given a choice, most of us would pick something different. Some men are happy speaking to nobody and drink beer all day. I also know men who actually enjoy war and killing people. It's like a giant, but real video game. There is something for everyone in this world. Just go look for it. It's there somewhere. I could add North Korea to the list. There are a few million people there as well. I'm sure some of them are happy. Same with Somalia and east Africa.

To be fair, the two muslim countries I have lived in have been, in my opinion, good examples of tolerant multiculturalism and you may be surprised or appalled to know that I attended churches in them both. And drank like a fish, and enjoyed the sight of young ladies walking down the street in shorts or mini-skirts. People might wish to limit their criticism of other countries on religous grounds to totalitarian theocracies, like the Vatican, for example.

SC

[MJP]

but who wants to live in Burma or Cambodia or a Muslim country with all the restrictions?

I, along with many other Western and Asian expats, live quite happily in Cambodia, which we generally find considerably more welcoming to foreigners than Thailand.

As to your constant harping about Muslim countries, have you ever actually lived in one? Thought not.

What constant harping about Muslim countries. You're confusing me with someone else. Obviously, Islam seems to work for a few billion people. Women can be treated like sex slaves and get no medical treatment. Men rule the roost. I know men who choose to work in coal mines in terrible conditions. But, given a choice, most of us would pick something different. Some men are happy speaking to nobody and drink beer all day. I also know men who actually enjoy war and killing people. It's like a giant, but real video game. There is something for everyone in this world. Just go look for it. It's there somewhere. I could add North Korea to the list. There are a few million people there as well. I'm sure some of them are happy. Same with Somalia and east Africa.

To be fair, the two muslim countries I have lived in have been, in my opinion, good examples of tolerant multiculturalism and you may be surprised or appalled to know that I attended churches in them both. And drank like a fish, and enjoyed the sight of young ladies walking down the street in shorts or mini-skirts. People might wish to limit their criticism of other countries on religous grounds to totalitarian theocracies, like the Vatican, for example.

SC

Once in Oman, thought it would be a strict Muslim country. Apparently not. The Holiday Inn outside Muscat becomes a sort of mini Pattaya on a Saturday night. Replete with ladies. And lots of booze.

A large framed picture of Winston Churchill adorns the pub wall, where John Smith's is on draft.

Edited January 7, 2011 by MJP

[tjrd12]

Bangkok is a major world capital. Compare Bangkok to Washington D.C. or New York for prices, maybe Texas to Udon Thani.

Next ...

That is funny...BKK is a capital but it is still WAY substandard when it comes to quality of everything...but now not in price...compare Singapore and HK to NYC and DC for prices but not BKK as it does not offer 1/2 of what those cities offer in sophistication, entertainment, and quality of life...

You would compare UDON to a SMALL midwest town, not to a large US city...

I would say that Dallas, Austin, or Houston all offer FAR more then BKK on many levels...restaurants, music, sports, cultural activities...so yes, compare BKK to NYC or DC and you MAYBE get about 25% of what those cities offer...except what most of us are here for

Edited January 7, 2011 by tjrd12

[tjrd12]

You've got to compare like for like haven't you? Take property. If we for the moment forget about comparing a 5 bedroom penthouse with private pool overlooking Rajamdamri with an old moonshiners shack in Buttf#ck Alabama and come up to my neck of the woods you'll find a 15 million baht house that my sister in laws boss is building that would make Tony Montana green with envy.

Some of the places in central BKK are selling for 450 per sq ft...and even the BEST buildings in BKK are substandard by western standards...again you can live on the coasts in the US for that...

A few years ago I was at a cigar dinner and real estate prices were the topic...I pointed out a building on Thong Lor that was going for 120 per sq mt and stated how expensive it was, and a friend stated, "but it is Thong Lor," to which I replied, "the best place in a toilet bowl is still in the crapper."

[tjrd12]

One thing I like better back home is the less obvious social posturing when you meet people. Here there's always that (somewhat) awkward 'weigh in' to see who is bigger/heavier/wealthier/more connected/etc. that will pretty much define the rest of the relationship.

I would agree...no matter what you do you will never be accepted as part of the society here...now I am one of the first one's to bash my homeland (the US), BUT live in the US LEGALLY for 5 yrs and you can become a citizen and own land...here, nope...and YES, I have run a legit biz here for quite a few years with Thai employees whom I pay and treat VERY well...and I pay LOTS of taxes, yet reap no benefit...

Of course why do we stay...be honest, only one reason...

[IanForbes]

but who wants to live in Burma or Cambodia or a Muslim country with all the restrictions?

I, along with many other Western and Asian expats, live quite happily in Cambodia, which we generally find considerably more welcoming to foreigners than Thailand.

As to your constant harping about Muslim countries, have you ever actually lived in one? Thought not.

What constant harping about Muslim countries. You're confusing me with someone else. Obviously, Islam seems to work for a few billion people. Women can be treated like sex slaves and get no medical treatment. Men rule the roost. I know men who choose to work in coal mines in terrible conditions. But, given a choice, most of us would pick something different. Some men are happy speaking to nobody and drink beer all day. I also know men who actually enjoy war and killing people. It's like a giant, but real video game. There is something for everyone in this world. Just go look for it. It's there somewhere. I could add North Korea to the list. There are a few million people there as well. I'm sure some of them are happy. Same with Somalia and east Africa.

To be fair, the two muslim countries I have lived in have been, in my opinion, good examples of tolerant multiculturalism and you may be surprised or appalled to know that I attended churches in them both. And drank like a fish, and enjoyed the sight of young ladies walking down the street in shorts or mini-skirts. People might wish to limit their criticism of other countries on religous grounds to totalitarian theocracies, like the Vatican, for example.

SC

I'll stand corrected as I can't speak first hand on every muslim country.. I know there are a few progressive Muslim countries. I'm just going by what my sister experienced in Afghanistan, iran, Iraq, Arabia and Pakistan prior to the Russians moving out of those countries. She has lived in London for the past 30 years as a travel writer. She traveled throughout the world getting information for her best selling cook books. You can google her name... Leslie Forbes. She now spends her time counseling women who were raped and tortured in those countries, and escaped to England.

[MJP]

Bangkok is a major world capital. Compare Bangkok to Washington D.C. or New York for prices, maybe Texas to Udon Thani.

Next ...

That is funny...BKK is a capital but it is still WAY substandard when it comes to quality of everything...but now not in price...compare Singapore and HK to NYC and DC for prices but not BKK as it does not offer 1/2 of what those cities offer in sophistication, entertainment, and quality of life...

You would compare UDON to a SMALL midwest town, not to a large US city...

That's because Thailand is still not a 1st world country, although it is classed as newly industrialized. It will take time for increased internal competition to develop. One good example was in the Photography forum about camera prices. Import and distribution of cameras is controlled by a few families, hence the mark up.

Don't forget the tax structure here is vastly different to the West. Protectionist levels of duty are levied on imports and stuff produced here yet determined to be for export only. The Thai made shock absorbers I bought today were about half what they would cost in the UK and that's without the fitting costs.

For routine, run of the mill domestically produced items and food, the prices are a lot cheaper. Like . . . well, like rice and shock absorbers.

[tjrd12]

Bangkok is a major world capital. Compare Bangkok to Washington D.C. or New York for prices, maybe Texas to Udon Thani.

Next ...

That is funny...BKK is a capital but it is still WAY substandard when it comes to quality of everything...but now not in price...compare Singapore and HK to NYC and DC for prices but not BKK as it does not offer 1/2 of what those cities offer in sophistication, entertainment, and quality of life...

You would compare UDON to a SMALL midwest town, not to a large US city...

That's because Thailand is still not a 1st world country, although it is classed as newly industrialized. It will take time for increased internal competition to develop. One good example was in the Photography forum about camera prices. Import and distribution of cameras is controlled by a few families, hence the mark up.

Don't forget the tax structure here is vastly different to the West. Protectionist levels of duty are levied on imports and stuff produced here yet determined to be for export only. The Thai made shock absorbers I bought today were about half what they would cost in the UK and that's without the fitting costs.

For routine, run of the mill domestically produced items and food, the prices are a lot cheaper. Like . . . well, like rice and shock absorbers.

MJP,

But the currency is strong and we have gotten NO break on imported goods, in fact prices have inflated...it is by no means a market economy...unfortunately the Thai made products are often substandard and the rich want to keep it that way...it is amazing...the rich own the factories that churn out crap for the locals and make lots of cash so they can buy foreign goods...

And yes, I agree with you, it is a developing country and the prices should reflect that...

[MJP]

Bangkok is a major world capital. Compare Bangkok to Washington D.C. or New York for prices, maybe Texas to Udon Thani.

Next ...

That is funny...BKK is a capital but it is still WAY substandard when it comes to quality of everything...but now not in price...compare Singapore and HK to NYC and DC for prices but not BKK as it does not offer 1/2 of what those cities offer in sophistication, entertainment, and quality of life...

You would compare UDON to a SMALL midwest town, not to a large US city...

That's because Thailand is still not a 1st world country, although it is classed as newly industrialized. It will take time for increased internal competition to develop. One good example was in the Photography forum about camera prices. Import and distribution of cameras is controlled by a few families, hence the mark up.

Don't forget the tax structure here is vastly different to the West. Protectionist levels of duty are levied on imports and stuff produced here yet determined to be for export only. The Thai made shock absorbers I bought today were about half what they would cost in the UK and that's without the fitting costs.

For routine, run of the mill domestically produced items and food, the prices are a lot cheaper. Like . . . well, like rice and shock absorbers.

MJP,

But the currency is strong and we have gotten NO break on imported goods, in fact prices have inflated...it is by no means a market economy...unfortunately the Thai made products are often substandard and the rich want to keep it that way...it is amazing...the rich own the factories that churn out crap for the locals and make lots of cash so they can buy foreign goods...

And yes, I agree with you, it is a developing country and the prices should reflect that...

Ah ah! Currency! Correct you are!

But that's not the Thais fault. They sterilize as we (UK/US) print, but not fast enough. Our own governments are the true enemy. See, a lot of the quantitative easing/TARP money is now ending up here in 'emerging' market bonds. So. Our currencies get trashed and we also get a big dose of inflation over here as the hot money rolls in.

Hence . . . my local shopkeepers Dad (here in the sticks, deepest darkest Issan) buys a brand new fully loaded Toyota Camry today for 1.4 million Baht, their sixth car! Weird???

We are the poor and the Federal Reserve is the tyranny of evil men.

[KRS1]

Try getting a high rise condo smack dab in the middle of any metropolitan city in the US and you'll be paying a whole lot more, something tells me your condo comparison isn't eye to eye to what you have/had in the US.

Luxury condos in downtown San Diego are cheaper than in Bangkok. And in Chicago, right over the Navy Pier, the prices are less than half of what a similar place would cost in Bangkok and the place is much better quality. I expect a Manhattan condo would be higher, but San Diego and Chicago cannot be outliers, and condos in other cities should be cheaper than Bangkok as well.

You like Thailand and don't like the US. I get it. I like Thailand, too. I choose to live here. But it isn't right to make blanket statements condemning the US when those statements just aren't true.

.

You're telling me a condo in the 'heart' of San Diego is less than Bangkok, how about the maintenence fees and property taxes, and electricity? I don't buy it.

You really don't have to buy it. All I can say is that I have priced condos along the river, in Pin Klao, and on Sukhumvhit in Bangkok and in the Gaslamp in San Diego, and San Diego is cheaper. And Chicago, in the most exclusive section, is significantly cheaper. You can take it or leave it.

As far as condo fees, I only know what they are in Bangkok, so I can't really comment on that.

My family owns 3 condos in Honolulu, not one was less than 250k USD for a 44sqmt room, $1500 per month maintenence fees, but are ran by accord hotels and receive paybacks from rental income.

My mothers condo in Dallas on Turtle Creek Blvd incurs a $3000 maintenence fee every month and cost $1.2 M USD for around 300 sqmt

These don't sound like they are cheaper than Bangkok, maybe you're getting the farang price.

[MSingh]

come on the op was in los 15yrs and went native, i am amazed his liver still works after 15yrs of bad booze, and lets be honest his choice of Houston is not the model of what the USA has to offer, it is hot, stinks, and is full of red necks with 2 first names i.e. billie bob. I have been in the los for 11yrs and have no desire to ride a motorcycle taxi, drink beer loa, or eat fresh road kill. Is America for everyone? No! Does America offer the ambitious, hard working of any race, education, sex or sexual prefrence an opportunity to see their dreams come true? Absolutly! If you have Child where would they have more opportunities to succeed? los or USA?

Amen to all of that..

[Jingthing]

Social mobility is actually much better in Europe than America. However, most Americans and also immigrants do like to cling on to outdated myths. To me, this is the most negative thing about America, the false belief that everything is best there, so no need to work on making things better or more just. A perfect example is the socialism phobia over the attempt to reform health care access. It is a mess because Americans are too socialist phobic to accept a real solution, a nationalized cost controlled system such as in Canada.

Parental income is a better predictor of a child’s future in America than in much of Europe, implying that social mobility is less powerful. Different groups of Americans have different levels of opportunity. Those born to the middle class have about an equal chance of moving up or down the income ladder, according to the Economic Mobility Project. But those born to black middle-class families are much more likely than their white counterparts to fall in rank. The children of the rich and poor, meanwhile, are less mobile than the middle class’s. More than 40% of those Americans born in the bottom quintile remain stuck there as adults.

http://www.economist.com/node/15908469