Buying A House In Pattaya

[Naam]

another universal culture is that people add completely irrelevant comments to any discussed topic, compare tulip speculation four centuries ago with somebody's intention to buy a home for people to live in it.

this is a part of the opening post of the thread:

Simple question, what is the best way to find a house at a decent (fair) price in Pattaya? My budget is about 2 million baht and I am very flexible with location.

[Thailaw]

another universal culture is that people add completely irrelevant comments to any discussed topic, compare tulip speculation four centuries ago with somebody's intention to buy a home for people to live in it.

Like I said, people who don't know or understand history (or its applicability to present day events and circumstances) are destined to repeat it. It looks like you are well on your way.....

[jori]

Excuse me Thailaw,are you accusing me of being a tulip? been accused of many things,but a tulip !

There are other pointers of how to judge this market and the general direction it will go in the forseeable future ,and not one for sticking a finger in the air. It is the sheer weariness of having a property for sale for years,sooner or later the fuse (or fuze) burns a lot shorter,the urge to get things moving by constantly dropping the price eventually takes hold,personally I think it has all the makings of a reverse auction this Pattaya market sector, there are thousands up for sale and not a hope in hell of getting rid

People through whatever, illness,family commitment,finances,pissed off to the back teeth with Thailand,etc etc etc,plus there are at least 4 other potential threats make for uncomfortable thinking. This is shaky ground, having a house in a foreign land, feel a permanent presence? then bingo something happens beyond your control. I cannot be the only one here that has been caught out by foreign intervention in property ownership,but I tell you it changes your perception in everything and that includes owning more than you can carry away at a moments notice.

If it was a fluid situation here probably I would have committed to having a go , "rent a man a garden and he will turn it into a desert,sell a man a desert and he will turn it into a garden" or words to that effect, nothing here but endless speculation ,until the dog bites that is.

[Thailaw]

Can't compare tulips to real estate. Real estate is limited. There's only so much...and the world's population is growing. In some places rapidly...as well as becoming more prosperous...like here. . . Again, my point is to never say never...

You can't compare tulips and housing? Are you kidding? From an internet investment blog: "Just like today's collapsing “Housing Bubble”, and the ripple effect from the closely related “liquidity crunch” – Tulipmania plunged Europe into an economic depression. The disaster was such an extraordinary event, that even now – centuries later – it helps explain the eerie similarities to our country’s current housing market, the “herd instinct” and the madness of crowds!!"

The tulip market in Holland is an example of a price bubble that burst -- one of the first documented examples -- certainly not the last. Housing has probably more prone to price bubbles than any other thing. From Wikipedia: "As of 2007^[update], real estate bubbles had existed in the recent past or were widely believed to still exist in many parts of the world,^[3] especially in the United States, Argentina^[4], Britain, Netherlands, Italy, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Spain, Lebanon, France, Poland^[5], South Africa, Israel, Greece, Bulgaria, Croatia^[6], Canada, Norway, Singapore, South Korea, Sweden, Baltic states, India, Romania, Russia, Ukraine and China^[7]. Then U.S. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said in mid-2005 that "at a minimum, there's a little 'froth' (in the U.S. housing market) … it's hard not to see that there are a lot of local bubbles."^[8] The Economist magazine, writing at the same time, went further, saying "the worldwide rise in house prices is the biggest bubble in history".^[9] Real estate bubbles are invariably followed by severe price decreases (also known as a house price crash) that can result in many owners holding negative equity (a mortgage debt higher than the current value of the property)." You and your pal Naam really do need a basic (very basic) course in economics...

And by the way, in a physical sense, housing is no more limited in quantity (supply) than tulips (if it was limited as you sugest, how could it be growing so rapidly in Chonburi ("Unreal how many new housing developments are going up" -- when real estate prices rise so does supply (as with every other product known to man)!). And if you don't think that the Pattaya housing market is dominated by speculators you are blind or kidding yourself. It is the speculation that has in large part led to the over supply of houses/condos in the Pattaya area. Like I said, wake up and smell the tulips.....

And what does all of this have to do with housing prices, God, I hope that is obvious.....

[craigt3365]

OK...way off topic. If this is an important topic, as many of us feel it is, let's open a new one in the Real Estate Forum. Otherwise, back to help the OP in his search. As was quoted by Naam above.

[Naam]

OK...way off topic. If this is an important topic, as many of us feel it is, let's open a new one in the Real Estate Forum. Otherwise, back to help the OP in his search. As was quoted by Naam above.

will that help Craig? the know-it-alls who draw parallels and use the quest for a very modest 2 million Baht home in Pattaya (i couldn't build a nice double garage for that price in my german hometown) in context with a four century ago tulip speculation and housing bubble will move to this forum too to confuse the OP (who must have left alkready because he's p*ssed off).

[craigt3365]

OK...way off topic. If this is an important topic, as many of us feel it is, let's open a new one in the Real Estate Forum. Otherwise, back to help the OP in his search. As was quoted by Naam above.

will that help Craig? the know-it-alls who draw parallels and use the quest for a very modest 2 million Baht home in Pattaya (i couldn't build a nice double garage for that price in my german hometown) in context with a four century ago tulip speculation and housing bubble will move to this forum too to confuse the OP (who must have left alkready because he's p*ssed off).

To help the OP, try this website. I have not worked with them personally, but it contains a pretty decent listing of the various housing developments in the area (along with condos).

http://www.jomtien-property.com/index.php?p=index

Anybody else have a good listing of housing developments in the area?

[jay1980]

To the OP, I have come to the conclusion that the best advise for finding sensible and balanced information about the property market in Pattaya in this Forum is to put 'jori' on ignore

[bartender100]

The Tulip story was mentioned in the recent film Wall Street Money Talks, it was Gecko's life's inspiration to avoid failure if i recall.

Anyway, what better than daffodils on your piano?

Tulips on or organ, boom boom

[Darrel]

A property, any property, is worth precisely what someone will pay for it.

Property in general can be valued at the average price that is currently being paid for similar properties; not the price that was being paid x years ago, or the price that will be paid y years hence.

A property, any property, that is on sale for more than 2 months is priced above its worth or is just not being marketed.

Combine the above and it is very clear that much property in Pattaya is GROSSLY overvalued with vendors waiting years for a loony to come along and pay what they are asking for it.

At the same time, I am astounded by the lackadaisical approach of many agents and vendors. Some of them just dont seem to care whether the properties sell at all. This is reflected in the complete inability of many agents to respond to a simple request for information about properties, their websites that contain many properties that are no longer available (in some cases much more than 50%), and the impossibility of contacting many vendors because they simply cant be bothered to answer the phone or reply to emails. Very third-rate, with just one or two glaring exceptions.

[Darrel]

To help the OP, try this website. I have not worked with them personally, but it contains a pretty decent listing of the various housing developments in the area (along with condos).

http://www.jomtien-p...dex.php?p=index

Far more than half the properties listed on that site are sold or otherwise not available. This is VERY annoying and hugely time-wasting. This agency is not the only one with this fault though. Most of them have it. They should all wake up.

The actual people working in that company (that I have dealt with) are very professional and as such I recommend them.

[craigt3365]

To help the OP, try this website. I have not worked with them personally, but it contains a pretty decent listing of the various housing developments in the area (along with condos).

http://www.jomtien-p...dex.php?p=index

Far more than half the properties listed on that site are sold or otherwise not available. This is VERY annoying and hugely time-wasting. This agency is not the only one with this fault though. Most of them have it. They should all wake up.

The actual people working in that company (that I have dealt with) are very professional and as such I recommend them.

For sure. Many online databases here have "old" data. And a lack of comps makes things more difficult. But at least this one has a fairly decent listing of developments in the area. And by looking even at "old" data, you can get an idea for the price ranges in particular developments. Then head over there and look around yourself. Unfortunately, it is sometimes the best way to see what is really out there...

I bought my house from Alan Bolton and can tell you it is no longer listed on their website.

[Darrel]

I bought my house from Alan Bolton and can tell you it is no longer listed on their website.

Nor indeed are any condos in the (popular) buildings I am interested in. I'm not sure why?

[Thailaw]

I think that the OP was hoping that a reader would have or know of a house in Pattaya for sale in his price range that is "well priced", i.e., represents good value. I doubt that he will find that on a real estate agent's web site. He might use an agent and his listings to identify one or more areas that he likes (the areas are indeed very different as you move around Pattaya and the vicinity), but agents are not the source for "value" (at least not the best value) and in many cases not even a source for relaiable information -- they just waste your time. The OP might consider expanding his audience by putting a "Pattaya house wanted" sign with a full description of his requirements on the "For Sale" boards around Pattayta food stores and ads in the classifieds on this website and Bahtsold. Following up on the responses will take time and effort, but that is required in an environment where information is difficult to get. And it should be remembered that the OP's price range is around B2 million. If prices are, as I think, listed above market price by most sellers and agents they are high on a percentage basis -- let's say for argument sake 25 to 30% (some, of course more and some less). But for a house at B2 million, the above market price differential may only be B500k, where on a B10 million house it could be B2.5 million or more. And the time and effort to find the "good deal" may be the same regardless of the price of the house (actually it may be more difficult in the higher priced houses, because the market for the lower priced homes tends to be more efficient with more buyers). So, the time and effort required to save B500k (or get B500k more house) may be more than the saving is worth. But, it may be a useful way to start.

[tomhuayyai]

There have been sme good posts and some that are absolutely rediculus on this. Enough has been said about the rediculus already but little to help the OP.

My advice is definately travel around until you find an area or road you like and then ask locally and call many of the signs you will see. Some will be over priced and eventually you will find exactly what you want. At a price you want. You may also be given better advice than from here on where is good or has a problem. I like Huay Yai, but many would say I am biased.

This rest of this post may not help the OP but may be of interest to someone else reading.

We build villas in Huay Yai that offer superb value. Alas, we have nothing for sale in the OP price range but have villas starting from just under B4m and up. We build in ones and twos and they have been selling well.

Send me a PM

To the OP. Happy hunting.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Rimmer
Commercial Link removed

[Thailaw]

There have been sme good posts and some that are absolutely rediculus on this. Enough has been said about the rediculus already but little to help the OP.

My advice is definately travel around until you find an area or road you like and then ask locally and call many of the signs you will see. Some will be over priced and eventually you will find exactly what you want. At a price you want. You may also be given better advice than from here on where is good or has a problem. I like Huay Yai, but many would say I am biased.

This rest of this post may not help the OP but may be of interest to someone else reading.

We build villas in Huay Yai that offer superb value. Alas, we have nothing for sale in the OP price range but have villas starting from just under B4m and up. We build in ones and twos and they have been selling well.

Send me a PM

To the OP. Happy hunting.

Your post is biased in all respects, and not only as to choice of location -- I guess that a little free advertising never hurts in a down market. I'm adding it to the pile of "absolutely rediculus" [sic] ones -- I expect that if the bias (i.e., financial motive) was stripped away, you would wholeheartedly agree. Incidentally, the OP said in his original post that he had done almost exactly what you suggest ("I have driven around and called street advertisements, but a lot of hit and misses" (I'm guessing really all misses thus far)). He was asking for suggestions for a "better" approach, not to just tell him to do what he has already been doing. No real help to the OP -- care to try again?

[SGD]

Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please?

although that question was not directed to me i'd like to add my two Satang.

it all depends from what perspective you look at a property. before we decided to build we looked at dozens of properties which (we thought) were priced at fair values. that was in 2004 and, being used to the values of our other properties (mainly Germany and the U.S.), everything was dàmned cheap in Thailand. unfortunately no home did match our demands (and taste) so we decided to have, as we did before, our home built exactly to our specifications and every cm² (not m²!) planned by us even though it was much more expensive. not in our wildest dreams we ever thought of resale value of any home we owned and lived or planned to live. that was, is and will be our perspective.

other varieties of perspectives i refrain to comment

Perhaps the very fact that most simply think about how much they will make (or lose !) is an indication of the limited time they perceive they will live there. As a final home, your approach is perhaps the best one but I guess when you think you will move and the house forms the largest part of your wealth then you really worry about it losing value.

[SGD]

.....And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will.

The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs...

But you seem to be forgetting that unless the buyer earns money in Thailand, then you are talking about prices in home currency terms. For example, £100k once bought 7.5m baht but to buy that 7.5m baht house today would require £150k. To get it back to £100k would require that the house price fall to 5m baht. A blinkered owner holding out for 10m baht is going to be waiting forever as FX rates are not going to £1 = Bt100 anytime soon ! Add in that people are more cautious than a few years ago and more worried about the future, then they are probably more likely to be willing to risk £50k and not the £100k then would have previously. That would depress prices at all levels, but more so at higher levels.

[LennyW]

There have been sme good posts and some that are absolutely rediculus on this. Enough has been said about the rediculus already but little to help the OP.

My advice is definately travel around until you find an area or road you like and then ask locally and call many of the signs you will see. Some will be over priced and eventually you will find exactly what you want. At a price you want. You may also be given better advice than from here on where is good or has a problem. I like Huay Yai, but many would say I am biased.

This rest of this post may not help the OP but may be of interest to someone else reading.

We build villas in Huay Yai that offer superb value. Alas, we have nothing for sale in the OP price range but have villas starting from just under B4m and up. We build in ones and twos and they have been selling well.

Send me a PM

To the OP. Happy hunting.

Your post is biased in all respects, and not only as to choice of location -- I guess that a little free advertising never hurts in a down market. I'm adding it to the pile of "absolutely rediculus" [sic] ones -- I expect that if the bias (i.e., financial motive) was stripped away, you would wholeheartedly agree. Incidentally, the OP said in his original post that he had done almost exactly what you suggest ("I have driven around and called street advertisements, but a lot of hit and misses" (I'm guessing really all misses thus far)). He was asking for suggestions for a "better" approach, not to just tell him to do what he has already been doing. No real help to the OP -- care to try again?

You mean a helpful post like your blether of <deleted> about tulips perhaps??:jerk:

[tomhuayyai]

.....And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will.

The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs...

But you seem to be forgetting that unless the buyer earns money in Thailand, then you are talking about prices in home currency terms. For example, £100k once bought 7.5m baht but to buy that 7.5m baht house today would require £150k. To get it back to £100k would require that the house price fall to 5m baht. A blinkered owner holding out for 10m baht is going to be waiting forever as FX rates are not going to £1 = Bt100 anytime soon ! Add in that people are more cautious than a few years ago and more worried about the future, then they are probably more likely to be willing to risk £50k and not the £100k then would have previously. That would depress prices at all levels, but more so at higher levels.

When I first came to Thialand in November 1994 - the Thai baht was 28 baht to the pound

[rak sa_ngop]

.....And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will.

The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs...

When I first came to Thialand in November 1994 - the Thai baht was 28 baht to the pound

Checking historic rates on the web, the 20 day average for November 1994 was 39.7161 baht to the British pound

[tomhuayyai]

.....And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will.

The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs...

When I first came to Thialand in November 1994 - the Thai baht was 28 baht to the pound

Checking historic rates on the web, the 20 day average for November 1994 was 39.7161 baht to the British pound

I found a receipt in the back of my passport about a year ago. I was done. Bloody Samui!

Edited February 12, 2011 by tomhuayyai

[Naam]

Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please?

although that question was not directed to me i'd like to add my two Satang.

it all depends from what perspective you look at a property. before we decided to build we looked at dozens of properties which (we thought) were priced at fair values. that was in 2004 and, being used to the values of our other properties (mainly Germany and the U.S.), everything was dàmned cheap in Thailand. unfortunately no home did match our demands (and taste) so we decided to have, as we did before, our home built exactly to our specifications and every cm² (not m²!) planned by us even though it was much more expensive. not in our wildest dreams we ever thought of resale value of any home we owned and lived or planned to live. that was, is and will be our perspective.

other varieties of perspectives i refrain to comment

Perhaps the very fact that most simply think about how much they will make (or lose !) is an indication of the limited time they perceive they will live there. As a final home, your approach is perhaps the best one but I guess when you think you will move and the house forms the largest part of your wealth then you really worry about it losing value.

if the house forms the largest part of one's wealth then it would be extremely foolish to adopt our personal perspective which is "living according to our demands and specs = priority #1".

[ExpatOilWorker]

Back to work again and the idea of buying the house has cooled off a bit. Lets see how the market is toward the end of the year.

Thanks for the help and advise given.

[jori]

Back to work again and the idea of buying the house has cooled off a bit. Lets see how the market is toward the end of the year.

Thanks for the help and advise given.

Good ,and hopefully you will never entertain the idea again.

The thousands of unsold housing lay testament to the utter collapse of Pattaya housing market,most property has been on the market for many years and will remain on the market for ever. The collapse will gather pace over the next few years as owners abandon their properties,leaving great empty chunks in their respective sub-divisions /estates,unpaid maintainance fees being paid will reduce these same estates to a crime driven wasteland,by unaffordable security /cleaning issues being forced onto the remaining residents who in turn will flee..

It is a mirror image of what is now happening in Europe as many ex-pats are forced back to their homelands through circumstances beyond their control,but here it is magnified many times over by distance and sheer uncertainty of any future decisions and political unrest

The engine that took the housing market here to great heights has now finished,Europe and the USA are financially finished,it all takes time to filter through ,but what you now witness is the finish of the market here

[craigt3365]

One post removed for obviously not providing any help.

Best of luck to the OP. We'll close this topic for now. Please re-open a new one when/if you are back in the market.