jori Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 yesterday a local paper screaming out that Chomburi have now joined up with Phuket and demanding mandatory medical insurance for all retiree ex pats,knowing Thailand that will be set impossibly high especially for the 60 plus brigade ,so another prospect on top of a few more awaiting in the wings. Is there anything unusual in this...it's the case in most countries which encourage retirement settlement of foreigners. And besides, as a Thai taxpayer, I don't want to be responsible for paying the medical care costs of a bunch of feckless ferengs who wash-up in Thailand without adequate financial means to care for themselves should a medical situation arise. seconded! i'm also sick and tired reading the postings of the poor boys who don't own a pot to piss in but advising me what to do with my money such as "rent, rent, rent... don't buy! the sky is falling any time from now. they will expropriate you! you are a criminal and prison waits for you. they don't want us here. they just want our money and then we are supposed leave." during the six years i am living here i saved more on income tax then i spent for my home. and i stopped counting the cost for building, upgrading, rectifying construction mistakes, add-ons, etc. of my home when i exceeded spending the "modest" sum of 25 million Baht! i therefore repeat: "don't tell us about your miserable life in Thailand. keep your valuable advice to yourself, leave the country if you don't like it here and lead a miserable life (as you did before) in your home country!" Is Naam getting a bit grumpy on his old days or just having a bad hair day? Oh dear! a little agitation here I see,personally I do not want to involve myself particulary with grumpy old men or being follically challenged by whatever,but have I ever mentioned renting? advised you on anything ? therefore I repeat,why be miseable with your life and why be entrapped in a position you can never ever escape from?,especially with a much vaunted (with the fairies ) price tag of 25 mil on your house,a figure that in the history of mankind would never be achieved With a estimated price build of an estimated 12 thousand bucks maximum it is hard to establish a figure of your (with the fairies ) suggested pricing,let alone the £25.60 I personally offer you forthwith for your estate on a take it or leave it basis, that expires at midnight tonight. I may know somebody who is willing to offer more (but not much more),and if I were you I would seize the opportunity with both hands,a bird in the bush etc etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevkev1888 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Jori I think no one is closer to the fairies than you! Try to read and comprehend. Naam has not put a price on his house, it's not for sale currently. He has merely informed of what he has spent on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prefabs Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Jori I think no one is closer to the fairies than you! Try to read and comprehend. Naam has not put a price on his house, it's not for sale currently. He has merely informed of what he has spent on it. I think Jori's recent wart operation has affected the nearest part to it --his brain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxxx Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 can also try http://www.rethai.com (REThai.com) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 But hey,nothing about affordability.nothing about 25 mil housing ,it's about future permission to remain in the country. I'm sure your aware of events that have happened /are happening in other areas of the world close by,the last few years have been relatively smooth as for visas in this country, I do not think for one moment that that situation being maintained,not one bit. Thailand has changed considerably it's attude to foreigners it the last few years. It will be good watching the results i have been visiting Thailand as a tourist and on business trips for more than a quarter century, live in Thailand since 6 years and have not realised any change in attitude except the personal views that a bunch of disgruntled expats voice in Thaivisa. Exactly...for how many years have we heard the same hysteric talk of an anti-foreigner backlash. A backlash against anyone living her illegally I'm all for. Also, anything that weeds out the morally or financially undesirable foreigners again, I'm all for. As for the rest of us, I see no change in attitude of the Thais...and I don't live in a farang ghetto but a very mixed middle-income Thai/farang moobaan. The Thais here are just a friendly and welcoming as they ever were and are more than happy to meet foreigners living in their community half-way, as long as foreigners make some effort to comport with a minimum of Thai culture and customs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Is Naam getting a bit grumpy on his old days or just having a bad hair day? my middle name is Grumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Also, anything that weeds out the morally or financially undesirable foreigners again, I'm all for. BINGO! without these morally undesirable foreigners i might even visit Walking Street once a year instead of once in five years. also, baht buses and motorcycle taxis should be abolished and only limousine service allowed (100 Baht per ½ kilometer) to get rid of financially undesirable foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Jori I think no one is closer to the fairies than you! Try to read and comprehend. Naam has not put a price on his house, it's not for sale currently. He has merely informed of what he has spent on it. none of my homes (plural) are for sale. the situation might change when they carry me to the crematorium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 The Thais here are just a friendly and welcoming as they ever were... they are indeed! but not necessarily towards foreign peasants who think that the few <insert currency units> and the ATM card they carry in their wallets entitles them to criticise, ridicule, condemn culture, customs and accepted standards of their host country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Off topic argumentative post removed from view, For future reference the topic title is: Buying A House In Pattaya How to find and get the best deal Anything else not directly related to the topic will also be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 (edited) Ok...Come to Pattaya and rent s hotel room or condo short-term and then take your time driving around and looking in areas you are interested in. Buy direct from the seller to grt the best deal. Ok, the thread can be closed now. Edited February 7, 2011 by Rimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 Oh dear! a little agitation here I see,personally I do not want to involve myself particulary with grumpy old men or being follically challenged by whatever,but have I ever mentioned renting? advised you on anything ? therefore I repeat,why be miseable with your life and why be entrapped in a position you can never ever escape from?,especially with a much vaunted (with the fairies ) price tag of 25 mil on your house,a figure that in the history of mankind would never be achieved With a estimated price build of an estimated 12 thousand bucks maximum it is hard to establish a figure of your (with the fairies ) suggested pricing,let alone the £25.60 I personally offer you forthwith for your estate on a take it or leave it basis, that expires at midnight tonight. I may know somebody who is willing to offer more (but not much more),and if I were you I would seize the opportunity with both hands,a bird in the bush etc etc... You wouldn't say that if you saw Naam's house... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGD Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 What is abundantly clear is that properties are being marketed ever more in excess of their true worth. I'm not just talking about THB terms but also in terms of USD/GBP/EUR etc. The figures quoted by most agents are so far off the mark when you learn about an actual property which really sold to a bona fide buyer who actually completed on the deal. A guy buys a house a few years ago for 5m and was told it was worth north of 10m a while back and so it goes to market at 12-15m. Now he won't readily accept 5m but wants 12m and thinks he is giving it away at 10m. It could be worth much less than 5m and the simple fact is that there are not so many guys out there sitting on multi million baht deposits who can buy property when the vendor needs to sell. People have to get realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 What is abundantly clear is that properties are being marketed ever more in excess of their true worth. the emphasis is on "marketed" but not sales. two friends of mine are currently looking to buy homes in the Pattaya area. when comparing what is offered at what price they see huge discrepancies. some sellers seem to float on cloud nine far away from reality whereas (only a few) others are asking fair prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatOilWorker Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 can also try http://www.rethai.com (REThai.com) Thanks Fox, great site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What is abundantly clear is that properties are being marketed ever more in excess of their true worth. I'm not just talking about THB terms but also in terms of USD/GBP/EUR etc. The figures quoted by most agents are so far off the mark when you learn about an actual property which really sold to a bona fide buyer who actually completed on the deal. A guy buys a house a few years ago for 5m and was told it was worth north of 10m a while back and so it goes to market at 12-15m. Now he won't readily accept 5m but wants 12m and thinks he is giving it away at 10m. It could be worth much less than 5m and the simple fact is that there are not so many guys out there sitting on multi million baht deposits who can buy property when the vendor needs to sell. People have to get realistic. Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailaw Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 the emphasis is on "marketed" but not sales. . . . when comparing what is offered at what price they see huge discrepancies. some sellers seem to float on cloud nine far away from reality whereas (only a few) others are asking fair prices. I think that everyone will agree with this statement. I would insert "very" before "few". And the real issue for prospective buyers is how to get information on the prices at which houses are actually transacting -- it takes time and effort. And you simply won't get it by looking at the "for sale" adverts. As I said before, getting good, reliable, and useful information is difficult here -- it is not more difficult in the real estate market, it is just that more money is at stake, so more care is required and justified -- the buyer's curse is alive and well in Pattaya. In 2004 I looked at a house on the Darkside where the asking price was B11 million - nice house (300+ sq m, 1 rai, 4 BR, guest house, pool). I settled on a new house (not yet built) for B9, which I thought was a good deal in comparison to the B11 million house. The agent that showed me both houses told me later that the B11 million house actually sold for B7 million -- I was shocked to say the least (needless to say I would have jumped at it for that price). Note that this was pre-financial crisis when the housing market in Pattaya was "strong". I expect that examples like this are far more common than people realize. I would never consider offering 60% of the asking price back in the US, but, here, asking prices mean absolutely nothing (at least in terms of a house's market/transaction value). This is a very tough market, with a lot of bad signals and misinformation. Caveat emptor (oh, I said that before -- sorry). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailaw Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please? In the US it is called evaluating "comparables" or "comps", i.e., houses that are in the same area that have sold recently, and using the selling price of those houses (adjusted by an appraiser for differences in house and land characteristics) to get a reliable estimate of the "market value" of the house in question. Banks require such an appraiser determined evaluation for the mortgage approval process. The information on houses -- land area, house living area, number of bedrooms, etc. -- is surprisingly detailed in the US, and I expect also in Europe. Go to www.zillow.com, and you can put in any address you want in the US and get the estimated market value based on the sales prices of recently sold "comparable" homes in the same area. It will also tell you when the house you are looking at last sold and the sales price, along with detailed information on the house and in most cases pictures of the house. How do you do it in Pattaya -- lick you finger and stick it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Edited February 8, 2011 by Thailaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jori Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) What is abundantly clear is that properties are being marketed ever more in excess of their true worth. I'm not just talking about THB terms but also in t Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please? I would say supply and demand (well anyone would I suspect) ,meaning plenty, no not plenty,one hell of oversupply,and no demand not one bit and there never ever will be Anyone buying 5 or 6 years ago is nursing one hell of a "worth " overhang ,never ever will the money be re-couped if a sale could ever be achieved,which never will A lot of talk to overstate " worth " when housing here could be cobbled together and shoved up over a weekend,never does it come within a mile of it's true" worth",it is only worth as much as somebody is prepared to pay ,so nobody prepared to pay a cent for it,well then it's worth less than a cent. Thoughts of not having a pot to piss in,after extracting yourself from the mess of property ownership here it would would be truly amazing if a pot could ever be afforded to piss in after such a hammering loss. I came ,looked decided within a short time,not for me this property market. The thought of it to seeing it decline month in month out, and no way out would have been mortifying ,no kept the powder dry,shoved it via internet into share market both USA and UK ,now sitting on good profit. I can thank the Pattaya housing market for this . Thank you Edited February 8, 2011 by jori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please? How do you do it in Pattaya -- lick you finger and stick it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing. Aah, the scientific approach! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarangBuddha Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 the emphasis is on "marketed" but not sales. . . . when comparing what is offered at what price they see huge discrepancies. some sellers seem to float on cloud nine far away from reality whereas (only a few) others are asking fair prices. I think that everyone will agree with this statement. I would insert "very" before "few". And the real issue for prospective buyers is how to get information on the prices at which houses are actually transacting -- it takes time and effort. And you simply won't get it by looking at the "for sale" adverts. As I said before, getting good, reliable, and useful information is difficult here -- it is not more difficult in the real estate market, it is just that more money is at stake, so more care is required and justified -- the buyer's curse is alive and well in Pattaya. In 2004 I looked at a house on the Darkside where the asking price was B11 million - nice house (300+ sq m, 1 rai, 4 BR, guest house, pool). I settled on a new house (not yet built) for B9, which I thought was a good deal in comparison to the B11 million house. The agent that showed me both houses told me later that the B11 million house actually sold for B7 million -- I was shocked to say the least (needless to say I would have jumped at it for that price). Note that this was pre-financial crisis when the housing market in Pattaya was "strong". I expect that examples like this are far more common than people realize. I would never consider offering 60% of the asking price back in the US, but, here, asking prices mean absolutely nothing (at least in terms of a house's market/transaction value). This is a very tough market, with a lot of bad signals and misinformation. Caveat emptor (oh, I said that before -- sorry). So you got mugged, hopefully you learned something. Asking prices are just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExpatOilWorker Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 the emphasis is on "marketed" but not sales. . . . when comparing what is offered at what price they see huge discrepancies. some sellers seem to float on cloud nine far away from reality whereas (only a few) others are asking fair prices. I think that everyone will agree with this statement. I would insert "very" before "few". And the real issue for prospective buyers is how to get information on the prices at which houses are actually transacting -- it takes time and effort. And you simply won't get it by looking at the "for sale" adverts. As I said before, getting good, reliable, and useful information is difficult here -- it is not more difficult in the real estate market, it is just that more money is at stake, so more care is required and justified -- the buyer's curse is alive and well in Pattaya. In 2004 I looked at a house on the Darkside where the asking price was B11 million - nice house (300+ sq m, 1 rai, 4 BR, guest house, pool). I settled on a new house (not yet built) for B9, which I thought was a good deal in comparison to the B11 million house. The agent that showed me both houses told me later that the B11 million house actually sold for B7 million -- I was shocked to say the least (needless to say I would have jumped at it for that price). Note that this was pre-financial crisis when the housing market in Pattaya was "strong". I expect that examples like this are far more common than people realize. I would never consider offering 60% of the asking price back in the US, but, here, asking prices mean absolutely nothing (at least in terms of a house's market/transaction value). This is a very tough market, with a lot of bad signals and misinformation. Caveat emptor (oh, I said that before -- sorry). Thanks for your comments Thailaw, you hit the nail right on the head. I am going through that initial confusing phase now and your price example (11 -> 7 million) really confirms that most Agents listed prices are pure fantasy. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 What is abundantly clear is that properties are being marketed ever more in excess of their true worth. I'm not just talking about THB terms but also in t Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please? I would say supply and demand (well anyone would I suspect) ,meaning plenty, no not plenty,one hell of oversupply,and no demand not one bit and there never ever will be Anyone buying 5 or 6 years ago is nursing one hell of a "worth " overhang ,never ever will the money be re-couped if a sale could ever be achieved,which never will A lot of talk to overstate " worth " when housing here could be cobbled together and shoved up over a weekend,never does it come within a mile of it's true" worth",it is only worth as much as somebody is prepared to pay ,so nobody prepared to pay a cent for it,well then it's worth less than a cent. Thoughts of not having a pot to piss in,after extracting yourself from the mess of property ownership here it would would be truly amazing if a pot could ever be afforded to piss in after such a hammering loss. I came ,looked decided within a short time,not for me this property market. The thought of it to seeing it decline month in month out, and no way out would have been mortifying ,no kept the powder dry,shoved it via internet into share market both USA and UK ,now sitting on good profit. I can thank the Pattaya housing market for this . Thank you Never say never. I know several houses that have been sold recently, a few at a loss, one at a profit. And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will. The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jori Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) Never say never. I know several houses that have been sold recently, a few at a loss, one at a profit. And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will. Hello Craig, Please pass on my regards to your great, great, great grandkids Edited February 8, 2011 by jori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Can you give an explanation of how to determine the "true worth" of a property please? although that question was not directed to me i'd like to add my two Satang. it all depends from what perspective you look at a property. before we decided to build we looked at dozens of properties which (we thought) were priced at fair values. that was in 2004 and, being used to the values of our other properties (mainly Germany and the U.S.), everything was dàmned cheap in Thailand. unfortunately no home did match our demands (and taste) so we decided to have, as we did before, our home built exactly to our specifications and every cm² (not m²!) planned by us even though it was much more expensive. not in our wildest dreams we ever thought of resale value of any home we owned and lived or planned to live. that was, is and will be our perspective. other varieties of perspectives i refrain to comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svtbg Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Best buy it in your girlfriends name then. What a stupid advice!! Edited February 9, 2011 by svtbg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thailaw Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Never say never. I know several houses that have been sold recently, a few at a loss, one at a profit. And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will. The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs... It is said that those that do not know or understand history are destined to repeat it. I do not subscribe to Jori's extremely pessimistic view of Pattaya real estate. But the idea that this condition will all take care of itself in time is equally wrong. I commend you to read Tulopomania (on the internet at http://thetulipomania.com/), which is an interesting story about the tulip price explosion (and its collapse) in Holland in the easly 1600's. A short excerpt: "The tulip trade became so wide spread and detailed that new laws were enacted for the guidance of the dealers. Officials were appointed who devoted themselves exclusively to the tulip trade. In the smaller towns, where there was no official tulip exchange, the principal tavern was usually selected as the "showplace," where high and low traded in tulips, and confirmed their bargains over sumptuous entertainments. These dinners were sometimes attended by two or three hundred people, and large vases of tulips, in full bloom, were placed at regular intervals upon the tables and sideboards. At last, however, wiser heads began to see that this folly could not last for ever. Rich people no longer bought the flowers for their gardens, but to sell them again at profit. It was realised that somebody must lose badly in the end. As this concern spread, prices fell, never to rise again. Confidence was now destroyed. Dealers were gripped by universal panic and began defaulting on contracts. . . . Defaulters were announced day after day in all the towns of Holland. Hundreds of people who had begun to believe poverty would be banished from the land, suddenly found they were owners of bulbs worth only a small fraction of what they had paid for them." I am not suggesting that the Pattaya housing market is the same as the Holland tulip market in the 1600s (but I am sure that Jori would). What I am suggesting is that there are similarities (for different underlying reasons), and it is wrong to assume that prices will rise to fully recover the reductions in prices that exist when compared to the prices of the same properties 5 years ago. Wake up, and smell the tulips. Edited February 9, 2011 by Thailaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Tulips and Pattaya housing? has anybody ever lived in tulips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Never say never. I know several houses that have been sold recently, a few at a loss, one at a profit. And I can guarantee you, prices will eventually rise. Not sure when, but for sure they will. The stock market is "currently" a good place to make some money. That wasn't the case a few years ago...all markets have their ups and downs... It is said that those that do not know or understand history are destined to repeat it. I do not subscribe to Jori's extremely pessimistic view of Pattaya real estate. But the idea that this condition will all take care of itself in time is equally wrong. I commend you to read Tulopomania (on the internet at http://thetulipomania.com/), which is an interesting story about the tulip price explosion (and its collapse) in Holland in the easly 1600's. A short excerpt: "The tulip trade became so wide spread and detailed that new laws were enacted for the guidance of the dealers. Officials were appointed who devoted themselves exclusively to the tulip trade. In the smaller towns, where there was no official tulip exchange, the principal tavern was usually selected as the "showplace," where high and low traded in tulips, and confirmed their bargains over sumptuous entertainments. These dinners were sometimes attended by two or three hundred people, and large vases of tulips, in full bloom, were placed at regular intervals upon the tables and sideboards. At last, however, wiser heads began to see that this folly could not last for ever. Rich people no longer bought the flowers for their gardens, but to sell them again at profit. It was realised that somebody must lose badly in the end. As this concern spread, prices fell, never to rise again. Confidence was now destroyed. Dealers were gripped by universal panic and began defaulting on contracts. . . . Defaulters were announced day after day in all the towns of Holland. Hundreds of people who had begun to believe poverty would be banished from the land, suddenly found they were owners of bulbs worth only a small fraction of what they had paid for them." I am not suggesting that the Pattaya housing market is the same as the Holland tulip market in the 1600s (but I am sure that Jori would). What I am suggesting is that there are similarities (for different underlying reasons), and it is wrong to assume that prices will rise to fully recover the reductions in prices that exist when compared to the prices of the same properties 5 years ago. Wake up, and smell the tulips. Can't compare tulips to real estate. Real estate is limited. There's only so much...and the world's population is growing. In some places rapidly...as well as becoming more prosperous...like here. I 100% agree that it will be sometime before prices recover. I'm in the RE biz in Vegas. Talk about a horrible place to be right now. It won't recover for many years. My only issue with saying "never" is that it is not true. Prices will go up...who knows when...but for sure they will. It's all about supply and demand. RE has limited supply...when demand increases, prices will follow. But for sure, demand is just not there right now for properties oriented towards foreigners. But that's pretty much the case the world over. Take a drive back behind Sri Racha and towards Chonburi. Unreal how many new housing developments are going up. They are everywhere...and selling...but oriented towards Thais, not farangs. I have 2 guys who worked on my house last year who are both in the RE biz. One's biz is really slow. He focuses on high end build outs oriented towards farangs. The other focuses on the Thai market. Basic construction. He is jamming. Again, my point is to never say never... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASABIAN Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 It is a universal culture that when a man chooses the wrong financial move for him, he will claim that everyman has made the same move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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