Building A House

[David006]

Another thread gone to shit.

Yup enough cash and and few gallons of Hong Thong and Mallox anything is possible....everyone thought I had AIDS when I built our house.lost so much weight and looked like <deleted>..not for the faint of heart but worth it in the end ....errr maybe...good luck mate!

[slapout]

amykat may have hit too close to home on some of the TV members. I am a relative short timer (in human years) living in Thailand but what warning have been given are from real instances that I know of personally or have experienced.

Well, she was telling people that anyone happy building a house was getting ripped off by his hooker wife, wether they reallized it or not.

If you start posting flame-bait like that then clearly some flak is to be expected. Stuff like:

your Thai woman, or whatever, will probably be getting rich off commission, and not give a dam_n for several reasons ...could be because he/she is too stupid to give a dam_n, shit is what they are used to ...or could be she/he doesn't want to F' up her commission ...even though your Thai partner says she/he agrees with you, that is total BS ...they never think like us, they just say that.

Then the first person who politely raised an eyebrow got a: "Maybe you are one of the farangs here, who can't put more than 50 baht together on a daily basis, and feel the need to attack those of us who aren't broke whore-mongers?"

That's not a person hitting too close to home, or hitting anywhere. That's a person revealing some personal challenges that I do hope she gets a handle on.

I read the part I am concerned in and ignore the part that does not affect me. I try not to read something into an opinion which may not have been the posters intention.

[doppa]

ok so heres my ten pence worth.[ apologies if these have already being covered in other peoples comments]

1] you cannot own land under current thai law.

2] you cannot give your wife the money to purchase land and money to build under current thai law.

[ now lots of people do and take the risk that they go unobserved by the authorities]

3] you cannot own an apartment under current thai law.

4] you can own a condo.

you can however lease the land for upto 30 yrs, with the availability for another 30yrs, however i've never met anyone in thailand who has actually been in thailand that long, and managed to obtain the extension, but they maybe out there, the 90yr lease does not exist.

the question is if you can afford to lose the money, and want to go down the customary routes that most do, well do it, if you can't, don't do it., ask yourself, would you take the same risks in your own country.

[cheshiregent]

regarding the lease issue if you buy a house say for 5 million thats about 100.000 pounds and have it for 30 years

and it all goes wrong and you cant renew the lease whats 100.000 over 30 years not much

im 38 so if i was to do it id be 68 when it ran out so not really an issue

i think the best way to look at it and this is only what iv found is never ever spend money or invest here

unless you can afford to loose it you never know when the government will change there mind about something retirement visa marriage visa work permits

they really are not consistent about these things

i own condos thats a very easy and stress less option and 100 percent in my name but they you are limited to space

and you get a lot more for you money with a house just a bigger risk only you can decide if its worth it

[cheshiregent]

ok so heres my ten pence worth.[ apologies if these have already being covered in other peoples comments]

1] you cannot own land under current thai law.

2] you cannot give your wife the money to purchase land and money to build under current thai law.

[ now lots of people do and take the risk that they go unobserved by the authorities]

3] you cannot own an apartment under current thai law.

4] you can own a condo.

you can however lease the land for upto 30 yrs, with the availability for another 30yrs, however i've never met anyone in thailand who has actually been in thailand that long, and managed to obtain the extension, but they maybe out there, the 90yr lease does not exist.

the question is if you can afford to lose the money, and want to go down the customary routes that most do, well do it, if you can't, don't do it., ask yourself, would you take the same risks in your own country.

just a quick question what the difference between a condo and an apartment ?

i own two condos very easy and hassle free

[cheshiregent]

and if you need a good lawyer which are few and far between id recommend legal and business at hill side 4

ask for nok perfect english very professional much better than the cowboy outfit i used before

[swissie]

Another thread gone to shit.

I agree! Usually after 20 posts, one realizes that the incoming comments have very little to do with the OP's original Question/Comment! Will the "mod's" eventually find a remedy ? Something Like: "Thread closed, too far off original topic!" = For example: Look under "Economic Crisis" under the sub-forum Jobs, Economy, etc. Laughable!

========================================================================================================================================================================================

- Adressing directly the OP's comment: If renters get the feeling, that they have paid the rent "into the blue" for any number of years and now want to participate in the money-machine of ever increasing real-estate prices = That is a good indicator, that the boom comes to an end.

Reminder: Before the real- estate bust took place in the USA, that was PRECISELY THE SITUATION.

Cheers

[Semper]

There's three kinds of replies you will get from this

1. You're not Thai, you cannot own land. Why purchase something you cannot own. That's just nuts. If and when Thailand graduates to the league of sane countries, I can look at house ownership again.

Then there is:

2. Prices of land, and building are quite high compared to rents. You can easily find houses that the owners want millions and millions of baht for to buy, but well under 10K to rent! With price levels as they are, it just doesn't make sense to buy unless you plan to live until age 150 or so.

Then there is:

3. While you cannot 'own' the land you can definitely lease it. Also if you have children you will leave them something valuable. Instead of giving your money away to a house owner, you are investing it for your own family. And there's a very different feeling to living in a place you 'own': you get to live in exactly the place that you want to live in, every baht spent increases your living experience.

All replies below will fall into one of these. As for the actual building process, it's a full time job for about a year just to overasee everything and make sure it happens right. I will PM you a link to a topic about a guy building a house and posting weekly updates, it's incredible and shows very well what you can achieve buidling your own place to your own tastes instead of a cookie cutter development home. (Needs to be PM because not alowed to post links.)

[Thighlander]

regarding the lease issue if you buy a house say for 5 million thats about 100.000 pounds and have it for 30 years

and it all goes wrong and you cant renew the lease whats 100.000 over 30 years not much

im 38 so if i was to do it id be 68 when it ran out so not really an issue

i think the best way to look at it and this is only what iv found is never ever spend money or invest here

unless you can afford to loose it you never know when the government will change there mind about something retirement visa marriage visa work permits

they really are not consistent about these things

i own condos thats a very easy and stress less option and 100 percent in my name but they you are limited to space

and you get a lot more for you money with a house just a bigger risk only you can decide if its worth it

and the main reason a studio costs more at Hillside, than a house at BanWangtan is the lack of stability with the ownership. I almost bought a condo in CHiang Rai last fall. The deal breaker was cracks in the concrete (earthquake anybody?). I felt real good about the Chinot, and there were no dogs allowed in the building. I think Home In the Park is nice, and pricier than most of Wangtan, but my friend was paying 28,000 per month, and there was the good ole Siberian Husky chained up across the street. Forget about the picket fence and the garden--roses are 50 THB for 25, and pineapples were 6 THB last Fall--go for a small condo in a good location--stay out of Death Race 2011, CNX, and you just might be able to comfortably survive.

[pjclark1]

I have been a renter here for many many years. I like that I have an option of moving whenever I like, and I don't have to give away my money and housing rights to a Thai person. I would suggest that you rent a place you like, and don't throw away your money...

11 years at 5,000 a month is definitely cheaper than owning I believe

Same here, I am living in a house that would cost 1 - 1.5 million baht

The rental is 5,000bht a month 60,000bht a year (if I were Thai I could have knocked it down another 1,000 bht)

The most money I can lose is 5,000bht

I have never lost my deposit, I just moved and the last landlord kept 2,000bht back for my outstanding utility bills.

I didn't think he would get enough change to make it worth my while going back.

TIT

If you buy you will be cheated

If you build you will be cheated

If you rent you will be cheated

Foreigners pay more, but the cheating in rentals takes far less of your money.

For those of you who play the Thai wife property lottery and won, good on you.

Your house didn't fall down, your wife didn't cheat you, nobody opened a Karaoke next door, the exchange rates were favorable, your mooban wasn't abandoned.

But I would estimate for every 1 person who won, another 5 people lost.

In the end even the winners are losers.

You are now stuck with a Thai wife who watches you like a hawk, is 15 years older and a lot less attractive than when you met her!

Edited March 15, 2011 by pjclark1

[mkawish]

I have been a renter here for many many years. I like that I have an option of moving whenever I like, and I don't have to give away my money and housing rights to a Thai person. I would suggest that you rent a place you like, and don't throw away your money...

11 years at 5,000 a month is definitely cheaper than owning I believe

Same here, I am living in a house that would cost 1 - 1.5 million baht

The rental is 5,000bht a month 60,000bht a year (if I were Thai I could have knocked it down another 1,000 bht)

The most money I can lose is 5,000bht

I have never lost my deposit, I just moved and the last landlord kept 2,000bht back for my outstanding utility bills.

I didn't think he would get enough change to make it worth my while going back.

TIT

If you buy you will be cheated

If you build you will be cheated

If you rent you will be cheated

Foreigners pay more, but the cheating in rentals takes far less of your money.

For those of you who play the Thai wife property lottery and won, good on you.

Your house didn't fall down, your wife didn't cheat you, nobody opened a Karaoke next door, the exchange rates were favorable, your mooban wasn't abandoned.

But I would estimate for every 1 person who won, another 5 people lost.

In the end even the winners are losers.

You are now stuck with a Thai wife who watches you like a hawk, is 15 years older and a lot less attractive than when you met her!

If Thailand fails to meet your expectation.... perhaps, Cambodia might offer even more options.... what do you say friend?

However, kidding aside.... why felt so bitter and so disappointed in life....?

That surely is not the way to a good life in Thailand.... is it?

Cheers mate.... let bygone be bygone.... and

CHEER UP.... what can we do to cheer you up some....?

[Tonto21]

Bottom line if you really want to do this, you first better have a Thai friend, who you can trust, and cash to build, it's that simple. I believe the best option is rent the land, (in the form of a lease) and you own the buildings you constuct on said land, (all documented at the land office) This way YOU are in control of what you own and have paid for, no one else can sell it from under you, Ideally get said Thai friend to buy, (wink, wink) the land, and then on paper you lease it from them. even they, down the road can't screw you over then. Your Thai friend, better be a good friend, and if willing can act as 'Clark of works' for the construction, ( best for a fee, don't take the piss) you purchase the materials and pay the builder for construction only. I'm no expert, but I would stay waaaaaaay clear of any off the cuff offers to build you a house, you need to be the one doing the leading.

If you don't have a trustworthy Thai friend, keep your money in the bank.

I have done the above, I feel quite smug now as thing all worked out very well for me. We all have heard of the horror stories about building houses here, fact is there is an element of luck if a westerner builds a house and all go's well. Bottom line you need a Thai person you can trust 100%, if not forget it……..Good luck

Edited March 15, 2011 by Tonto21

[DavidOxon]

I would also like to recommend Graham at Kensington

D

[Escondido]

There's three kinds of replies you will get from this

1. You're not Thai, you cannot own land. Why purchase something you cannot own. That's just nuts. If and when Thailand graduates to the league of sane countries, I can look at house ownership again.

Then there is:

2. Prices of land, and building are quite high compared to rents. You can easily find houses that the owners want millions and millions of baht for to buy, but well under 10K to rent! With price levels as they are, it just doesn't make sense to buy unless you plan to live until age 150 or so.

Then there is:

3. While you cannot 'own' the land you can definitely lease it. Also if you have children you will leave them something valuable. Instead of giving your money away to a house owner, you are investing it for your own family. And there's a very different feeling to living in a place you 'own': you get to live in exactly the place that you want to live in, every baht spent increases your living experience.

All replies below will fall into one of these. As for the actual building process, it's a full time job for about a year just to overasee everything and make sure it happens right. I will PM you a link to a topic about a guy building a house and posting weekly updates, it's incredible and shows very well what you can achieve buidling your own place to your own tastes instead of a cookie cutter development home. (Needs to be PM because not alowed to post links.)

I'd appreciate it if you wold PM the link to the site you mentioned. Thanks

[ThaiPauly]

There is to much arguing and flaming going on here for my liking.

Please stick to answering the OP's question if you have some helpful advice.

If not then DON'T POST.

I have not changed or deleted anything so far , but I will if things start getting nasty again.

As one poster said "another thread gone to shit"...well that should not be happening.

Please leave personal issues out of this and just stick to facts.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for my two satangs worth, I had my house built by a Thai company, and I'm happy with it, I have been in it six years and its still standing and everything works The only problem I had was that they built it only 90% square,they told me this themselves and gave me 10% off the already agreed price, I was happy with that, nobody has ever noticed except the company that built my fitted wardobes could not understand while after measuring each side of the wall they did not fit, but a small re-adjustment and they were fine.

But I too have heard some really good stories about Kensington Builders , and if I was in the market for building another house I would certainly get a quote from them.

[huli]

My Thai wife and I returned to her hometown of Chiang Mai about a year and a half ago. She lived with me in America for 8 years. At first we lived with her mother and kids while we considered where to move permanently. We ended up buying land in the general neighborhood and building our house last year from April-August. We decided not to do the usual thing and get a house out in a mooban somewhere, but to get a place more centrally located to the old town. We were lucky enough to get a good deal on the land. There are still parcels available but most owners are holding out for a high price. We made our own rough blueprint, and a government official did the legal one and got it all approved for about $1K. We hired a Thai contractor and crew to build the property border walls and the house, after getting a few bids. We bought all the materials ourselves and they did the labor only. We've been in the house since last August.

Not that there weren't problems during construction. We were here every day and often had to go shopping for something 2-3 times a day. They were not very good about predicting their needs. I kept their spirits up (pardon the pun) by buying them cigarettes and soft drinks daily, with lunches and booze after work every few days. Along the way, there were occasions where we had to pay extra for work that was not included, like building the kitchen counters. The biggest problem was that it took longer than it was supposed to because the workers quit coming and the crew dwindled in size. At one point the contractor wanted to quit. Also, we paid the contractor in installments, and he ended up asking us to pay him early, and we would give him some. He took a personal beating over this project which was ambitious for him. He lost a lot of the money gambling, and drank heavily, the workers had to wait and wait to get paid. His truck was repossessed and he had to rent one to bring the workers everyday. Some of the workers had no other options and kept coming to work. Many took other jobs or just quit. The low point was one day when only two guys showed up for a major cement pour, and the contractor was so hung over he couldn't help either. My wife and I carried buckets of cement all day but the job got done. My wife and I built the house together as a married couple, and I have an usufuct on the property. It is a very spacious two bedroom one story house of 108 sq meters with a wrap around roofed patio of 50 sq meters. We got the land for about 2.6 mil baht/144 talang wa. The house ended up costing us about 1.5 mil.

I am very pleased with the end result.

I really enjoy living this close to town, and in five minutes I can be anywhere on the bike.

That's my experience. Good luck to you!

[jackr]

Same here, I am living in a house that would cost 1 - 1.5 million baht

The rental is 5,000bht a month 60,000bht a year (if I were Thai I could have knocked it down another 1,000 bht)

The most money I can lose is 5,000bht

Actually, you lose every month.

Anyway, lot of iffy, rubbishy info on here. Op, you'd get better feedback (minus the crap) from folk who know what they're talking about on coolthaihouse.

[THAIPHUKET]

Same here, I am living in a house that would cost 1 - 1.5 million baht

The rental is 5,000bht a month 60,000bht a year (if I were Thai I could have knocked it down another 1,000 bht)

The most money I can lose is 5,000bht

Actually, you lose every month.

Anyway, lot of iffy, rubbishy info on here. Op, you'd get better feedback (minus the crap) from folk who know what they're talking about on coolthaihouse.

Now this is too me a totally useless comment from a Titanium member, if you have something more elaborate or enlightening, pls do so.

[pjclark1]

Same here, I am living in a house that would cost 1 - 1.5 million baht

The rental is 5,000bht a month 60,000bht a year (if I were Thai I could have knocked it down another 1,000 bht)

The most money I can lose is 5,000bht

Actually, you lose every month.

Anyway, lot of iffy, rubbishy info on here. Op, you'd get better feedback (minus the crap) from folk who know what they're talking about on coolthaihouse.

1.5 million bht parked in an Australian term deposit account at 7% (-10% withholding tax) = 94,500 bht

Rental of the house = 60,000 bht

I seem to gain 2,800 bht a month by renting and that's without me accounting for wear, tear and maintenance on the house.

And less risk of losing the capital investment!

Edited March 20, 2011 by pjclark1

[DavidOxon]

Same here, I am living in a house that would cost 1 - 1.5 million baht

The rental is 5,000bht a month 60,000bht a year (if I were Thai I could have knocked it down another 1,000 bht)

The most money I can lose is 5,000bht

Actually, you lose every month.

Anyway, lot of iffy, rubbishy info on here. Op, you'd get better feedback (minus the crap) from folk who know what they're talking about on coolthaihouse.

1.5 million bht parked in an Australian term deposit account at 7% (-10% withholding tax) = 94,500 bht

Rental of the house = 60,000 bht

I seem to gain 2,800 bht a month by renting and that's without me accounting for wear, tear and maintenance on the house.

And less risk of losing the capital investment!

I think you're missing inflation and appreciation/deppreiation in your equation somewhere!

My one point about build a house from scratch...

what happens if you don't like it when you've finished it and you can't sell it?

david

[Dante99]

My one point about build a house from scratch...

what happens if you don't like it when you've finished it and you can't sell it?

david

It would not speak highly for a person's intelligence if they built a house for themselves which they did not like.

[pjclark1]

I think you're missing inflation and appreciation/deppreiation in your equation somewhere!

And you are assuming house prices will go up, your wife won't take it from you, no earthquakes and no karaoke bar built next door.

[meithai]

Bottom line if you really want to do this, you first better have a Thai friend, who you can trust, and cash to build, it's that simple. I believe the best option is rent the land, (in the form of a lease) and you own the buildings you constuct on said land, (all documented at the land office) This way YOU are in control of what you own and have paid for, no one else can sell it from under you, Ideally get said Thai friend to buy, (wink, wink) the land, and then on paper you lease it from them. even they, down the road can't screw you over then. Your Thai friend, better be a good friend, and if willing can act as 'Clark of works' for the construction, ( best for a fee, don't take the piss) you purchase the materials and pay the builder for construction only. I'm no expert, but I would stay waaaaaaay clear of any off the cuff offers to build you a house, you need to be the one doing the leading.

If you don't have a trustworthy Thai friend, keep your money in the bank.

I have done the above, I feel quite smug now as thing all worked out very well for me. We all have heard of the horror stories about building houses here, fact is there is an element of luck if a westerner builds a house and all go's well. Bottom line you need a Thai person you can trust 100%, if not forget it……..Good luck

Hi, I have a Thai friend I can trust, but he is 20 years older than me. What would happen in the event that the lease holder died before me?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Bottom line if you really want to do this, you first better have a Thai friend, who you can trust, and cash to build, it's that simple. I believe the best option is rent the land, (in the form of a lease) and you own the buildings you constuct on said land, (all documented at the land office) This way YOU are in control of what you own and have paid for, no one else can sell it from under you, Ideally get said Thai friend to buy, (wink, wink) the land, and then on paper you lease it from them. even they, down the road can't screw you over then. Your Thai friend, better be a good friend, and if willing can act as 'Clark of works' for the construction, ( best for a fee, don't take the piss) you purchase the materials and pay the builder for construction only. I'm no expert, but I would stay waaaaaaay clear of any off the cuff offers to build you a house, you need to be the one doing the leading.

If you don't have a trustworthy Thai friend, keep your money in the bank.

I have done the above, I feel quite smug now as thing all worked out very well for me. We all have heard of the horror stories about building houses here, fact is there is an element of luck if a westerner builds a house and all go's well. Bottom line you need a Thai person you can trust 100%, if not forget it……..Good luck

Hi, I have a Thai friend I can trust, but he is 20 years older than me. What would happen in the event that the lease holder died before me?

He could be 20 years younger and still be hit by a bus tomorrow. Either way, he owns the land, so his partner/children inherit it. You still hold the lease of course, but you never owned the land. When the lease is up, the person/people who inherited it are free to do anything with it, it's theirs. This is why an 'option to extend' a lease is such utter bullshit.

[funlovinkid]

Thanks, Tpthai2, your nice message, makes it worthwhile to post here. I may never be PC here for those with rose colored glasses, but I have been here a long time, been through almost every situation that can go badly here, and did go bad here, and I am still here, so I think I am worthy of my opinions, but some people just can't accept that.

No big deal, they will pay later ...are probably paying now, but just haven't realized it yet. But I always appreciate any sane answers here, as those are far and few between, and not normally from newbies.

Amykat, a couple of thoughts here. First of all, thank you for your original post, it was very helpful food for thought, which is EXACTLY why I'm on this forum in the first place. Secondly, I can understand why some of the detracting comments offered by others would explain why you might want to resist the urge to post here. I've had the very same experience, attracting lots of people who tried to entice me into an argument. My opinion is that these people tend to be snipers, someone who shoots when they feel it's safe, and hide when it's not, and unfortunately these forums are a perfect place for them to hide. For one, I have no respect for this. My feeling is that in general, these are unhappy people, and can only derive a sense of satisfaction when they've successfully ruined someone else's day. They deserve our pity, not our anger, but most certainly not our energy. Life is too short for that. The only mistake you might be accused of was allowing yourself to be baited into a dialogue with someone with unfriendly intentions, who was just hoping you would take the bait. For myself, I might or might not agree with everything you include in a post, but I like to think that I'm able to accept the constructive information you offer, without feeling a need to point out something with which I disagree. In any event, I hope you continue making the effort to post your comments here, and not allow yourself to fall silent because of any detractors. We all benefit from sharing in each other's experiences here in Thailand, and unfortunately, in order for this to work, I think we have to learn to expect - and ignore - unfriendly comments. Remember that there will always be those of us out here who are silently appreciative of the time and effort you invest in helping us, and hopefully, at some point, it will be our turn to share something useful as well.

[KRS1]

What a crock. Only Western builders know how to build houses? There are many reputable and talented Thai architects and contractors. There are a lot of rednecks with trucks that will tell you they know what to do. If you are willing to put the entire property in someone elses name and have no legal claim to it whatsoever (seems stupid) then drive around find the house that you like and ask the people who built it. That simple. You will find and get what you want.

I would advise against dealing with expats living here that do construction. They will charge you 5 million for a 3 million baht build. I have never met an long term expat here that didn't over value his/her skills. Since many foreigners don't actually know the Thai materials you would actually end up paying more because they don't often know the simple solutions that all Thais know.

There are many homes that are 60-80 years old that still look good and they were built by Thais.

So don't assume that everything western made is better.

Not that I often do so, but I agree with Winnie 110%. Renting is much cheaper in the long run and since you don't actually own the property if you buy it, it isn't worth it. Though many trust their wives and there are many women in the world that aren't gold diggers, when a relationship ends it brings out the worst in all people. You won't see any of your investment. My father was married three times (in the US) and each one took him for all he had.

Listen to this guy...

[TheFishman1]

I was in the beginning ejoying the post and most of the replys for a while,I have lived in several different country's and planning on moving very soon to CM.After reading everthing like WOW LOL

[insertmembernamehere]

Huli:

My wife and I built the house together as a married couple, and I have a usufuct on the property.

You might want to take a close look at 1469 CCCT.

Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/326630-land-usufruct-or-rent-agreement/

[PoodMaiDai]

My friend built an INCREDIBLE house in Chonburi by flying in a few Mexicans home builders and an American buddy who worked in the construction business. With the help of only ONE Thai (his wife's brother), they built one of the highest quality homes I've ever seen in Thailand and it was hassle free. Everything went as planned, finished quickly, and was done fairly cheap. It was off the road enough that no one noticed anything.

Literally, everyone else I personally know who used Thais to build their homes have been cheated, ripped off, or ended up with sub par quality. Those of you who have had positive Thai building experiences are in the minority and are lucky. From what I understand, the best Thai workers work commercial jobs for much higher wages.

[highonthai]

Building a house here is like buliding one anywhere, their are going to be many problems that you will have to deal with.

Built my house 7 years ago to my standards and over saw the project with qualified THAI builders to western standards.

No regrets, and the value has doubled.

Don't let the "you cant own" and your "crazy to buy a house here" posters put a damper on your desion to build your place.