Police Move In To Disperse PAD Rally In Bangkok

[jimbeam1]

This latest action by the Reds just proves how low they will stoop to get their own way.

Thai People love the Red Cross Fairs that are held all over Thailand every year.

The Reds are so selfish they only want to show they can bring this country to it's knees again

Forget the election this now proves who is really running the country now.............................THE REDS !!

Why is this government so weak ?

They know the Reds cannot be trusted to keep their word and just protest peacefully and disperse when asked to.

Just how many Millions will this cost Thai people this time in lost business and extra security to control a bunch of thugs ?

Can people who cannot keep their word be trusted to run this country ?

This includes the Government and ALL protesters who renege on their agreements

I hope the costs for all these so called protests come from Mr. Ts seized millions

Do you mean YELLOW ?

jb1

[ianf]

ASTV claiming that protesters are being prevented from entering protest site /TAN_Network

They were given advanced warning, that the Red Cross Fair had permits to use that area, and had gotten them well ahead of time. Apparently PAD believes Possession is 9/10 the law.

Since 5 years PAD IS the law.

They want Taksin out and he's out.

They want the Dems in charge and they are.

They want the Reds killed and there were.

They want the war against Cambodia and it's there.

They have SO powerful support.

Let's see what their support will do today.

What utter nonsense.

[webfact]

2 policemen slightly injured in failed operation to remove protesters' toilets

Two policemen were injured when about 700 of them were deployed to protect city workers to remove toilets of the yellow-shirt protesters Monday morning met with resistance by the yellow-shirt protesters.

The operation was aborted after the protesters led by the People's Alliance for Democracy surrounded the offices and prevented workers of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration from moving in to demolish the make-shift toilets on the Phitsanulok Road at 5 am.

Some protesters threw water bottles at the policemen, slightly injuring two of them.

The policemen were pulled out from the protest site at 9 am.

-- The Nation 2011-03-14

[chachachacha]

I bet you have a white stick or you are a bad comedian.Would you like to define freedom to me. Is it the right to have your vote ignored by a military junta governerment by proxy. I think it is you that needs to get a life

Calling the government (duly elected as even the red shirt English language spokesman Sean B. stated publicly) a junta government by proxy is just plain silly.

Not silly just fact junta government by proxy

[chachachacha]

This is all just kid's stuff. When the inevitable happens, I fear that Thailand is in for a massive uprising similar to what we are currently seeing in the middle east. Just my humble opinion. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

You are wrong, Thai people are Not Arabs... and most are law abiding citizens who are quite happy with this amazing country ther way it is.... Most Thais have jobs , freedom and food... I do not see many starving people here... and now Thaksin is not here, certainly no Dictator.... Get a life..!!!

I bet you have a white stick or you are a bad comedian.Would you like to define freedom to me. Is it the right to have your vote ignored by a military junta governerment by proxy. I think it is you that needs to get a life

What hysterical baseless cant cha cha

Baseless ? How many coups have there been .Or are you saying that the army know what the people want .

[hawker]

This is all just kid's stuff. When the inevitable happens, I fear that Thailand is in for a massive uprising similar to what we are currently seeing in the middle east. Just my humble opinion. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

You are wrong, Thai people are Not Arabs... and most are law abiding citizens who are quite happy with this amazing country ther way it is.... Most Thais have jobs , freedom and food... I do not see many starving people here... and now Thaksin is not here, certainly no Dictator.... Get a life..!!!

I bet you have a white stick or you are a bad comedian.Would you like to define freedom to me. Is it the right to have your vote ignored by a military junta governerment by proxy. I think it is you that needs to get a life

This kind of comparison shows not the least understanding of the motivation behind, or even genuine interest in, the arab uprisings. That assumption that the "opposition means death" regimes in the middle east somehow equate to conditions in Thailand is just absurd. Purely and plainly absurd. To suggest otherwise is just an attempt to stir up trouble and agitate. Not arguing here about voting rights, consitutional issues, and marginalization. These days, we even have those issues in the States! Am saying that issues facing Arabs are entirely a different animal. In Libya the rebels/insurgents/opposition are being openly attacked with military force. In SA, force was also used openly by the police. Even in Egypt, where violence was minimal and the outcome relatively benign, we were talking about a dicatator who'd been in power for 30 years. The list of differences and contrasts is endless. Why in the world would anyone compare Thailand to the middle east, except as a simple-minded, anything-goes, expression of opposition to the present government? You're not happy with that government. We get it. But it doesn't mean there's any similarity whatsoever to what's going on in the middle east.

[jayboy]

I bet you have a white stick or you are a bad comedian.Would you like to define freedom to me. Is it the right to have your vote ignored by a military junta governerment by proxy. I think it is you that needs to get a life

Calling the government (duly elected as even the red shirt English language spokesman Sean B. stated publicly) a junta government by proxy is just plain silly.

Possibly but even Khun Korn, Finance Minister, in his recent interview with Andrew Spooner recognised that the way government had come to power wasn't particularly satisfactory.

Since you openly show contempt for knowledge of history, politics and context it's not surprising that perfectly reasonable assertions sound "silly".There is a good case to be made that the current Democrat led government represents elite interests and was guided to power in a shabby and ant-democratic way.If you ever read around this subject you might be able to mount a sensible counter argument (there is one I agree).As it is you just sound...well, silly.

[diehard60]

Who cares? Bulldozers and APV's work.... So does water canon. There is simply no need for protests now. Reflect your displeasure in a 'vote'.

Yea maybe but the yellow shirts dont listen to anyone either so who cares? They never used those things on the yellow shirts, now did they. Or are you talkig out your............... because your mouth knows better.5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

[jdinasia]

Jayboy with more personal attacks as fits his agenda.

Strange that he admitted "possibly" then goes on to suggest that the poster (me) had "never read around the subject" which is not true in the least but when you can't address the discussion point with anything other than "possibly" it only leaves ad hominem attacks. When the red spokesperson states that the government was legitimately elected in Thailand it IS silly to suggest otherwise. That fact doesn't affect that many people would have preferred to see fresh elections

[jdinasia]

Who cares? Bulldozers and APV's work.... So does water canon. There is simply no need for protests now. Reflect your displeasure in a 'vote'.

Yea maybe but the yellow shirts dont listen to anyone either so who cares? They never used those things on the yellow shirts, now did they. Or are you talkig out your............... because your mouth knows better.5555555555555555555555555555555555555555555555

No, they used RDX laced chinese military ordnance teargas, when Sae Daeng's people weren't firing grenades at the yellows.

[swillowbee]

This is all just kid's stuff. When the inevitable happens, I fear that Thailand is in for a massive uprising similar to what we are currently seeing in the middle east. Just my humble opinion. I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

You are wrong, Thai people are Not Arabs... and most are law abiding citizens who are quite happy with this amazing country ther way it is.... Most Thais have jobs , freedom and food... I do not see many starving people here... and now Thaksin is not here, certainly no Dictator.... Get a life..!!!

I bet you have a white stick or you are a bad comedian.Would you like to define freedom to me. Is it the right to have your vote ignored by a military junta governerment by proxy. I think it is you that needs to get a life

... I agree with kissrev1 ... revolution is in the Thai air ... whether it is violent, or not, will be a test of the Thai social, legal, political, and (you have to throw-in) military systems ... my fear is that the Buddhist 'middle way' that has long pacified the marginalized prai here is giving way to intolerance ... those who live here have all seen compliant individual Thais reach their breaking point, suddenly 'snap' and start indescriminately swinging clubs and sharp things ... this seems to be move evident in the broader Thai group behavior, as with last May's street combat .. and, importantly, these are not militant students and extremeists ... they are labor class Thais, as many women as men.

... like in the Middle East and North Africa, through the magic of the Internet, social networking, international media, etc., the largely non-reading, illiterate upcountry Thais now see far past the local kamnans, the patrons upon whom they previously relied for 'what to do' ... they are now glimpsing a new concept that is changing the traditional view of themselves as indentured to an ensconsed feudal system of entitled classes ... they are starting to "get" basic human rights, as first articulated by the Scotish Enlightenment, then the European Enlightenment, and then the American Enlightment (social and economic ideals adopted in the west CENTURIES ago).

... I think these guys are now unwilling to take it anymore ... the entitled Thai elitist might no longer rely upon a subserviant, suppressed and oppressed population to be satisfied with their bowl of rice, their 1-rai of land, their Buddha, and their King (taught to them as the ultimate goal beyond which they should not aspire).

... this election season might well be a game-changer if the Democrats prevail in any way, shape, or fashion ... while the Democrats have the guns, the Reds know they have the numbers (apologies to Jim Morrison) ... we know the elections will be rife with corruption (both sides) ... historically, corrupt polls are groused over by the politicians, back room deals are struck and it all goes away ... this is what Thais know as 'democracy', and so they compliantly accept the poll results.

... this election might be different ... if the Reds, now intolerant and no longer compliant, finally see the Thai political system as interminably corrupt and incapable of addressing their needs, they could resort to alternative methods that are not political and not so pretty.

... I would love to see otherwise, but my antennae are quivering ... a lot! ... I've lived here 10+ years ... freinds who've lived here 2 and 3 times longer than me, knowledgeable guys, also sense a disquieting tension threatening to irreparably rip the Thai social fabric.

... the conflict has migrated beyond Thailand's patronage politics, and toward class warfare.

Edited March 14, 2011 by swillowbee

[jayboy]

Jayboy with more personal attacks as fits his agenda.

Strange that he admitted "possibly" then goes on to suggest that the poster (me) had "never read around the subject" which is not true in the least but when you can't address the discussion point with anything other than "possibly" it only leaves ad hominem attacks. When the red spokesperson states that the government was legitimately elected in Thailand it IS silly to suggest otherwise. That fact doesn't affect that many people would have preferred to see fresh elections

If you have read around the subject, why do you consistently refuse to name even one book you have found illuminating? I even promised not to enter into a discussion about your choice, a prospect you found alarming.

I note you avoid dealing with the main issue of the way the current government was guided to power

[philhal2]

UMMMM Has anyone ever told or attempted to educate the REDSHIRTS to use their voting power and stop selling their votes to whoever gives them 100 Baht and some free Buffalo ??????

YES ITS TRUE . This year someone is arranging volleyball games , parties , free beef , and 150 Baht in exchange for rural votes !! This comes from the family of my friends who live near Bueng Kan the newest province . Somebody wants to be elected !!

Edited March 14, 2011 by philhal2

[Pi Sek]

I bet you have a white stick or you are a bad comedian.Would you like to define freedom to me. Is it the right to have your vote ignored by a military junta governerment by proxy. I think it is you that needs to get a life

Calling the government (duly elected as even the red shirt English language spokesman Sean B. stated publicly) a junta government by proxy is just plain silly.

Not silly just fact junta government by proxy

No, it really is just plain silly. Can one of the more informed pro-red posters please confirm this for chachachacha's benefit? jayboy? emptyset? hanuman1?

Not a perfect way of getting into govt maybe, and arguments and rumours to suggest it might have been brokered, but definitely not a "junta government by proxy".

[jdinasia]

Jayboy with more personal attacks as fits his agenda.

Strange that he admitted "possibly" then goes on to suggest that the poster (me) had "never read around the subject" which is not true in the least but when you can't address the discussion point with anything other than "possibly" it only leaves ad hominem attacks. When the red spokesperson states that the government was legitimately elected in Thailand it IS silly to suggest otherwise. That fact doesn't affect that many people would have preferred to see fresh elections

If you have read around the subject, why do you consistently refuse to name even one book you have found illuminating? I even promised not to enter into a discussion about your choice, a prospect you found alarming.

I note you avoid dealing with the main issue of the way the current government was guided to power

Neither avoided "the main issue" ("That fact doesn't affect many that would have preferred to see fresh elections") nor is that in fact the main issue of this thread or of my counter-argument to a silly statement.

You started in on other people about reading before you singled me out for your new tangential tirades. I choose not to play that game. What purpose is there to list a bibliography to someone that always resorts to ad hominem attacks and that doesn't have a bearing on the discussions? I would think that direct refutation of cited references (which I have done repeatedly) would suffice

Your suggesting I found something "alarming" is simply crap. You have no idea what I find "alarming" but I can tell you honestly that nothing you have ever directed at me has been alarming at all.

[dumpling]

Why don't they just split the fuc_king country in two: one half ruled by the reds and the other by yellows.

Surely that'll solve all the problems?

Except that I fall in neither camp. I guess everyone else will just have to stay in Bangkok.

what !

like Korea ?

[hanuman1]

Calling the government (duly elected as even the red shirt English language spokesman Sean B. stated publicly) a junta government by proxy is just plain silly.

Not silly just fact junta government by proxy

No, it really is just plain silly. Can one of the more informed pro-red posters please confirm this for chachachacha's benefit? jayboy? emptyset? hanuman1?

Not a perfect way of getting into govt maybe, and arguments and rumours to suggest it might have been brokered, but definitely not a "junta government by proxy".

Thanks for putting me in a group with Emptyset and Jayboy but I'm nowhere near as well read as they are on subjects related to this.

All I can bring are observations such as how the Thai Police have now managed to show an entirely level approach to dealing with both Yellow and Red shirted rallies. Ineffective towards both. There's one 'double standards' debate we thankfully won't be having....

Edited March 14, 2011 by hanuman1

[Pi Sek]

Haha! Brilliant!

But then, we all know why policemen join the police in Thailand. And it's not to put themselves in the line of danger.

[pedro01]

It's nice to see the police making efforts here again.

There's not a lot of difference between treatment of reds & yellows here. Reds were given a lot of slack until they got out of hand. The Yellows have been given a lot of slack and the police tested the waters today. Obviously - if things looked to get out of hand, the police were probably wise to back off but that does delay the problem not solve it.

The police are fairly weak in their ability to handle situations like this and the army coming in may be seen by the crowds as a reason to let all hell break loose at which point the army will defend themselves with the weapons at hand.

Thailand just doesn't have good crowd control measures. In any case, wherever you are in the world - breaking up a protest like this inevitably results in injuries. These are not the responsbility of those breaking up the protest but the responsibility of those illegally occupying public highways.

[jayboy]

Neither avoided "the main issue" ("That fact doesn't affect many that would have preferred to see fresh elections") nor is that in fact the main issue of this thread or of my counter-argument to a silly statement.

You started in on other people about reading before you singled me out for your new tangential tirades. I choose not to play that game. What purpose is there to list a bibliography to someone that always resorts to ad hominem attacks and that doesn't have a bearing on the discussions? I would think that direct refutation of cited references (which I have done repeatedly) would suffice

Your suggesting I found something "alarming" is simply crap. You have no idea what I find "alarming" but I can tell you honestly that nothing you have ever directed at me has been alarming at all.

More bluster and evasion, though reading the tea leaves it seems you now concede there is a problem with the way this government came to power.Not the line you took in the past.

Yes I have asked a few of the right wing hardliners whether there is any book which has informed their understanding of Thailand.I asked because (with the exception of Bucholz, who has some selective background well though is weak at analysing it) there seemed to be profound ignorance of recent history, let alone interpreting it.All including you have refused so I draw my own conclusions.I said you were alarmed because you provided as an excuse an unwillingness to get into mudslinging.I promised to note the book concerned and shut up.Still, nothing....

[chachachacha]

No, it really is just plain silly. Can one of the more informed pro-red posters please confirm this for chachachacha's benefit? jayboy? emptyset? hanuman1?

Not a perfect way of getting into govt maybe, and arguments and rumours to suggest it might have been brokered, but definitely not a "junta government by proxy".

I dont need people to explain to me what this government is . They can wrap it in layers & layers of BS but behind it all is the army Generals with their agenda. The reds was voted into power yet was not allowed to take their place in government .

Really I don't expect many from the west to see through all them layers .Reason ? well people from the west claim they come from the free world . I did ask in 1 of my post for someone to define Free to me . It is just that I can't define free world when the citizens from such self proclaiming countries actually have to ask permission to marry or to take their wife home with them . (NOT ME I DONT DO WIVES) & I am not from the so called free world I come from the UK

[mkawish]

do the police selectively decide which groups can or cant demonstrate?'

am I correct:

if PAD demonstrates, the police try to do something to stop it.

if the red shirts demonstrate, the police do nothing?

is that correct? or am I wrong?

That is pretty much the way it has been appearing so far....

are you trying to make a point of sort....?

[jdinasia]

Yet more personal attacks by jayboy .... again listing a bibliography serves no purpose and is (yet again) off topic. All apparently, including me, refuse to be baited by you.

He started with the "profound ignorance" baiting with things like the CPT and army crackdowns (even when shown the direct relevance). You are welcome to whatever opinion you have of the scope of my knowledge I have my own opinions about some posters and their credibility on many issues not the least of which include ethnic bigotry .. since it isn't relevant to the topic it doesn't get brought up.

I found myself about to offer you the chance to come by and peruse my library and mention some books by author, then realized it would be giving in to your off-topic, ad hominem attacks.

[pedro01]

do the police selectively decide which groups can or cant demonstrate?'

am I correct:

if PAD demonstrates, the police try to do something to stop it.

if the red shirts demonstrate, the police do nothing?

is that correct? or am I wrong?

That is pretty much the way it has been appearing so far....

are you trying to make a point of sort....?

This is certainly not the case as evidenced by what is actually happening.

The red and yellow protests both saw attempts by the police and in both cases the police didn't follow through for whatever reasons.

What happened today is no sign that the police are anti-yellow/pro-red at all.

[hanuman1]

Whilst the calling out of right-wingers on this thread is all well and good (and apparently easy), I'd like to steer it back for a moment to the original post.

With the apparent inability of the police to control crowds of any persuation, does anyone know if the current government's policies include increased funding for the pay/training/equipment of police forces? I think there was some talk of increased pay, but training seems to be equally needed.

I suspect that had the police been able to do their job a year ago, significantly less military personnel - and therefore deaths - would have occurred in the protest zone.

Cheers.

[Pi Sek]

Whilst the calling out of right-wingers on this thread is all well and good (and apparently easy), I'd like to steer it back for a moment to the original post.

With the apparent inability of the police to control crowds of any persuation, does anyone know if the current government's policies include increased funding for the pay/training/equipment of police forces? I think there was some talk of increased pay, but training seems to be equally needed.

I suspect that had the police been able to do their job a year ago, significantly less military personnel - and therefore deaths - would have occurred in the protest zone.

Cheers.

Yes, but then the increase in pay was to try and diminsh the police's need to be extremely corrupt, not to improve their performance (although that was touted as an additional reason).

Otherwise I must say that your post is once again very illuminating.

:jap:

[dunkin2012]

They both have the right to protest but under the same rules and regulations of the country then. But please to use force and violence to get though your ways. Until now the government can't catch the one that assassinated a few top ranged military personnel on the spot plus a Japanese news reporter. It was more or less close to warfare. It's really a big headache being the PM. For now I can list some of the issues arisen :

1. Cambodian disputed territory

2. out of supply the Cooking Oil

3. Eggs/weight

4. southern guerrilla

5. Jailed 2 activists in Cambodia.

6. PAD rally protest for Gov. resign

7. RED representing the poor to crackdown the Gov. again to bring back the big boss in Montenegro.

8. Land reform protesters... they are somewhere in BKK.

9. giant conglomerate cigarette corp tax avoiding

10. many corruptions from the cabinet

11. A childish Foreign Minister

12. Bombs detect toys (gone quiet)

13.Huge commission on many

and many more.....

Edited March 14, 2011 by dunkin2012

[powderpuff]

Better for the Army to deal with it from the outset. They have better weapons.

The Reds want to die for their cause. I would accomodate them.

[webfact]

Govt Insists on Reclaiming Protest Site for Red Cross Fair

The deputy premier overseeing security affairs said security officials are reclaiming some areas of the yellow-shirt rally site to allow related agencies to prepare for the upcoming Red Cross fair.

Suthep Thaugsuban, the deputy prime minister in charge of security affairs, said police had to reclaim some parts of the People's Alliance for Democracy, of PAD, protest site this morning.

However, Suthep went on to say that the operation to retake some parts of the rally site did not succeed, but authorities asked the demonstrators to open one more traffic lane and move further away from the area where the annual Red Cross fair is to be held.

Asked about possible talks on seeking a new demonstration site for the PAD supporters, the deputy prime minister said the idea will be considered later.

Earlier, PAD leader Chumlong Srimuang said if the protest is dispersed by the government, the group will seize a nearby area as a new rally site and camp out there.

In response to Chumlong's statement, Suthep countered that such a threat will not benefit any side and affirmed that the government has never made any threat.

In a related issue, the Thai Patriots Network, or TPN, requested use of an area next to the National Anti-Corruption Commission head office, but the deputy PM said if there is any relocation, the TPN supporters must move farther away than that.

He added that relevant officials are negotiating with the group and it will take some time before a conclusion is reached.

The government reiterated that only non-violent measures must be used to deal with all protesters.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-14

[webfact]

Protest Group Warns Police against Crackdown

The People's Alliance for Democracy claims soldiers are ready to protect its protesters, if a crackdown takes place.

The group's core leader sees police's move this morning as an effort to disperse the rally.

Core leader of the People's Alliance for Democracy, or PAD, Major General Chamlong Srimuang said a number of police and officials of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration, or BMA, were deployed this morning in preparation for the dispersal of his group's protest rally.

Chamlong stated those officials came with street-cleaning vehicles and equipment for the removal of portable toilets from the rally site on Rajdamnoen Avenue.

Chamlong said commander of the Metropolitan Police Division 1, Police Major General Wichai Sangprapai, has had a meeting with him.

Chamlong quoted Wichai as saying the deployment of a police force at the protest scene merely aimed to escort the BMA staff working there.

The PAD leader said police's hesitation to break up the rally was from their fear of public outrage against such an action and a larger number of protesters at the demonstration.

Chamlong said the attempted removal of portable toilets was ordered by the government in a tactic to discomfort the rally-goers.

Chamlong claimed he has been assured by an army officer that soldiers are ready to come out to protect the PAD protesters if the crackdown really takes place.

He cautioned police to think carefully about the attempted crackdown as it could turn into bloodshed.

PAD spokesman Parnthep Puapongpan said police's move this morning was clearly an attempted dispersal on the group's rally, but the plan was changed as the protesters came in larger number .

Parnthep suggested police's move was against a democratic gathering and the attempted crackdown was not ordered in writing, but verbally.

He went on to say the government is employing three measures to disrupt the group's activities and make way for the crackdown.

One is the ordered closure of two lanes of the road at the rally site. Another is the reopening of the area behind Chamai Marcuchet Bridge. Third is the removal of necessary facilities from the rally site.

Three companies of police were deployed at the PAD's rally site this morning to encircle the protesters with Wichai supervising their work.

Wichai then had negotiations with Chamlong.

He told the latter his subordinates were assigned to prevent possible clash between the protesters and BMA staff on duty of removing portable toilets outside the Education Ministry.

However, the BMA workers decided not to enter the protest area and the police force was thus ordered to leave.

Wichai then met leaders of the Thai Patriots Network to ask the group to leave Phitsanuloke Road to give way for the upcoming Red Cross fair .

Wichai reiterated police must proceed with reopening the areas now seized by protesters before March 15 as ordered by the Center for the Administration of Peace and Order.

-- Tan Network 2011-03-14