Children as young as 11 could soon be asked about their sexuality without their parents’ consent, it emerged yesterday.

Teachers, nurses and youth workers are being urged to set up pilot studies aimed at monitoring adolescent sexual orientation for the first time.

A report commissioned by the Government’s equalities watchdog found that it was ‘practically and ethically’ possible to interview young children about their sexuality

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370511/Fury-equality-watchdog-calls-teachers-ask-11-year-olds-gay.html#ixzz1HsC4ni14

OK, it's the Daily Mail again, so all may not be as it seems.

Is there a watchdog to monitor these watchdogs?

Can a watchdog be disassembled by popular demand?

What if a petition of half a million / one million / several million were to be presented to No. 10? Would anyone take a blind bit of notice?

Am I allowed to go round and smack someone if they ask my kids that sort of question?

I don't know. At 11 they are already well aware that they are gay and will probably soon have a lot of problems due to it. Maybe it is time to start acknowledging it early, so they can get help with bullying and such?

I don't know. At 11 they are already well aware that they are gay and will probably soon have a lot of problems due to it. Maybe it is time to start acknowledging it early, so they can get help with bullying and such?

Maaayyybe you're right, I don't know, but what the hell business is it of the government?

i kind of agree with you, but let's face it, young gay boys have a really difficult time. If the government does not do something to help them, things are not going to improve for decades.

Perhaps I am dense but after teaching 4th to 6th grades in Thailand for three years I didn't notice any problems with the gay boys. Everyone knew they were gay. They were very popular. They got a lot of parts in the school activities because of dancing ability and were usually the guys who helped out the teachers. The female teachers liked the straight boys better and made that obvious but the gay male teachers like the gay boys. The straight male teachers didn't seem to care one way or the other. In case you are wondering how I figured this out, the dumb teachers always put the students they liked closest to them. The brighter teachers put the problem kids closest but there were more dumb teachers than smart ones. The really bright teachers configured the class to encourage certain interactions which was fascinating to watch.

I don't know about the female students. Thai female students were way to complicated for me to figure out. It just gave me a headache. For those fathers who have a Thai daughter between the ages of 11 and 16 my advice is to work offshore till she gets older. One day sweet and the next like the bride of Dracula. How could anyone complicate a grade school girls uniform? I watched one poor Thai teacher struggle daily with one class of girls because of uniform violations. She would whack them and smack them and they would rebel and run around yelling and screaming or worse pout. Have you ever seen 20, 13 year old girls pout at the same time? Scary!

Perhaps I am dense but after teaching 4th to 6th grades in Thailand for three years I didn't notice any problems with the gay boys.

The article isn't talking about Thai schools, it's talking about UK schools and I can tell you that gay boys in the UK do have major problems with bullying.

Am I allowed to go round and smack someone if they ask my kids that sort of question?

What if they ask your kids and the answer is 'yes'?

Perhaps I am dense but after teaching 4th to 6th grades in Thailand for three years I didn't notice any problems with the gay boys.

The article isn't talking about Thai schools, it's talking about UK schools and I can tell you that gay boys in the UK do have major problems with bullying.

Sorry, I thought this being Thai Visa and all. I guess UK schools have a ways to go before they catch up with Thais in the area of education.

11 seems a bit young to me - 14 might be a better age.

A quote in the article caught my eye:

"The report has provoked outrage. Graham Stuart, Tory chairman of the Commons education select committee, said the plans were ‘invasive, sinister and threatening’. He added: ‘School should be a place of safety, not a place where pupils are picked over for the purpose of some quango; and many children won’t understand what they are talking about.’"

So it should - even for gay pupils which is what this survey appears to be trying to ensure.

I don't know. At 11 they are already well aware that they are gay and will probably soon have a lot of problems due to it. Maybe it is time to start acknowledging it early, so they can get help with bullying and such?

Maaayyybe you're right, I don't know, but what the hell business is it of the government?

The state (public) education system in the UK is run by 'the government', in practice if not in theory, so it's their responsibility.

i kind of agree with you, but let's face it, young gay boys have a really difficult time. If the government does not do something to help them, things are not going to improve for decades.

Sorry to do this to you, I know you hate me agreeing with you....but I agree. (That's twice this year!!!! )

Not totally agree, you'll be glad to know . I am not sure that pre-pubescent boys give a thought to their own sexuality and 11 is perhaps a bit too young for some to have considered it or be aware of it.

Personal information is always dangerous in the wrong hands. So, it depends on who is asking, why they are asking and what they plan to do with the information. A lot of young people, especially boys, know that they are different. They might not know what exactly it is, but they know. A supportive and caring environment can go a long way to preventing things such as suicide and drug addiction. The approach, however, has to be assist young people in accepting who and what they are, not simply identifying them as having a problem. As far as bullying, gov'ts need to keep their eye on the ball. It is the bully that is the problem; not the kid being bullied.

I am not sure that pre-pubescent boys give a thought to their own sexuality and 11 is perhaps a bit too young for some to have considered it or be aware of it.

I believe that homosexuality is genetic and that they know that they are only interested in their own sex from the time that they are very young children.

I am not sure that pre-pubescent boys give a thought to their own sexuality and 11 is perhaps a bit too young for some to have considered it or be aware of it.

I believe that homosexuality is genetic and that they know that they are only interested in their own sex from the time that they are very young children.

I believe that homosexuality is congenital rather than genetic

I do not believe that most children give a thought to anything sexual before they reach puberty, unless they are taught it in some way.

I think that you are VERY wrong about that.

As regards to masturbation, it is a perfectly normal practice as long as the child does it in private. On ultra-sound, male fetuses have been observed masturbating in the womb

http://www.wethechildren.com/boundriesenglish.htm

.

Am I allowed to go round and smack someone if they ask my kids that sort of question?

What if they ask your kids and the answer is 'yes'?

At 8-11 years old, as in this article, I would doubt that the majority would know what the subject is actually dealing with.

And what questions would be asked?

How would the answers be interpreted?

As to your question - again dependent upon the question(s) the kid(s) were asked - if there was a positive 'yes' then I would accept the response. But I'd still go and thump the interfering busybody who had poked his (more likely her) nose into my family's private business.

To expand on the above post -

The sort of question I would anticipate would be along the lines of 'Who are your best friends at school/at home' - 'Do you like playing with football / cricket / stay at home / other'.

And answers would be interpreted in one way or another.

'My best friends are Johnny Smith / Charlie Brown'

'My best friend at school is Jenny Larkin'

'When I finish school I go and play in the park'

Interpret the first - for a boy - he likes boys

For a girl - she's a bit of a tomboy.

(Both wrong - in the first it's a boys' school and the named boys live in the same street. The girl's response is that she's the sister of the boy just asked and follows him around everywhere, driving the boys crazy)

Interpret the second and third responses yourselves. There are a dozen of each, some sensible, some weird, some off the planet.

If you expect adult answers from kids, then you have no clue about kids.

Qutie right HB. Kids say the darndest things. Just ask Art Linklatter.

I don't know. At 11 they are already well aware that they are gay and will probably soon have a lot of problems due to it. Maybe it is time to start acknowledging it early, so they can get help with bullying and such?

Maaayyybe you're right, I don't know, but what the hell business is it of the government?

The state (public) education system in the UK is run by 'the government', in practice if not in theory, so it's their responsibility.

I accept that the government runs the education system, but what the hell does the sexuality of specific students have to do with delivering an education? It's nonsense and it seems to me an example of how organizations try to find new mandates in order to grow and grow and grow.

Even if the kid does understand the question and answers that yes, they are gay. Just what exactly does the government plan to do with that information anyway.

They are helpless to stop bullying kids as it is now, so why should it be any different with gay children?

Even if the kid does understand the question and answers that yes, they are gay. Just what exactly does the government plan to do with that information anyway.

They are helpless to stop bullying kids as it is now, so why should it be any different with gay children?

Exactly. If the government cared about kids, whether gay or straight , they'd create a learning environment in which kids of any gender or sexual orientation could flourish.

Teachers, nurses and youth workers are being urged to set up pilot studies aimed at monitoring adolescent sexual orientation for the first time.

And how many 11 year olds could be considered to be adolescent anyway?

I suspect that the plan was/is to ask teenagers but somebody at the daily mail spun it with the fact that some kids start puberty sooner than others. Releasing a story about 16-18 year olds, for example, about their sexuality is nowhere near as shocking and won't sell nearly as many papers.

Early Adolescence (12-14 years old)

Early adolescence is a time of many physical, mental, emotional, and social changes. Hormones change as puberty begins. Boys grow facial and pubic hair and their voices deepen. Girls grow pubic hair and breasts, and start menstruating.

http://www.cdc.gov/n...adolescence.htm

Am I allowed to go round and smack someone if they ask my kids that sort of question?

What if they ask your kids and the answer is 'yes'?

At 8-11 years old, as in this article, I would doubt that the majority would know what the subject is actually dealing with.

As I said I do think 11 is too early an age. 14 to 15 would be more appropriate.

To expand on the above post -

The sort of question I would anticipate would be along the lines of 'Who are your best friends at school/at home' - 'Do you like playing with football / cricket / stay at home / other'.

Sorry Humph but 'do you like football' is just too stereotypical. What's the alternative? 'Do you like needlework'? Where do Gareth Thomas and Ian Roberts fit in?

I don't know. At 11 they are already well aware that they are gay and will probably soon have a lot of problems due to it. Maybe it is time to start acknowledging it early, so they can get help with bullying and such?

Maaayyybe you're right, I don't know, but what the hell business is it of the government?

The state (public) education system in the UK is run by 'the government', in practice if not in theory, so it's their responsibility.

I accept that the government runs the education system, but what the hell does the sexuality of specific students have to do with delivering an education? It's nonsense and it seems to me an example of how organizations try to find new mandates in order to grow and grow and grow.

If it helps to stop bullying then it is the government's business. They have a responsibility for the safety of all the pupils in their care.

I suspect that the plan was/is to ask teenagers but somebody at the daily mail spun it with the fact that some kids start puberty sooner than others. Releasing a story about 16-18 year olds, for example, about their sexuality is nowhere near as shocking and won't sell nearly as many papers.

I suspect you may be right.

To expand on the above post -

The sort of question I would anticipate would be along the lines of 'Who are your best friends at school/at home' - 'Do you like playing with football / cricket / stay at home / other'.

Sorry Humph but 'do you like football' is just too stereotypical. What's the alternative? 'Do you like needlework'? Where do Gareth Thomas and Ian Roberts fit in?

So what is the alternative?

I suggested several alternatives above to a simple question kids could understand and answer honestly.

Do you like playing football?

Do you like playing cricket?

Do you like to stay at home?

Do you like ......... ?

And I did not suggest any interpretation to the answers.

If you try to put in more slanted questions, or interpret answers to the questions in a way that will suit your agenda (the 'you' not being to anyone here, just the psychologist or whoever that carries out the analysis) then the whole thing falls apart.

To me any government study without strong guidlines and peer review from several independent bodies is a political timebomb that is going to disturb far more people than the pressure group that is forcing such study.

To expand on the above post -

The sort of question I would anticipate would be along the lines of 'Who are your best friends at school/at home' - 'Do you like playing with football / cricket / stay at home / other'.

Sorry Humph but 'do you like football' is just too stereotypical. What's the alternative? 'Do you like needlework'? Where do Gareth Thomas and Ian Roberts fit in?

So what is the alternative?

If you want someone to tell you whether they're gay or not the question you have to ask is:

"Are you gay?" - possibly suitably dressed up for the consumption of 14+ year olds. It has to be asked by someone they trust who they know won't be judgemental. If you ask teenagers whether they like football they'll assume you're asking them whether they like football. Asking them them a straight (pardon) question avoids all the subterfuge and coy questions that probably won't make any sense to them at all. The main reason people hesitate to ask this question is that they're still of the mindset that an answer of 'yes' is somehow shameful rather than a simple statement of fact.

Note that I don't think it's sensible to ask this question to 11 year olds but by the time most kids are 14 they have a fair idea about sexuality especially if they've had decent sex education lessons at school. If the question is asked by someone they trust it's often a huge relief to be able to confide their 'secret' to someone else. I wish I'd have had someone around to confide in when I was 14 - mind you they were still locking us up then

The mantra that 14 year olds don't know what they want is a bit suspect as far as I'm concerned. Lots of kids realise from the age of about 12 that they might be gay and they do something that straight kids never need to do - they think a lot about their sexuality. If you're straight you don't need to think very much about it - it's the default mode.