Rubber Trees

[cobbler]

Cobbler; no monarchy in VN

VN, check out what price you will get for lumber on 20 year old trees. May be crap, may be very good.

Cobbler dumbshit

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[Mosha]

Cobbler; no monarchy in VN

VN, check out what price you will get for lumber on 20 year old trees. May be crap, may be very good.

Cobbler dumbshit

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Happy Yorkshire Day

[cobbler]

Hows things in mosha land ? Did they save all the trees blown over ?

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Edited August 1, 2014 by cobbler

[VNRubber]

Looks like everyone is chopping down the trees nowadays...you are right Thaiguzzi...no monarchy here in VN. The gov plays no part in helping growers to get through tough times, so farmers are considered poor in VN. Back 20 years ago, we didn't have a good knowledge base to develop a sound rubber farm, up until recently, but we considered ourselves lucky that we went thru good times few years back. Lumber price is shitty too...

[VNRubber]

I've known some Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean have farms in my area, but not Westerners like you guys in Thailand...incentives?

[Mosha]

Hows things in mosha land ? Did they save all the trees blown over ?

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Most that I saw were snapped. Loggers are in a buyers market just now,

[Mosha]

I've known some Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean have farms in my area, but not Westerners like you guys in Thailand...incentives?

Wife's idea, which seemed good at the time lol.

[cobbler]

I've known some Chinese, Taiwanese and Korean have farms in my area, but not Westerners like you guys in Thailand...incentives?

Wife's idea, which seemed good at the time lol.

think all of us have done similar . 555 oops hahaha .

Feel sorry for those farmers to lose all those rubber trees .

Cheers cobbler

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[thaiguzzi]

VN; what is the price people are getting for lumber in VN? Say 10, then 20 year old trees.

[VNRubber]

VN; what is the price people are getting for lumber in VN? Say 10, then 20 year old trees

Well, right now they are paying around 400,000VND/tree, I've just sold some for the power lines clearance, that translates to roughly US$19/tree and price is declining as the farmers with smaller acreages are chopping there trees regardless of ages. That would be for the 20 yo trees, don't know about the 10 yo., but usually they pay much less for younger trees because of less variety of uses.

[thaiguzzi]

Thanx for the info. That's about 580-590 baht per tree. Say 75 trees per rai, in excess of 42k per rai. Not terrible money.

[cobbler]

Now this doesnt sound too positive . A mans gotta do wat a mans gotts do eh

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[VNRubber]

Thanx for the info. That's about 580-590 baht per tree. Say 75 trees per rai, in excess of 42k per rai. Not terrible money.

With that in mind, say I'll be reinvesting the proceeds to grow back the rubber trees, how much will the cost be per rai in Thailand?

BTW, how much do tappers make a month there in your area, on average?

Edited August 3, 2014 by VNRubber

[cobbler]

How long is a piece of string . To get an agerage on that is so very difficult .

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[cobbler]

Do we go over the whole 12 months ? Including closed season . Because this year wont look good at all . Last year was shit but better than this year , every year is different . I know myanmar workers down here used there money to buy land and put rubber trees on it back home in myanmar , but that was wen price was good . Even last year not great but this year , its terrible . I know 1 wife on a neighbouring farm went back to myanmar , as the husband was tapping newly opened trees . So not enough to eat . Newly opened trees dont give good flow . Need to wait 3,4,5 years tapping . Flow will get better as trees get bigger . So to give an average income is very difficult . Sorry but its the best answer I can give you

Cheers Cobbler

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Edited August 3, 2014 by cobbler

[VNRubber]

Do we go over the whole 12 months ? Including closed season . Because this year wont look good at all . Last year was shit but better than this year , every year is different . I know myanmar workers down here used there money to buy land and put rubber trees on it back home in myanmar , but that was wen price was good . Even last year not great but this year , its terrible . I know 1 wife on a neighbouring farm went back to myanmar , as the husband was tapping newly opened trees . So not enough to eat . Newly opened trees dont give good flow . Need to wait 3,4,5 years tapping . Flow will get better as trees get bigger . So to give an average income is very difficult . Sorry but its the best answer I can give you

Cheers Cobbler

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So same problems everywhere this year...heh? how much you pay a month for each Myanmar worker?

[fezzy]

Hey VN

Here's my rough breakdown

Removing old rubber tree stumps Bt ?

Ploughing and tilling the land a couple of times before planting 500Bt a Rai each time , prices vary on location ,quality and condition of land

76 Rrim 251 trees at 23Bt each

Digging holes and planting the new trees 5 Bt a tree, and fetilizing at the same time , 50 kg bag 400Bt good for 2 Rai or 150 trees

Fertilizing a couple or more times in the first year , 50 kg bag for a couple of Rai 500 Bt

Clearing or weeds throughtout the year approx 4 times , we pay 300 Bt per worker a day plus smoko and lunch , 10 workers approximately 3500Bt for 10 Rai

Watering in the dry season to prevent them dying Bt ?

And so on and there's probably more ive mist ,

PER RAI AVERAGE:

Removing stumps?

Plouhging 1000Bt

Trees 1748Bt

Planting 380Bt

Fertilizer 200Bt

Total Per Rai 3328Bt

PLUS ALL THE THE OTHER HIDDEN COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH RUBBER .

Just an average as ive had to replace 150 trees this wet season so my tree prices are accurate but prices may vary throughout Thailand for everthing.

Garry

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Edited August 3, 2014 by fezzy

[fezzy]

We have just opened up our 35 Rai of trees for the season. In the first 2 sales we received about 33000Bt which we split 50/50 with our tappers which are our family.

Not like the old days and prices. Just enough to feed the family nothing more .

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[Mosha]

Do we go over the whole 12 months ? Including closed season . Because this year wont look good at all . Last year was shit but better than this year , every year is different . I know myanmar workers down here used there money to buy land and put rubber trees on it back home in myanmar , but that was wen price was good . Even last year not great but this year , its terrible . I know 1 wife on a neighbouring farm went back to myanmar , as the husband was tapping newly opened trees . So not enough to eat . Newly opened trees dont give good flow . Need to wait 3,4,5 years tapping . Flow will get better as trees get bigger . So to give an average income is very difficult . Sorry but its the best answer I can give you

Cheers Cobbler

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So same problems everywhere this year...heh? how much you pay a month for each Myanmar worker?

We pat 40% of the sale. We also give them food and baby sit

[cobbler]

Vnrubber . We share 60% for us 40% for worker. Share fertilizers same rstio . We pay acid . They buy there own knives and pay petrol for cutting grass and maintain the grass cutter . At beginning and end of season , not much flow . In the middle have rain but good flow . Never tap less than 17 nights though . Best flow is december , january as cool air from china is here . Wind isnot good andhot is not good as the rubber wont flow. Different areas are different also . We have 2 farms ,1 mountain and 1 flat land .aproximately 3000 trees total .on 18 acres . 8 acres flat land and 10 acres mountain farm . Our trees are about 13 years old on flat land . 10 years old on mountain farm . Mountain gives better flow but dries out quicker as water runns off not soaks into soil as well . All up this year ee r thinking we will average about 1000 to 1300 bart per day 364 days per year after expences . a few years ago we were making 3.5 times more than this . Each farm will get about 200 to 260 bart per day 364 days per year. Each farm has a husband and wife team . I could be wrong with these figures but I think im close enough .

We grow bananas chillies and long beens , so we have enough . We dont share extra income fromfruit and veggies with workersas I do all the work with my wife . I did offer it to them on a 40 60 split but they said they were busy enough without it .

I deffinately wouldnt do rubber from start now . For a start you wait 6 to 7 years before you start tapping all this time pouring money into the farm .

Cheers cobbler

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Edited August 3, 2014 by cobbler

[cobbler]

Never tap less than 17 per month I meant

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Edited August 3, 2014 by cobbler

[kolohe]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

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[VNRubber]

Vnrubber . We share 60% for us 40% for worker. Share fertilizers same rstio . We pay acid . They buy there own knives and pay petrol for cutting grass and maintain the grass cutter . At beginning and end of season , not much flow . In the middle have rain but good flow . Never tap less than 17 nights though . Best flow is december , january as cool air from china is here . Wind isnot good andhot is not good as the rubber wont flow. Different areas are different also . We have 2 farms ,1 mountain and 1 flat land .aproximately 3000 trees total .on 18 acres . 8 acres flat land and 10 acres mountain farm . Our trees are about 13 years old on flat land . 10 years old on mountain farm . Mountain gives better flow but dries out quicker as water runns off not soaks into soil as well . All up this year ee r thinking we will average about 1000 to 1300 bart per day 364 days per year after expences . a few years ago we were making 3.5 times more than this . Each farm will get about 200 to 260 bart per day 364 days per year. Each farm has a husband and wife team . I could be wrong with these figures but I think im close enough .

We grow bananas chillies and long beens , so we have enough . We dont share extra income fromfruit and veggies with workersas I do all the work with my wife . I did offer it to them on a 40 60 split but they said they were busy enough without it .

I deffinately wouldnt do rubber from start now . For a start you wait 6 to 7 years before you start tapping all this time pouring money into the farm .

Cheers cobbler

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Thanks Coppler for sharing...I have 38 hectares rubber, but has cut down 3.5 so around 34.5ha left with approx. 12,000 trees on it...hopefully get about US45k net this year. I wonder if someone wants to buy rubber tree farms in your area, how much is it per rai, I understand that depending on how vast the land is and how old the trees are etc., but just give me a ball park?

[cobbler]

We live half way between bangkok and phuket , at bangsaphan . 2 , 3 year old trees go for about 110k bart per rai . 6 year old trees up to about 12 year old trees r about 120k to 150 k bart per rai . Thailand has different land registration papers . So this varies the price also . Also if its mountain land its cheaper , by about 20 % . This is ball park figures . Just to give you an idea . If close to town it will be deerer than further away . Same maybe in vn . Really want to go to vn 1 day . Wat the gov like to deal with there?

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[cobbler]

Your wages r probably much cheaper there and cost of living too so still worth to doo rubber

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[cobbler]

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

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monty python quote right ? 55555

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[thaiguzzi]

Fezzy; for 4-500 baht per bag, that is not proper chemical numbered fertiliser. It will be some sort of shit. Metaphorically speaking.

VN; as somebody else said, how long is a piece of string? Or even better, bird air speed velocity.

# I just had a check on my books - thinking this year's diabolical rain had seriously affected output. Well, bugger me, after 5 fortnightly sales this season we are nearly 1000 kgs up, and 30k baht more than last year, and prices are considerably worse than this time last year. Who'd a guessed? And we did'nt do sale no. 6 a fortnight ago, not worth selling 3 taps worth of cup.

[Hunter s somtam]

With prices so low and lots of talk about chopping down trees ,hope this stops the over supply and prices rise a bit .

My biggest trees a five years old and have put to much money into them .

But bugger it ,like I always said I don't care if I never make much from them ,i really like to live in the middle of lots of big trees,gots lots of shade now and much better than living in an open field stinking hot.

Anyway we have had only about 3 nights solid rain here and not much in the day,just right .

On the farms next to me there cutting trees that are only as big as my five yr olds ,across the road they have died and a lot snapped last year .they cut them off just where the branches start to shoot out from the trunk and now there tapping them again this year ,don't think there gonna last much longer .

These dudes also only put about 2 bags of fertiliser on 10rai per year and with low prices now they probably won't put any next year.hope things pick up for everyone .

[fezzy]

Fezzy; for 4-500 baht per bag, that is not proper chemical numbered fertiliser. It will be some sort of shit. Metaphorically speaking.

VN; as somebody else said, how long is a piece of string? Or even better, bird air speed velocity.

# I just had a check on my books - thinking this year's diabolical rain had seriously affected output. Well, bugger me, after 5 fortnightly sales this season we are nearly 1000 kgs up, and 30k baht more than last year, and prices are considerably worse than this time last year. Who'd a guessed? And we did'nt do sale no. 6 a fortnight ago, not worth selling 3 taps worth of cup.

Hey Thaiguzzi , I never said it was " as you say proper chemical numbered fertilizer" it was a special blend for vegetables and other things which is also recommended for the use of young trees when first planted hence 500Bt , on all our other trees of course we use Yarra Milla proper numbered fertilizer or NPK specially formulated to the age of the tree and soil condition , which cost 970Bt and puts a dent in the old wallet when doing x amount of Rai.

I was just replying to a question that VN asked based on what I had done recently.

Cheers

Fezzy

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[fezzy]

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Thanks Coppler for sharing...I have 38 hectares rubber, but has cut down 3.5 so around 34.5ha left with approx. 12,000 trees on it...hopefully get about US45k net this year. I wonder if someone wants to buy rubber tree farms in your area, how much is it per rai, I understand that depending on how vast the land is and how old the trees are etc., but just give me a ball park?

Hey VN 10 Rai with 7-8 yr old trees tapped went for 900,000 Bt and 14 Rai with 4-5 yr old trees untapped went for 2,000,000 on the main road to our village just on the outskirts. Their also 11 Rai of rice paddy with one hell of a view on the same road for 7,000,000 Bt so prices are all over the place . Its really based on how much you want it, what you want to spend and what you think its worth .

Frustrating business trying to value land.

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