I am very interested in the topic of what it means to be a man in this modern world and living in Thailand.

Before I came to Thailand I was fortunate to have been a member of a mens group of 12 men who were interested in examing what it means to be a man and how to balance ourselves to achieve a happy life. I believe that only men understand other men. Yeah, women try but they are wasting their time. They don't get and they never will. This is a big problem for men. Where do they go for intimacy with other humans who might have a shot at understanding them.

There has been a lot of confusion about what we are supposed to be these days. Do we have a feminine side? Should we be trying to cultivate it? My answer is no and no. As much as women don't know about us we equally don't know about them.

Most men live in isolation from other men because of their fear that they might want to have sex with a man. I suggest that if you have this fear you should get good and drunk and give it a shot. You will quickly learn what your preference is and then you can put it to rest. Most men already tried this with friends when they were 7. If you didn't it's not too late.

So, now you've established what your sexual orentation is you can move on to getting over what other people think. One of my best friends who is the same age as me and takes the same pride in his appearence could easily be mistaken for a gay man. When we go shopping togather I'm sure that people wonder. He's more sensitive about it than I am so of course I like to tease him a little by acting gay. Are you comfortable hugging other men in public? Not the fearful handshake one arm hug but the chest to chest (don't touch pee pee's) hug. Of course I would only do this with men that I care a lot for. For me this reenforces the pride I have in being a man.

In the mens group we discussed things important to us and it was truly awakening to realize that all of us were dealing with the same issues around being men. We did two retreats each year and hired "professionals" to facilitate workshops on issues like our fathers (a big issue for men) our mothers, masturbation (who'd have thought men would feel guilt over this) and how were supposed to act around women. Our wives were a little freaked out initially but after awhile they unanmously agreed that we were better husbands and better men because of it. Many men are pretty screwed up because of our fathers. They ment well when they tried to make us strong for what awaited us but most of them went about it all wrong. My father used to tell me he loved me when he was drunk and that was very confusing because he sure didn't act like he did. Right before he kicked my ass he used to say "this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" That's an easy thing for the guy on the other end of the belt to say

There are a lot of great books on men. Some of the best ones are "Ironjohn" by Robert Bly. He's a poet which is good because his words resonate at a different level. Another good one is "Fire in the Belly" by Sam Keen. There are a lot of great books about the evoluton of initiation rites that mark the transition of boys to men. One of my favorite stories is of a culture in Africa who when a boy reaches a certain age he is "kidnapped" from his mother (who is acting along ) by the village men elders who take him out to the woods and teach him how to be a man. At the end of this boot camp they have ceromony and knock out one of his front teeth. Then the boy (now a man) is returned to the village and proudly desplays his missing tooth. This ritual seals the deal. He is now a man is expected to act like one.

My son had the good fortune to attend many of these mens group gatherings and I think tit had a huge impact on who he is today. He is a respected drill instructor for the Army and graduated top in all his military traning programs because he has leadership qualities which I think stem from his exposure to mens goups. We both loved that line in "Gladiator" at the start of the great battle "strenth and honor" we end many conversations with it.

We seem to be living in a world where boys are raising other boys and we see the result. We also see the result of adult men acting dishonorably because they are lost in the wilderness. They are missing out on the power (and the balance) that comes from the faterity and fellowship of men. I think that the emergence of gangs is probably a result

I'm a little surprised that Thailand does not seem to have a initiation ritual to mark the transition of boys to men.

I'm reading "with the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa" by Eugene Sledge. This was the one of the books that is the basis for the "Pacific" series and it is amazing, but sad that the shared experence that Sledge and Snafu were estranged from each other after the war. Men go to war it should be men who bring them back.

Enough of what I think. What do you guys think?

Ah, LOL, I'm sorry, but, you're posting this topic HERE?!

Do you collect Nazi paraphernalia ?

What do I think? Well, since you asked:

1. I have girlfriend who understands me quite well. It's a choice, not an ability.

2. "Most men live in isolation from other men because of their fear that they might want to have sex with a man."

What a bizzare statement.

"There has been a lot of confusion about what we are supposed to be these days."

Speak for yourself. I'm not perfect, but I'm sure not confused about my manhood.

3. " We did two retreats each year and hired "professionals" to facilitate workshops on...masturbation... and how were supposed to act around women."

Yeeesh.

4. I can't read anymore of this.

5. What do I think? I think your therapy was ineffective. Likely even damaging.

You asked.

Time to come out of the closet; bi...er I mean trisailor

2. "Most men live in isolation from other men because of their fear that they might want to have sex with a man."

What a bizzare statement.

I concur. It sounds like the OP had this problem, but it is far from universal.

What do I think? Well, since you asked:

1. I have girlfriend who understands me quite well. It's a choice, not an ability.

2. "Most men live in isolation from other men because of their fear that they might want to have sex with a man."

What a bizzare statement.

"There has been a lot of confusion about what we are supposed to be these days."

Speak for yourself. I'm not perfect, but I'm sure not confused about my manhood.

3. " We did two retreats each year and hired "professionals" to facilitate workshops on...masturbation... and how were supposed to act around women."

Yeeesh.

4. I can't read anymore of this.

5. What do I think? I think your therapy was ineffective. Likely even damaging.

You asked.

Replace girlfriend with wife, Yeesh with <deleted> and my reply would be the same. Anyone that needs a workshop on masterbation after shagging their mate when they were 7 years old has a lot more issues than most of the weirdos in Thailand, (including me!).

And now for something on the lighter side:

Real men don't drink through straws.

Real men do not ride tandem on 110cc scooters. They sure as hell don't ride, what?, tri-dem?

Real men don't pull their suitcases on tiny wheels. They hoist up that 50 kilo duffel bag and sling it over their shoulder.

Real men don't drive mini-vans. Not even if they have 10 kids. Pack 'em into the '68 Bronco.

There's more. But no time now. I have to get to the male-only seminar on weenie whacking. I'm up for it.

What an incredibly odd admission.

I suppose I participated in a man's retreat for a few hours every so often when I played a bit of ball with my friends. When I was younger we had deep bonding events over beer. (That's before the guys got married or hitched.) We never had a bros b4 hoes rule. Rather it was an ample bosom before a guy anytime. Perhaps, that's a man thing where an interest in women is put first, but then we were in our 20's. and the consensus was that girls were neato, especially girls one could get naked with. Have I ever told the story of my friend waking up to see the girl he picked up was getting dressed and ready to leave? where you going he asked, its only 8 am on a Sunday. I have to get to church she said. My friends says he could barely contain his laughter and in his attempt to muffle the guffaws she mistook his distorted face as sadness over her leaving. See, now that's a man's story.

I'm sorry, but this mens issues discussion group thing just sounds way too creepy, especially the part about masturbation. If I started discussing the topic with my friends, I'd hope one of them would smack some sense into me.

This thread should carry a TMI warning.

And now for something on the lighter side:

Real men don't drink through straws.

Real men do not ride tandem on 110cc scooters. They sure as hell don't ride, what?, tri-dem?

Real men don't pull their suitcases on tiny wheels. They hoist up that 50 kilo duffel bag and sling it over their shoulder.

Real men don't drive mini-vans. Not even if they have 10 kids. Pack 'em into the '68 Bronco.

There's more. But no time now. I have to get to the male-only seminar on weenie whacking. I'm up for it.

Lucky i got a 135 cc scooter.. thanks.. now im a real man

50 kg is for sissies.. just try a 130 kg deadlift

hmmmm no minivan... damm your tough.

Time to come out of the closet; bi...er I mean trisailor

My first thought exactly- the OP is gay and is fighting to suppress it.

i'm afraid that going to circle jerk retreats is not the most efficient method.

i'm afraid that going to circle jerk retreats is not the most efficient method.

Indeed, a decent game of Soggy Sao/biscuit on the football field is much more rewarding.

i'm afraid that going to circle jerk retreats is not the most efficient method.

Indeed, a decent game of Soggy Sao/biscuit on the football field is much more rewarding.

I'm a little surprised that Thailand does not seem to have a initiation ritual to mark the transition of boys to men.

Where did you get that idea from?

Boys are taken to the local brothel by their father, to have their first sexual experience.........

Trisailer:

Scuttlebutt on this thread indicates that we are not sure you are being entirely "above board" with us.Was your "first mate" a gal or a guy? What is your true bearing?

Some guys' mains'ls just don't get hoisted by women who "don't understand" them. So the course that was set by the coxswain in the cockpit changes from fore to aft.

Were "all hands" on deck for the masturbation seminar?

Sorry if all this sounds stern, but what a load of bilge.

This topic is so gay.

And now for something on the lighter side:

Real men don't drink through straws.

Real men do not ride tandem on 110cc scooters. They sure as hell don't ride, what?, tri-dem?

Real men don't pull their suitcases on tiny wheels. They hoist up that 50 kilo duffel bag and sling it over their shoulder.

Real men don't drive mini-vans. Not even if they have 10 kids. Pack 'em into the '68 Bronco.

There's more. But no time now. I have to get to the male-only seminar on weenie whacking. I'm up for it.

Lucky i got a 135 cc scooter.. thanks.. now im a real man

50 kg is for sissies.. just try a 130 kg deadlift

hmmmm no minivan... damm your tough.

I sometimes drive a little Honda with a grocery basket on the front of it. Thats as close as I can get to my feminine side

Real men don't drink through straws.

Real men do not ride tandem on 110cc scooters. They sure as hell don't ride, what?, tri-dem?

Real men don't pull their suitcases on tiny wheels. They hoist up that 50 kilo duffel bag and sling it over their shoulder.

Real men don't drive mini-vans. Not even if they have 10 kids. Pack 'em into the '68 Bronco.

Real men fart in front of their girlfriends.

Real men pee on the seat.

Real men don't take showers.

Thai visa member falling, Thai visa member falling, EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, is there a psychiatrist in the house?

When I was in my early twenties I had a friend that was part of a mens group. We all took the Micky out of him for being gay which he would rigourously defend.

They would take turns in dressing up and called themselves the Village People. He was not gay though?.

Real men don't drink through straws.

Real men do not ride tandem on 110cc scooters. They sure as hell don't ride, what?, tri-dem?

Real men don't pull their suitcases on tiny wheels. They hoist up that 50 kilo duffel bag and sling it over their shoulder.

Real men don't drive mini-vans. Not even if they have 10 kids. Pack 'em into the '68 Bronco.

Real men fart in front of their girlfriends.

Real men pee on the seat.

Real men don't take showers.

Don't forget the Dutch oven

Before I came to Thailand I was fortunate to have been a member of a mens group of 12 men who were interested in examing what it means to be a man and how to balance ourselves to achieve a happy life

I'm so sorry if my comment sounds discriminatory in any way, but I have to ask:

Are you American??

Before I came to Thailand I was fortunate to have been a member of a mens group of 12 men who were interested in examing what it means to be a man and how to balance ourselves to achieve a happy life

I'm so sorry if my comment sounds discriminatory in any way, but I have to ask:

Are you American??

does sound american

Dude....there is a forum user IanForbes, I think you and Him would have a great chat.....I am sure He can set you straight.

Sorry but I am reading between the lines here. But I get the feeling you are an american of redneck ancestry who maybe got rich in the oilfields or from some from of high risk high paid labour. With your new wealth you wished to deal with issues that you felt were holding you back from moving up the social economic ladder you found yourself access too. So you bought into yuppy get to know yourself courses. I honestly hope it worked. I lived in Alberta the oil province of Canada for years. WE have been called blue eyed Arabs. These kind of retreats were expensive and popular for the new rich. To be honest most people who took them did change not sure if I liked some of the changes but their lives were changed.

As far as bro's before hoe's I stand with that if bro is a decent man. If the guy is a disaster waiting to happen he is on his own.

Real men don't drink through straws.

Real men do not ride tandem on 110cc scooters. They sure as hell don't ride, what?, tri-dem?

Real men don't pull their suitcases on tiny wheels. They hoist up that 50 kilo duffel bag and sling it over their shoulder.

Real men don't drive mini-vans. Not even if they have 10 kids. Pack 'em into the '68 Bronco.

Real men fart in front of their girlfriends.

Real men pee on the seat.

Real men don't take showers.

Don't forget the Dutch oven

I just checked that on Wikipedia. The definition is ...............

A dutch oven is a slang term for pulling a cover over someone's head while in bed and flatulating, thereby creating an area of foul-odored air in an enclosed space that must be inhaled.

Wow. Never thought of that.

Personally, though, I tend not to use my arse too much in the bedroom. I prefer to use hers.

I'm not surprised that this topic has generated the kinds of responses that it has. After all this is Thailand the place where men come to find their perfect woman. Just one problem though. Many get much more than they barganed for because they are such needy souls. Thai women are accustomed to men who are not looking to solve their mans problems. Oh, they put on a good show but every one I talked with think that farang men are soft. They tell me that more often than not farang men are looking for a mommy and the girls are happy to assume the role as long a the money flows.

All you men out there are so happy and balanced that it's very strange that so many are jumping off buildings and letting yourselves be led around by your noses. As a reader of TV I see an endless parade of men failing to navigate this place and ending up wrecks and all joking aside I think that the lack of real connection between men is a major cause. You don't know what you don't know and you and you can't learn anything new with your mind closed.

The science supports my view, but why would anyone want to consider science?

I think everybody is being unfair to the OP.

Men (generally) don't have deep, meaningful discussions with each other and I suspect the OP is sensitive enough to miss this communication with somebody he trusts.

My (ex) husband went to a 'mens group' in Thailand, but for some reason didn't like it and, as we were separated, I couldn't be bothered to probe why. (Edit - I wish I had now!)

Women are v lucky (IMO) in that we find it easy to share our deepest, darkest thoughts with our close friends. I've never understood why men think its 'gay' when a man tries to do the same .

I'm not surprised that this topic has generated the kinds of responses that it has. After all this is Thailand the place where men come to find their perfect woman. Just one problem though. Many get much more than they barganed for because they are such needy souls. Thai women are accustomed to men who are not looking to solve their mans problems. Oh, they put on a good show but every one I talked with think that farang men are soft. They tell me that more often than not farang men are looking for a mommy and the girls are happy to assume the role as long a the money flows.

All you men out there are so happy and balanced that it's very strange that so many are jumping off buildings and letting yourselves be led around by your noses. As a reader of TV I see an endless parade of men failing to navigate this place and ending up wrecks and all joking aside I think that the lack of real connection between men is a major cause. You don't know what you don't know and you and you can't learn anything new with your mind closed.

The science supports my view, but why would anyone want to consider science?

Well said. I think if vast majority of these guys are afraid to look at themselves. Most of them would crack if they ever really reflected on who they are and what they have done so far with their lives. They live a fantasy and try to bring others into it. Denial is a mans worst tool he has in the box, it dulls the other tools.. Real men can deal with real issues to make them a better man and not hid behind false bravado.