Corruption Spreading Like Plague : PM Abhisit

[oldbookman]

In my view a goodly amount of bribery is perpetrated by government workers who are paid very little. A few years ago the dean of a gov't university asked me to teach a group of it's teachers. I asked her what their average wage was. She replied that the all had master's degrees & the salary was US$5,000.00 a year. I taught for free, as I was shocked at such poverty wages. Obviously employees without university training can't go to Starbucks, the cinema, own a car, dress nicely, live in anything remotely encouraging. People have to eat, so unless paid adequately, even good people bend the rules.

[parryg]

Exactly it's only the last 10yrs that this country has anything close to a real democracy, the DEMs that have been in power for the previous 4 decades, thrived on corruption, it's how they stayed in power, it's how the peoples voice went unheard for so long, now they've got a cheek complaining about the mess they made, promote and thrive on, the highest men in the land from Generals to Judges are all part of the same culture. Taksin was half way there, at least he was the peoples choice and did much for the people, it's just a shame he couldn't control his greed and tarred himself with the same filthy brush as the stinking corrupt government that has plagued this country for more than half a century.

[MrChangers]

Only way to stop corruption is to pay workers a fair wage, ie., the policemen. Then Syam needs to inforce its laws. Put the buggers in jail, ie., Thaksin et al.

You can't blame Thaskin for this one, he's been on holiday abroad during PM Abhisit's session!

[pac4155]

Quote from The Rough Guide to Thailand, page 865, History.

"By the time of the king's (Chulalongkorn) death in 1910, Thailand could not yet be called a modern nation-state - corruption and nepotism were still grave problems."

Corruption is an historical part of the Thai psyche and will never be eliminated. It is self-perpetuating; as one person gets scammed, he scams the next person to get

his money back, ad infinitum.

Hey....He's in charge. Stop passing the baht. If there's corruption, than the baht stops with him.

[WyattEarp]

In my view a goodly amount of bribery is perpetrated by government workers who are paid very little. A few years ago the dean of a gov't university asked me to teach a group of it's teachers. I asked her what their average wage was. She replied that the all had master's degrees & the salary was US$5,000.00 a year. I taught for free, as I was shocked at such poverty wages. Obviously employees without university training can't go to Starbucks, the cinema, own a car, dress nicely, live in anything remotely encouraging. People have to eat, so unless paid adequately, even good people bend the rules.

Nonsense. Thailand is full of middle class people who earn good and honest money. Stop excusing criminal activity by blaming poverty. The small bribes you see mostly (a few hundrede bath) is just the tip of the iceberg. The big bribes are in the millions. Just look at certain officials on a supposed salary of 30-40K/month driving around in big merc cars. Those people don't take bribes out of poverty but out of greed.

[marquess]

In my view a goodly amount of bribery is perpetrated by government workers who are paid very little. A few years ago the dean of a gov't university asked me to teach a group of it's teachers. I asked her what their average wage was. She replied that the all had master's degrees & the salary was US$5,000.00 a year. I taught for free, as I was shocked at such poverty wages. Obviously employees without university training can't go to Starbucks, the cinema, own a car, dress nicely, live in anything remotely encouraging. People have to eat, so unless paid adequately, even good people bend the rules.

Nonsense. Thailand is full of middle class people who earn good and honest money. Stop excusing criminal activity by blaming poverty. The small bribes you see mostly (a few hundrede bath) is just the tip of the iceberg. The big bribes are in the millions. Just look at certain officials on a supposed salary of 30-40K/month driving around in big merc cars. Those people don't take bribes out of poverty but out of greed.

At the end of the day of if Abhsit really wants to do something about corruption or been seen to be doing something, then he could start with some of those those hi profile injustice cases, Moo Ham, the girl who killed 9 people on the tollway, the guy who drove the Porche and cut the girl in two and that recent case reported on Koh Samui where allegedly a rich person just go his son off from running over and killing an 18 year old girl. Start with these people and then you will send out a clear message that you mean business! None of these people have done jail time and look like they never will!

[bungalownights]

just when I thought he couldnt get more pathetic, he goes ahead and says "Corruption spreading like plague"

:cheesy::cheesy::cheesy:

is this bungling fool even aware of his job description ?

Edited June 2, 2011 by bungalownights

[oldbookman]

Nonsense? As I stated in my 1st, enforce the law by putting rich thuggies like Thaksin in jail. Absolutely agree the Big Boys are the big problem. But in this unfortunate "real" world, this kind of chicanary is world-wide & virtually unstoppable. I'd bet the best way to start is with the little people; get the populace obeying the rules. Then their indignation just might bring down the really bad guys.... You think? Just throwing out ideas.

[selftaopath]

PM confesses that corruption has increased while he has been running the country. Well get a star and go to the front of the class, I like honesty but now go to the back for shooting yourself in the foot.

Or perhaps he's bragging. Humn now that's a thought eh?

[oldbookman]

I actually witnessed the kid who cut the girl in half. What I saw was her huge mistake to attempt to cross a high-speed, divided highway. She screwed up. But like everywhere, money talks whether its Hollywood or Bangkok. I have a student whose brother was drunk & speeding on the tollway when he whacked a motorcycle cop from behind flipping up & over the guardrail to his death. The cop had a wife & 3 children. The kid got off without a day in jail & a pathetically minuscule cash penalty. So you're absolutely correct, but the real corruption involves money not dead bodies.

[MrChangers]

Nonsense? As I stated in my 1st, enforce the law by putting rich thuggies like Thaksin in jail. Absolutely agree the Big Boys are the big problem. But in this unfortunate "real" world, this kind of chicanary is world-wide & virtually unstoppable. I'd bet the best way to start is with the little people; get the populace obeying the rules. Then their indignation just might bring down the really bad guys.... You think? Just throwing out ideas.

Sorry but that never works as when you remove one foot soldier there is another to take their place. You have to start at the top of the pyramid to cut the chain of command.

From the lead posting we can see that the PM has noticed the state of affairs but seems unwilling or unable to do anything about it. I am wondering why he has made this comment just before the election.

[oldbookman]

Surely you jest re Thaksin! He's got to be the biggest bad guy of all. His having his rubber-stamp parliament pass a special once-only law exempting him from paying any tax on the billion dollar sale of his communication empire to that Singapore company has to take the cake for the biggest piece of corruption ever. Don't you think?

[monkfish]

I will respect the PM when his government arrests and prosecutes those members of HIS government that are corrupt. Let him clean up his own house first.

Agreed. Until someone high up is charged and convicted and spends time in jail, there really is no deterrent

Someone high-up has been charged, convicted and run from his punishment ... does that count?

As for gk's statement --- look how long prosecution takes in Thailand. Even those found guilty years ago are still out on bail pending appeal etc ...

(example --- S'noh and the Alpine Golf land deal --- where did it go? The clock ran out on the prosecution of the case of theft of the land from a Buddhist temple)

I believe you are talking about Thaksin? who was convicted and sentenced 2 years in prison by the Supreme Court for Conflict of Interest!

In this case the Supreme Court had to overrule a previous ruling the justify the sentence.

Did you know when a Supreme Court makes a ruling it becomes LAW?

Wasn't there another MP involved in a conflict of interest? So what punishment did he get?

Oh I see!! promoted to Deputy PM by Abhisit!!

[saintofsilence]

To stop corruption prosecutions should commence on all guilty people and severe penalties issued not slaps on the hand and the media should be given authorisation to report the outcomes of all corruption cases.

[ginjag]

PM confesses that corruption has increased while he has been running the country. Well get a star and go to the front of the class, I like honesty but now go to the back for shooting yourself in the foot.

Maybe you did the same, Cancer does NOT stop growing when you know you have it, it still grows when your trying to treat it. Your biggest teacher of this problem is exactly the man that wants to return here and take power again.

You will need 10 years here to start to make inroads into this MESS.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

To stop corruption prosecutions should commence on all guilty people and severe penalties issued not slaps on the hand and the media should be given authorisation to report the outcomes of all corruption cases.

I am convinced it starts with the family, then school, etc. I know of a "well-respected" teacher who is "a liar and thief." She cheats every person she can. Still, the Thais like her because they think she can "give them something." As long as Thais support corruption because they think it will "give them something," the country will remain in the stagnant backwaters of economic development. In my own country, the USA, corruption does of course exists, but I do not think it permeates American society. And there is one big difference between the USA and Thailand: The USA has an established rule of law. And when you break it, you are penalized. Of course, not always (has anybody seen OJ lately?).

[scorecard]

The bottom line, IMHO, nothing will change until Thai people reject the current types of people who are politicians; mostly incapable, corrupt, insincere people with no morals, always searching for the next opportunity to openly get their sticky fingers into public funds, paying no attention to their electorates, contributing nothing to the development of Thailand.

The sad fact is that Thailand does have a lot of highly capable sincere people, who right now stay well away from politics for one basic reason - they don't want to be associated with scaly leeches.

When Thailand does have a lot of capable and sincere politicians (and I believe it will happen, eventually the middle class will get more active and they will generate real change), then lots of things will change, e.g. capable people heading ministries, people capable of insight, capable of developing & implementing quality and visionary policies, sincere about stopping collusion.

Sorry, I'm not talking about tomorrow.

Edited June 2, 2011 by scorecard

[pac4155]

Nonsense? As I stated in my 1st, enforce the law by putting rich thuggies like Thaksin in jail. Absolutely agree the Big Boys are the big problem. But in this unfortunate "real" world, this kind of chicanary is world-wide & virtually unstoppable. I'd bet the best way to start is with the little people; get the populace obeying the rules. Then their indignation just might bring down the really bad guys.... You think? Just throwing out ideas.

Sorry but that never works as when you remove one foot soldier there is another to take their place. You have to start at the top of the pyramid to cut the chain of command.

From the lead posting we can see that the PM has noticed the state of affairs but seems unwilling or unable to do anything about it. I am wondering why he has made this comment just before the election.

A corrupt petty official in the Khon Kaen Immigration Office recently tried to scam me for 2000 baht when I went to get an extension on my visa. Stop the corruption at the top and bottom

of the pile and meet in the middle. Make a few well-publicised arrests (and convictions), show that you mean business and maybe a start can be made to end this nefarious practice.

[ginjag]

In my view a goodly amount of bribery is perpetrated by government workers who are paid very little. A few years ago the dean of a gov't university asked me to teach a group of it's teachers. I asked her what their average wage was. She replied that the all had master's degrees & the salary was US$5,000.00 a year. I taught for free, as I was shocked at such poverty wages. Obviously employees without university training can't go to Starbucks, the cinema, own a car, dress nicely, live in anything remotely encouraging. People have to eat, so unless paid adequately, even good people bend the rules.

Look please, I do not know OR want to know how much you live on, but I think you are comparing too much with western wages.

Wages here I admit are not over the top at all, to say that would be a joke, but being Thailand and comparing a Big C check out wage it compares, What I do disagree strongly to is paying the bib more money, totally wrong--do you believe that would stop the bibs corruption. This is a business not a just a paid job. To compensate when times are hard, you have to seek more than 1 job. I had 3 in one day Government -day football ref-eve singing-night. I did say I think wages are not brill BUT !!!!! up to the person. I have a Thai friend manages a karaoke bar eve and after that sells food over night at the local market. sleeps 6am-2pm. and enjoys. but it's cause he wants to get extra.

[LBD1]

OMG - who just woke the PM up?? Best he go back to sleep so we can go get our pocket money for the weekend.

[oldbookman]

Either I'm just too tired or I just can't comprehend some of your verbiage. What are you saying in your post? Paying a university student 25 baht an hour to work at Swensen's just doesn't cut it for me. I have lived here permanently for several years, & I've been vacationing here every year for 20 years. I've been around. If Syam wants to progress & get out of being a 3rd World country, they've got to start paying people more. Money in your pocket, especially disposable income, is THE point.

[pogal]

The government is too busy catching serious corruption like foreign musicians in Chiang Mai! 555555

Nice try Pi Mark but you didn't do anything worthy for these last few years so it seems like you are not serious about it, and who would be surprised, you are in with the biggest bunch of corruption experts in the world! 55555

Thailand's "plague-like" corruption is just a prelude to the rest of the world's. In-your-face-corruption is not nice but neither is legalized corruption in the USA and many other so called western countries. It will NEVER change because all the people in power are involved. It would take a word-wide revolt from every country to stop it.

Forget it, deal with it, like every other thing in life ... Pessimistic? no! Im a realist:)

[ramrod711]

Is this the guy holding hands with BJT? Speaking out the side of mouth as usual.

at least he hasn't been convicted of corrupt practices like someone else we could name. i believe 4 convictions and 4 more pending

[ginjag]

Either I'm just too tired or I just can't comprehend some of your verbiage. What are you saying in your post? Paying a university student 25 baht an hour to work at Swensen's just doesn't cut it for me. I have lived here permanently for several years, & I've been vacationing here every year for 20 years. I've been around. If Syam wants to progress & get out of being a 3rd World country, they've got to start paying people more. Money in your pocket, especially disposable income, is THE point.

I'm NOT trying to disagree with you, HaHa only been here a short time have we , 1st thing Most of univ, students are too lazy to work, I also have been around here a long time and lived in near all regions, and apart from a minority the population-rural especially are idle, not many would even try to get more money because they want an easy time. the problem here is the ones that have the easy time are the corrupt lot. I do sympathize with the very poor who have little chance of education--the others have to learn in hard times you have to get your finger out and go for it, it won't wait for you. I the fifties I had to do when times were hard--I had to do my mother made sure of that. It's good upbringing that is the thing that is lacking, and a voice to speak when something is wrong, Thai nature does not allow that .

[selftaopath]

The bottom line, IMHO, nothing will change until Thai people reject the current types of people who are politicians; mostly incapable, corrupt, insincere people with no morals, always searching for the next opportunity to openly get their sticky fingers into public funds, paying no attention to their electorates, contributing nothing to the development of Thailand.

The sad fact is that Thailand does have a lot of highly capable sincere people, who right now stay well away from politics for one basic reason - they don't want to be associated with scaly leeches.

When Thailand does have a lot of capable and sincere politicians (and I believe it will happen, eventually the middle class will get more active and they will generate real change), then lots of things will change, e.g. capable people heading ministries, people capable of insight, capable of developing & implementing quality and visionary policies, sincere about stopping collusion.

Sorry, I'm not talking about tomorrow.

Thank you for your post. However I disagree somewhat. Sorry. I don’t think corruption will EVERdiminish; not in 100 years. Thailandand Thai people can not function withoutit. Think a/b how it would be if no corruption meant:- Paying taxes

- Being fined/jailed for driving/riding motorcycles withouta license.

- Tickets given and consequences for not paying themenforced

- Vehicles towed by police when appropriate.

- Littering laws enforced.

- Bars closed according to the law.

- No open prostitution (b/c it’s against the law)

We could go on and on, but no need. My point is the Thai’sNEED corruption and if they were “squeezed” they would beg police andpoliticians to “be corrupt” and let them alone. Now could the country function without it? Fair point?

Cheers,

K

[PingManDan]

LOL guess they had better start from the top, PM and on down first, then that would rule out the entire Government, then the cops, everyone , right down to the small business owner who charges farang price and Thai price

[Throatwobbler]

Either I'm just too tired or I just can't comprehend some of your verbiage. What are you saying in your post? Paying a university student 25 baht an hour to work at Swensen's just doesn't cut it for me. I have lived here permanently for several years, & I've been vacationing here every year for 20 years. I've been around. If Syam wants to progress & get out of being a 3rd World country, they've got to start paying people more. Money in your pocket, especially disposable income, is THE point.

If you put up wages then the companies have to make more money so they u up prices. This of course leads to high inflation. You have more money in your pocket but everything costs more, so you're back to square one. This is what I'm really worried about if PT get in to power and implement their policies. You will see inflation skyrocket.

[Tanaka]

Nonsense? As I stated in my 1st, enforce the law by putting rich thuggies like Thaksin in jail. Absolutely agree the Big Boys are the big problem. But in this unfortunate "real" world, this kind of chicanary is world-wide & virtually unstoppable. I'd bet the best way to start is with the little people; get the populace obeying the rules. Then their indignation just might bring down the really bad guys.... You think? Just throwing out ideas.

Sorry but that never works as when you remove one foot soldier there is another to take their place. You have to start at the top of the pyramid to cut the chain of command.

From the lead posting we can see that the PM has noticed the state of affairs but seems unwilling or unable to do anything about it. I am wondering why he has made this comment just before the election.

A corrupt petty official in the Khon Kaen Immigration Office recently tried to scam me for 2000 baht when I went to get an extension on my visa. Stop the corruption at the top and bottom

of the pile and meet in the middle. Make a few well-publicised arrests (and convictions), show that you mean business and maybe a start can be made to end this nefarious practice.

The extension to stay is 1900 B yearly. Did you mean that or did he demand another 2000?

[Just1Voice]

Corruption in Thailand? Hey, Joe, say it ain't so! I thought all Generals, both military and police, as well as politicians, were actually paid legitimate salaries that allowed them to purchase billion baht homes and new BMW's and Merc? Now you're saying that's not true?!?!?!

Next you're gonna tell me there is no Santa Clause, and the Easter Bunny is just a myth!!

[pac4155]

Nonsense? As I stated in my 1st, enforce the law by putting rich thuggies like Thaksin in jail. Absolutely agree the Big Boys are the big problem. But in this unfortunate "real" world, this kind of chicanary is world-wide & virtually unstoppable. I'd bet the best way to start is with the little people; get the populace obeying the rules. Then their indignation just might bring down the really bad guys.... You think? Just throwing out ideas.

Sorry but that never works as when you remove one foot soldier there is another to take their place. You have to start at the top of the pyramid to cut the chain of command.

From the lead posting we can see that the PM has noticed the state of affairs but seems unwilling or unable to do anything about it. I am wondering why he has made this comment just before the election.

A corrupt petty official in the Khon Kaen Immigration Office recently tried to scam me for 2000 baht when I went to get an extension on my visa. Stop the corruption at the top and bottom

of the pile and meet in the middle. Make a few well-publicised arrests (and convictions), show that you mean business and maybe a start can be made to end this nefarious practice.

The extension to stay is 1900 B yearly. Did you mean that or did he demand another 2000?

Going slightly off-topic, but yes, she tried to charge me an extra 2000 baht on top of the fixed fee of 1900 baht, just to send the paperwork to the Udon Thani office where my Thai wife's birth is registered.

I was applying for a 60 day extension as the husband of a Thai national, got married in April this year. I was unaware of the "negotiations" my wife was having with the official until we got home and she eventually

told me what the discussion was about; I went ballistic. Until the Thais themselves decide to rein in the corruption at grassroots level by embarrassing such officials in front of their colleagues, demanding their

name and to speak to their supervisor in a loud voice, and making an official complaint, then nothing is going to change. Thais hate to lose face, particularly in front of a farang, but the more noise you make in

combating the problem at local level, the better. Corruption discriminates against the poor who can't afford the tea-money to have their case heard, even when the law is on their side.

NB I eventually got an extension at the Immigration Ministry in Bangkok, from a very nice official who understood the problem and didn't demand any tea-money. In fact, there is a notice in the Ministry as to the

correct fees and to pay no more. So someone in Government is at least aware of the problem and trying to combat it, but it will be slow progress.