Thai Immigration Tightens Requirements For Retirement Visa Extensions

[phutoie2]

Precisely Teflondon, I still like to think that the British Embassy letterhead still carries some clout in these parts as opposed to the johnnies from the 'fish n chip' republics etc.

Last month at Phits Imm I presented my income letter and the young constable studying the income letter - "Blit Embassy - how many Baht to pound today?".

"Just round it up to 50 ol boy"

Job done.

D. Cameron (Hon)

[Jingthing]

At the end of the day the actual rules regarding income for a retirement extension are very clear and you either meet them or you don't.

The rules may be very clear (in general I agree with that completely). However, answer me this one. If you were an American retiree using Bangkok (using pension or combo method) and you had an extension coming up, can you honestly say it is "very clear" whether you need to IMPORT the full amount of your pension for the two months prior to your application? If yes, import, is one chunk covering the two months acceptable? That's the point of this thread. It isn't general about retirement extensions or whether people qualify under the official and generally understood rules, it IS about these specific, possibly true changes, especially the imports, which by no stretch of the imagination are "very clear." Doesn't effect you so no problem? Okie dokie. Actually, you're right, this isn't about Brits, so I wonder the relevance of a Brit saying all is well when this isn't about Brits.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[Artisi]

This thread has been read over 25,000 times and has received nearly 300 replies and contain little more than rumours, speculation, what-ifs with a sprinkling of flaming and of course no new facts or official information.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread has become a self perpetuating doomsday scenario?

As usual, all the scammers wroughting the system and are as verbal as ever - they only want our money, they don't want us here, they are ripping us off etc etc add nauseum. I like many others play by the rules and don't have even the smallest problem with immigration.

[Jingthing]

This thread has been read over 25,000 times and has received nearly 300 replies and contain little more than rumours, speculation, what-ifs with a sprinkling of flaming and of course no new facts or official information.

Am I the only one who thinks this thread has become a self perpetuating doomsday scenario?

As usual, all the scammers wroughting the system and are as verbal as ever - they only want our money, they don't want us here, they are ripping us off etc etc add nauseum. I like many others play by the rules and don't have even the smallest problem with immigration.

Agreed, it's good to play by the rules. I always do, when I KNOW the rules and the rules are CLEAR. Since you are into rules, pray tell, what exactly ARE the rules now for American applicants for retirement extensions using an income method, as far as IMPORT of claimed monies into the country. If you know authoritatively, if ANYONE really knows that, you could be of real help to some people.

Cheers.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[Penkoprod]

I think this whole thread could be "put to bed" with just a little input and clarification from the OP with regards to his subheading......"Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required"

The key part being those 3 words emboldened

But, as usual, the OP hasnt been back to either scotch or substantiate what he said, so it turns into a multipage pissing contest/flame war

(Must be too busy thinking up more April Fools posts to wind up the unwary )

Penkoprod

Edited June 9, 2011 by Penkoprod

[wolf5370]

US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000 (300,000 bt) to the US govt yearly. The penalty for not reporting is obscene, 50% of the account value or $100,000 per account. I assume they assume anyone with over 10,000 is laundering. That is why I, as an American, am not interested in triggering this report. The US govt is trying to get banks all over the world to report US citizens holdings over $10,000 to them.

So divide it between banks - it doen't have to be in the same account or even bank, just has to be here (for lump sum). No account over $10k, no worries. Seems too obvious, am I missing something???

You're missing the boat, mate. Your trick doesn't cut it. The rule is over 10K USD for even one moment of the SUM of ALL your accounts in a reporting year.

OK - I'm not an American, I was simply working of the wording of his post "US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000" - which suggests it is per account.

[wolf5370]

I'm sorry to hear that your are getting paid no interest on your bank account in Thailand. The two savings account I have in Thailand, with two different banks, do pay interest. At the moment it is 0.75%, which is double the 0.375% I got on my Swiss savings account last year. It's all relative, of course; in many other countries, interest rates may be higher than in Thailand.

Sorry Maestro, the money has to be in a Thai savings account, which pays dreadfully low (or zero) interest - sure putting it an a SET account here or any number of accounts externally you could get much more interest. His arguement was that 8 million baht would keep the rif-raf out, my counter was only an idiot would volunteer to loose so much ROI (by bringing it here unworking and earning practically zip for a year - or throw away xfer fees sending it back and forth twice a year). I stand by that claim.

I only get tiny interest on tiny money (money I xfer to live on each month) - I keep my money outside of Thailand earning 6.5% nil risk, thank you very much.

[Pib]

Regarding the 800,000 baht in a Thai bank account. I realize for the entire amount in the account to count for Retirement Extension of Stay purposes, the account has to be in your name only (i.e., an Individual account and not a joint account) and if in a joint account with the wife only half of the amount counts toward the 800,000 requirement.

I guess I have three questions assuming above is correct:

1. Say you have 600,000 baht in your Thai bank "Individual" account and 400,000 in your Thai bank "Joint" account, the 600,000 plus 200,000 from the "two" separate Thai bank accounts would meet the 800,000 requirement, right?

2. Say a person has 4 "Individual" Thai bank accounts each with 200,000 baht....a person could "combine" all accounts subtotals to meet the 800,000 requirement, right? Guess I want to confirm all the money doesn't have to be in just one account.

3. And finally, the money can be in either a Thai bank "regular" savings account and/or a "fixed" savings account, right? (I've seen some members imply only a regular savings account is accepted but even with a fixed account which earns higher interest you can draw the money out before fixed period ends).

Thanks in advance for your wisdom/experience.

[Tafia]

Another fact that nobody has mentioned here, is the difficulty in opening a Thai bank account here in the first place for a Foreigner. Most banks ask for a work permit and some just refuse. We all know there are a few who will do it - I know now of 2 in Sukumvit that will - but none in my area just outside the city would let me open an account without a work permit. What is "the legal policy" for a foreigner to open a bank account? Why make it so hard to open an account on one hand, then on the other, ask to see proof of earnings in a "Thai Bank" that you shouldn't have? Am I wrong?

Try Kasikorn, I have 2 accounts with them and 1 with Bangkok Bank BB wanted more info,housebook etc but Kasikorn just a passport and appropriate Visa that said I know guys who have opened an account with Kasikorn on tourist visas.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Tafia

[lopburi3]

Money needs to be in your name only under current policy (no more joint accounts) but multi accounts should be accepted; as well as fixed deposit accounts.

[Tafia]

Precisely Teflondon, I still like to think that the British Embassy letterhead still carries some clout in these parts as opposed to the johnnies from the 'fish n chip' republics etc.

Last month at Phits Imm I presented my income letter and the young constable studying the income letter - "Blit Embassy - how many Baht to pound today?".

"Just round it up to 50 ol boy"

Job done.

D. Cameron (Hon)

Its not so much the letter head it is that we are required to produce Evidence to prove the sum of our pensions whereas some countries do not. The British Embassy reflects that in the letter.

I wrote an earlier post which said I had read some months back of an american expats visit to Immigration, produced his embassy letter and was asked for further proof to support the amount claimed in the letter. He didn't have any and was told that they would let it pass this time but be prepared that in the future proof would be required.

I believe this is all the poster is really saying and that this is the only change - Be prepared to prove what your Embassy letter says.

(no doubt some have been caught out claiming they receive more than they do)

As you know the British Embassy will not issue a letter unless you provide documentary evidence, in my case my annual pension statement.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Tafia

[tropo]

Another fact that nobody has mentioned here, is the difficulty in opening a Thai bank account here in the first place for a Foreigner. Most banks ask for a work permit and some just refuse. We all know there are a few who will do it - I know now of 2 in Sukumvit that will - but none in my area just outside the city would let me open an account without a work permit. What is "the legal policy" for a foreigner to open a bank account? Why make it so hard to open an account on one hand, then on the other, ask to see proof of earnings in a "Thai Bank" that you shouldn't have? Am I wrong?

Try Kasikorn, I have 2 accounts with them and 1 with Bangkok Bank BB wanted more info,housebook etc but Kasikorn just a passport and appropriate Visa that said I know guys who have opened an account with Kasikorn on tourist visas.

I know guys (including yours truly) who have opened accounts with Kasikorn with no visa at all.

[fred110]

I have never seen, nor understood, the point of all this "expensive drama" in wanting proof, letters from embassy, bank statements and such that is made by Thai Immigration, about our income and financial status for a retirement/marriage visa or any other kind. I mean it's not like the Thai system has got to support us if we are "short of cash" is it? There is no Dole here. No unemployment benefit. No sickness benefit. They don't even have a social welfare system for themselves, let alone us. If we don't have enough money, we either starve or go home - apart from a very few (one who I know personally), who may get supported by their Thai wife if she is working or her family if they can afford it. This is the case for any Thai that is on the "bones of his/her ass" through bad luck, loss of work and sickness etc. There will always be some unfortunates and more than a few utter wasters, that "fall through the cracks" for many reasons, loss of income either here or back home, things have gone bad back home, ill heath - physiological as much as any other or an accident, losing it all to a scam, really bad luck such as being wrongfully arrested here and being "cleaned out by the police" - the list is endless. No matter how strict or tough Immigration make the rules, there will always be people who crash. Some of you will be thinking that these unfortunate folks may turn to crime to get by, so we should try to get rid of them before they do, or not allow them in to begin with. I say, that those criminally minded were here breaking the law to begin with and will always get in, no matter what restrictions are in place. Just like they do and have always done in any country. Perhaps more so in Thailand, as the "pickings" are still relatively easy and they thrive in a corrupt environment. The main point I am making though is this. What does it cost the country, the government or the Thai people, in cases like this where foreigners fall out? The answer it seems to me is this. Nothing! So why make it so difficult for normal folks that like this place, who would contribute not take, to want to live and settle here?

Why is it diffcult to meet the requirements of obtaining a retirement extension of stay a few hours at most to put together your documents. I donot think any country in the world allows anyone to march in and set up house keeping without the ability to support themselves.

Ha ha, the USA has about 12 million like that, they get free education and health care too.

[newbepat]

I'm sorry to hear that your are getting paid no interest on your bank account in Thailand. The two savings account I have in Thailand, with two different banks, do pay interest. At the moment it is 0.75%, which is double the 0.375% I got on my Swiss savings account last year. It's all relative, of course; in many other countries, interest rates may be higher than in Thailand.

Sorry Maestro, the money has to be in a Thai savings account, which pays dreadfully low (or zero) interest - sure putting it an a SET account here or any number of accounts externally you could get much more interest. His arguement was that 8 million baht would keep the rif-raf out, my counter was only an idiot would volunteer to loose so much ROI (by bringing it here unworking and earning practically zip for a year - or throw away xfer fees sending it back and forth twice a year). I stand by that claim.

I only get tiny interest on tiny money (money I xfer to live on each month) - I keep my money outside of Thailand earning 6.5% nil risk, thank you very much.

Here we go again, sorry to go off topic, but where can one get 6.5% nil risk

I would love to know the answer to that question

Pat :jap:

[fred110]

US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000 (300,000 bt) to the US govt yearly. The penalty for not reporting is obscene, 50% of the account value or $100,000 per account. I assume they assume anyone with over 10,000 is laundering. That is why I, as an American, am not interested in triggering this report. The US govt is trying to get banks all over the world to report US citizens holdings over $10,000 to them.

So divide it between banks - it doen't have to be in the same account or even bank, just has to be here (for lump sum). No account over $10k, no worries. Seems too obvious, am I missing something???

You're missing the boat, mate. Your trick doesn't cut it. The rule is over 10K USD for even one moment of the SUM of ALL your accounts in a reporting year.

OK - I'm not an American, I was simply working of the wording of his post "US citizens are required to report all bank accounts in excess of $10,000" - which suggests it is per account.

That's news to me. Who am I supposed to report my account to? Obama?

[Jingthing]

I think this whole thread could be "put to bed" with just a little input and clarification from the OP with regards to his subheading......"Proof of transfer of pension into Thailand required"

The key part being those 3 words emboldened

But, as usual, the OP hasnt been back to either scotch or substantiate what he said, so it turns into a multipage pissing contest/flame war

(Must be too busy thinking up more April Fools posts to wind up the unwary )

Penkoprod

I get your point, but ... NOT EXACTLY.

The phrase about required import in the OP COMBINED with this

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

might imply that TWO MONTHS of the full pension amount will be required to be IMPORTED (by the effected nationals).

Thus we are not only talking about the headline in the OP. Yes I see the other text without the headline would imply show proof, but don't need to show import, but consider if needing proof only, why ONLY two months?

Yes, PLEASE, this person Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd. responsible for providing the content in the OP, where is he now!? Khun Sunn should post here and CLARIFY the CAN OF WORMS he exploded with his statement. We already knew about sometimes being asked for PROOF, please get more and very specific info/details to us about the issue of requiring IMPORTATION of pensions. That's the key here.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[lopburi3]

That's news to me. Who am I supposed to report my account to? Obama?

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148849,00.html

And you report using this form:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

[fred110]

That's news to me. Who am I supposed to report my account to? Obama?

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148849,00.html

And you report using this form:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

Thanks for the info. Maybe next year

[Jingthing]

That's news to me. Who am I supposed to report my account to? Obama?

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=148849,00.html

And you report using this form:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf

Thanks for the info. Maybe next year

I doubt you will be so flippant about this if you learn the shockingly DRACONIAN potential penalties for not reporting when required for any year. Also keep in mind there appears to be measures in effect to force all international banks with American accounts to inform the US government about their details and this wouldn't eliminate the personal FBAR reporting requirement.

[tropo]

I get your point, but ... NOT EXACTLY.

The phrase about required import in the OP COMBINED with this

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

might imply that TWO MONTHS of the full pension amount will be required to be IMPORTED (by the effected nationals).

Did you miss the words I have highlighted?

If transfer (importation) of income had been necessary for the past month I'm sure we would have heard about it by now. We haven't and I doubt we will as this post is the nearest thing to a troll post I've ever seen in this forum. Normally people making reports of important developments/changes in Immigration policy will follow up to help people understand what is happening but this post has gone on too long without a word from the OP. He's probably sitting back and having a laugh at how worked up some members have become.

Please start a thread in the Pattaya section and let's wait to hear reports from people applying for extensions there.

Edited June 9, 2011 by tropo

[Jingthing]

I get your point, but ... NOT EXACTLY.

The phrase about required import in the OP COMBINED with this

"It has been reported that along with the statement the applicant has made at their embassy stating their monthly income, for the past month the Immigration Bureau has asked to see proof of at least two months of pension income. This requirement is not just for new applications but renewals as well", says Sunn Justubavornchai, legal advisor at Sunbelt Asia Co., Ltd.

might imply that TWO MONTHS of the full pension amount will be required to be IMPORTED (by the effected nationals).

Did you miss the words I have highlighted?

If transfer (importation) of income had been necessary for the past month I'm sure we would have heard about it by now. We haven't and I doubt we will as this post is the nearest thing to a troll post I've ever seen in this forum. Normally people making reports of important developments/changes in Immigration policy will follow up to help people understand what is happening but this post has gone on too long without a word from the OP. He's probably sitting back and having a laugh at how worked up some members have become.

Please start a thread in the Pattaya section and let's wait to hear reports from people applying for extensions there.

tropo, you make an excellent point. However, in matter of fact, I DO recall reading reports form Bangkok that some American (pension based) applicants bank accounts were indeed looked at very closely (indicating they might have been looking for specific recent transfer amounts) and also credible reports that some applicants have been explicitly warned that they will let them by this time, but next time watch out. In other words, the ambiguity and complete lack of clarity about this "news" remains in effect.

Edited June 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[moe666]

O, for <deleted>> sake so immigration ask you to show your bank account statement to prove you have money being deposited monthly, it doesn't say anything about being in a Thai bank account. Let it lay, worry about that situation if and when it arises

A few people have worked themselves into a frenzy over nothing. Officially nothing has changed as far as anyone knows, asking for income proof has always been a option at immigration just because it hasn't happened on a regular basis doesn't mean it will not be asked for in the future.

Give it a rest there is no one on this forum who knows what will happen tomorrow and what will be required, all of these key strokes are a waste of energy.

So you go to immigration and they ask for proof of income importation what are you going to do move or show proof, get over it.

[tropo]

tropo, you make an excellent point. However, in matter of fact, I DO recall reading reports form Bangkok that some American (pension based) applicants bank accounts were indeed looked at very closely (indicating they might have been looking for specific recent transfer amounts) and also credible reports that some applicants have been explicitly warned that they will let them by this time, but next time watch out. In other words, the ambiguity and complete lack of clarity about this "news" remains in effect.

A Thai bank account showing a 5000 baht balance is all that is currently required at the Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration office to make a retirement extension. I have in hand a recent leaflet listing this requirement.

It seems highly unlikely that they have suddenly, without any warning decided to ask applicants to show 2 months of account activity because anyone who doesn't transfer money to a Thai bank account would be out in the cold. I'm not personally worried about this aspect as I have been transferring over 65K per month to my Thai account as I need at least that much money every month to survive. What I want to know is whether I will need to bring supporting documents and if so, what documents will they want to see.

I'm going to pop down to the Immigration Office tomorrow to ask them if any requirements have changed specifically to me as an Australian. I'm sure the same will apply to an American. In the meanwhile let's hope to hear some reports over the coming days.

Edited June 9, 2011 by tropo

[Jingthing]

O, for <deleted>> sake so immigration ask you to show your bank account statement to prove you have money being deposited monthly, it doesn't say anything about being in a Thai bank account. Let it lay, worry about that situation if and when it arises

A few people have worked themselves into a frenzy over nothing. Officially nothing has changed as far as anyone knows, asking for income proof has always been a option at immigration just because it hasn't happened on a regular basis doesn't mean it will not be asked for in the future.

Give it a rest there is no one on this forum who knows what will happen tomorrow and what will be required, all of these key strokes are a waste of energy.

So you go to immigration and they ask for proof of income importation what are you going to do move or show proof, get over it.

Hey, there.

You're wrong.

The OP says IMPORT. So you don't know and please don't act like you do.

The reports I just referred to were clear about the officers asking to see flows in THAI bank accounts. OK?

[Jingthing]

tropo, you make an excellent point. However, in matter of fact, I DO recall reading reports form Bangkok that some American (pension based) applicants bank accounts were indeed looked at very closely (indicating they might have been looking for specific recent transfer amounts) and also credible reports that some applicants have been explicitly warned that they will let them by this time, but next time watch out. In other words, the ambiguity and complete lack of clarity about this "news" remains in effect.

A Thai bank account showing a 5000 baht balance is all that is currently required at the Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration office to make a retirement extension. I have in hand a recent leaflet listing this requirement.

It seems highly unlikely that they have suddenly, without any warning decided to ask applicants to show 2 months of account activity because anyone who doesn't transfer money to a Thai bank account would be out in the cold. I'm not personally worried about this aspect as I have been transferring over 65K per month to my Thai account as I need at least that much money every month to survive. What I want to know is whether I will need to bring supporting documents and if so, what documents will they want to see.

I'm going to pop down to the Immigration Office tomorrow to ask them if any requirements have changed specifically to me as an Australian. I'm sure the same will apply to an American. In the meanwhile let's hope to hear some reports over the coming days.

This may still be BANGKOK only, if even that. So reports from Pattaya will be useful for people there, but it hardly mean that if the report is negative on the news being real, that it isn't happening in Bangkok, or that it won't spread, as these things historically have a tendency to do.

[tropo]

O, for <deleted>> sake ..............................

Give it a rest there is no one on this forum who knows what will happen tomorrow and what will be required, all of these key strokes are a waste of energy.

............... get over it.

Give us a break and don't bother posting in this thread. Don't waste your energy on excessive key strokes.

[tropo]

This may still be BANGKOK only, if even that. So reports from Pattaya will be useful for people there, but it hardly mean that if the report is negative on the news being real, that it isn't happening in Bangkok, or that it won't spread, as these things historically have a tendency to do.

Well, at least we can find out what is going down in our neck of the woods. I need to apply for an extension in 2 week's time so I really need to know what's going on NOW.

[moe666]

I have never seen, nor understood, the point of all this "expensive drama" in wanting proof, letters from embassy, bank statements and such that is made by Thai Immigration, about our income and financial status for a retirement/marriage visa or any other kind. I mean it's not like the Thai system has got to support us if we are "short of cash" is it? There is no Dole here. No unemployment benefit. No sickness benefit. They don't even have a social welfare system for themselves, let alone us. If we don't have enough money, we either starve or go home - apart from a very few (one who I know personally), who may get supported by their Thai wife if she is working or her family if they can afford it. This is the case for any Thai that is on the "bones of his/her ass" through bad luck, loss of work and sickness etc. There will always be some unfortunates and more than a few utter wasters, that "fall through the cracks" for many reasons, loss of income either here or back home, things have gone bad back home, ill heath - physiological as much as any other or an accident, losing it all to a scam, really bad luck such as being wrongfully arrested here and being "cleaned out by the police" - the list is endless. No matter how strict or tough Immigration make the rules, there will always be people who crash. Some of you will be thinking that these unfortunate folks may turn to crime to get by, so we should try to get rid of them before they do, or not allow them in to begin with. I say, that those criminally minded were here breaking the law to begin with and will always get in, no matter what restrictions are in place. Just like they do and have always done in any country. Perhaps more so in Thailand, as the "pickings" are still relatively easy and they thrive in a corrupt environment. The main point I am making though is this. What does it cost the country, the government or the Thai people, in cases like this where foreigners fall out? The answer it seems to me is this. Nothing! So why make it so difficult for normal folks that like this place, who would contribute not take, to want to live and settle here?

Why is it diffcult to meet the requirements of obtaining a retirement extension of stay a few hours at most to put together your documents. I donot think any country in the world allows anyone to march in and set up house keeping without the ability to support themselves.

Ha ha, the USA has about 12 million like that, they get free education and health care too.

wheres your proof lot of talk no proof. Many illigals pay taxes and social security which they will not recieve any benefit from stop lisyening to Palin, beck, and a few others get the straight facts. this thread is about Thai Visa issues not US immigration policy

[moe666]

This may still be BANGKOK only, if even that. So reports from Pattaya will be useful for people there, but it hardly mean that if the report is negative on the news being real, that it isn't happening in Bangkok, or that it won't spread, as these things historically have a tendency to do.

Well, at least we can find out what is going down in our neck of the woods. I need to apply for an extension in 2 week's time so I really need to know what's going on NOW.

Tropo do us a favor and make a early trip to immigration and ask whats up, I think will give everyone peace of mind including yourself. I think it is the only way to get a clear answer.In Feb. when I got my extension nothing extra was asked for but thats old news. Good luck on your extension.

[tropo]

Tropo do us a favor and make a early trip to immigration and ask whats up, I think will give everyone peace of mind including yourself. I think it is the only way to get a clear answer.In Feb. when I got my extension nothing extra was asked for but thats old news. Good luck on your extension.

I will pop down tomorrow.

What's your nationality?