Power In The Bathroom

[Greenside]

I'm from the UK and the only power outlet of any kind that we see in a bathroom (or at least within reach of the wet bit in a bathroom) is a shaver socket which, as I understand it, has a built in safety cutout as well as a transformer to supply 110V. I did a TV search on "shaver" to see if this topic has been discussed and found an old post saying even they weren't allowed any more although I built a new bathroom only five years ago which had a brand new one fitted and I still see them widely available without mention that they are only for replacement use so I'm a little confused already...

On to Thailand: worryingly, both my architect and the electrician were in agreement that it was OK to place a 220V outlet right next to the hand basin in our new bathroom. Is there some kind of equivalent of the Shaver Socket here or is it that people run a socket on its own RCD (would that work?) or should I fire them both?

The metal box is already in the wall and placed in such a way as to preclude fitting a UK shaver socket and although I can just have them blank it off, I'd quite like to have power available for an electric toothbrush or water pik. Can anyone suggest a solution?

[InterestedObserver]

Just make sure that circuit is protected with an RCD.

[Crossy]

Just make sure that circuit is protected with an RCD.

Indeed, make that a 10mA RCD.

Back in the UK a regular outlet is now permitted in bathrooms, but it must be outside the 'zones', put simply it must be 3m from the bath or shower, I've not actually seen a bathroom big enough to permit an outlet.

[Greenside]

If they put in a 10mA RCD and the circuit has a bunch of other things on it (just supposing here) won't it be likely to trip often?

Edited July 3, 2011 by Greenside

[InterestedObserver]

If they put in a 10mA RCD and the circuit has a bunch of other things on it (just supposing here) won't it be likely to trip often?

Then get an RCD outlet, they are supposed to be available in Thailand.

[katabeachbum]

Just make sure that circuit is protected with an RCD.

Indeed, make that a 10mA RCD.

Back in the UK a regular outlet is now permitted in bathrooms, but it must be outside the 'zones', put simply it must be 3m from the bath or shower, I've not actually seen a bathroom big enough to permit an outlet.

yepp, thats what I do

regular ground outlet, min 3 meters from shower/bath faucet, 10mA RCD in ceiling for this outlet only

Smaller bathrooms, no outlets, so they use extension cord from bedroom

1200watt hair blower with euro plug (not even ground)

[Greenside]

Just make sure that circuit is protected with an RCD.

Indeed, make that a 10mA RCD.

Back in the UK a regular outlet is now permitted in bathrooms, but it must be outside the 'zones', put simply it must be 3m from the bath or shower, I've not actually seen a bathroom big enough to permit an outlet.

yepp, thats what I do

regular ground outlet, min 3 meters from shower/bath faucet, 10mA RCD in ceiling for this outlet only

Smaller bathrooms, no outlets, so they use extension cord from bedroom

1200watt hair blower with euro plug (not even ground)

So are you saying that even using an RCD outlet or running a regular outlet as the only device on a circuit protected by a 10mA RCD it must still be 3m away from the handbasin/bath/shower?

[Crossy]

So are you saying that even using an RCD outlet or running a regular outlet as the only device on a circuit protected by a 10mA RCD it must still be 3m away from the handbasin/bath/shower?

That would be UK regs, here no restrictions but common sense should play a part.

We have an outlet 300mm above the basin in our rented apartment, but the only thing ever plugged in is the smelly wotsit. 'Er Indoors uses the dryer in the bedroom where she can sit down at her mirror

[katabeachbum]

So are you saying that even using an RCD outlet or running a regular outlet as the only device on a circuit protected by a 10mA RCD it must still be 3m away from the handbasin/bath/shower?

That would be UK regs, here no restrictions but common sense should play a part.

We have an outlet 300mm above the basin in our rented apartment, but the only thing ever plugged in is the smelly wotsit. 'Er Indoors uses the dryer in the bedroom where she can sit down at her mirror

I do 3 m from shower/bath, but above hand basin at 1,8m from floor, and 10mA RCD

In one of my houses I have not build myself, each bathroom has an outlet 20cm above hand basin, max 1 meter from shower/bath, no RCD. I have disconnected them all

[Greenside]

Can't seem to find a 10mA RCD anywhere - lowest is 32mA.

[InterestedObserver]

Can't seem to find a 10mA RCD anywhere - lowest is 32mA.

For bathroom/shower only use the 10ma RCD!

[Greenside]

Can't seem to find a 10mA RCD anywhere - lowest is 32mA.

For bathroom/shower only use the 10ma RCD!

So can you (or someone) please tell me where I can get one that will fit a consumer unit in Thailand. Please.

[Crossy]

Can't seem to find a 10mA RCD anywhere - lowest is 32mA.

For bathroom/shower only use the 10ma RCD!

So can you (or someone) please tell me where I can get one that will fit a consumer unit in Thailand. Please.

What manufacturer of CU do you have, our local HomePro have 10mA RCBO units that fit Square-D.

[Greenside]

We haven't bought it yet so I'll get over there and check it out. Thank you!

[Greenside]

HomePro surprised me by having a couple of 10mA RCDs in stock to fit a Square D consumer unit so I'll make sure that's the brand we fit. HomePro were genuinely mystified as to why I wanted one!

I see that Square D is a Siemens brand and someone in CM told me that they had seen an outlet made by them with an RCD built in. HomePro didn't know what I was talking about but it seems to me that Siemens are missing a trick by not making them readily available and following up with some publicity about the dangers of power outlets in the bathroom. Not only is there the obvious original fit market but there must be tens if not hundreds of thousands of houses where a safety outlet could be retro-fitted, wouldn't you think?

PS Yes, I know this is Thailand

Edited July 10, 2011 by Greenside

[Crossy]

Haco Thailand do an RCD outlet, well at least it's in their catalog, never seen one in the flesh though

[Spoonman]

Just make sure that circuit is protected with an RCD.

Indeed, make that a 10mA RCD.

Back in the UK a regular outlet is now permitted in bathrooms, but it must be outside the 'zones', put simply it must be 3m from the bath or shower, I've not actually seen a bathroom big enough to permit an outlet.

Amusing, back home in AUS they have had outlets in the bathrooms since jesus was born.

[Greenside]

Just make sure that circuit is protected with an RCD.

Indeed, make that a 10mA RCD.

Back in the UK a regular outlet is now permitted in bathrooms, but it must be outside the 'zones', put simply it must be 3m from the bath or shower, I've not actually seen a bathroom big enough to permit an outlet.

Amusing, back home in AUS they have had outlets in the bathrooms since jesus was born.

There could be a message there somewhere

Meanwhile, I found the Haco RCD Outlet and have asked them about suppliers up here in CM....

This is exactly what I was looking for. The 10mA RCD for the consumer unit was 1500 baht so as long as this is in the ballpark I'll try for it. Thanks Crossy!

[katabeachbum]

HomePro surprised me by having a couple of 10mA RCDs in stock to fit a Square D consumer unit so I'll make sure that's the brand we fit. HomePro were genuinely mystified as to why I wanted one!

I see that Square D is a Siemens brand and someone in CM told me that they had seen an outlet made by them with an RCD built in. HomePro didn't know what I was talking about but it seems to me that Siemens are missing a trick by not making them readily available and following up with some publicity about the dangers of power outlets in the bathroom. Not only is there the obvious original fit market but there must be tens if not hundreds of thousands of houses where a safety outlet could be retro-fitted, wouldn't you think?

PS Yes, I know this is Thailand

as most houses do not have a loadcenter and no earth, simply one main breaker 63A on a 5/15A meter and 4mm2 cables, the RCD market isnt that large

should have seen the eyes of the villagers when I installed a SquareD LC with proper earth cables in MIL house. spend all that money, and still pay the PEA same money per unit, for what

[electau]

RCDs are available in 10mA and 30mA . Us a SPRCD ( socket protected RCD if available).Mount about 500mm to the side of the washbasin and 500mm approx above the top of washbasin cabinet. This is in a zone 3 area. There are four zones for shower and washbasin areas in bathrooms, zone 0, 1, 2, 3.

Use common sense also.

Source AS3000. Section 6 .Damp Situations. AS3000 only requires 30mA RCD protection.

[chrisandsu]

would i be dumb in asking if you would need the same for kitchen outlets?

thanks

[Crossy]

would i be dumb in asking if you would need the same for kitchen outlets?

thanks

Up 2 U.

It can't hurt but is nowhere near as important as RCD in the bathroom where people tend to be wet (unless you're in the habit of showering in the kitchen).

[chrisandsu]

thanks Crossy

was a little confused as my house here in America has 2 gcfi outlets in the kitchen granted there's probably no reason to have them

thanks for that

[CDNinKS]

I tried to by a 10mA Square D RCB at my local shop and according to the Square D catalog they are not available, only 30mA. 1450baht

Found this on a website:

1mA : minimal perception level.

5 mA : GFCI trip level.

10 mA : Average Adult "Let-Go" Threshold.

15 mA : Muscles 'freeze' in 50% of the population.

30 mA : Difficult breathing, fibrillation in a small child.

0.05A to 0.1A : Possible ventricular fibrillation.

0.1A to 0.2A : Certain ventricular fibrillation

4A + : Heart paralysis, tissue and organ damage.

Although they did clarify that it is really the time for an RCB to trip in milliseconds that is more important than the actual mA

Edited July 22, 2011 by CDNinKS

[Crossy]

I tried to by a 10mA Square D RCB at my local shop and according to the Square D catalog they are not available, only 30mA. 1450baht

I got my 10mA Square-D units in HomePro Rangsit (IIRC they were about that price), they didn't have the 30mA ones I wanted for the lounge (where the leaky technology lives).

I'll check if they have a part number visible now they're installed.

[CDNinKS]

hey Crossy, maybe we should do a deal.....I can get 30mA and you can get 10mA. Now that I bought a 30mA and have looked at the paperwork that came with it, they do indeed list a 10mA.....so the shops catalog is wrong. I will keep the 30 for some other area and source a 10 for the hong nam.

[Crossy]

hey Crossy, maybe we should do a deal.....I can get 30mA and you can get 10mA. Now that I bought a 30mA and have looked at the paperwork that came with it, they do indeed list a 10mA.....so the shops catalog is wrong. I will keep the 30 for some other area and source a 10 for the hong nam.

Where are you mate? A deal could be in the offing if you can't get a 10mA unit

[CDNinKS]

I'm in Hua Hin and to be honest I didn't check the mA of the ones in Home Pro as the price was 1750 and I knew my local shop was 1450. I will go back to HP and see what the mA is. If you can't find any 30mA I can send you one from here.

Edited July 22, 2011 by CDNinKS

[CDNinKS]

Here is the one I got...

[CDNinKS]

Found a 10mA at Home Pro.....1750 baht. So a bit more money but this one will be good for the bathroom.