Perception Of Thai Gold

[tracy3eyes]

Can someone be so kind to help me understand why a western gold shop might say that a thai 96.5% gold bar is fake? When its not fake! Ignorance?, lack of experience? testing different? What does one say to someone who has been told by a western gold shop that the thai gold they have is fake? When it isnt

[Paul888]

First thing to do is get a second and third opinion I would have thought. The shop may be mistaken or you may have been conned.

[Pib]

It may be ignorance....and probably protecting themselves from scammers. I know you are talking gold bars, but western gold shops are use to dealing with 10 and 14K gold jewelry, and maybe a little bit of 18K gold jewelry and coins...but mostly 10 and 14K. Years back when my sister in the States first saw my baht chain and wedding ring which are both Thai gold of around 23K she said they look fake since they looked so yellow. But she followed that statement with Americans are just so use to seeing and buying only 10K or 14K gold in most cases that any gold that don't look that pale yellow they may think it's costume jewelry.

[CMSteve]

A real gold shop will do a chemical test to confirm and correctly assay. Its likely that the shop was trying to get you to part with your gold for a cheap price.

of course, this is assuming that you actually did buy real gold in the first place..... It is possible that you bought fake gold.

[givenall]

<br />A real gold shop will do a chemical test to confirm and correctly assay.    Its likely that the shop was trying to get you to part with your gold for a cheap price.     <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />of course, this is assuming that you actually did buy real gold in the first place.....     It is possible that you bought fake gold.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I always assume all gold in Thailand are not what they say. I only buy my jewelry from someone I trust and can go back anytime to exchange or fix problems.

[Mrjlh]

Did you have a "valid" certification of the gold that you bought? Take the gold to a certified assayer and get it certified. Then you will know for sure. Then when you go into a western shop there's no argument. However, selling gold to a jeweler is at a lower price that buying gold from a jeweler. Those limits are set by an international agency on a daily basis. Just follow the prices in any of the newspapers.

Always buy from a reputable shop that will give you a written certification. Also ask for the American certification if they offer it. That's my advice.

Try here for pricing: http://www.goldgramb...com/calculator/

And while I'm at it, I have a really nice 23.7K , 24" Gold necklaces that someone needs to sell. Weights 57.5 grams for only 83,000B. Weight of the gold alone. And the price keeps going up.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Mrjlh

[tracy3eyes]

I checked the gold by going back to the same shop I have used many times and asked if they would buy back at the much higher price now and no problem so that confirmed to me that it must be for real.

See image

But I did sell one of the bars to someone in California and then a few days after they received it they said that it was fake and that they had been to a gold shop that day. I know its not fake and I advised them to take it to a real gold expert, thai town in LA or alike becuase western gold shops are not used to dealing with Thai yellow gold, nor are they aware that its a better investment and 100% cash to value redeemable. Now I have a dilemma trying to convince the buyer that what they have is the real deal.

Not sure how best to proceed with this

[bifftastic]

If you are sure it's not fake. Tell the person you sold it to to find an Assayers office of their choice and go with them. Then the office can do a test, certify it's real. Job done.

[tracy3eyes]

Problem is Im in Thai and they are in California. But I will tell them anyway. Assume there are assayer offices in California? Is that what they call them in the US?

[bifftastic]

Ah yes, that would be a long way to go!

Your customer needs to get a proper evaluation of the gold rather than just going to a jewellery shop. Some jewellery is made from gold but that doesn't mean the staff in a jewellery shop know anything about gold, nor be able to test it properly.

I don't know what Americans call things, sorry

Google search for 'gold assayers california' came up with this

http://www.google.co.uk/search?aq=f&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=gold+assayers+california

Edited July 15, 2011 by bifftastic

[cloudhopper]

And while I'm at it, I have a really nice 23.7K , 24" Gold necklaces that someone needs to sell. Weights 57.5 grams for only 83,000B. Weight of the gold alone. And the price keeps going up.

The price does not keep going up. And please tell 'someone' they can easily and quickly get market price for their necklace at the nearest gold shop, the only place anyone with any sense should ever buy gold from IMO.

[Mrjlh]

And while I'm at it, I have a really nice 23.7K , 24" Gold necklaces that someone needs to sell. Weights 57.5 grams for only 83,000B. Weight of the gold alone. And the price keeps going up.

The price does not keep going up. And please tell 'someone' they can easily and quickly get market price for their necklace at the nearest gold shop, the only place anyone with any sense should ever buy gold from IMO.

True buy from a gold shop unless you have adequate information on the product you are buying. And gold is going up!

http://seekingold.com/index.php/gold-price-trend-and-forecast.html

Edited July 15, 2011 by Mrjlh

[cloudhopper]

True buy from a gold shop unless you have adequate information on the product you are buying. And gold is going up!

And especially not from anyone offering a piece at less than what they could easily get for it at the nearest gold shop. One recently stolen, or perhaps even fake.

Gold last dropped 100 baht/baht BTW.

[Mrjlh]

True buy from a gold shop unless you have adequate information on the product you are buying. And gold is going up!

And especially not from anyone offering a piece at less than what they could easily get for it at the nearest gold shop. One recently stolen, or perhaps even fake.

Gold last dropped 100 baht/baht BTW.

Gold prices fluctuate but the trend is that it has been slowly rising. It remains a good investment. And the piece I know of has been the Thai family a long time. They will most likely go to a shop to sell it. But right now not too many shops are buying. So if some one wants a good buy its available.

[tracy3eyes]

thanks bifftastic

will point the buyer to these

[p_brownstone]

True buy from a gold shop unless you have adequate information on the product you are buying. And gold is going up!

And especially not from anyone offering a piece at less than what they could easily get for it at the nearest gold shop. One recently stolen, or perhaps even fake.

Gold last dropped 100 baht/baht BTW.

Gold prices fluctuate but the trend is that it has been slowly rising. It remains a good investment. And the piece I know of has been the Thai family a long time. They will most likely go to a shop to sell it. But right now not too many shops are buying. So if some one wants a good buy its available.

Are you in Thailand - selling Thai (96.5 % pure) Gold?

No way can anyone say "not too many shops are buying" - and definitely not in Thailand; if you cannot sell it then there is definitely something suspect.

As a Thai Link look at :

http://www.goldtraders.or.th/

To give an International perspective :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/8638644/Return-of-the-Gold-Standard-as-world-order-unravels.html

(Just one of many)

A movement downwards of (cash) Baht 100 per Baht weight of Gold in Thailand is completely insignificant - when the current price is (cash) Baht 22,500.- per Baht weight - in Thailand these prices can vary several times in one day, but the trend is - and in my opinion always will be - upwards.

Proviso : for physical Gold (stuff you can hold in your hand) - forget completely paper "Funds" and so on.

Patrick

[p_brownstone]

I checked the gold by going back to the same shop I have used many times and asked if they would buy back at the much higher price now and no problem so that confirmed to me that it must be for real.

See image

But I did sell one of the bars to someone in California and then a few days after they received it they said that it was fake and that they had been to a gold shop that day. I know its not fake and I advised them to take it to a real gold expert, thai town in LA or alike becuase western gold shops are not used to dealing with Thai yellow gold, nor are they aware that its a better investment and 100% cash to value redeemable. Now I have a dilemma trying to convince the buyer that what they have is the real deal.

Not sure how best to proceed with this

You surely cannot be serious?

You sent a "Gold Bar" to someone in the U.S. with no Deposit, secure agreement or money paid into - for example - an Escrow Account and then you are surprised that your "Customer", having received your "gift", tells you it is fake and so refuses to pay!?

Tell you what - send me 4 or 5 Bars (just to get a reliable Assayed average Value you understand) and I will get back to you with the results.

May take a while however.

Patrick

Edited July 15, 2011 by p_brownstone

[Mrjlh]

True buy from a gold shop unless you have adequate information on the product you are buying. And gold is going up!

And especially not from anyone offering a piece at less than what they could easily get for it at the nearest gold shop. One recently stolen, or perhaps even fake.

Gold last dropped 100 baht/baht BTW.

Gold prices fluctuate but the trend is that it has been slowly rising. It remains a good investment. And the piece I know of has been the Thai family a long time. They will most likely go to a shop to sell it. But right now not too many shops are buying. So if some one wants a good buy its available.

Are you in Thailand - selling Thai (96.5 % pure) Gold?

No way can anyone say "not too many shops are buying" - and definitely not in Thailand; if you cannot sell it then there is definitely something suspect.

As a Thai Link look at :

http://www.goldtraders.or.th/

To give an International perspective :

http://www.telegraph...r-unravels.html

(Just one of many)

A movement downwards of (cash) Baht 100 per Baht weight of Gold in Thailand is completely insignificant - when the current price is (cash) Baht 22,500.- per Baht weight - in Thailand these prices can vary several times in one day, but the trend is - and in my opinion always will be - upwards.

Proviso : for physical Gold (stuff you can hold in your hand) - forget completely paper "Funds" and so on.

Patrick

Sorry, but I know what the prices are here. You are preaching to the choir. Shops are slow right now because they're waiting for the new gov to get started. Not all shops have money to buy because people aren't buying.. The gold traders and such want hidden fee's for buying unless you know of one specifically I can contact in Bangkok. They play their games too. The family has it so its up to them. I'm just trying to help them out.

[p_brownstone]

Sorry, but I know what the prices are here. You are preaching to the choir. Shops are slow right now because they're waiting for the new gov to get started. Not all shops have money to buy because people aren't buying.. The gold traders and such want hidden fee's for buying unless you know of one specifically I can contact in Bangkok. They play their games too. The family has it so its up to them. I'm just trying to help them out.

Gold is an International Commodity - its demand is in no way frozen simply because Thailand currently has no "new government", or the fact that Greece or Italy or any other Country may have fiscal problems - whatever.

Quite the reverse in fact.

It is an International, tradable, Commodity and widely in demand as a secure hedge againt devaluation on Fiat currencies.

If anyone is telling you that Thai Goldshops are NOT buying for any reason you are being decieved - or are just naive.

Go to Yaowarrat tomorrow (or any other day of the week actually) - Goldshops are all over the place, in particular look for any one of 5 or 6 branches of "Hua Seng Heng" - packed out with Customers buying and selling; literally millions of Baht being paid over the counter in Cash for physical Gold, buying and selling, every day. (And no "hidden Fees" everything clearly documented).

Patrick

Edit : for clarity

Edited July 15, 2011 by p_brownstone

[Mrjlh]

Sorry, but I know what the prices are here. You are preaching to the choir. Shops are slow right now because they're waiting for the new gov to get started. Not all shops have money to buy because people aren't buying.. The gold traders and such want hidden fee's for buying unless you know of one specifically I can contact in Bangkok. They play their games too. The family has it so its up to them. I'm just trying to help them out.

Gold is an International Commodity - its demand is in no way frozen simply because Thailand currently has no "new government", or the fact that Greece or Italy or any other Country may have fiscal problems - whatever.

Quite the reverse in fact.

It is an International, tradable, Commodity and widely in demand as a secure hedge againt devaluation on Fiat currencies.

If anyone is telling you that Thai Goldshops are NOT buying for any reason you are being decieved - or are just naive.

Go to Yaowarrat tomorrow (or any other day of the week actually) - Goldshops are all over the place, in particular look for any one of 5 or 6 branches of "Hua Seng Heng" - packed out with Customers buying and selling; literally millions of Baht being paid over the counter in Cash for physical Gold, buying and selling, every day. (And no "hidden Fees" everything clearly documented).

Patrick

Edit : for clarity

I think its more of the shops I went too wanting to sell than it is wanting to buy. Sell to Farang ...buy from Thai.

I haven't gone to the Hua Seng Heng branches yet. But I do know of them. I'll check them out. Thanks

[Gonsalviz]

I had one of those morons tell me that pure gold was liquid. He could only check as high as 22k and told me that the gold I had was 22k because if it was pure, it would be liquid.

I just looked at him and walked out.

[tracy3eyes]

reply to p_brownstone

of course not. Im not wet behind the ears. they paid me via paypal first.

[p_brownstone]

reply to p_brownstone

of course not. Im not wet behind the ears. they paid me via paypal first.

That's by no means foolproof however.

If the Buyer puts in a complaint to Paypal that what he bought was fake Paypal will freeze the Funds.

Patrick

[Naam]

I had one of those morons tell me that pure gold was liquid. He could only check as high as 22k and told me that the gold I had was 22k because if it was pure, it would be liquid.

I just looked at him and walked out.

you mean pure gold is not liquid?

[richard_smith237]

Actually in the technical sense one of those morons was in fact correct - Gold is liquid, so is glass and so are many other more viscous elements, mixtures and compounds around us which we would usually assume are solid. However, I somehow doubt this particular moron had a genuine grasp of this and was perhaps being a dick and coming up with any old BS rather than saying 'I'm not sure'......

I can understand foreign shops being suspicious if they are not familiar with the grade of Thai Gold, I also imagine they are somewhat unfamiliar with foreign stamping.

[morrobay]

Actually in the technical sense one of those morons was in fact correct - Gold is liquid, so is glass and so are many other more viscous elements, mixtures and compounds around us which we would usually assume are solid. However, I somehow doubt this particular moron had a genuine grasp of this and was perhaps being a dick and coming up with any old BS rather than saying 'I'm not sure'......

I can understand foreign shops being suspicious if they are not familiar with the grade of Thai Gold, I also imagine they are somewhat unfamiliar with foreign stamping.

Glass is a liquid ( it has no fixed lattice structure ). Gold is not a liquid. Elemental gold is in a lattice structure called Face Centered Cubic . Refer to this site for physical properties of gold :

http://chemistry.abo...acts/a/gold.htm

Edited July 17, 2011 by morrobay

[ExpatJ]

True buy from a gold shop unless you have adequate information on the product you are buying. And gold is going up!

And especially not from anyone offering a piece at less than what they could easily get for it at the nearest gold shop. One recently stolen, or perhaps even fake.

Gold last dropped 100 baht/baht BTW.

Gold prices fluctuate but the trend is that it has been slowly rising. It remains a good investment. And the piece I know of has been the Thai family a long time. They will most likely go to a shop to sell it. But right now not too many shops are buying. So if some one wants a good buy its available.

Are you in Thailand - selling Thai (96.5 % pure) Gold?

No way can anyone say "not too many shops are buying" - and definitely not in Thailand; if you cannot sell it then there is definitely something suspect.

As a Thai Link look at :

http://www.goldtraders.or.th/

To give an International perspective :

http://www.telegraph...r-unravels.html

(Just one of many)

A movement downwards of (cash) Baht 100 per Baht weight of Gold in Thailand is completely insignificant - when the current price is (cash) Baht 22,500.- per Baht weight - in Thailand these prices can vary several times in one day, but the trend is - and in my opinion always will be - upwards.

Proviso : for physical Gold (stuff you can hold in your hand) - forget completely paper "Funds" and so on.

Patrick

Patrick- i wouldnt dimiss paper funds as you say. I just bought Kbanks Gold Fund (listed as 'kasgold' on bloomberg)- it invests 80% in the largest gold ETF in the US and 20% in gold related stocks mining etc. The fund price is directly linked to the price of gold and the fund also pays out dividends 2-3 times per year which have averged 6%-10%!

Edited July 17, 2011 by ExpatJ

[Impkenai]

Pure gold of 100% purity is very soft, but NOT liquid.

24K gold (usually termed as pure gold) is NOT 100% pure as commonly available in goldsmith shops. It is actually >99.7% gold, mixed with 00.3% alloy to give it the desired hardness.

Proof gold, as minted, certified and sold as collectors items, such as the Canadian Maple Leave, has higher gold content at >99.95%, with a small trace of alloy for hardness.

Some western countries, like the U.S. as pointed out in earlier posts, do not deal with gold content higher than 18K. They are not used to seeing 22K or 24K gold which is a very deep yellow color. So they might mistaken such purity gold as 'fake'.

Hope this helps.

[p_brownstone]

Patrick- i wouldnt dimiss paper funds as you say. I just bought Kbanks Gold Fund (listed as 'kasgold' on bloomberg)- it invests 80% in the largest gold ETF in the US and 20% in gold related stocks mining etc. The fund price is directly linked to the price of gold and the fund also pays out dividends 2-3 times per year which have averged 6%-10%!

The point is that the amount of Gold being traded by these "funds" is a high multiple of the amount of physical Gold that has ever been mined - ergo if (when?) the Economy implodes there will simply not be enough actual Gold in existence to redeem - at the then current Market price for physical Gold - all the funds invested.

It's just paper, like Dollar Bills or any other currency - backed by nothing but the reputation of the Issuer.

Patrick

[KRS1]

I checked the gold by going back to the same shop I have used many times and asked if they would buy back at the much higher price now and no problem so that confirmed to me that it must be for real.

See image

But I did sell one of the bars to someone in California and then a few days after they received it they said that it was fake and that they had been to a gold shop that day. I know its not fake and I advised them to take it to a real gold expert, thai town in LA or alike becuase western gold shops are not used to dealing with Thai yellow gold, nor are they aware that its a better investment and 100% cash to value redeemable. Now I have a dilemma trying to convince the buyer that what they have is the real deal.

Not sure how best to proceed with this

Hope you didn't use Paypal, because you would have already lost the case.

Back 20 years ago i took a gold thai bracelet to a jewelery store to get an estimate of value, they also told me it was fake, but they didn't seem like it was a big deal.

Fast forward 7 years later i get the bracelet weighed and the bracelet was lighter than when i first had it, by 3.5 grams. That shop 7 years ago had the bracelet in the back for more than half an hour and i always wondered why it took so long, theres no doubt in my mind that they took some gold off and stretched it back into length.

In thailand there is a saying, "if you see a snake and an indian at the same time, hit the indian first."