Thai Election Promises Evaporate In Cold Light Of Reality: Watchdog

[jdinasia]

When you suggest that something was possible but no longer is ... and nothing has changed to make it different, and use the word "reality" ..... you appear to suggest that the PTP campaign promises were realistic to begin with.

Just because reality raised its ugly head, doesn't mean that the PTP's heart was not on the right place.

Reality's ugly head was always there .... and PTP promised the masses anything to get into office, when the Dem's promised things that were much more realistic. Maybe a flaw in the Dem campaign was to not simply tell more outrageous lies than PTP?

[noahvail]

When you suggest that something was possible but no longer is ... and nothing has changed to make it different, and use the word "reality" ..... you appear to suggest that the PTP campaign promises were realistic to begin with.

Just because reality raised its ugly head, doesn't mean that the PTP's heart was not on the right place.

Reality's ugly head was always there .... and PTP promised the masses anything to get into office, when the Dem's promised things that were much more realistic. Maybe a flaw in the Dem campaign was to not simply tell more outrageous lies than PTP?

If memory serves, the Dems came out with their 25% increase over two years proposal first. Then the PTP upped the stakes. Getting into a bidding war would not have served Thailand well. If the Dems had gone even higher than the PTP, beat the PTP in the elections, and then backtracked, the protests would have already started.

[Buchholz]

At least two major Pheu Thai policies have already been backtracked upon by the party's top executives, including Yingluck Shinawatra

[rucus7]

[ Maybe a flaw in the Dem campaign was to not simply tell more outrageous lies than PTP?

Well JDinasia, I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. So it sounds as if we agree, the PTP is more creative than the Democrats.

[lannarebirth]

At least two major Pheu Thai policies have already been backtracked upon by the party's top executives, including Yingluck Shinawatra

But the sign said...

[Tanaka]

Are you suggesting it's completely OK for a party to promise things that they simply can't deliver?

Our definition of "promise" may differ.

Probably that of "a lie" too.

[jdinasia]

Well JDinasia, I think you may have just hit the nail on the head. So it sounds as if we agree, the PTP is more creative than the Democrats.

You mean that they knew they were lying ... we do agree. The people that they were making the promises/lies to, trusted them ...

We do agree apparently that the Dems chose not to lie. Sad that those that knew they were lying were willing to do so. It may just come back to bite them ... and that will be bad all the way around.

[Crushdepth]

At least two major Pheu Thai policies have already been backtracked upon by the party's top executives, including Yingluck Shinawatra

But the sign said...

Classic. I hope the opposition scavenged some of those for use in the next election.

[Tanaka]

Hhmm, I hope the Thai's learn this is a good reason to question the promises that are made by politicians, and not blindly listen to what they say. That way, they can gauge how empty they are. All of this information on the mechanics of each promise would have probably changed some peoples minds on election day.

But, give it another 13 days, and all of them will have forgotten what promises were even made! Hello higher water prices, and same salary!!!!

"Thais learn that this is a good reason to question". That is an oxymoron.

[Thailand]

I believe that the statements by the PTP pre election may well have been terminological inexactitudes that will be overcome by going part of the way to fulfill the voters expectations, upping the minimum wage but not to 300 baht and reducing income tax under certain circumstances and other minor carrots that may sweeten the various pills.

[rixalex]

I believe that the statements by the PTP pre election may well have been terminological inexactitudes that will be overcome by going part of the way to fulfill the voters expectations, upping the minimum wage but not to 300 baht and reducing income tax under certain circumstances and other minor carrots that may sweeten the various pills.

terminological inexactitudes

Politician speak if ever i heard it.

[noahvail]

I believe that the statements by the PTP pre election may well have been terminological inexactitudes that will be overcome by going part of the way to fulfill the voters expectations, upping the minimum wage but not to 300 baht and reducing income tax under certain circumstances and other minor carrots that may sweeten the various pills.

terminological inexactitudes

Politician speak if ever i heard it.

Perhaps you'd prefer "prevarications of that commodity commonly known as the truth."

[siampolee]

\Excuse me.

Why have you got an extended proboscis Ying ?

[Thailand]

I believe that the statements by the PTP pre election may well have been terminological inexactitudes that will be overcome by going part of the way to fulfill the voters expectations, upping the minimum wage but not to 300 baht and reducing income tax under certain circumstances and other minor carrots that may sweeten the various pills.

terminological inexactitudes

Politician speak if ever i heard it.

From one of the most famous- Winston Churchill

[animatic]

The only question worth asking is: "Who will get the blame for the PTP not honouring their promises?"

Because it won't be the fault of PTP or Thaksin.

Abhisit, Suthep and Kprn of course,

for not having created a workers paradise

and huge profits for all from thin air in a moribund economy.

They are still trying to blame Chuan fro stuff in the 70's he didn't do

and if anything repaired properly.

[animatic]

I have no views about Thai Politics, as I am only a long term guest here, but I said 4 years ago "Taksin WILL be back." I will be proved right.

Considering the man is only in his 50s, i don't think making the prediction that at some point, he will return, is really sticking your neck out.

He turned 60 earlier in the year.

[jdinasia]

I have no views about Thai Politics, as I am only a long term guest here, but I said 4 years ago "Taksin WILL be back." I will be proved right.

Considering the man is only in his 50s, i don't think making the prediction that at some point, he will return, is really sticking your neck out.

He turned 60 earlier in the year.

I am assuming there is a 10 year statute of limitations even after convicted .......

[animatic]

The cold light of reality suggests that the ruling elites of Thailand constitute a kleptocracy. That is the nature of politics which is at its core just a system to determine who gets the money and who gets the knife. It is no different anywhere else regardless of the operational fictions that pertain. In America, 1 percent of the population holds 40 percent of the wealth and is determined to get more of the pie and is succeeding. The European 'democracy's' are more or less similarly constituted even though their privileged leadership espouses support for socialistic values and its egaltarian assumptions. Currently 'democratic' governments around the globe are trying to enforce the idea of austerity (getting on with less) to their populations even though the privileged and the leadership has no such intention for itself. In Thailand expectations are high among the masses for 'getting more' through democracy. All the players in the political process here have encouraged this belief. Campaign promises are the clearest example of this charade and it also illuminates and heightens the danger of raising expectations that no political player here would in fact support.

Thaksins time in office was a kleptocracy,

The old elite in Thailand has been a feudal entity slowly receeeding into the past, while the more modern kleptocracy uses modern PR methods and old school Feudal control methodes to hound a larger share of the elite pie from the old guard.

Old school feudal systems were built on a diety give right to rule or pull differing segments together under on umbrella for security and societal issues as city states developed and merged. Many died off much earlier, others became more figure heads. In Thailand there seems a tendency to blame the top for the malevolent workings of the middle ground players.

Kow tow societal customs makes all below scrabble to be above. And this, more than an amorphous uber elite, is the true cause of keeping the poor poor. But you can not fight against a concept within the society, like Kow Tow, and expect to get a win in your lifetime, hence going after allegedly bad the top as a symbol, even if most of your problems derive from your neighbors and local bosses.

Edited July 16, 2011 by animatic

[NALAK]

new british goverment has just done U turns on 2 election pledges, same same no matter who you vote for the Bas***ds always win

[ableguy]

I feel extremely indignant.

They cant touch you for it.

[rixalex]

I believe that the statements by the PTP pre election may well have been terminological inexactitudes that will be overcome by going part of the way to fulfill the voters expectations, upping the minimum wage but not to 300 baht and reducing income tax under certain circumstances and other minor carrots that may sweeten the various pills.

terminological inexactitudes

Politician speak if ever i heard it.

From one of the most famous- Winston Churchill

Flowery euphemisms for that smelly stuff that comes out the back end of cows aside, it will be interesting to see how many of the red/PTP sympathisers on this board, who have claimed to be sympathetic to that group because of their strong beliefs in improving the lot of the downtrodden poor working classes, react to this election promise back-peddling. One would imagine that were they sincere about their beliefs, and not merely blind followers, they would be expressing something ranging from extreme disappointment to outrage and disgust.

At the moment all i have heard from that "camp" however are a range of excuses, each one as ridiculous as the other.

[ableguy]

The cold light of reality suggests that the ruling elites of Thailand constitute a kleptocracy. That is the nature of politics which is at its core just a system to determine who gets the money and who gets the knife. It is no different anywhere else regardless of the operational fictions that pertain. In America, 1 percent of the population holds 40 percent of the wealth and is determined to get more of the pie and is succeeding. The European 'democracy's' are more or less similarly constituted even though their privileged leadership espouses support for socialistic values and its egaltarian assumptions. Currently 'democratic' governments around the globe are trying to enforce the idea of austerity (getting on with less) to their populations even though the privileged and the leadership has no such intention for itself. In Thailand expectations are high among the masses for 'getting more' through democracy. All the players in the political process here have encouraged this belief. Campaign promises are the clearest example of this charade and it also illuminates and heightens the danger of raising expectations that no political player here would in fact support.

Thaksins time in office was a kleptocracy,

The old elite in Thailand has been a feudal entity slowly receeeding into the past, while the more modern kleptocracy uses modern PR methods and old school Feudal control methodes to hound a larger share of the elite pie from the old guard.

Old school feudal systems were built on a diety give right to rule or pull differing segments together under on umbrella for security and societal issues as city states developed and merged. MAny died off much earlier, others became more figure heads. In Thailand there seems a tendency to blame the top for the malevolent workings of the middle ground players. Kow tow societal customs makes all below scrabble to be above. And this more than an amorphous elite is the true cause of keeping the poor poor. But you can fight against a concept with in the society and expect to get a win in your lifetime, hence going after the top.

[animatic]

The cold light of reality suggests that the ruling elites of Thailand constitute a kleptocracy. That is the nature of politics which is at its core just a system to determine who gets the money and who gets the knife. It is no different anywhere else regardless of the operational fictions that pertain. In America, 1 percent of the population holds 40 percent of the wealth and is determined to get more of the pie and is succeeding. The European 'democracy's' are more or less similarly constituted even though their privileged leadership espouses support for socialistic values and its egaltarian assumptions. Currently 'democratic' governments around the globe are trying to enforce the idea of austerity (getting on with less) to their populations even though the privileged and the leadership has no such intention for itself. In Thailand expectations are high among the masses for 'getting more' through democracy. All the players in the political process here have encouraged this belief. Campaign promises are the clearest example of this charade and it also illuminates and heightens the danger of raising expectations that no political player here would in fact support.

Thaksins time in office was a kleptocracy,

The old elite in Thailand has been a feudal entity slowly receeeding into the past, while the more modern kleptocracy uses modern PR methods and old school Feudal control methodes to hound a larger share of the elite pie from the old guard.

Old school feudal systems were built on a diety give right to rule or pull differing segments together under on umbrella for security and societal issues as city states developed and merged. Many died off much earlier, others became more figure heads. In Thailand there seems a tendency to blame the top for the malevolent workings of the middle ground players.

Kow tow societal customs makes all below scrabble to be above. And this, more than an amorphous uber elite, is the true cause of keeping the poor poor. But you can not fight against a concept within the society, like Kow Tow, and expect to get a win in your lifetime, hence going after allegedly bad the top as a symbol, even if most of your problems derive from your neighbors and local bosses.

And the musical comment is apro pos of something?

Edited July 16, 2011 by animatic

[SteeleJoe]

They are still trying to blame Chuan fro stuff in the 70's he didn't do

and if anything repaired properly.

They do try and blame him -- but Chuan wasn't PM until 1992. I don't think anyone is blaming him for what he did as Deputy Minister of Justice in the 70's...

[rubl]

At least two major Pheu Thai policies have already been backtracked upon by the party's top executives, including Yingluck Shinawatra

But the sign said...

Now pay attention please. That 'sign' is a campaign placard. So what Plodprasop Surasawadee, the deputy party leader said still applies:

"He even admitted that the election campaign rhetoric was one thing, and what the new government could do in the real world another."

Just for the fun of it:

"Will you give me a straight answer to a straight question?"

"So long as you are not asking me to resort to crude generalisations or vulgar over-simplifications, such as a simple yes or no," he said, in a manner that contrived to be both openly ingenuous and deeply evasive, "I shall do my utmost to oblige."

Edited July 16, 2011 by rubl

[SteeleJoe]

Kow tow societal customs makes all below scrabble to be above. And this, more than an amorphous uber elite, is the true cause of keeping the poor poor. But you can not fight against a concept within the society, like Kow Tow, and expect to get a win in your lifetime, hence going after allegedly bad the top as a symbol...

Outstanding stuff. Nailed it.

But to nitpick: while it's clear what you mean when you refer "Kow tow societal customs, rather than "Kowtow", I would have used Sakdina ( ศักดินา ); it's not only more linguistically and culturally appropriate, it's more comprehensive and accurate in my opinion.

[Ricardo]

Wikipedia says Thaksin was born on 26th July 1949, which would make him 61 years old right now, reaching 62 in about 10 days' time.

[OzMick]

Does this mean debt forgiveness, credit cards for farmers, taxi, and tuk tuk drivers may not be forthcoming? Wonder if the Thai voters will display the same patience as my wife when I tell her to wait a hour or so, as the next good restaurant is about 60 kilometer up the road?

It was mentioned that the 15,000 baht for rice paddy (20,000 for hom mali) was only available to farmers that were issued with government credit cards. I imagine there will be a lot of restrictions on getting the credit cards, just so that there is no need to pay the rice subsidies.

I've heard a rumour that they will be phased in, initially only available to rice farmers in Bangkok and Phuket provinces, other provinces over the next decade or two!

[OzMick]

Well the ThaiVisa malcontents are out in force once again. It seems like they just love to quibble. I think the term "promises broken" is being used a little too freely today. How can anyone not believe that the PTP did not genuinely desire to raise the minimum wage to 300 Baht per day? Likewise with the gas tax/levy, it would have put some extra money in everyone's pocket. Just because reality raised its ugly head, doesn't mean that the PTP's heart was not on the right place. Somehow it feels like nit-picking to suggest that the PTP knew it would/could not fulfill these ideas(promises?) Are the malcontents implying falsehoods may have been perpetrated on the Thai voters? Seems like a case of sour grapes to me.

Will you cash my rubber cheque for a million baht? I promise that I genuinely desire to have the funds in my account to cover it, and my heart is in the right place, I just checked it.

[OzMick]

Well the ThaiVisa malcontents are out in force once again. It seems like they just love to quibble. I think the term "promises broken" is being used a little too freely today. How can anyone not believe that the PTP did not genuinely desire to raise the minimum wage to 300 Baht per hour? Likewise with the gas tax/levy, it would have put some extra money in everyone's pocket. Just because reality raised its ugly head, doesn't mean that the PTP's heart was not on the right place. Somehow it feels like nit-picking to suggest tht the PTP knew it would/could not fulfill these ideas(promises?) Are the malcontents implying falsehoods may have been perpetrated on the Thai voters? Seems like a case of sour grapes to me.

"Are the malcontents implying falsehoods may have been perpetrated on the Thai voters? " - Ummm ... Yes.

Are you suggesting it's completely OK for a party to promise things that they simply can't deliver?

Reality today and reality last month simply isn't different. Promising something that was unrealistic to sway votes is simply a lie. The problem is that the Dems had realistic proposals on the table and PTP had to lie.

No, the problem was that the voters couldn't tell the difference. In no country with a politically savvy population and a critical press would they have been allowed to get away with making unfulfillable promises..