Thailand's Road To Democracy: Greed Is The Obstacle

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Thailand's road to democracy: Greed is the obstacle

By The Nation

A mature democratic society will only be built when voters put public interest above personal gain

What is the most important component of a democratic society? Different people will have different answers. But it is undeniable that a key component is citizens with democratic minds who put the public interest above personal benefits offered by scheming and selfish politicians.

These citizens do not need to be highly educated or affluent, but they must be open-minded, tolerant about differing political views, and sufficiently informed about current affairs, in order that they can decide without bias what is good or bad for the country.

Looking abroad, you will discover that countries with higher democratic development than Thailand's have a great number of quality citizens who tend not to support any acts by any group of people that go against the national interest or could weaken the country's stability. Certainly, these people are not easily lured or hired into committing such acts themselves.

It is true that not all citizens in democratically developed countries meet those standards, but most of them do. That explains why their democracies are more stable than ours.

Look at our country and you will see the difference. Many people in Thailand can still be bought, and they value their short-term benefits over the country's long-term interest. Greed seems to be a major compass for their direction in life.

Many Thai voters base their decisions on the financial or material benefits offered to them. In the past, cash was handed directly to voters but today the vote buying is more discreet - the money is transferred through ATMs. Many people are also influenced by campaign promises of populist policies involving handsome handouts.

The trick always works in this country, where voters often choose what is best for them rather than for their country.

The point is that it does not matter how we describe our country's political system - whether we call it a fully-fledged democracy, partly democratic, a military dictatorship, authoritarian rule, a system dominated by money politics, or whatever. What matters is rather what it actually is.

We may be unable to gain a clear view of our society for several reasons - political bias, poor analytical ability, blind patriotic sentiment, or pure ignorance.

A pessimistic view says Thailand's democracy - once a poster-boy and regional leader in terms of democratic development - is going downhill, with severe social division and unending political conflict. Pessimistic observers do not expect the situation to improve in the aftermath of July 3's general election.

An optimistic view sees all the confusion, confrontation and crisis - as well as violence - as part of a transitional period for Thailand as it progresses towards a higher level of democratic development. Optimistic observers, including former prime minister Anand Panyarachun in his recent interview with the BBC, note that most - if not all - countries with a mature democracy have had to experience a tumultuous period like Thailand's some time during their long political history. In some of those countries, severe social conflicts led to a civil war.

Thailand so far has managed to avoid the eruption of a large-scale armed conflict, and the country is recovering quite well from last year's violent turmoil, which left 91 people dead and some 2,000 others injured. Some observers attribute the fast recovery to the resilience of Thai society while others jokingly note that Thais tend to forget easily.

The political unrest over recent years should be treated as a lesson for our society - a mistake that we should not repeat in the future if we want to grow up to become a mature democracy.

If we want our country to be a real democracy, we have to act as citizens of a real democracy and we need to teach our children to do the same.

In a real democracy, citizens do not just go to the polls when there is an election, or take to the streets when there is a cause to support. They tolerate minority views. They respect the rights of fellow citizens. They denounce mob rule and political intimidation. They value the system's survival rather than that of an individual or a certain group of people.

If a mature democracy is our goal, we the people should begin today by stopping any acts or behaviour that go against democratic principles, and instead promote the positive values that will lead us to that end.

-- The Nation 2011-07-19

[hanuman2543]

In a real democracy, citizens do not just go to the polls when there is an election, or take to the streets when there is a cause to support. They tolerate minority views. They respect the rights of fellow citizens. They denounce mob rule and political intimidation. They value the system's survival rather than that of an individual or a certain group of people.

It is still a very long way to go. Nothing of this can be seen in Thailand.

[Crushdepth]

Vote for corrupt politicians, get a corrupt government. Surprised?

[hammered]

What is meant by "quality citizens"? It implies inequality. Surely a democracy consists of an electorate that whatever their education, level of nationalism, wealth, job or political leaning are all formally equal in the eyes of the law and definitely the ballot box and in whether they wish to demonstrate or not.

Thailand is a developing democracy going through times of change that are difficult but not unique to the country.

[ginjag]

Vote for corrupt politicians, get a corrupt government. Surprised?

The greed starts from the top, The Thaksin regime and cronies is a fine example( they are not alone though)

Greed is rife right through the system, Government, LOCAL government, municipalities -provincial, These local elected VIPs (greedy morons) is a better word. A vast majority are receiving backhanders from contracts, They do little work at their town offices as they are looking after their business interests.

Your emphasis on topic is narrowed down to the voters, and it's TRUE =BUT=what do you expect them to do when the powers that run the country are setting a lousy example.

To name a few others--Bib-resort rip offs-airport duty FREE-2 tier pay system-

We all know, the people know. Get what you can while you can attitude. Hence the tourism decline.

[Lancelot]

Greed is a huge factor here, as well as back home. Its a human trait that has been with us since the dawn of humanity.

In addition to the greed factor, I also see less consideration for others here in Asia. Hungry? Just double park and hold up traffic inconviencing many commuters. Want a pack of smokes? Just jump the line at 7-11.

To be fair this attitude of "It's all about me" certainly exists in the west; however; I feel its much more the custom here in asia.

[animatic]

Greed is a basic component of getting a higher wei and more respect,

if 'you have' you are automatically above someone else you may know who has less.

This drives some people to crave face and ways to get it in immoral ways,

because the END justifies all means in their minds.

Some will kill just because they lost a few points of face,

is it any wonder others will cheat anyone and everyone to get ahead,

and if they are 'above' someone it is easier to see them as subservient or

having a debt to pass up the chain to them.

The farther down the face chain the more they can be expected to be subservient and do as told including hand over earnings. Which goes a long way to also explain why some will try like hell to raise their level of face and reverse their standing.

This is a basic structural fault in the Face / Kow Tow, societal system here,

and not something you can back down in a few generations of trying.

So no wonder politicians are often the worst of the lot, or have no compunctions about hiring the worst of the worst to do dirty work for them.

Of course when you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.

Edited July 19, 2011 by animatic

[bobmac10]

What is meant by "quality citizens"? It implies inequality. Surely a democracy consists of an electorate that whatever their education, level of nationalism, wealth, job or political leaning are all formally equal in the eyes of the law and definitely the ballot box and in whether they wish to demonstrate or not.

Thailand is a developing democracy going through times of change that are difficult but not unique to the country.

Could not agree more.

look at the incredible history of the U.S , Britain and European countries, wars, coups, revolutions, civil wars all to achieve democracy.

It has taken us hundreds of years and it;s not going to happen overnight here.

I think it would be a shame if they lost their Buddhist tolerance and acceptance which makes this country so beautiful and unique.

[Swiss1960]

"Looking abroad, you will discover that countries with higher democratic development than Thailand's have a great number of quality citizens who tend not to support any acts by any group of people that go against the national interest or could weaken the country's stability."

What a STUPID STUPID STUPID statement this is...

First of all, the "quality citizens" who are elected into parliaments MIGHT be specialized in one or other areas of governing a country / a district. For most other decisions that must be taken by parliament, those "quality citizens" will either vote along their party line or get consultancy from outsiders.

Second, as an example within the Swiss parliament, almost EVERY MP has various interest groups who consult him... health industry is know to consult around 25% of all MP's in Switzerland... Energy industry has dozends of consultants allocated around the capital city and is inviting MP's for "informational meetings" about the future of Energy Politics....

Where there is money and power involved, interest groups WILL do their best to influence politicians who will at some stage take decisions important for the rich and powerful... maybe Swiss politicians don't take us much direct money into their personal pocket (except for their election campaigns), but when you look at the various positions they hold in Boards of stock listed companies, you can easily imagine that they tend to support every act for every group whose interest they support...

[MaxYakov]

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind.

- Gordon Gekko in the movie 'Wall Street'

So ... is it greed or the dearth of ethics and consideration of others and the future and a sense of impunity ranging from double-parking, line-jumping right up to high level corruption among all the citizens?

As far as democracies go, are there any, really? Aren't most of them 'representative republics' in actuality where the representatives ignore their constituents desires once elected?

Edited July 19, 2011 by MaxYakov

[CosmicSurfer]

In a real democracy, citizens do not just go to the polls when there is an election, or take to the streets when there is a cause to support. They tolerate minority views. They respect the rights of fellow citizens. They denounce mob rule and political intimidation. They value the system's survival rather than that of an individual or a certain group of people.

It is still a very long way to go. Nothing of this can be seen in Thailand.

Very Very true... Wish more people, Both Thais and some Farangs on this Board understood this reality.

But you forgot the lack of tolerance towards Corruption and Corrupt Politicians and Law Enforcement...

Speaking of which, you can't leave out just That.. Real "Law Enforcement" and respect for both the Rule of law and the Rights of Others, even if they are a minority..

And the Biggie... True FREEDOM.. Freedom of The Media (Press).. Freedom of Speech... Freedom to live, love and take care of others, especially your family (Spouse/Father), be they Thai born or not.... Freedom to take care of your Thai family through work.... Freedom to get a Real education and to learn to Think and Express your own ideas and creativity... Freedom to be a contributing part of society and a new home...

Oh... Then there is "Equality"... Hmmmmm!!!!

I could go on...

CS

[dominique355]

I don't agree with the OP that greed is the main problem on Thailand's path to democracy.

In my view, the following obstacles prevent the establishment of a true democracy:

1. ( censured )

2. Education. People without basic knowledge of the state's institutions, separation of power and the functioning of a

state, they will never be able to make appropriate choices

3. Lack of accountability. How is it possible that e.g. a General Sonthi is elected into a "democratic" parliament, when

all his past shows that he has absolutely no respect whatsoever for the law and Constitution? Well, he has never been

held responsible and he has no sense of responsibility. The same goes for the Red Shirt leaders and many other

politicians.

4. Certain laws here make it impossible to bring the politicians (and military and police) actions to the public's

attention, because of the threat of being prosecuted under the Thai laws about libel, slander etc., where the

truth is no excuse for tainting someone's reputation. In other words, you could get to jail for calling a thief a thief.

5. Some basic human rights are constantly violated, in particular the freedom of speech. Computer crime laws, LM law etc.

are a great weapon in the hands of the establishment to silence different opinions, which are so important in a real

democracy.

6. Centralization of all power. No autonomy for provinces, regions, areas. Everything is decided by bureaucrats in Bangkok

without any involvement of those concerned.

Indeed, Thailand is lightyears away from a true democracy.

[hellodolly]

What is meant by "quality citizens"? It implies inequality. Surely a democracy consists of an electorate that whatever their education, level of nationalism, wealth, job or political leaning are all formally equal in the eyes of the law and definitely the ballot box and in whether they wish to demonstrate or not.

Thailand is a developing democracy going through times of change that are difficult but not unique to the country.

Excellent post

[rreddin]

Greed is a basic component of getting a higher wei and more respect,

if 'you have' you are automatically above someone else you may know who has less.

This drives some people to crave face and ways to get it in immoral ways,

because the END justifies all means in their minds.

Some will kill just because they lost a few points of face,

is it any wonder others will cheat anyone and everyone to get ahead,

and if they are 'above' someone it is easier to see them as subservient or

having a debt to pass up the chain to them.

The farther down the face chain the more they can be expected to be subservient and do as told including hand over earnings. Which goes a long way to also explain why some will try like hell to raise their level of face and reverse their standing.

This is a basic structural fault in the Face / Kow Tow, societal system here,

and not something you can back down in a few generations of trying.

So no wonder politicians are often the worst of the lot, or have no compunctions about hiring the worst of the worst to do dirty work for them.

Of course when you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas.

Greed is not the real problem, it is only a bi-product of a system of civil, political and military organisation that has at its heart the toleration of what we call "corruption" - a system that was formalised in the 19th Century, but not entirely swept away by the 1932 revolution and subsequent constitutions. Historically, it has not always been the politicians (local or national) that have been the most corrupt. The move towards a more open and transparent democracy has highlighted some aspects of the problem, but there will be no solution until the root cause is tackled. That is going to take a very long time to achieve.

[exbelg]

greed... money...

look at the bank's power... they control the nation, the politicians... those who play in their cards, get rewarded...

any politician should be forbidden to have any links in the business world to stop corruption at the highest level

and get paid to do solely 1 job : defend the public's (tax payer) interests, not their own, their business partners where they are stakeholders, their friends , their family ...

[lannarebirth]

Vote for corrupt politicians, get a corrupt government. Surprised?

The greed starts from the top, The Thaksin regime and cronies is a fine example( they are not alone though)

Greed is rife right through the system, Government, LOCAL government, municipalities -provincial, These local elected VIPs (greedy morons) is a better word. A vast majority are receiving backhanders from contracts, They do little work at their town offices as they are looking after their business interests.

Your emphasis on topic is narrowed down to the voters, and it's TRUE =BUT=what do you expect them to do when the powers that run the country are setting a lousy example.

To name a few others--Bib-resort rip offs-airport duty FREE-2 tier pay system-

We all know, the people know. Get what you can while you can attitude. Hence the tourism decline.

Did you see the Surat Thani official that got gunned down yesterday? Half a dozen hitmen opened fire on him but his own henchmen returned fire. It's Dodge City in the provinces.

[moto77]

LOL... this happens everywhere. In fact it's WORSE in the USA.

After he got elected Obama sent every American a check for $400--as promised.

[canadarider]

My wife, who is from Issan, said all that need to be said about politics in Thai. " It starts at the top, when the people see all the business men, police, people in power taking money and paying people off to get out of tickets etc. then everyone looses respect for them and the law and does the same".

Nuff said

[CosmicSurfer]

LOL... this happens everywhere. In fact it's WORSE in the USA.

After he got elected Obama sent every American a check for $400--as promised.

He was Just following Bush's Example, who did it first.

And in BOTH cases, it wasn't a Gift.. It was just an advance against their Tax rebates!

And in Most western Democratic countries.. corrupt officials who get Caught go to Jail!!!.

Not re-elected for a second Term... Marion Barry in Washington, DC, excepted.

CS

Edited July 19, 2011 by CosmicSurfer

[Gandalf8353]

As far as democracies go, are there any, really? Aren't most of them 'representative republics' in actuality where the representatives ignore their constituents desires once elected?

Seems to be the criteria for being elected to public office anywhere, even in the vaunted "democracy" the USA. Promises galore, then once in office, accumulate wealth for the rest of your life while ignoring the people who put you there. Yes, most are called "representative republics, but the only people those elected represent are themselves.

[Gandalf8353]

LOL... this happens everywhere. In fact it's WORSE in the USA.

After he got elected Obama sent every American a check for $400--as promised.

Oh, really? I am on a pension and didn't see a nickel. Mum is on Social Security, she didn't see a nickel either. The only thing I've seen is a military pension getting slammed with tax increases two years in a row with no COLA for several years. They ALL lie, everywhere. The surest way to tell if any politician is lying is to watch for their lips to move.

[TongueThaied]

The "wai" is more than meets the simple eye. There are many differnet ways to wai, or not wai at all, depending on the social status of the wai'er and the wai'ee. Something a simple as the wai perpetuates social inequality. If this country ever wants to get on the road to democratic equal opportunity. it must scrap the wai and replace it with the handshake, which the parties enter equally.

[FrankBE]

greed... money...

look at the bank's power... they control the nation, the politicians... those who play in their cards, get rewarded...

any politician should be forbidden to have any links in the business world to stop corruption at the highest level

and get paid to do solely 1 job : defend the public's (tax payer) interests, not their own, their business partners where they are stakeholders, their friends , their family ...

Hi there, i hope you won't give Belgium (i'm belgian) as an example ...

It would be a joke !

Our politicians have the most "sticky" fingers around...

[animatic]

The "wai" is more than meets the simple eye. There are many differnet ways to wai, or not wai at all, depending on the social status of the wai'er and the wai'ee. Something a simple as the wai perpetuates social inequality. If this country ever wants to get on the road to democratic equal opportunity. it must scrap the wai and replace it with the handshake, which the parties enter equally.

Yes good point. The hand shake is recognized as

the acknowledgment of making a deal or transaction or a greeting

on equal footing for both parties.

[anterian]

The "wai" is more than meets the simple eye. There are many differnet ways to wai, or not wai at all, depending on the social status of the wai'er and the wai'ee. Something a simple as the wai perpetuates social inequality. If this country ever wants to get on the road to democratic equal opportunity. it must scrap the wai and replace it with the handshake, which the parties enter equally.

Yes good point. The hand shake is recognized as

the acknowledgment of making a deal or transaction or a greeting

on equal footing for both parties.

The handshake originated as a means of showing there was no concealed weapon in your hand, this was why you shake the offered hand to show no knife is tucked up your sleeve. The Wai on the other hand allows a knife to be hidden in the hands or the sleeve, never trust a wai