Dag Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I too Dag, have lost a few to "rattlers". Why is it, that private operators are so few and far between here? I know of only one and they fly VIPs to a few hotels - or used to from the old airport and may still do from the new one. I would think there is a good demand, though with the bad rep T/L has, how many would use them is hard to say. Could it be too many restrictions? Price would not matter to many Thais. There are quite a few private planes here though. Owned by both Thais and foreigners. Helicopters are so common in NZ where I come from. Many farmers own one and a lot use them to go shopping in town. Same with light aircraft(some of those ARE held together with tape and wire. I've seen it) though there are not many things that will stop the likes of a Piper Cub - bar losing a wing, engine failure just means putting it down quicker than planned. They glide a long way with no power as will a Cessna 172. Accidents will always happen regardless. Meticulous care and maintenance just keep the odds down to a minimum. Most people though, seem to think that accidents only happen to others and not them, is my experience. Pretty much not allowed...it has only been a few years that Bangkok had a somewhat dedicated Evac heli....however it also does tourist flights so god knows what happens if it is needed for a medical emergancy mid way through a tourist flight somewhere. Basically i believe it is because of the military controlled airspace....and the concerns of drug and arms and people running. Just imagine how easy to land in Cambo and dodge the authorities inbound. I asked the operator of the flying club down pattaya why there is no civil heli ops....his basic reply was 'because they are all retarded'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I too Dag, have lost a few to "rattlers". Why is it, that private operators are so few and far between here? I know of only one and they fly VIPs to a few hotels - or used to from the old airport and may still do from the new one. I would think there is a good demand, though with the bad rep T/L has, how many would use them is hard to say. Could it be too many restrictions? Price would not matter to many Thais. There are quite a few private planes here though. Owned by both Thais and foreigners. Helicopters are so common in NZ where I come from. Many farmers own one and a lot use them to go shopping in town. Same with light aircraft(some of those ARE held together with tape and wire. I've seen it) though there are not many things that will stop the likes of a Piper Cub - bar losing a wing, engine failure just means putting it down quicker than planned. They glide a long way with no power as will a Cessna 172. Accidents will always happen regardless. Meticulous care and maintenance just keep the odds down to a minimum. Most people though, seem to think that accidents only happen to others and not them, is my experience. Pretty much not allowed...it has only been a few years that Bangkok had a somewhat dedicated Evac heli....however it also does tourist flights so god knows what happens if it is needed for a medical emergancy mid way through a tourist flight somewhere. Basically i believe it is because of the military controlled airspace....and the concerns of drug and arms and people running. Just imagine how easy to land in Cambo and dodge the authorities inbound. I asked the operator of the flying club down pattaya why there is no civil heli ops....his basic reply was 'because they are all retarded'. "Private operators" fly literally a few thousand people a week on and offshore in the gulf of Thailand..... ....... and the choppers are flown by both expat and Thai pilots and they do an excellent job and in cdetain cases fly in and out of military bases...!!! and has been this way for over 20 years.... Strange how this topic has brought out all the resident "helicopter pilots" talking about subjects they know nothing about....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an insepction conducted, not at every pre-flight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dag Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an insepction conducted, not at every pre-flight Wow....for an expert you sound kind of....unexpertish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an insepction conducted, not at every pre-flight Wow....for an expert you sound kind of....unexpertish.... I dont profess to be an expert.....just stating fact after having been on many hundreds of chopper flights in various parts of the world and by virtue of my job which requires me to know basic chopper operational procedures as pertinent to offshore operations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an inspection conducted, not at every pre-flight What about a part filled Tank , after it has used an amount , condensation in the Fuel maybe a factor. when we use to check fuel for water all we did was syphon some off in a stainless steel bucket and check to see if any water was in it. Now they have chemicals additives in the fuel to Dispel water Edited July 27, 2011 by Thongkorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dag Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an insepction conducted, not at every pre-flight Wow....for an expert you sound kind of....unexpertish.... I dont profess to be an expert.....just stating fact after having been on many hundreds of chopper flights in various parts of the world and by virtue of my job which requires me to know basic chopper operational procedures as pertinent to offshore operations... So sitting on a seat in the back of the bus you know all about flying helicopters.......thats funny......you ex special ops also ?? oh.....somewhat poor argument about phuket and no heli schools anywhere cos nothing good to look at in Phuket....hilarious.......best you stick to oil and gas as that seems to be an upper limit for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an inspection conducted, not at every pre-flight What about a part filled Tank , after it has used an amount , condensation in the Fuel maybe a factor. when we use to check fuel for water all we did was syphon some off in a stainless steel bucket and check to see if any water was in it. Now they have chemicals additives in the fuel to Dispel water Current procedure only requires an inspection of fuel before you refuel, as you quite correctly state its mainly looking for water , I stand to be corrected but a certain percentage of water is acceptable, above a certain limit thats when it can become a problem and they shouldnt be using the fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 A reply in which the quoted post was altered has been removed as well as a reply to that post. 30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 So sitting on a seat in the back of the bus you know all about flying helicopters.......thats funny......you ex special ops also ?? oh.....somewhat poor argument about phuket and no heli schools anywhere cos nothing good to look at in Phuket....hilarious.......best you stick to oil and gas as that seems to be an upper limit for you Sitting in the back seat of chopper I have obviously learnt a little more about chopper operations than you have..... ......<deleted> has ex special ops got to do with it.......this best you can do....when given facts you go off topic and talk through your bottom.... Who said Phket has nothing good to look at ?..... I said it is most likely not cost effective to operate. I will gladly stick with O&G, it pays me exceptionally well and beats the h*ll out of being 1. a bitter retired old farang or 2. an "English teacher" or 3. an "internet businessman" which one are you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dag Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Sitting in the back seat of chopper I have obviously learnt a little more about chopper operations than you have..... ......<deleted> has ex special ops got to do with it.......this best you can do....when given facts you go off topic and talk through your bottom.... Who said Phket has nothing good to look at ?..... I said it is most likely not cost effective to operate. I will gladly stick with O&G, it pays me exceptionally well and beats the h*ll out of being 1. a bitter retired old farang or 2. an "English teacher" or 3. an "internet businessman" which one are you ? Yes....back of the bus experts always know more than the ones that sit up the front..... Re your 1,2,3 guessing game...keep counting a tad higher and you might get me....if you can count above 3 that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trembly Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jebhead Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 (edited) I would really doubt contaminated fuel caused these accidents. Each and every preflight includes taking a sample from the sump and visually inspecting the fuel. Not quite.....only when a chopper takes fuel on is an insepction conducted, not at every pre-flight Wow....for an expert you sound kind of....unexpertish.... "unexpertish" Did you make that up? JH Edited July 27, 2011 by metisdead Itallics removed, please use default forum font like everybody else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thongkorn Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 The AFTA I use to take for the RAF for Most Fast JETs cold not have any water in them, the only difference from Civil aviation was as you say The fuel had a tolerance level for water,The Military AFTA had additives in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtronbom Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 I also never said, hinted at or tried to give the impression that I was a heli pilot, let alone an expert. If that was the case, I'd most likely know the answers to the questions I have posted. I have held a PP license for fixed wing single engine planes as well as a glider, but that was in another lifetime it seems now, it was that long ago. I did learn the theory for helicopters and have 1 take off to my credit and some hovering, which is a lot harder than it looks, along with a small amount of flying time. Certainly no expert, I did grow up around flying, so picked up a lot. All the pilots I knew, checked fuel on every pre-flight, as well as the stock held in drums. Anything to lessen the odds they'd say. Back to the topic. I see on the news last night, that there is an ongoing investigation into the 3 crashes and into the heli scene in general, from ground to air. How much "us public" will ever learn from the results, is debatable, as we know, though in the last few years, I have noticed that T/L has become a lot more transparent - not that you can see through it yet - but it's better than it used to be. You see and hear things/topics on the tele now, that would have never seen the "light of day" a few years ago. Thai people also talk far more openly than in the past and don't pretend ignorance so much. Perhaps(despite the heavy censorship here)the internet has played a positive role in Thailand. I'm not complaining though, as I knew the rules when I chose to live here. A good example of this new openness, is the Taksin coming back thing. 10 years ago, he could have slipped back and no one would dare oppose it, let alone talk about it openly. I am still confident that T/L is getting better - just at it's own pace. There is still far too much "power and influence" held by a minority who run things here to the benefit of their family interests, and always will be to a degree, as in most countries, but I feel that will fade to a reasonable level in the near future. Anyway. Lets try and keep this post civil people and on topic. I didn't start it to provide a shit slinging match. I would just like to know the cause of these accidents, especially the third one, as it's circumstances were not the same as the first 2. Bad fuel was not the reason anyway. For any of them. There is already talk of ghosts walking around one of the tents holding bodies on the first crash site, so we could be in for a long wait..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dag Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 "unexpertish" Did you make that up? JH yep...pure n simple unadulterated thought process..... By the way.....dont use italics again or yousel get a spanking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newtronbom Posted July 28, 2011 Author Share Posted July 28, 2011 Soutpeel. I was well aware of the heli ops for the rigs as I know some guys, who like you, work on them. They all says the pilots are fine. That is though, totally different to a land based operation and far less complicated too - bad weather aside. Pleased that you have a good opinion about the Thai pilots servicing the rigs too. As for places like Phuket not being profitable, there is no reason why a private heli company couldn't charge through the nose and do good business. Plenty of Thais, let alone tourists could afford it and would pay the price. It would be a good thing too for a 2nd reason, as it would serve as a much needed emergency service as well. So it's still not clear to me, why there isn't one. Is it like Dag suggests? A security/control thing? Or is it because more people are like me and would prefer to see the sights from the ground or the water? I know there are some who do like the "heli tour" thing, but are there enough to make it worthwhile? It's a fact of life that we have to accept, that accidents will always happen. Look at the train disaster in Japan last week. Lightning struck a signal, allowing the high speed train to crash into another that had lost power. Odds like that will never stop us flying though and man made reasons caused the 3 crashes in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpinx Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 This thread wuld be hilarious if it was dicussing accidents where people were not killed. One's heart goes out to the families and friends......:jap: 25 years in the drivers seat of many kinds of helicopters and aeroplanes in all kinds of operations and countries tells me that these incidents were an unfortunate culmination of many things. I have lost close friends in similar situations. It is not entirely unheard of for accidents to cluster. An Aussie pilot I know hit a tree during a fire-setting operation and when the replacement helicopter was delivered to him he launched again - and yep - hit the same tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted July 28, 2011 Share Posted July 28, 2011 I think we should all take a moment to remember that Asian equipment husbandry is almost uniformly wank (with notable exceptions to the North East of the continent). What? You don't seriously mean there's a good Korean mechanic do you? I recall this ditty when I was cutting me teeth in the Saudi oil patch in the 70's. "Hi-ho, hi-ham I am a Korean I'll fix your car But it won't get far. Hi ho, hi-ham..." With thanks to the Seven Dwarfs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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