bored 15-25 year old idiots + police ( authority ) = cheap caberet........most places on the planet.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/police...l?oneclick=true

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/feb2004/redf-f17.shtml

etc...etc

maybe those examples are not to the same scale as france - but to solve a problem you must start from the basic principles easier to recognise at smaller scales.

Yep

West of Sydney is a war zone.

Large groups sons of the hard working immigrant , dont work,parents pay them anyway plus dole.

All have cars....major problems coming.

bored 15-25 year old idiots + police ( authority ) = cheap caberet........most places on the planet.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/police...l?oneclick=true

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/feb2004/redf-f17.shtml

etc...etc

maybe those examples are not to the same scale as france - but to solve a problem you must start from the basic principles easier to recognise at smaller scales.

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Yep

West of Sydney is a war zone.

Large groups sons of the hard working immigrant ,  dont work,parents pay them anyway plus dole.

All have cars....major problems coming.

Especially Mount Victoria and Perth.

bored 15-25 year old idiots + police ( authority ) = cheap caberet........most places on the planet.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/police...l?oneclick=true

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/feb2004/redf-f17.shtml

etc...etc

maybe those examples are not to the same scale as france - but to solve a problem you must start from the basic principles easier to recognise at smaller scales.

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Absolutely.

Finally someone with a clue

Those who used "no-violence" were only listened because they were a contrast to the "violent" ones. Without the "violent" ones, nobody would have given a shit to the "non-violent" ones. These kind of things are much more effective when they are contrasting pairs.

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So you are saying that violence is justified then ?

If you have a disagreement with somebody (person/organization/government) , or think you are being discriminated against, then it is alright to resort to violence ?

Well, watch out Baht Bus mafia, and other places that use a double-pricing system for foreigners ! I'm sure there are a lot of people here that feel discriminated against in one way or another.

Maybe they should all resort to violence as well, as it sounds like trying to resolve matters peacefully won't be worth the time or effort (according to some).

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Ok let's say the government has decided to take away your rights of gun ownership ? what do you do ? there are thousands like you and you guys decide to take it to the streets. The government won't move no matter how long you will protest. How long would it take for our "peace loving" gun owners to start shooting at cops or at cars going by ?

As I said before time to shoot dead any looter, property destroyer, or thug assaulting people. The first one shot - this will all stop. I'd round up all the non-citizens and deport the lot of them.

Only in France could this occur that the govt lets these lot run rabid.

or thug assaulting people.

just check first he is not wearing the uniform of the national police........

Biggest loser in all this:

All those high school class "Spring in Paris" trip companies, who must be experiencing record "I want my deposit back!" calls right now.

Australian terrorism fears intensify

09.11.05

By Greg Ansley

CANBERRA - The arrest of a radical Muslim cleric on terrorism charges yesterday and the planned deportation of another have heightened fears of deadly homegrown fundamentalist cells prepared to wage war on Australia.

Melbourne cleric Abdul Nacer Benbrika, also known as Abu Bakir, who has publicly supported Osama bin Laden, was yesterday accused of being the spiritual leader of an alleged terror group planning attacks on Sydney and Melbourne.

On Monday a court refused to quash a deportation order against Iranian-born Sheik Mansour Lehaei, identified by intelligence officials as a threat to national security.

Both were among an outspoken group who have preached jihad against the West, backed terror acts abroad, and in some cases preached that Islam cannot exist side-by-side with a secular Australian state.

The radicals have been condemned by Prime Minister John Howard and moderate Muslim leaders, who set up a new Muslim Reference Group after a summit in Canberra to address concerns about possible terror cells.

A key recommendation of that summit was oversight of independent Muslim schools to head off possible indoctrination of the young with militant fundamentalism.

The leaders of Australia's more than 280,000 Muslims have consistently condemned terrorism both home and abroad and have been working to reduce tensions that have followed major international outrages.

But fears of homegrown terror have increased since the London bombings, carried out by British-born Muslims, and repeated warnings by intelligence agencies that terror cells were active in Australia.

The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation's most recent annual report warned that it continued to identify Australians who had undergone terrorist training, and had identified Australians linked to extremists abroad.

In August, federal police said they were tracking as many as 60 known terrorists within the country.

This followed allegations that radical convert Jack Roche was planning to to attack Israeli interests in Australia, and alleged French terrorist Willy Brigitte and associates in Sydney were preparing attacks.

ASIO warned that Islamic extremists in Australia tended to follow a Salafist interpretation of Islam.

This preaches hostility and isolation towards the broader Australian society, and towards countries perceived to be attacking Islam - as Australia was seen to be in Iraq.

"Despite a strong cultural sense of community, some individuals choose to lean heavily on their perceptions of conflict as a battle between Muslims and infidels," ASIO said.

"This perception engenders a sense of isolation and rejection which is difficult for moderate elements in the Australian Muslim community to counteract - and the moderates are perceived to be part of the problem by the extremists."

Abu Bakir has long been considered one of Australia's most outspoken radicals.

He raised deep anger in August after describing Osama bin Laden as a great man who had not been proven to have been involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States.

Abu Bakir, who told The Australian he had been kidnapped and beaten by two carloads of thugs after the London bombings, also said Muslims lived in a state of conflict between secular and Islamic law.

He told ABC that he supported Muslims going to Pakistan for jihad training. "Jihad is part of my religion," he said. "What you have to understand is that anyone who fights on behalf of Allah, when he dies, the first drop of blood that comes out, all his sins will be forgiven."

He also told ABC radio: "My religion doesn't tolerate other religion ... The only law to spread - here or anywhere - has to be Islam."

Sheik Leghaei has long been of interest to ASIO, reportedly being watched from the time of his arrival in Australia more than a decade ago.

ASIO twice said he was a national security threat, and questioned him on links to Iran and terror groups.

Agenst found an undeclared US$10,000 ($15,000) in his luggage on his return from a trip to his homeland - a donation from the Islamic Propagation Organisation in Iran to Melbourne's Grand Prophet Centre.

Agents also found a notebook containing a handwritten translation of a book called Jihad and Islam .

The book identified three jihad targets: Infidels who did not accept the Koran as the book of heaven; those who took up arms against the Prophet; and those in Islamic states who refuse to pay tribute to Muslims.

"It is a Muslim's basic duty to wipe out the above classes," the translation said.

Sheik Leghaei's deportation order was confirmed in the Federal Court after ASIO's assessment of his risk to national security was upheld.

I think the rioting in Paris has less to do with radical Islam than it does with the spread of entitlement cultures. The social walfare model - cradle to grave gravy train is derailed.

I think the rioting in Paris has less to do with radical Islam than it does with the spread of entitlement cultures.  The social walfare model - cradle to grave gravy train is derailed.

Yep, that and a few nutters out there that can convince the handout brigade that they're hard done by.

cv

Mid-East press mull France riots 

 

Newspapers in the Middle East and Turkey blame the French government's immigration policy for the ongoing riots sweeping across French areas with a high concentration of ethnic minorities.

Some rioters are thought to be of North African origin, and one Algerian commentator accuses Paris of failing to address the issue of "ethnic ghettos". A Turkish writer points to a lack of equality for people "with Muslim roots".

Iranian papers warn that the violence could spread to other Western countries if they fail to tackle what is perceived as widespread discrimination.

Commentary by Abdul Bari Atwan in London-based Quds al-Arabi

The growing violence in France should be a warning to all European governments. It is an expected outcome of policies that look down on foreigners and deal with them as if they were a terrorist time bomb.

Commentary by Salim Tamani in Algeria's L'Expression

The problem of suburbs becoming real ethnic ghettos was not adequately addressed. Indeed, the problem of political integration talked about by successive French governments was not dealt with on the ground. This explosion of violence is testimony to the existence of a deep-rooted malaise, requiring an urgent remedy to prevent riots becoming systemic in future.

Commentary by Ismet Berkan in Turkey's Radikal

The basic reason for the immigrant riots is the fact that the countries which invited in foreign workers to promote their own economic development have been unable or unwilling to find a solution to the problem of racism. France is a country where politicians are not connected with marginal political parties but with the parties at the centre which compete in engaging in xenophobia.

Commentary by Fehmi Koru in Turkey's Yeni Safak

The French system, which promises 'equality, freedom and justice' to every citizen, does not act at all equally and fairly towards those with 'Muslim' roots who form part of its society. This shows itself mostly in religion-based separatist practices. For example, the education system uses simplistic excuses to practice exclusion on the basis of religion.

Iran's Hamshahri

Following recent riots in France, social experts opined that these incidents could have been predicted. Discrimination in France - particularly pressures over immigrants and Muslims - have fanned the flames of discrimination while Jews enjoy total freedom in the country. Such incidents are expected in other Western countries which are based on secular values.

Iran's Jomhuri-ye Eslami

Discrimination is roaring in America, England and Canada, and many other Western countries are suffering from this disease. Although huge attempts are made to hide it, this abscess pops up regularly somewhere in the world and shows the dirtiness that exists deep inside those countries.

Iran News

Cracking down will not solve the problem. The solution lies in recognising the immigrants' civil and individual rights.

Early skirmish in the Eurabian civil warBy Mark Steyn

(Filed: 08/11/2005)

According to its Office du Tourisme, the big event in Evreux this past weekend was supposed to be the annual fête de la pomme, du cidre et du fromage at the Place de la Mairie. Instead, in this charmingly smouldering cathedral town in Normandy, a shopping mall, a post office, two schools, upwards of 50 vehicles and, oh yes, the police station were destroyed by - what's the word? - "youths".

Over at the Place de la Mairie, M le Maire himself, Jean-Louis Debré, seemed affronted by the very idea that un soupçon de carnage should be allowed to distract from the cheese-tasting. "A hundred people have smashed everything and strewn desolation," he told reporters. "Well, they don't form part of our universe."

Maybe not, but unfortunately you form part of theirs.

Mr Debré, a close pal of President Chirac's, was a little off on the numbers. There were an estimated 200 "youths" rampaging through Evreux. With baseball bats. They injured, among others, a dozen firemen. "To those responsible for the violence, I want to say: Be serious!" Mr Debré told France Info radio. "If you want to live in a fairer, more fraternal society, this is not how to go about it."

Oh, dear. Who's not "being serious" here? In Normandy, it's not just the cheese that's soft and runny. Granted that France's over-regulated sclerotic economy profoundly obstructs the social mobility of immigrants, even Mr Debris - whoops, sorry - even Mr Debré cannot be so out of touch as to think "seriously" that the rioters are rioting for "a fairer, more fraternal society". But maybe he does. The political class and the media seem to serve as mutual reinforcers of their obsolete illusions. Or as the Washington Post's headline put it: "Rage of French youth is a fight for recognition".

Actually, they're very easy to "recognise": just look out the window, they're the ones torching your Renault 5. I'd wager the "French" "youth" find that headline as hilarious as the Jets in West Side Story half a century ago, when they taunted Officer Krupke with "society's" attempts to "understand" them: we're depraved on account of we're deprived. Perhaps some enterprising Paris impresario will mount a production of West Eid Story with choreographed gangs of North African Muslims sashaying through the Place de la Republique, incinerating as they go.

In fact, "rage" seems the least of it: it's the "glee" and "contempt" you're struck by. And "rage" in the sense of spontaneous anger is a very slapdash characterisation of what, after two weeks, is looking like a rather shrewd and disciplined campaign. This business of car burning, for example. In Iraq, the "insurgents" quickly got the hang of setting some second-hand Nissan alight at just the right moment so that its plume of smoke could be conveniently filmed from the press hotel balcony in time for NBC's Today show and Good Morning, America. For a while, every time you switched on the television in America, there'd be some doom'n'gloom anchor yakking away in front of a live scene of a blazing Honda Civic - as reassuring in its familiarity as that local station somewhere or other in North America (Thunder Bay, I think) that used to show a roaring fireplace as its test card all night. What the Aussie pundit Tim Blair calls the nightly Paris car-B-Q looks great on television, but without being sufficiently murderous to provoke the state into forcefully putting down the insurgency.

Indeed, it's an almost perfect tactic if your aim is to have the entire French establishment dithering in grievance-addressing mode until you've extracted as much political advantage as you can. Look at it this way: after two weeks, whose prestige has been more enhanced? The rioters? Or Mayor Debré, President Chirac and Prime Minister de Villepin? On every front these past two weeks, the French state has been tested and communicated only weakness.

As to the "French" "youth", a reader in Antibes cautions me against characterising the disaffected as "Islamist". "Look at the pictures of the youths," he advises. "They look like LA gangsters, not beturbaned prophet-monkeys."

Leaving aside what I'm told are more than a few cries of "Allahu Akhbar!" on the streets, my correspondent is correct. But that's the point. The first country formally to embrace "multiculturalism" - to the extent of giving it a cabinet post - was Canada, where it was sold as a form of benign cultural cross-pollination: the best of all worlds. But just as often it gives us the worst of all worlds. More than three years ago, I wrote about the "tournante" or "take your turn" - the gang rape that's become an adolescent rite of passage in the Muslim quarters of French cities - and similar phenomena throughout the West: "Multiculturalism means that the worst attributes of Muslim culture - the subjugation of women - combine with the worst attributes of Western culture - licence and self-gratification. Tattooed, pierced Pakistani skinhead gangs swaggering down the streets of northern England areas are as much a product of multiculturalism as the turban-wearing Sikh Mountie in the vice-regal escort." Islamofascism itself is what it says: a fusion of Islamic identity with old-school European totalitarianism. But, whether in turbans or gangsta threads, just as Communism was in its day, so Islam is today's ideology of choice for the world's disaffected.

Some of us believe this is an early skirmish in the Eurabian civil war. If the insurgents emerge emboldened, what next? In five years' time, there will be even more of them, and even less resolve on the part of the French state. That, in turn, is likely to accelerate the demographic decline. Europe could face a continent-wide version of the "white flight" phenomenon seen in crime-ridden American cities during the 1970s, as Danes and Dutch scram to America, Australia or anywhere else that will have them.

As to where Britain falls in this grim scenario, I noticed a few months ago that Telegraph readers had started closing their gloomier missives to me with the words, "Fortunately I won't live to see it" - a sign-off now so routine in my mailbag I assumed it was the British version of "Have a nice day". But that's a false consolation. As France this past fortnight reminds us, the changes in Europe are happening far faster than most people thought. That's the problem: unless you're planning on croaking imminently, you will live to see it.

Iran News

Cracking down will not solve the problem. The solution lies in recognising the immigrants' civil and individual rights.

That must be why three of my friends are refugees from Iran. They couldn't deal with all the "civil rights" over there. One of them committed the terrible crime of being raped. How could she do such a thing?

cv

I wonder how soon scenes like this will spread to other parts of Europe.

With the continual declining native European birthrate and the rising middle Eastern imigrant population........It's really not going to be a pretty picture over there in a couple of decades...

I really don't see a huge future influx of Native European immigrants to Thailand and elseware though.... As things stand now,It looks like they will gradually be absorbed and replaced demographically and population wise, eventually, if history is any guide...

I wonder how soon scenes like this will spread to other parts of Europe.

With the continual declining native European birthrate and the rising middle Eastern imigrant population........It's really not going to be a pretty picture over there in a couple of decades...

I really don't see a huge future influx of Native European immigrants to Thailand and elseware though.... As things stand now,It looks like they will gradually be absorbed and replaced demographically and population wise, eventually, if history is any guide...

Israeli Jews were facing it in 15 years. Arabs and non-Jews would outnumber Jews. If Israel wishes to remain a democracy they will have to give up portions of the occupied territories so the non-Jewish population will be reduced inside their territorial boundaries. Relinquishing the Gaza Strip has allowed for more time. It makes me wonder if the Palestinians were ever sincere in their negotiations for peace. All they have to do is wait and the numbers would tip in their favor.

Sorry off topic.

Cracking down will not solve the problem.

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Au contraire mon ami ....

Cracking down solves the problem for the general population. It restores civil order which benefits everyone.

The solution lies in recognising the immigrants' civil and individual rights.

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Fair enough. I'm a firm believer that people who need a hand-up should get one.

But there is a flip side to that coin.

When the immigrants become citizens, they take an oath to obey the laws of the land, to study and work, and to generally be good citizens of their newly adopted homeland.

That piece of the equation does not include thug-mentality law-breaking and participation in creating unrest and anarchy.

That piece of the equation doesn't include a lifelong middle-class welfare handout to allow people a free ride to their desired lifestyle.

hey spee , dont shoot the messenger !!!

i was quoting from an article , those are not my views

if it was up to me ...... i would hit them hard.

Problem is these lads don't realize where they could be - ie Algeria. I suspect if you gave them the option of staying in france or going back to Algeria that the answer would be.....

hey spee , dont shoot the messenger !!!

i was quoting from an article , those are not my  views

if it was up to me ...... i would hit them hard.

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Apologies .... thought those were your words. Cheers!

Well, it has long been established that there is a significant jihadist presence among French Muslims. Recently six Muslims in Paris were arrested for recruiting for the jihad in Iraq.

FranceUnibodyCount

Let’s pretend we don't see it, and it might disappear...

FranceUnibodyCount 

Let’s pretend we don't see it, and it might disappear...

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Well, at least it's (mostly) cars that have suffered. Oh, and a few churches, schools and hospitals. Nothing like attacking targets that hurt the community the most eh ?

I disagree with the cartoon because I come from a country that is multicultural and has little if any non-hockey related riots, but thats not the point of the post.

I just got a laugh about Boon posting a cartoon decrying France's multiculturalism. I'd have figured he'd be the last one advocating that anyone "Be more French"

cv

I disagree with the cartoon because I come from a country that is multicultural....

By that, do you mean your own Frenchies in Quebec?

I disagree with the cartoon because I come from a country that is multicultural....

By that, do you mean your own Frenchies in Quebec?

There's francaphones everywhere. Also a million muslims, half a million jews, a couple million asians, loads of ukrainians, poles, aboriginals, africans, hispanics, and so on, and so on...

The ones in Quebec are are known as Quebecois

I disagree with the cartoon because I come from a country that is multicultural....

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By that, do you mean your own Frenchies in Quebec?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, the Quebecois speak French, and copy the French in some ways, but the ones I know don't consider themselves "French".

They had their own little problems back in the late 70's, and then lost a close vote when they had a referendum on separation in '95. At least they didn't go on a rampage and try to burn out any non-Quebecois/French inhabitants (though they did blame their referendum loss on the "Money and Immigrant" vote, the people that wanted to stay in Canada).

Overall, I don't think Canada does a very good job at integrating immigrants into "our" society. The government seems perfectly content to allow who ever comes to Canada to maintain their lifestyles the same as they were in their home country. They don't have to learn either of the offical languages, not even to pass a driving test ! (They can bring an interpreter at their own expense, lots of stories about that). These immigrants, from all over the world, tend to clump together in close-knit communities and carry on life as though they never left home.

That is why the Tamil Tigers have no problem extorting money from Sri Lankan immigrants in Toronto (immigrants that don't have to speak English/French, know nothing about Canada, and assume that the police are just as bad as they are in Sri Lanka. Therefore this kind of extortion for the most part goes unreported). Similar problems exist in other ethnic communities.

Haitian drug gangs fight with east-Indian drug gangs that fight with "Persian" drig gangs that fight with Chinese and Vietnamese drug gangs.

What I have noticed though, is that the descendants of the original immigrants seems to blend in to society much better. I've played hockey on teams where I was the only one that wasn't Chinese-Canadian. I watched Lacrosse games between teams of kids from various backgrounds (Indo-Canadian, Native Indian, Caucasians, ect).

I know some Chinese-Canadian descendants that can't read or write Chinese, and if you listen to them speak (without seeing them) you wouldn't know they came from immigrant families.

One of my best friends in Canada is (was) a Vietnamese boat-person. He came over with his family when he was 6. If you didn't notice his asian features, you'd never know he was an immigrant.

In the last unit I was posted to in Canada, over 60% of the personnel were immigrants, or descended from immigrants. We had people from India, China, Vietnam, the Caribean, Croatia and a few other places.

As far as religions, some people were Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist or Christian. Yet we all managed to work, socialize and party together without any kind of problems.

It was a great feeling seeing all those people from all those different backgrounds, at work and after work, getting along with no hint of racial or religious tension.

This isn't to say that there are no problems with the descendants of immigrants. Some of them get into trouble (commit crimes) the same as the Caucasians do.

Funny thing I have noticed though. When you look at all the junkies scattered around the lower east side of Vancouver, you notice that almost everyone of them is either white (Caucasian) or Native Indian.

I don't think I've ever seen a Asian, East-Indian, Black or Middle-Eastern junkie anywhere on Skid-Row (in Vancouver).

Well written reply. I can vouch for the last point. Most of the street people in Victoria are white kids from well integrated families who are at least 2nd or 3rd generation Canadians.

I do find it a little scarey though that you can take your driver's test in any one of 15 languages in BC, but in the best case scenerio the road signs, including the ones warning of dead ends and steep cliffs, are only in english, and maybe french. In parts of Surrey they have signs in Punjabi, but I think thats going too far. If they won't learn the language (either one), how are they supposed to learn the laws?

Multiculturalism in the sense of keeping the seperate cultures rich and vibrant is a great thing here, but for cryin` out loud they gotta give a little too. At least learn the basics of the language.

Must say, we need more Turks though.... haven't had a decent kebab in ages.

cv

Ahhh, Victoria. One of the last bastions of Royalists in the country.

Home of the newly wed and nearly dead.

Where 80 year old grannies drive while looking through the steering wheel, not over top of it.

Where 80 year old grand-dads drive with big wool hats pulled down to their noses.

Where countless drivers get into accidents on sunny days, gawking at newly wed girls dressed in their short skirts.

Where countless accidents occur every winter when the slightest amount of snow hits the ground.

Where you have to drive for half an hour (or more) to get to the ferry terminal, to take an hour and a half ferry ride to to another ferry terminal, where you still have at least another half hour drive (or more) to get to Vancouver, which is a whole 22 miles from Victoria across the water (as the crow flies). Sheesh.

Nice scenery though !