American-led Peace Movements

[pepe]

Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

These are words from Galgacus, a caledonian hero, talking about the excess of the Roman empire. It means " where they make a desert, they say that they bring peace". Think about it.

[Georgie-Porgie]

The same might be said by your terrorist friends after they drop a dirty bomb on a city?

[Axel]

Well great reading from all of you, so far. I certainly do not get involved with this GWB, as long as he stays where he belongs, inside the USA. He is the President and deserves respect. I saw him yesterday, more or less the whole day on CNN. Great speaker with his State of the Union-thing. Loved his beady eyes and his toothless smile.

No, I really like this fellow and told him so in July 2003, already:

Dear Mr. President,

these days newspapers and -services are full of criticism. Therefore I would like to tell you,

I fully agree to your style of governing.

I mean what do these people want, you are the President of the United States of America, god's own country, which was

given to you by your father, OK, may be with a little bit of help by your brother Jeb in Florida, which I cannot comment nor hold against you. However, for sure you can do whatever goddamn you want and the whole world should understand this by now.

I was watching your own war against these people in Iraq on CNN. Well they did not show anything else so I had to watch it.

But it was fascinating how you and your generals clobbered the Iraqis. Than your glorious victory in Baghdad when you toppled this Saddam, or at least his monument. This was really democratic history in making. I also saw the great support of the Iraqi people that day, at least 30 of them I counted on the square.

And than you went after the sons of this Saddam. Brilliant!!! It took only 200 soldiers of your 101st airborne division, a few helicopters and missiles and within a couple of hours you had them clobbered and killed. As a bonus you got a 14 year-old grandson of this Saddam. Never mind, he most probably was a future terrorist and perhaps he was hiding some weapons of mass destruction and now will never be able to tell anybody about the hiding place. Very clever of you!

Now you only have to go after Saddam himself. I wish you find him and than clobber him. Don't let your generals make the same mistake as with this Osama-fellow and let him escape. But don't care what the newspapers say. CNN, I think, will support you.

But I would not kill him, send him to Guantanamo where you can clobber him every day. Maybe together with the other guy who told you the hiding place of the two sons and the grandson. So you can save 30 million dollars. And never mind, they are just rug heads.

The money you can spend for re-construction of the Iraq. This is something you have to pay because some goddamn lawyers will say you caused the expenses and are liable for it. Don't fight with lawyers!

Guantanamo, by the way is one more reason to admire you. This place is so outside of the legal system, that nobody can blame you for whatever happens there, not even a lawyer. Very cleverly done. Same as your refusing to accept the international court in Den Hague or somewhere. I mean this would be something, your enemies indicting you there for your rightfully clobbering the Iraqi rug heads. Do not accept such nonsense, you are the president of the mightiest nation in the world and have any right to clobber whomever you want to clobber. Your enemies come all from small countries and have nothing to say. Most of them wear rugs on their heads or bed-cloth or something.

Now, let your generals clean up the Iraq and teach them democracy. For you it is time to move on. Get this Taylor out of Liberia and clobber his people. I mean they are not colored American citizen, they are just Africans whom to clobber is your god given right.

Do not forget Korea. They have some bombs up in the north. I do not know where this exactly is, but I hear they are eating dogs. Just tell this to your ASPCA (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and you have full support from millions of your people to clobber these Koreans.

It should not take you too long to clean up this land and you can move on to clobber more peoples. There are so many in Asia, which is nearby to Korea, who are not with you. Teach them what you mean when you say: IF YOU ARE NOT FOR US YOU ARE AGAINST US. A brilliant word for which I admire you, so subtle and clever. It sent a clear message and you can clobber whoever is against you!

On the way home, make a stop-over in Europe, there still are some nests of peoples who are not for you. Clobber them.

Start in Hamburg. I think it is in Germany, not so far away from Poland, where I saw you recently on CNN, making a very nice speech. Anyway, you can find it on a map of old Europe. After all, in this Hamburg lived many of these other rug heads who planned for 9/11. There must be a terrorist-nest. Clobber the Germans who housed them, I am sure they will give you more information. This should not take long. On the way back go to France, tell your generals, they have to make a sharp right turn around Dusseldorf to go to Paris. There is this Chirac. He is not for you, teach him a lesson, clobber him and his people and you will make more friends who are not against you. The French are easy to change once they are clobbered.

Than, just across a small ocean there is London. Your good friend Tony Blair lives there. He has problems with some of his enemies.

A few hundred of your Air Borne 101 will do. Sent them by ferry boat. I think the fare is a few pounds or so. This is English money, don't pay in the currency of old Europe, which is called Euro.

The rest of the 101st Airborne swiftly dispatch to Israel. I hear their Mr. Sharon built a wall somewhere against other rug-heads. This of course is not democratic. Tell him "MR. SHARON TEAR THIS WALL DOWN!" A sentence like this will make sure you will be elected next time, which I hear is coming very soon. If he does not listen to the president of the US of A, CLOBBER HIM. The 101st Air borne can do!

Dear Mr. President, I just wanted to tell you, how much I admire you and give you my support. Send your armies out and clobber the peoples who are against you. I SUPPORT YOU.

Sincerely

Axel

[pepe]

The same might be said by your terrorist friends after they drop a dirty bomb on a city?

No. At least the terrorists are not hypocrites, they don't claim to bring peace.

[Georgie-Porgie]

One more bit of praise for the Terrorists. At least no one can call you a hypocrite in that regard.

[pepe]

The same might be said by your terrorist friends after they drop a dirty bomb on a city?

Why do you call them "my friends" ?

It 's not because I'm agaisnt Bush that I' m with the terrorists.

Can you explain your childish comment, please ?

[pepe]

Well great reading from all of you, so far. I certainly do not get involved with this GWB, as long as he stays where he belongs, inside the USA. He is the President and deserves respect. I saw him yesterday, more or less the whole day on CNN. Great speaker with his State of the Union-thing. Loved his beady eyes and his toothless smile.

No, I really like this fellow and told him so in July 2003, already:

Dear Mr. President,

these days newspapers and -services are full of criticism. Therefore I would like to tell you,

I fully agree to your style of governing.

I mean what do these people want, you are the President of the United States of America, god's own country, which was

given to you by your father, OK, may be with a little bit of help by your brother Jeb in Florida, which I cannot comment nor hold against you. However, for sure you can do whatever goddamn you want and the whole world should understand this by now.

I was watching your own war against these people in Iraq on CNN. Well they did not show anything else so I had to watch it.

But it was fascinating how you and your generals clobbered the Iraqis. Than your glorious victory in Baghdad when you toppled this Saddam, or at least his monument. This was really democratic history in making. I also saw the great support of the Iraqi people that day, at least 30 of them I counted on the square.

And than you went after the sons of this Saddam. Brilliant!!! It took only 200 soldiers of your 101st airborne division, a few helicopters and missiles and within a couple of hours you had them clobbered and killed. As a bonus you got a 14 year-old grandson of this Saddam. Never mind, he most probably was a future terrorist and perhaps he was hiding some weapons of mass destruction and now will never be able to tell anybody about the hiding place. Very clever of you!

Now you only have to go after Saddam himself. I wish you find him and than clobber him. Don't let your generals make the same mistake as with this Osama-fellow and let him escape. But don't care what the newspapers say. CNN, I think, will support you.

But I would not kill him, send him to Guantanamo where you can clobber him every day. Maybe together with the other guy who told you the hiding place of the two sons and the grandson. So you can save 30 million dollars. And never mind, they are just rug heads.

The money you can spend for re-construction of the Iraq. This is something you have to pay because some goddamn lawyers will say you caused the expenses and are liable for it. Don't fight with lawyers!

Guantanamo, by the way is one more reason to admire you. This place is so outside of the legal system, that nobody can blame you for whatever happens there, not even a lawyer. Very cleverly done. Same as your refusing to accept the international court in Den Hague or somewhere. I mean this would be something, your enemies indicting you there for your rightfully clobbering the Iraqi rug heads. Do not accept such nonsense, you are the president of the mightiest nation in the world and have any right to clobber whomever you want to clobber. Your enemies come all from small countries and have nothing to say. Most of them wear rugs on their heads or bed-cloth or something.

Now, let your generals clean up the Iraq and teach them democracy. For you it is time to move on. Get this Taylor out of Liberia and clobber his people. I mean they are not colored American citizen, they are just Africans whom to clobber is your god given right.

Do not forget Korea. They have some bombs up in the north. I do not know where this exactly is, but I hear they are eating dogs. Just tell this to your ASPCA (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and you have full support from millions of your people to clobber these Koreans.

It should not take you too long to clean up this land and you can move on to clobber more peoples. There are so many in Asia, which is nearby to Korea, who are not with you. Teach them what you mean when you say: IF YOU ARE NOT FOR US YOU ARE AGAINST US. A brilliant word for which I admire you, so subtle and clever. It sent a clear message and you can clobber whoever is against you!

On the way home, make a stop-over in Europe, there still are some nests of peoples who are not for you. Clobber them.

Start in Hamburg. I think it is in Germany, not so far away from Poland, where I saw you recently on CNN, making a very nice speech. Anyway, you can find it on a map of old Europe. After all, in this Hamburg lived many of these other rug heads who planned for 9/11. There must be a terrorist-nest. Clobber the Germans who housed them, I am sure they will give you more information. This should not take long. On the way back go to France, tell your generals, they have to make a sharp right turn around Dusseldorf to go to Paris. There is this Chirac. He is not for you, teach him a lesson, clobber him and his people and you will make more friends who are not against you. The French are easy to change once they are clobbered.

Than, just across a small ocean there is London. Your good friend Tony Blair lives there. He has problems with some of his enemies.

A few hundred of your Air Borne 101 will do. Sent them by ferry boat. I think the fare is a few pounds or so. This is English money, don't pay in the currency of old Europe, which is called Euro.

The rest of the 101st Airborne swiftly dispatch to Israel. I hear their Mr. Sharon built a wall somewhere against other rug-heads. This of course is not democratic. Tell him "MR. SHARON TEAR THIS WALL DOWN!" A sentence like this will make sure you will be elected next time, which I hear is coming very soon. If he does not listen to the president of the US of A, CLOBBER HIM. The 101st Air borne can do!

Dear Mr. President, I just wanted to tell you, how much I admire you and give you my support. Send your armies out and clobber the peoples who are against you. I SUPPORT YOU.

Sincerely

Axel

Well great reading from all of you, so far. I certainly do not get involved with this GWB, as long as he stays where he belongs, inside the USA. He is the President and deserves respect. I saw him yesterday, more or less the whole day on CNN. Great speaker with his State of the Union-thing. Loved his beady eyes and his toothless smile.

No, I really like this fellow and told him so in July 2003, already:

Dear Mr. President,

these days newspapers and -services are full of criticism. Therefore I would like to tell you,

I fully agree to your style of governing.

I mean what do these people want, you are the President of the United States of America, god's own country, which was

given to you by your father, OK, may be with a little bit of help by your brother Jeb in Florida, which I cannot comment nor hold against you. However, for sure you can do whatever goddamn you want and the whole world should understand this by now.

I was watching your own war against these people in Iraq on CNN. Well they did not show anything else so I had to watch it.

But it was fascinating how you and your generals clobbered the Iraqis. Than your glorious victory in Baghdad when you toppled this Saddam, or at least his monument. This was really democratic history in making. I also saw the great support of the Iraqi people that day, at least 30 of them I counted on the square.

And than you went after the sons of this Saddam. Brilliant!!! It took only 200 soldiers of your 101st airborne division, a few helicopters and missiles and within a couple of hours you had them clobbered and killed. As a bonus you got a 14 year-old grandson of this Saddam. Never mind, he most probably was a future terrorist and perhaps he was hiding some weapons of mass destruction and now will never be able to tell anybody about the hiding place. Very clever of you!

Now you only have to go after Saddam himself. I wish you find him and than clobber him. Don't let your generals make the same mistake as with this Osama-fellow and let him escape. But don't care what the newspapers say. CNN, I think, will support you.

But I would not kill him, send him to Guantanamo where you can clobber him every day. Maybe together with the other guy who told you the hiding place of the two sons and the grandson. So you can save 30 million dollars. And never mind, they are just rug heads.

The money you can spend for re-construction of the Iraq. This is something you have to pay because some goddamn lawyers will say you caused the expenses and are liable for it. Don't fight with lawyers!

Guantanamo, by the way is one more reason to admire you. This place is so outside of the legal system, that nobody can blame you for whatever happens there, not even a lawyer. Very cleverly done. Same as your refusing to accept the international court in Den Hague or somewhere. I mean this would be something, your enemies indicting you there for your rightfully clobbering the Iraqi rug heads. Do not accept such nonsense, you are the president of the mightiest nation in the world and have any right to clobber whomever you want to clobber. Your enemies come all from small countries and have nothing to say. Most of them wear rugs on their heads or bed-cloth or something.

Now, let your generals clean up the Iraq and teach them democracy. For you it is time to move on. Get this Taylor out of Liberia and clobber his people. I mean they are not colored American citizen, they are just Africans whom to clobber is your god given right.

Do not forget Korea. They have some bombs up in the north. I do not know where this exactly is, but I hear they are eating dogs. Just tell this to your ASPCA (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and you have full support from millions of your people to clobber these Koreans.

It should not take you too long to clean up this land and you can move on to clobber more peoples. There are so many in Asia, which is nearby to Korea, who are not with you. Teach them what you mean when you say: IF YOU ARE NOT FOR US YOU ARE AGAINST US. A brilliant word for which I admire you, so subtle and clever. It sent a clear message and you can clobber whoever is against you!

On the way home, make a stop-over in Europe, there still are some nests of peoples who are not for you. Clobber them.

Start in Hamburg. I think it is in Germany, not so far away from Poland, where I saw you recently on CNN, making a very nice speech. Anyway, you can find it on a map of old Europe. After all, in this Hamburg lived many of these other rug heads who planned for 9/11. There must be a terrorist-nest. Clobber the Germans who housed them, I am sure they will give you more information. This should not take long. On the way back go to France, tell your generals, they have to make a sharp right turn around Dusseldorf to go to Paris. There is this Chirac. He is not for you, teach him a lesson, clobber him and his people and you will make more friends who are not against you. The French are easy to change once they are clobbered. 

Than, just across a small ocean there is London. Your good friend Tony Blair lives there. He has problems with some of his enemies.

A few hundred of your Air Borne 101 will do. Sent them by ferry boat. I think the fare is a few pounds or so. This is English money, don't pay in the currency of old Europe, which is called Euro.

The rest of the 101st Airborne swiftly dispatch to Israel. I hear their Mr. Sharon built a wall somewhere against other rug-heads. This of course is not democratic. Tell him "MR. SHARON TEAR THIS WALL DOWN!" A sentence like this will make sure you will be elected next time, which I hear is coming very soon. If he does not listen to the president of the US of A, CLOBBER HIM. The 101st Air borne can do!

Dear Mr. President, I just wanted to tell you, how much I admire you and give you my support. Send your armies out and clobber the peoples who are against you. I SUPPORT YOU.

Sincerely

Axel

Well great reading from all of you, so far. I certainly do not get involved with this GWB, as long as he stays where he belongs, inside the USA. He is the President and deserves respect. I saw him yesterday, more or less the whole day on CNN. Great speaker with his State of the Union-thing. Loved his beady eyes and his toothless smile.

No, I really like this fellow and told him so in July 2003, already:

Dear Mr. President,

these days newspapers and -services are full of criticism. Therefore I would like to tell you,

I fully agree to your style of governing.

I mean what do these people want, you are the President of the United States of America, god's own country, which was

given to you by your father, OK, may be with a little bit of help by your brother Jeb in Florida, which I cannot comment nor hold against you. However, for sure you can do whatever goddamn you want and the whole world should understand this by now.

I was watching your own war against these people in Iraq on CNN. Well they did not show anything else so I had to watch it.

But it was fascinating how you and your generals clobbered the Iraqis. Than your glorious victory in Baghdad when you toppled this Saddam, or at least his monument. This was really democratic history in making. I also saw the great support of the Iraqi people that day, at least 30 of them I counted on the square.

And than you went after the sons of this Saddam. Brilliant!!! It took only 200 soldiers of your 101st airborne division, a few helicopters and missiles and within a couple of hours you had them clobbered and killed. As a bonus you got a 14 year-old grandson of this Saddam. Never mind, he most probably was a future terrorist and perhaps he was hiding some weapons of mass destruction and now will never be able to tell anybody about the hiding place. Very clever of you!

Now you only have to go after Saddam himself. I wish you find him and than clobber him. Don't let your generals make the same mistake as with this Osama-fellow and let him escape. But don't care what the newspapers say. CNN, I think, will support you.

But I would not kill him, send him to Guantanamo where you can clobber him every day. Maybe together with the other guy who told you the hiding place of the two sons and the grandson. So you can save 30 million dollars. And never mind, they are just rug heads.

The money you can spend for re-construction of the Iraq. This is something you have to pay because some goddamn lawyers will say you caused the expenses and are liable for it. Don't fight with lawyers!

Guantanamo, by the way is one more reason to admire you. This place is so outside of the legal system, that nobody can blame you for whatever happens there, not even a lawyer. Very cleverly done. Same as your refusing to accept the international court in Den Hague or somewhere. I mean this would be something, your enemies indicting you there for your rightfully clobbering the Iraqi rug heads. Do not accept such nonsense, you are the president of the mightiest nation in the world and have any right to clobber whomever you want to clobber. Your enemies come all from small countries and have nothing to say. Most of them wear rugs on their heads or bed-cloth or something.

Now, let your generals clean up the Iraq and teach them democracy. For you it is time to move on. Get this Taylor out of Liberia and clobber his people. I mean they are not colored American citizen, they are just Africans whom to clobber is your god given right.

Do not forget Korea. They have some bombs up in the north. I do not know where this exactly is, but I hear they are eating dogs. Just tell this to your ASPCA (American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and you have full support from millions of your people to clobber these Koreans.

It should not take you too long to clean up this land and you can move on to clobber more peoples. There are so many in Asia, which is nearby to Korea, who are not with you. Teach them what you mean when you say: IF YOU ARE NOT FOR US YOU ARE AGAINST US. A brilliant word for which I admire you, so subtle and clever. It sent a clear message and you can clobber whoever is against you!

On the way home, make a stop-over in Europe, there still are some nests of peoples who are not for you. Clobber them.

Start in Hamburg. I think it is in Germany, not so far away from Poland, where I saw you recently on CNN, making a very nice speech. Anyway, you can find it on a map of old Europe. After all, in this Hamburg lived many of these other rug heads who planned for 9/11. There must be a terrorist-nest. Clobber the Germans who housed them, I am sure they will give you more information. This should not take long. On the way back go to France, tell your generals, they have to make a sharp right turn around Dusseldorf to go to Paris. There is this Chirac. He is not for you, teach him a lesson, clobber him and his people and you will make more friends who are not against you. The French are easy to change once they are clobbered. 

Than, just across a small ocean there is London. Your good friend Tony Blair lives there. He has problems with some of his enemies.

A few hundred of your Air Borne 101 will do. Sent them by ferry boat. I think the fare is a few pounds or so. This is English money, don't pay in the currency of old Europe, which is called Euro.

The rest of the 101st Airborne swiftly dispatch to Israel. I hear their Mr. Sharon built a wall somewhere against other rug-heads. This of course is not democratic. Tell him "MR. SHARON TEAR THIS WALL DOWN!" A sentence like this will make sure you will be elected next time, which I hear is coming very soon. If he does not listen to the president of the US of A, CLOBBER HIM. The 101st Air borne can do!

Dear Mr. President, I just wanted to tell you, how much I admire you and give you my support. Send your armies out and clobber the peoples who are against you. I SUPPORT YOU.

Sincerely

Axel

[pepe]

Sorry I don't know what happened. I didn't mean to reproduce that much Axel's letter. My apologies.

[Georgie-Porgie]

The same might be said by your terrorist friends after they drop a dirty bomb on a city?

Why do you call them "my friends" ?

It 's not because I'm agaisnt Bush that I' m with the terrorists.

Can you explain your childish comment, please ?

In the 80's, France (Paris) was bombed and you know why ?

Because we deserved it.

Do you know why you were targetted on 9-11 ?

Because you also deserved it

So did the Pentagon deserved to be targetted ? Obviously yes

[pepe]

The same might be said by your terrorist friends after they drop a dirty bomb on a city?

Why do you call them "my friends" ?

It 's not because I'm agaisnt Bush that I' m with the terrorists.

Can you explain your childish comment, please ?

In the 80's, France (Paris) was bombed and you know why ?

Because we deserved it.

Do you know why you were targetted on 9-11 ?

Because you also deserved it

So did the Pentagon deserved to be targetted ? Obviously yes

Not one of these quotes means that they are my friends. They just mean that we've been pissing off those guys for centuries. They mean that we are partly to blame, that we are at fault. Consequently, the attacks on Paris and New-York are understandable. If we had stayed at home instead of looting their countries, nothing would have happened. In this sense, we deserve some arse-kicking.

[Georgie-Porgie]

The fact that you say that we are to blame is what makes you their friend. There is no excuse for acts of terror that target innocent civilians. Period.

[adjan jb]

There is no excuse for acts of terror that target innocent civilians. Period.

Wherever the innocent civilians are: New-York, Paris, Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria or Viet-nam.

Whoever the terrorists are: Saudis, Afghans, Palestinians, Israelis, Americans or French.

Agreed !!

[pepe]

The fact that you say that we are to blame is what makes you their friend.

No. It just makes me someone who tries to understand.

And the best way to do so is to take a look at the issues from their point of view.

Nothing comes in black and white. It's impossible that the white guy is always right and the brown one always wrong.

Hi Adjan. Please be kind to Georgie-Porgie. He is prone to heart attacks.

[Axel]

There is no excuse for acts of terror that target innocent civilians. Period.

Wherever the innocent civilians are: New-York, Paris, Iraq, Afghanistan, Algeria or Viet-nam.

Whoever the terrorists are: Saudis, Afghans, Palestinians, Israelis, Americans or French.

Agreed !!

Now this is something to which I fully agree to.

Fight all evil terrorists whithout checking where they come from. If one can catch them, up to the Hague - court, never mind if their nation agreed to that court or not.

[Georgie-Porgie]

In the 80's, France (Paris) was bombed and you know why ?

Because we deserved it.

Do you know why you were targetted on 9-11 ?

Because you also deserved it

So did the Pentagon deserved to be targetted ? Obviously yes

According to you. If someone lets off a dirty bomb in Paris, London or Paris tonight, all the innocent people who die and suffer will "deserve it". That seems pretty black and white to me.

[Boon Mee]

Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.

These are words from Galgacus, a caledonian hero, talking about the excess of the Roman empire. It means " where they make a desert, they say that they bring peace". Think about it.

We ain't makin' no desert over there Pepe 'ol boy - it's already a freaking desert. We just want the oil and give 'em a little democracy in exchange.

Why is this so hard for Lefties to understand???

[Georgie-Porgie]

Thank you for those words of wisdom!

[Membrane]

Ahem... back to the topic of this thread...

Here's an update on a development that is certainly a perk of the U.S. kicking ol' Saddam out of power in Iraq. From Yahoo News:

U.S. Lawmakers Make Landmark Libya Visit

By NIKO PRICE, Associated Press Writer

TRIPOLI, Libya - A U.S. congressional delegation flew to Libya on Sunday aboard a Navy plane, saying it was the first plane flying an American flag to land in Tripoli since Col. Moammar Gadhafi took power in 1969.

The bipartisan delegation arrived as U.S. and British experts were preparing to start dismantling Libya's weapons of mass destruction programs with Gadhafi's blessing.

"I'm here to reinforce the positive steps that have been taken by the leader of Libya," said Rep. Curt Weldon, R-Pa., who stepped off the plane after a 30-hour trip wearing a pin of the American and Libyan flags.

The delegation was received by a senior local official, Abdul-Latif al-Dali, secretary of the Tripoli People's Congress, who chatted with Weldon about the overcast weather.

Though Washington remains wary of Gadhafi's regime, the Libyan leader has sought in recent years to end the international isolation of his desert nation of 5 million people.

Gadhafi's announcement late last year that he would halt development of weapons of mass destruction and open sites to international inspectors marked a major policy shift by the North African leader.

Libya has endured two decades of U.S. economic sanctions, and Gadhafi's decision could lead to improved U.S.-Libyan political and economic relations as well as the deletion of Libya from the State Department's list of terror-sponsoring countries.

"We are here to let the leaders of Libya know that if they continue the steps they are taking, that's (the restoration of diplomatic relations) a very real likelihood," Weldon said. "Once our governments have completed the process of formal relations, there is no limit to what we can accomplish together."

The delegation was expected to meet with Gadhafi and probably tour a Libyan weapons facility before departing Monday for Afghanistan and Iraq (news - web sites).

Solomon Ortiz of Texas, the senior Democrat in the seven-member delegation, said a lot can be gained by friendship between the two countries. "Hopefully soon, you can also come to the United States and visit," he said to al-Dali.

Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., landed earlier Saturday for a separate visit aboard a civilian plane, marking the first visit by an elected U.S. official in nearly four decades.

Lantos, senior Democrat on the House International Relations Committee, planned to meet with Libyan officials and possibly Gadhafi and will report his findings to Congress and to the Bush administration, his office said previously.

The visits signal a growing momentum to repair U.S. relations with Libya, although the administration has taken no action to remove Libya from its list of countries that support terrorism or to lift economic sanctions imposed in 1986.

Weldon, a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, said earlier that the delegation also would visit a university, the Libyan legislative body and "probably" a weapons of mass destruction site.

Prior to Lantos' arrival, an elected American official isn't believed to have visited Libya since before Gadhafi seized power in 1969 as a 27-year-old Army officer.

Gadhafi's son, Seif el-Islam, who helped arrange the visit, flew in from London to be on hand for the occasion.

The other lawmakers on the trip were Steve Israel, D-N.Y.; Rodney Alexander, D-La.; Candice Miller, R-Mich.; and Mark Souder, R-Ind.

Weldon said he didn't know why Lantos was in Libya separately.

"I don't know why he did it. I would question why you spend $30,000 to fly across, when you could have flown in on a military plane that had 100 empty seats," Weldon said.

Gadhafi's pledge to scrap Libya's weapons programs was the latest in a series of moves to end his country's international isolation and shed its image as a rogue nation. It followed eight months of covert negotiations and inspections by British and U.S. intelligence officials.

The United Nations lifted sanctions against Libya after it accepted responsibility in September for the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am jetliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, and agreed to pay $2.7 billion to the victims' families. The bombing killed 259 people on the plane and 11 on the ground.

So, the moral of the story is clear: the leaders of these countries who have tried terrorism in the past should take responsibility for their own actions and decide to stop terrorism once and for all. Dismantle thier WMD programs. Try to live peacefully with your neighbors and work out problems and differences peacefully. After that happens, we can start to get along and, like the article said, there is no limit to what we can accomplish together.

Pie in the sky, Pollyanna stuff? Evidently not, according to these recent world events. I know full well, those who hate America or what America has done in Iraq to dethrone Saddam will object to this article and try to translate it in a different way, but the facts speak for themselves.

[Membrane]

Oh--and let me point out one more thing--this was done WITHOUT the U.S. military having to go in to the country and taking action. No lives were lost. No one can claim we're trying to dominate. Does the U.S. try to persuade and influence other regimes? Yes. Does the U.S. try to stamp out terrorism? Absolutely!

But it looks like we needed to go in and throw out Saddam in order to start the ball rolling, and now we see it has started to pay off. Is the work in the world finished and can we all go home now? No, of course not! But with developments like the ones in Libya (and with things starting to look up in North Korea), it seems like things have taken a change for the better.

Like the topic of this thread: "American-led Peace Movements"

[Boon Mee]

<But it looks like we needed to go in and throw out Saddam in order to start the ball rolling, and now we see it has started to pay off. Is the work in the world finished and can we all>

Very well put, Membrane - my point too. The US has been "waffling" for far too long e.g. half-hearted attempts to quell terrorists by lobbing million-dollar Stinger missles into empty tents etc.

Look at what France is now reaping from their pacifist stand on terrorism: Chriac banning religious symbols in schools by getting rid of head-scarfs for Muslim girls - and it's blowing up in his face.

But, my take on a lot of the criticism the US is receiving with the war in Iraq is it's being politicized to the nth degree. It's an unpopular war with a lot of folks where Bosina was somehow "cool". Go figure...

Boon Mee