Funny, I remember some other wedding crashers, not too long ago... :

Which ones might they be, Meadish?

June 2002, Afghanistan: 48 civilians (collateral)

March 2004, Iraq: 6 civilians (collateral)

I respect that there is a difference between killing wedding guests in cold blood such as the suicide bombers did in this case, and misunderstanding, or perhaps not being overly concerned with civilian casualities when performing other stuff, as in those two cases above.

But for the bereaved, that difference is totally beside the point. The grief for your loved one is the same. As is the hatred felt towards the perpetrators - at least that's what I imagine, having been lucky enough to never experience anything like that.

In the light of that, Bush's comment is at best clumsy. Can't help but feel that it is somehow deliberately aimed at causing increased animosity though.

June 2002, Afghanistan: 48 civilians (collateral)

March 2004, Iraq: 6 civilians (collateral)

I respect that there is a difference between killing wedding guests in cold blood such as the suicide bombers did in this case, and misunderstanding, or perhaps not being overly concerned with civilian casualities when performing other stuff, as in those two cases above.

But for the bereaved, that difference is totally beside the point. The grief for your loved one is the same. As is the hatred felt towards the perpetrators - at least that's what I imagine, having been lucky enough to never experience anything like that.

In the light of that, Bush's comment is at best clumsy. Can't help but feel that it is somehow deliberately aimed at causing increased animosity though.

Historical Revisionism working overtime here?

I'm sorry if I am sceptical to the 'truth' presented in official US news reports issued in wartime.

How can you be so sure the actual revisionism is not in fact the army report version?

In regards to the brutal bombing of a wedding in Jordan earlier this week, George W. Bush had the following to say:

"The killings should remind all of us that there is an enemy in this world that is willing to kill innocent people, willing to bomb a wedding celebration in order to advance their cause," Bush said in the Oval Office.

Funny, I remember some other wedding crashers, not too long ago...

Well, let’s start at the beginning, shall we?

The main point re the Iraq war is absolutely true: Intelligence agencies overwhelmingly believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that’s where we are today.

Well, let’s start at the beginning, shall we?

The main point re the Iraq war is absolutely true: Intelligence agencies overwhelmingly believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that’s where we are today.

overwhelmingly believed - or wanted it to be so?

Well, let’s start at the beginning, shall we?

The main point re the Iraq war is absolutely true: Intelligence agencies overwhelmingly believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that’s where we are today.

overwhelmingly believed - or wanted it to be so?

Ah...believed is the operative term here as Saddam's track record of gassing his own people and his quest for nuclear material is a given...

Well, let’s start at the beginning, shall we?

The main point re the Iraq war is absolutely true: Intelligence agencies overwhelmingly believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that’s where we are today.

overwhelmingly believed - or wanted it to be so?

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Ah...believed is the operative term here as Saddam's track record of gassing his own people and his quest for nuclear material is a given...

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...and the work of Gerald Bull - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Bull

Really fine sentiment:

“In Zarqa, Munder Moomeni, a 38-year-old former soldier who lives next to Zarqawi’s house, 13 Ramzi Street, described his former neighbour as “a bastard”. “By killing Jordanians here in Jordan, civilian Jordanians going to a wedding, they did something that not even a Jew would do,” he said.”

In case it hasn't dawned on the idiot, someone should point out to him that suicide bombings are exclusively Muslim...

Really fine sentiment:

“In Zarqa, Munder Moomeni, a 38-year-old former soldier who lives next to Zarqawi’s house, 13 Ramzi Street, described his former neighbour as “a bastard”. “By killing Jordanians here in Jordan, civilian Jordanians going to a wedding, they did something that not even a Jew would do,” he said.”

In case it hasn't dawned on the idiot, someone should point out to him that suicide bombings are exclusively Muslim...

They don't have F-16s to bomb an entire apartment block just to attempt to take out a single terror suspect (who wasn't home) like the Israeli air force.

I know you don't like muslims, but Americans, Israelis, Canadians (tortured and killed somalis), and most other nationalities do some pretty horrific things too. Unfortunately you seem too blinded by your own prejudices to ever see any side other than your own. And I'm not talking about understanding the terrorists point of view or any apologist crap. I'm talking about not tarring every muslim with the same brush. While you are sitting there at the keyboard being a web warrior, there are many muslims out there in the American, British, and Iraqi armies fighting against real threats and facing real dangers in fighting terrorists. There are muslims in other allied forces in the gulf, and Afghanistan who actually put their lives on the line to hunt down aned eliminate terrorists. They face roadside bombs, snipers, and mines every day. How many muslim Iraqi police have been killed on duty, who went about their jobs knowing they were a prime target?

Question is, are you brave enough to step out from behind that keyboard, and repeat your rants about muslims to these people, or their widows, and children?

I have no problem with going after every single terrorist, islamic or otherwise. However there are far too many muslims fighting a real battle against real danger, and paying the ultimate price for you to sit there safely in your chair and scapegoat

an entire religion. That's cost the world way too much in the past, and we shouldn't be forgetting that just because it's not Nov 11th anymore.

cv

Well, come to think of it, I haven't ever heard of any Jews doing suicide bombing missions at weddings. My statement still stands...

Well, let’s start at the beginning, shall we?

The main point re the Iraq war is absolutely true: Intelligence agencies overwhelmingly believed that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that’s where we are today.

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How lovely. He probably killed the parents or gave the position to the Air Force to bomb the parent house and then come to salvage what was left. How thoughtful of him

Nice photo op. Disgusting.

Nice photo op. Disgusting.

Typical...

A Trifecta for Butterfly!

ok so you found 3 happy Iraqis who support the US invasion

with millions fighting and about to defeat your "coalition"

Postings "funny" pics is not going to stop the reality of the situation. Deal with it.

Really fine sentiment:

“In Zarqa, Munder Moomeni, a 38-year-old former soldier who lives next to Zarqawi’s house, 13 Ramzi Street, described his former neighbour as “a bastard”. “By killing Jordanians here in Jordan, civilian Jordanians going to a wedding, they did something that not even a Jew would do,” he said.”

In case it hasn't dawned on the idiot, someone should point out to him that suicide bombings are exclusively Muslim...

They don't have F-16s to bomb an entire apartment block just to attempt to take out a single terror suspect (who wasn't home) like the Israeli air force.

I know you don't like muslims, but Americans, Israelis, Canadians (tortured and killed somalis), and most other nationalities do some pretty horrific things too. Unfortunately you seem too blinded by your own prejudices to ever see any side other than your own. And I'm not talking about understanding the terrorists point of view or any apologist crap. I'm talking about not tarring every muslim with the same brush. While you are sitting there at the keyboard being a web warrior, there are many muslims out there in the American, British, and Iraqi armies fighting against real threats and facing real dangers in fighting terrorists. There are muslims in other allied forces in the gulf, and Afghanistan who actually put their lives on the line to hunt down aned eliminate terrorists. They face roadside bombs, snipers, and mines every day. How many muslim Iraqi police have been killed on duty, who went about their jobs knowing they were a prime target?

Question is, are you brave enough to step out from behind that keyboard, and repeat your rants about muslims to these people, or their widows, and children?

I have no problem with going after every single terrorist, islamic or otherwise. However there are far too many muslims fighting a real battle against real danger, and paying the ultimate price for you to sit there safely in your chair and scapegoat

an entire religion. That's cost the world way too much in the past, and we shouldn't be forgetting that just because it's not Nov 11th anymore.

cv

Nice post. You wrote it much better than I ever could.

Well, beside Historical Revisionism at work there’s also a psychological defense mechanism that is referred to as "displacement". The purpose of displacement is to avoid having to cope with actual reality.

This is exactly the illusion/delusion circulating in the minds of many rabid Bush Haters. They want desperately to forget that there is a tidal wave of terror reverberating around the world and to pretend that everything is America's and Bush's fault. If that is true, then they will still be in control of events.

It explains why there is more emphasis on protecting the "rights" of terrorists, rather than holding them accountable for their actions (their actions, by the way are also Bush's fault, according to those in the throes of BDS). The soldiers in Iraq are being killed because of Bush--not because of terrorist intent and behavior. Terrorist activity itself is blamed on Bush no matter where it occurs.

It is a remarkable fact that the Lamestream media, with its endless hyping of Abu Ghraib and similar stories and its obsession with body counts and bad news, have just about succeeded in putting the United States on the wrong side of the war against Islamic terror, one of the purest and most unmitigated evils the world has ever seen.

Boon Me, I am starting to question your basic logic here. Can you count up to 10 ? what is 2+2 ? until you can answer those 2 questions, don't engage into complex logic exercise

Boon Me, I am starting to question your basic logic here. Can you count up to 10 ? what is 2+2 ? until you can answer those 2 questions, don't engage into complex logic exercise 

Basic logic, eh?

Well, try this on for size: What makes Bush Hatred completely insane is the almost delusional degree of unremitting certainty that Bush is evil. This, all the while, believing that the TRUE perpetrators of evil in the world are somehow good and decent human beings with the world's interests at heart.

Boon Me, I am starting to question your basic logic here. Can you count up to 10 ? what is 2+2 ? until you can answer those 2 questions, don't engage into complex logic exercise 

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Basic logic, eh?

Well, try this on for size: What makes Bush Hatred completely insane is the almost delusional degree of unremitting certainty that Bush is evil. This, all the while, believing that the TRUE perpetrators of evil in the world are somehow good and decent human beings with the world's interests at heart.

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Are you having a brain fart ?

Ok repeat after me, 2 + 2 is ?

Well, the psychology of the Bush Haters is pretty cut and dried. Y’all hate Bush because he stands between you and the implementation of your collectivist "utopian" vision.

But, getting back to displacement again. One way you can tell that a person is using that displacement is that the emotion being displaced (e.g., anger) is all out of proportion to the reality of the situation. The purpose of displacement is to avoid having to cope with the actual reality.

This explains the remarkable and sometimes lunatic appeasement of Islamofascists by so many governments and around the world, while they trash the US and our man George.

In layman's terms it's plain old BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome)

I dont know what amateur psychologists you read Boon, but you should do yourself a favour and stop right now, because you are becoming a master of delusion yourself.

Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush.

The sad news is that there is no cure. But there is hope. There are many fine researchers seeking that cure. Your donation to the BDS Foundation, no matter how small, can help. Mailing address: Republican National Committee, Washington DC, Attention: psychiatric department. Just make sure your amount does not exceed $2,000 ($4,000 for a married couple).

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil

is for good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

What about those who don't hate bush, vote conservative, and are strong supporters of fighting terrorism who after examining the facts as thoroughly as we can, and after weeding out the propaganda from the looney left and the just as looney right, come to the conclusion that the Bush administration either lied, or made a very bad judgement call on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

Tougher question.... can Boon answer a direct question without reaching for propaganda? Or will he ignore the question asked as he often does, and bring up something else?

cv

What about those who don't hate bush, vote conservative, and are strong supporters of fighting terrorism who after examining the facts as thoroughly as we can, and after weeding out the propaganda from the looney left and the just as looney right, come to the conclusion that the Bush administration either lied, or made a very bad judgement call on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

Tougher question.... can Boon answer a direct question without reaching for propaganda? Or will he ignore the question asked as he often does, and bring up something else?

cv

I've answered the 'direct question' so many times I'm blue in the face. Can't help it if y'all don't accept, for example, the situation w/regard to bad intellengence that preceded the run-up to the WOT.

What needs to be addressed here as well is the fact that many folks would like to treat international terrorists the same way we treat domestic murderers: as sick people to be cured, without regard to the dignity of those they kill. In the lame attempt to be overly-tolerant and empathetic, we start to identify too much with the enemy (very much like those suffering from Stockholm syndrome) and start to dehumanize the victims of terror. The victims of 9/11, Bali, Jordan, Madrid etc bombings deserve more than that.

What needs to be addressed here as well is the fact that many folks would like to treat international terrorists the same way we treat domestic murderers: as sick people to be cured, without regard to the dignity of those they kill. In the lame attempt to be overly-tolerant and empathetic, we start to identify too much with the enemy (very much like those suffering from Stockholm syndrome) and start to dehumanize the victims of terror. The victims of 9/11, Bali, Jordan, Madrid etc bombings deserve more than that. 

I agree totally. The 2000+ allied troops who have died fighting in Iraq deserved the truth before they gave up their lives too. If you, and others like you were as willing to admit that the Bush administration makes mistakes rather than just continual propagandising you'd have alot more allies.

Unfortunately there's those within the ranks of conservatives who have the mindset that it's their "team" vs the others, and bugger the truth, they consider it a loss of faith to admit mistakes. When someone points out the truth, instead of conceding the point they reach for the slogans and propaganda. Just like the unions do.

cv

What about those who don't hate bush, vote conservative, and are strong supporters of fighting terrorism who after examining the facts as thoroughly as we can, and after weeding out the propaganda from the looney left and the just as looney right, come to the conclusion that the Bush administration either lied, or made a very bad judgement call on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction?

Tougher question.... can Boon answer a direct question without reaching for propaganda? Or will he ignore the question asked as he often does, and bring up something else?

cv

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I've answered the 'direct question' so many times I'm blue in the face. Can't help it if y'all don't accept, for example, the situation w/regard to bad intellengence that preceded the run-up to the WOT.

What needs to be addressed here as well is the fact that many folks would like to treat international terrorists the same way we treat domestic murderers: as sick people to be cured, without regard to the dignity of those they kill. In the lame attempt to be overly-tolerant and empathetic, we start to identify too much with the enemy (very much like those suffering from Stockholm syndrome) and start to dehumanize the victims of terror. The victims of 9/11, Bali, Jordan, Madrid etc bombings deserve more than that.

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:cheesy:

Well, the psychology of the Bush Haters is pretty cut and dried. Y’all hate Bush because he stands between you and the implementation of your collectivist "utopian" vision.

But, getting back to displacement again.  One way you can tell that a person is using that displacement is that the emotion being displaced (e.g., anger) is all out of proportion to the reality of the situation. The purpose of displacement is to avoid having to cope with the actual reality.

This explains the remarkable and sometimes lunatic appeasement of Islamofascists by so many governments and around the world, while they trash the US and our man George.

In layman's terms it's plain old BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome)

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I have question about displacement ? what will it take for you to realize that Bush is playing the same game as the Islamists and that they are both on the same side ? what will it take for you to realize that the real ennemies are fighting hands in hands at your expenses ? what will it take for you to wake up and understand that GW Bush is not working for you and real doesn't care about you ? that you are just a "useful idiot" in this war of ideas/religion/lifestyle ? that your purpose is to be "afraid" like the rest of the American cowards who have decided to give up their freedom for more "security" ? What will it take Boon Me ? don't be a coward and answer the questions for once.

a tidal wave of terror

the faux news cliche conjures up in the mind a seething 40+ foot high wall of bandoleered , mustachioed villians sweeping onto the beach - ah your vision of reality is seriously flawed.

with its endless hyping of Abu Ghraib and similar stories

these all too common misjustices inflicted on peoples around the world by ill educated thugs in uniform are probably the largest influence in producing the people ,that like to blow themselves up while in a crowd of people , open fire with an assault rifle on passers by , and other types of mayhem perpertrated by people who have no desire to live in the world that seems to be their lot.

as for your continous rants about muslims - why is it that those of us who have worked and lived in muslim countries around the world do not share your views on the evils of islam? could it be that our experiences are in countries that are not impoverished and scarred by conflict?

and as for dubya - would you hire a man with this resume

his incompetance is the reason we dispise him - if he was only incharge of a broom it would be ok - but the position he is in endagers all of us.......