Thai PM Tells Bangkok To Move Belongings To Safety

[hellodolly]

I have a little bit of trouble following the logic here. Factory destruction will NOT hurt investor confidence (???) but an emergency decree that might enable the situation to be better handled WILL (???)

Maybe I am reading things wrongly?

Notice people are not a matter of concern to her. Investors are. Does any one smell a Thaksin?

[rogerdee123]

When I was building houses in Oz there were maps that showed exactly - to the nearest few centimetres which areas would be submerged according to the rise in water level. I presume that Bkk has similar information - so why is there no such map available on the net?

Ohhhh cowslip...so naive

I think the irrigation Dept probably has something like this.

However Bangkok is continuously sinking ... so these maps must be continuously upgraded which requires continuously surveying the land subsistence. So whatever they have is probably not accurate although whatever they have would be helpful info in any case.

[Xidi]

Quote from the thread starter: " Most of Thailand's main tourist attractions -- including the southern islands of Samui, Phuket and Phi Phi -- have been unaffected ..."

Can't agree. Even here in Samui i've seen yesterday an empty shelf at Tesco's, where bottled water should be. They also run out of plastic bags.

Sure, no reason to worry compare to the bkk - situation, but things might get worse easily.

[rogerdee123]

Evidently, as many comments underline it, important information is not given.

If we have to prepare for One meter to one meter and a half water surge from which "ground" to we have to count this height ? from the klong ? From the road ? from the sea level ? It makes huge differences for me as I am situated one meter more above the klong level but one meter under the road level...

There are a lot of different ground levels in one 'khet' a map of the really "at risk" places could have been done by authorities (even though, I know, they are busy elsewhere... but they could mobilize students in geography, or whoever, to do so...).

Besides these considerations, I am surprised (well, not that much in fact) that Thailand does not have a proper water management system : Monsoon has been going on here for quite a while. Deforestation and urbanization worsened the problem... And nothing serious seemed to have been done by any government might it be democrat or Thaksinian.

I worry much about the crisis aftermath : economic recovery will be extremely hard, will need a lot of money coming form abroad (which, by the way could lessen a bit the pressure on Europe) with certain impact on the baht. There might also be forced unemployment (if japanese industries decide not to take anymore risks for the years to come and relocate elsewhere in Asia for example) and social unrest.

By the way, the political promises made during the campaign will be forgotten : 300 hundred baht a day ? Forget it ! Bad for recovery ! I-pads for students ? Forget it ! Bad for national reconstruction !

And who will be responsible ? Rain ? Water management officials ? Prime Minister ? Dharma ? Spirits ? Each and every Thai ?

Will there be any "sustainable and responsible" water management policy ? Will Bangkok's urban development plans be reviewed ? (Condos of over 50 floors weight a lot... nothing is done to enhance a sensible way of managing the problem).

Well, all in all, it is Thai people's (and not only thai elite) problem and I am quite happy to be out of such political mess. May they make a good choice, they'll be the only responsible for it anyway.

I also hope there will not be any violence towards foreigners living in Thailand... (which could be understandable given the situation and the ideology... but not forgivable).

I think if you are below the road level you should consider your house at risk.

[trutrvl]

Bangkok is a big city. Which areas could suffer from worst case scenario. CBD for example. She as usual is telling us nothing

Also I find no relevant guiding instruction for residents on how to prepare for the worst.I see people block enterances with sandbags, but does it really help, when water can actually flow from toilets? Is there any source fire information on that?

So right! Every sentance uttered is inconclusive... Dosn't any government agency got maps?!

Instead of useless and contradictive statements why not show on a map which gates will open, which areas are below sea level and what is the flood prediction upon opening the gates.... Would also be most reassuring if someone said "gates will open during low tide and closed at high tide" some statement of this nature would make us think someone actually knows what they are doing.

Really, Thailand has no lack of qualified hydroligists, engineers & consultents willing to help... cut the crap driven by politics and let the experts do what's needed when needed. Polititians should keep right out of this one and not be allowed to even talk, let alone make the decisions!

Edited October 21, 2011 by trutrvl

[cowslip]

PM shuns emergency decree imposition for fear that it will hurt foreign confidence; urges all parties to unit, fight against floods /MCOT

foreign confidence already submegred in meters of Thai water. what is the NEXT priority ?

Hurt foreign confidence? Of course we must first think about what "foreigners" might think before we take any action to protect our citizens who are dying and losing everything. Is this woman for real? Unbelievable she would make this statement pubicly.

Then she can blame the ' foreigner' for making her delay the emergency decree. It's all a blame game..... ie who THEY can blame except themselves.

I'm getting used to the inane comments on TV but now they are joined by the paranoid!

[PierreLoubignac]

so why is there no such map available on the net?

Here are a few flood maps:

http://flood.longdo.com/en

http://ictgis.totidc.net/viewer/

crisislanding.appspot.com thailand_floods

Here'a a map of where it's currently raining: http://www.thairainmap.com

Does anyonw know of any altitude (or "elevation") above sea level maps?

There's one here where you can select one point on the map and get the altitude but it's currently unavailable (it was available and fully working yesterday...)

http://www.daftlogic.com/sandbox-google-maps-find-altitude.htm

[angeledge]

For those who were not prepared one week ago, this is already too late. There is no drinkin water anywhere and same thing for food. I think this announcement is well done for a prime minister but with some lack. Not enough informations and she have to give us a direct time and date. Not only during the weekend.

Thai visa mates, we dont know what is awaiting us. For those who appreciate me and for those who dont, i wish you safety and hope to see you again arguing here soon. For now, only god knows what is going to happen...

My food is ready, candles ready, water ready and stuffs on second floor.

Peace guys...

[Bpuumike]

I have a little bit of trouble following the logic here. Factory destruction will NOT hurt investor confidence (???) but an emergency decree that might enable the situation to be better handled WILL (???)

Maybe I am reading things wrongly?

Foreign investor confidence has already been lost as the government has been exposed by the worldwide media as inept and incompetent.

[cowslip]

so why is there no such map available on the net?

Here are a few flood maps:

http://flood.longdo.com/en

http://ictgis.totidc.net/viewer/

crisislanding.appspot.com thailand_floods

Here'a a map of where it's currently raining: http://www.thairainmap.com

Does anyonw know of any altitude (or "elevation") above sea level maps?

They are getting there, but more detail is required - as you say it is water and elevation that is important, then people can decide for themselves what will happen if/when the water comes.

I suspect that rainfall is a dwindling factor - they appear to be dealing with excess water already in the system that is making it's inexorable way down South.

[cowslip]

"foreign confidence" - I love those comments.....they sound like people who have read this expression elsewhere on Thai visa or other forums so they've decided to use it on this thread in the hope that they they might sound intelligent too.

[hyperdimension]

There's one here where you can select one point on the map and get the altitude but it's currently unavailable (it was available and fully working yesterday...)

http://www.daftlogic...nd-altitude.htm

Yes, I had found that one too.

Here's one where you can trace a route and it will show the elevation at each point of the route: http://www.gmap-pedometer.com

I would prefer a color-coded map though. I think the Terrain overlay in Google Maps is to show things like vegetation and not elevation above sea level.

[Buchholz]

is there a flood map on the net?

There's several good ones put out by the media, but not allowed to post them here.

.

[Bpuumike]

"foreign confidence" - I love those comments.....they sound like people who have read this expression elsewhere on Thai visa or other forums so they've decided to use it on this thread in the hope that they they might sound intelligent too.

Try foreign investor confidence.

The confidence of foreigners (i.e. non-Thais) to invest (and risk) their capital in the country, whether they be Japanese multinationals considering factories or farangs considering property.

Clear enough?

[ricku]

is there a flood map on the net?

There's several good ones put out by the media, but not allowed to post them here.

.

Why on earth not??

[ThaiSold]

OMG guys it's a massive flood, there is no quick solution. Ayuttaya has been under water for weeks now and still is, the water can't go away quickly because it keeps coming, the water is going to keep coming into Bangkok for weeks if not a month to come. There is no quick solution, there is no political solution, you can't stop a flood from happening like this one. It's going to happen and the water is going to come. be prepared, stock up on food sandbag what you can or get out of dodge. I honestly wonder how many people here pointing fingers are volunteering themselves to help with the situation.

Totally agree on all that you said. We are not frustrated about the coming flood. We are frustrated that the truth/the correct information is not given. And that same mistakes are made over and over(about trying to block the water) instead of finding ways to divert flood quickly to the sea.

Evidently, as many comments underline it, important information is not given.

If we have to prepare for One meter to one meter and a half water surge from which "ground" to we have to count this height ? from the klong ? From the road ? from the sea level ? It makes huge differences for me as I am situated one meter more above the klong level but one meter under the road level...

There are a lot of different ground levels in one 'khet' a map of the really "at risk" places could have been done by authorities (even though, I know, they are busy elsewhere... but they could mobilize students in geography, or whoever, to do so...).

Besides these considerations, I am surprised (well, not that much in fact) that Thailand does not have a proper water management system : Monsoon has been going on here for quite a while. Deforestation and urbanization worsened the problem... And nothing serious seemed to have been done by any government might it be democrat or Thaksinian.

I worry much about the crisis aftermath : economic recovery will be extremely hard, will need a lot of money coming form abroad (which, by the way could lessen a bit the pressure on Europe) with certain impact on the baht. There might also be forced unemployment (if japanese industries decide not to take anymore risks for the years to come and relocate elsewhere in Asia for example) and social unrest.

By the way, the political promises made during the campaign will be forgotten : 300 hundred baht a day ? Forget it ! Bad for recovery ! I-pads for students ? Forget it ! Bad for national reconstruction !

And who will be responsible ? Rain ? Water management officials ? Prime Minister ? Dharma ? Spirits ? Each and every Thai ?

Will there be any "sustainable and responsible" water management policy ? Will Bangkok's urban development plans be reviewed ? (Condos of over 50 floors weight a lot... nothing is done to enhance a sensible way of managing the problem).

Well, all in all, it is Thai people's (and not only thai elite) problem and I am quite happy to be out of such political mess. May they make a good choice, they'll be the only responsible for it anyway.

I also hope there will not be any violence towards foreigners living in Thailand... (which could be understandable given the situation and the ideology... but not forgivable).

[Buchholz]

is there a flood map on the net?

There's several good ones put out by the media, but not allowed to post them here.

Why on earth not??

They are copyrighted and the forum doesn't allow it.

[plumeria]

When I was building houses in Oz there were maps that showed exactly - to the nearest few centimetres which areas would be submerged according to the rise in water level. I presume that Bkk has similar information - so why is there no such map available on the net?

Right. This is nothing new and Thais are very experienced with flood management and national weather patterns.

That is why it is unforgivable for mismanagement of the situation to this degree.

Of course, officials know the exact elevation of all parts of Bangkok as well as all other parts of the country.

I've seen the maps and models. They know underground water levels. They know where and how water flows all over the country.

Their computer models (which are internationally used application programs) are amazingly accurate and detailed down to how much water can be absorbed by an aquifer (or not).

The physics and mechanics of water are known and the quantities are known.

Water management is an old and well developed discipline that has been evolving since the Garden of Eden.

Management can be a challenge. But monitoring and predicting what has happened and will happen does not require a crystal ball.

Accuracy is a matter of a plus or minus percentage.

That is why the lack of details from the PM can only be intentional.

No way she cannot know, with precision, exactly what is going to happen, to whom, when, how long, how much.

[PierreLoubignac]

OMG guys it's a massive flood, there is no quick solution. Ayuttaya has been under water for weeks now and still is, the water can't go away quickly because it keeps coming, the water is going to keep coming into Bangkok for weeks if not a month to come. There is no quick solution, there is no political solution, you can't stop a flood from happening like this one. It's going to happen and the water is going to come. be prepared, stock up on food sandbag what you can or get out of dodge. I honestly wonder how many people here pointing fingers are volunteering themselves to help with the situation.

You're saying that there's a massive flood so we shouldn't be on this forum, right ? well... Seems you are on it too.

I think you should keep your good morale for yourself... It doesn't help either.

Good luck with the floods

Cheers.

[OzMick]

I recall the crying Thai politician vividly in regards to the flooded Japanese factory.

I cannot recall crying politicians regarding mothers, fathers, children swept away or possessions destroyed or looted.

I just assumed that he owned shares.

[SunDaRi]

I have a-lot of vulgarities towards the PM right now.

[rogerdee123]

When I was building houses in Oz there were maps that showed exactly - to the nearest few centimetres which areas would be submerged according to the rise in water level. I presume that Bkk has similar information - so why is there no such map available on the net?

Right. This is nothing new and Thais are very experienced with flood management and national weather patterns.

That is why it is unforgivable for mismanagement of the situation to this degree.

Of course, officials know the exact elevation of all parts of Bangkok as well as all other parts of the country.

I've seen the maps and models. They know underground water levels. They know where and how water flows all over the country.

Their computer models (which are internationally used application programs) are amazingly accurate and detailed down to how much water can be absorbed by an aquifer (or not).

The physics and mechanics of water are known and the quantities are known.

Water management is an old and well developed discipline that has been evolving since the Garden of Eden.

Management can be a challenge. But monitoring and predicting what has happened and will happen does not require a crystal ball.

Accuracy is a matter of a plus or minus percentage.

That is why the lack of details from the PM can only be intentional.

No way she cannot know, with precision, exactly what is going to happen, to whom, when, how long, how much.

And the Minister of Agriculture also ... who theoretically supervises the Irrigation Dept? Just 5 days ago he said "The Worse is Over".

I don't think these "leaders" are interested in reading or concentrating on or even thinking about anything technical.

[HardenedSoul]

For those who were not prepared one week ago, this is already too late. There is no drinkin water anywhere and same thing for food.

There's no way the city's dry. People may just have to look a little bit further afield than usual.

[PierreLoubignac]

For those who were not prepared one week ago, this is already too late. There is no drinkin water anywhere and same thing for food.

There's no way the city's dry. People may just have to look a little bit further afield than usual.

There are also automatic water machines that can be used to fill plastic bottles... It can be of some help... before flooding water arrives.

[silsburyhill]

PM shuns emergency decree imposition for fear that it will hurt foreign confidence; urges all parties to unit, fight against floods /MCOT

foreign confidence already submegred in meters of Thai water. what is the NEXT priority ?

Hurt foreign confidence? Of course we must first think about what "foreigners" might think before we take any action to protect our citizens who are dying and losing everything. Is this woman for real? Unbelievable she would make this statement pubicly.

It will hurt foreign confidence in the same way that the neglecting of any warning of the tsunami would have hurt foreign tourism, but have saved thousands of lives. It seems money really is God here.

[tommyyoung]

Bangkok is a big city. Which areas could suffer from worst case scenario. CBD for example. She as usual is telling us nothing

It 's not so easy.

Bangkok channel of rivers and canals is quite complex.

Unofortunately for who is only blaming the PM, we should point out the October massive rain has been the main cause of this flooding, the water is putting increasing pressure in the walls.

If you look at the Thai Royal Meteorology forecast issued about 1 month ago about October , it was forecasted rain BELOW average in North/Northeast with cool temperature (in few words early dry season).

They failed completeley, if the massive rain from mid Sept to Mid October had been forecasted correctly, the early plan to build concrete and sandbags wall could have been scrapped in favour of a controlled flooding , what they are trying to do now.

As long as the water volume is not excessive , the pressure of the water can be controlled and the concrete walls resist and the sun of the dry season helps to evaporate the water in Central-Northern provice, but again, rain in the past 30 days have been highly above average contrary to the forecast and this was the cause of the first plan not to be effective.

It's unfair to blame the PM ,everybody has tried to do his best, there was a techincal mistake in the meteorology forecast,which didn't take into account the current ENSO - (Nina) and the position of the ITCZ (Intertropical Convergence Zone).

Edited October 21, 2011 by tommyyoung

[angeledge]

For those who were not prepared one week ago, this is already too late. There is no drinkin water anywhere and same thing for food.

There's no way the city's dry. People may just have to look a little bit further afield than usual.

There are also automatic water machines that can be used to fill plastic bottles... It can be of some help... before flooding water arrives.

I already filled my empty bottles with the automatic water machines. I am more than ready for what is going to arrive but so sad for those who are not. As you say, those machines will be unusable after flooding and forget about buying water at the grocery... Empty!

[rogerdee123]

For those who were not prepared one week ago, this is already too late. There is no drinkin water anywhere and same thing for food.

There's no way the city's dry. People may just have to look a little bit further afield than usual.

You are probably correct ..... for the moment.

But with roads blocked and factories and warehouses flooded, and surrounding vegie and chicken & pig farms flooded .... how will they restock the 7/11's, markets, etc

This is one of the real problems that disasters such as this bring and which need solutions now.

I don't think many people have to be worried about drowning .... the worries are food, water, medical, and losing mobility and communications.

And of course shelter for those who have to evacuate.

[ThaiSold]

OMG guys it's a massive flood, there is no quick solution. Ayuttaya has been under water for weeks now and still is, the water can't go away quickly because it keeps coming, the water is going to keep coming into Bangkok for weeks if not a month to come. There is no quick solution, there is no political solution, you can't stop a flood from happening like this one. It's going to happen and the water is going to come. be prepared, stock up on food sandbag what you can or get out of dodge. I honestly wonder how many people here pointing fingers are volunteering themselves to help with the situation.

You're saying that there's a massive flood so we shouldn't be on this forum, right ? well... Seems you are on it too.

I think you should keep your good morale for yourself... It doesn't help either.

Good luck with the floods

Cheers.

mmm I live in Chiang Mai and helped with the floods here, dontated to the red cross, and don't blame the government for acts of god.

[Arkady]

I recall the crying Thai politician vividly in regards to the flooded Japanese factory.

I cannot recall crying politicians regarding mothers, fathers, children swept away or possessions destroyed or looted.

Would he have been able to do a better job of controlling his emotions, if there were no cameras to capture it?

Remember he is the Commerce Minister. It is the Interior Minister's job to cry about human suffering but he has been nowhere to be seen

Edited October 21, 2011 by Arkady