Even This National Disaster Is Being Used As A Political Weapon: Thai Opinion

[siampolee]

Surely as the leader of the opposition is not holding power there is no reason that he would need to be in country..

Any comments that may be made by the leader of the opposition would and are according to many to be criticism of the current administration and it handling of flooding matters.

Thaksin has managed in the past and still is managing his puppet master control even though he is in Dubai or wherever he may be at the moment..None of the Thaksin apologists have commented on that fact.

Edited October 27, 2011 by siampolee

[hanuman1]

It is the Democrat party handling of this that makes it appear so bad. Leaving the country during a time of crisis is obviously something that doesnt look good to some people and isnt recommended political procedure especially for the leader of the opposition, and nobody can complain when political opponents target it. After all the ludicrous claims of Yinglcuk being at a Yanni concert while people were suffering was pushed when it was obviously rubbish. I also cant imagine say Miliband doing such a thing in similar cicumstances. However, if Abhisit had just come back and made a statement along the lines of: stressful times for my family facing flooding and we took a short break that had been planned ages ago etc etc, it would have been less of a story than denying it happened, making sure sympathetic press didnt report it, and then try to rationalize it away in some fact finding or diplomatic mission way that sounds utterly unbelievable. The Democrat party even after getting uttelry humped at the last election, part cause of which was chronically awful PR, still havent learnt the lesson and seem to have a PR team that could make FROC and Sukhumband look efficient.

And on a related point (well not related at all really) it turns out that the PM's infamous Burberry wellies were in fact a Chinese knock off.Whereas the Chanel boots worn by the slightly scary (to my eyes) PAD supporting harpy wife of a leading very rich Democrat politician were the real thing.Go figure

Oh God, don't start with the footwear politics again, please!!!

[hammered]

Surely as the leader of the opposition is not holding power there is no reason that he would need to be in country..

Any comments that may be made by the leader of the opposition would and are according to many to be criticism of the current administration and it handling of flooding matters.

Thaksin has managed in the past and still is managing his puppet master control even though he is in Dubai or wherever he may be at the moment..None of the Thaksin apologists have commented on that fact.

The critical and political point is that if it were no problem why did the democrat party lie about it by at first denying he had been away?

[whybother]

It is the Democrat party handling of this that makes it appear so bad. Leaving the country during a time of crisis is obviously something that doesnt look good to some people and isnt recommended political procedure especially for the leader of the opposition, and nobody can complain when political opponents target it. After all the ludicrous claims of Yinglcuk being at a Yanni concert while people were suffering was pushed when it was obviously rubbish. I also cant imagine say Miliband doing such a thing in similar cicumstances. However, if Abhisit had just come back and made a statement along the lines of: stressful times for my family facing flooding and we took a short break that had been planned ages ago etc etc, it would have been less of a story than denying it happened, making sure sympathetic press didnt report it, and then try to rationalize it away in some fact finding or diplomatic mission way that sounds utterly unbelievable. The Democrat party even after getting uttelry humped at the last election, part cause of which was chronically awful PR, still havent learnt the lesson and seem to have a PR team that could make FROC and Sukhumband look efficient.

The first statement I saw WAS that "they took a short break that had been planned ages ago". There was never any denying that he went.

I haven't seen reporting of it being a "diplomatic mission" ... except on here.

[jayboy]

There was never any denying that he went.

You might want to refresh your memory with the relevant threads on this forum! Feel free to back pedal.

I do agree however that the Dems never denied the trip,though they didn't actually volunteer information on this PR disaster (though it wasn't one in my view).There is a "truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth issue".As usual the Democrats public relations skills have been abysmal

I gather there is a shot of Abhisit in a thong and flip flops carrying a spear gun running after a somewhat puzzled Maldives president for a hastily arranged photo-op.(I made that last sentence up.)

In the scheme of things this is an incredibly trivial incident but it does throw some light on the automatic denial response of some partisan interests.I'm sure it applies equally to incidents potentially damaging to the other side although at the moment the torrent of hatred and lies seems to be coming mainly from the government's opponents.It could change with the weather.

[whybother]

You might want to refresh your memory with the relevant threads on this forum! Feel free to back pedal.

Refresh my memory on the denial or on the "diplomatic mission"?

As far as I have seen, there has been no denial from the Democrats.

I did find one mention of the "diplomatic mission" from Andrew Spooner's blog with a link to Matchicon (in Thai).

Maybe you can help me refresh my memory.

Edited October 27, 2011 by whybother

[serenitynow]

There was never any denying that he went.

You might want to refresh your memory with the relevant threads on this forum! Feel free to back pedal.

I do agree however that the Dems never denied the trip,though they didn't actually volunteer information on this PR disaster (though it wasn't one in my view).There is a "truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth issue".As usual the Democrats public relations skills have been abysmal

I gather there is a shot of Abhisit in a thong and flip flops carrying a spear gun running after a somewhat puzzled Maldives president for a hastily arranged photo-op.(I made that last sentence up.)

In the scheme of things this is an incredibly trivial incident but it does throw some light on the automatic denial response of some partisan interests.I'm sure it applies equally to incidents potentially damaging to the other side although at the moment the torrent of hatred and lies seems to be coming mainly from the government's opponents.It could change with the weather.

I guess in this 24 hour media age there is an inclination for people to get sidetracked by process over substance. It's a sad development in my view.

[animatic]

Abhisit has been through a long and difficult run culminating in the election loss. Flood or not, Thailand would still function with one less politician for a few days. In the age of cellphones and prepaid sims available in any airport,

and email, there is no reason he couldn't be in touch hourly for conferencing. You need not be in 'any one place' to deal with problems in another. As it is Ayuthaiya flooding can be monitored from Hong Kong as easily as Bangkok. The only need to be onsite once you know the lay of the land is for appearances, not monitoring.

but as I remember it last year, when he was in charge he flew back from abroad early to deal with the problems. he need not this year, since it is not his job.

Anyone who would begrudge him a short vacation, he hasn't had one in years, is doing so simply for political gamesmanship and no other reasons.

Just their decrying it, makes the whine suspect on face value.

Get a life.

Edited October 27, 2011 by animatic

[tlansford]

ok don't answer on anything else you've stated then.

'perception'... yet you don't seem to perceive it negatively.

so it's just propaganda and how it looks rather than what it actually is... mmm

i honestly can't believe people don't see it in a negative light... i mean if bias was ever on a billboard, it's now.

I believe it was just a week or so ago that Jatuporn went really really really really far away, about 8 hours from BKK (by bus), ... just a little day-trip to Udon Thani, and there was a small revolt here on the forum about him not being in BKK 24 hours a day helping with the flood relief.

of course the Democrat's were there to throw stones, too, as faithfully reported by TAN, ...

The Democrat Party Spokesperson Chawanond Intarakomalsut criticized Pheu Thai Party list MP and key red-shirt leader Jatuporn Phromphan for not attending to red-shirt supporters who are suffering from floods in many provinces, to preside over the opening of the red-shirt district in Udon Thani Province instead.

Pick your poison, pleasure trip to the Maldives or Udon Thani ? Mark is a pretty smart guy, isn't he?

I doubt anyone objected to Jatuporn not being in Bangkok. Even farther away would have been great, like Mongolia. The objections were to Jatuporn using the cover of a national crisis to sow division. I think I pointed that out already.

you did make that point, but many others made exactly the same argument as the Dem spokesman above.

[JohnAllan]

Hardly the time for mud slinging.

Yes, Yingluck is responsible for running things. Rather than stupid, she was naive, letting herself be put in a situation for which she had no experience and was totally unprepared. Blame her brother. Blame other PT MPs, who are now nowhere to be found. And by all means blame the majority who elected PT without thought, or any idea, of the potential consequences. But don't choose now to blame Yingluck. She needs all the help she can get, and if her own MPs won't stand up and be counted, the least every one else can do is give her their support, and concentrate on recriminations afterwards - preferably where most deserved.

[rubl]

Moved from another topic to here where it seems to fit a wee bit better:

To the posting:

Was this omitted due to that alleged clampdown on the press?

Floods are here but I need a rest!

Abhisit admits to Maldives trip amid Thailand flood crisis"

A response from one member was:

So what if the trip happened. What is the problem with that? And what does it have to do with freedom of the press?"

Any member of Parliament should be working for the good of the country during moments such as this one. Any member of the opposition (voted out of power or not), should be taking government officials to task to do what is right and viable: this is their supreme duty. During moment s such as these a member of parliament (of any political persuasion) should help, not obstruct. But to go away on a holiday? That is the epitome of selfishness and indifference to the ills of the country.

I thought that perhaps the news and details of where and when Abhisit went on vacation had been muted to prevent disunity in the country.

If the news of the trip were put on the last page of a newspaper, why was it so?

Question in keeping with the gist of the thread. If it hurts his adoring fans do a reality check. The fact is that Abhisit did go on a holiday far away while the country was going through a monumental and dangerous moment.

Where is Dept. PM Chalerm? Haven't heard from him for weeks. Still busy with "I'll get k. Thaksin back"? Some Pheu Thai party list MPs and UDD leaders being in flood devastated Udon for a red-shirt district which has only symbolic meaning in fortifying against possible coups. A Science minister who has been awfully quiet after the "my 1000 boats will drain the water in no time", etc., etc.

Evacuees having to relocate one/two times, Bangkok people advised to leave the city, evacuation space prepared (for 10,000 out of a measly 10 million).

I still remember posters writing after July 3rd "THE Thai people have spoken, THE Thai people don't want Abhisit". Now it's K. Abhisit went on a 3-day holiday, the country has been devastated. Where are you, where were you, we need you

(edit: add: another fine one who should go on holiday: Pheu Thai MP for Bangkok and red-shirt leader Karun Hosaku, allegedly suing anyone who dares to suggest he destroyed a dyke along Khlong Prapa)

Edited October 27, 2011 by rubl

[WarpSpeed]

I do remember Abhisit and Yingluck putting their heads together with their cronies trying to organise people to stop the current flooding. So with both sides of the Gov having a go, no one can complain. This deluge of rain and current flooding NO one was going to stop.

And then he shot off to the Maldives for a vacation..

[Thaddeus]

I do remember Abhisit and Yingluck putting their heads together with their cronies trying to organise people to stop the current flooding. So with both sides of the Gov having a go, no one can complain. This deluge of rain and current flooding NO one was going to stop.

And then he shot off to the Maldives for a vacation..

Probably desperate to go somewhere clean to wash his hands.

[siampolee]

There are indeed a lot of absent members of the current cabinet along with their deputies, one is led to wonder where they may be, these are the guys being paid to do the job.

Let's go through the list to see just how many of these worthies are here, have been involved in the current situation and are still involved in the current situation.

I note that Chalerm is conspicuous by his absence, as is Yongyut Wichadit just as starters come on you enthusiasts lets find the missing members.

http://en.wikipedia.org

Cabinet of ThailandPortfolioMinisterDeputy MinisterPrime MinisterYingluck Shinawatra Deputy Prime MinisterYongyuth Wichaidit Deputy Prime MinisterPol. Capt Chalerm UbumrungDeputy Prime MinisterPol. Gen Kowit WattanaDeputy Prime MinisterKittiratt Na-RanongDeputy Prime MinisterChumpol Silpa-archaThe Office of the Prime MinisterSurawit KhonsomboonKritsana SihalakMinistry of InteriorYongyuth WichaiditChuchat HansawatThanit ThienthongMinistry of JusticePol. Gen Pracha PromnokMinistry of DefenceGen Yuthasak SasipraphaMinistry of FinanceThirachai PhuvanatnaranubalaBoonsong TeriyapiromWirun TechapaiboonMinistry of Foreign AffairsSurapong TowijakchaikulMinistry of Social Development and Human SecuritySanti PrompatMinistry of Agriculture and CooperativesTheera WongsamutPornsak CharoenprasertMinistry of TransportACM Sukampol SuwannathatPol. Lt Gen Chat KuldilokKittisak HatthasongkhroMinistry of Natural Resource and EnvironmentPreecha RengsomboonsukMinistry of Information and Communication TechnologyGrp Cpt Anudith NakornthapMinistry of EnergyPichai NaripthaphanMinistry of CommerceKittiratt Na-RanongPhum SarapholSiriwat KachornprasartMinistry of LabourPadermchai SasomsapMinistry of CultureSukumol KunplomeMinistry of Science and TechnologyDr. Plodprasop SuraswadiMinistry of EducationWorawat Ua-apinyakulBoonruen SritharesSuraphong Ueng-amphonwilaiMinistry of Public HealthWitthaya BuranasiriTorpong ChaiyasarnMinistry of IndustryWannarat ChannukulMinistry of Tourism and SportsChumpol Silpa-archa

Edited October 27, 2011 by siampolee

[whybother]

Noppadol claims Thaksin never told anyone to put his name on relief supply truck. Ppl who loved him did that by themselves. /via@tulsathit

Is that supposed to be an excuse?

I trust he is doing his best to make sure the signs are all taken down.

[siampolee]

Noppadol claims Thaksin never told anyone to put his name on relief supply truck. Ppl who loved him did that by themselves./via@tulsathit

All rather like the comments on walls in the UK. certainly in the 1950--1970 era telling all and sundry, "Kilroy was here." hell of a popular chap was Kilroy yet nobody knew him.

As an aside it was a popular belief that , "Kilroy" was a welding inspector in the American shipbuilding industry, "Kilroy was," here it seemed was the pass mark of his quality control.

Edited October 27, 2011 by siampolee

[Thaddeus]

There are indeed a lot of absent members of the current cabinet along with their deputies, one is led to wonder where they may be, these are the guys being paid to do the job.

Let's go through the list to see just how many of these worthies are here, have been involved in the current situation and are still involved in the current situation.

I note that Chalerm is conspicuous by his absence, as is Yongyut Wichadit just as starters come on you enthusiasts lets find the missing members.

http://en.wikipedia.org

Cabinet of ThailandPortfolioMinisterDeputy MinisterPrime MinisterYingluck Shinawatra Deputy Prime MinisterYongyuth Wichaidit Deputy Prime MinisterPol. Capt Chalerm UbumrungDeputy Prime MinisterPol. Gen Kowit WattanaDeputy Prime MinisterKittiratt Na-RanongDeputy Prime MinisterChumpol Silpa-archaThe Office of the Prime MinisterSurawit KhonsomboonKritsana SihalakMinistry of InteriorYongyuth WichaiditChuchat HansawatThanit ThienthongMinistry of JusticePol. Gen Pracha PromnokMinistry of DefenceGen Yuthasak SasipraphaMinistry of FinanceThirachai PhuvanatnaranubalaBoonsong TeriyapiromWirun TechapaiboonMinistry of Foreign AffairsSurapong TowijakchaikulMinistry of Social Development and Human SecuritySanti PrompatMinistry of Agriculture and CooperativesTheera WongsamutPornsak CharoenprasertMinistry of TransportACM Sukampol SuwannathatPol. Lt Gen Chat KuldilokKittisak HatthasongkhroMinistry of Natural Resource and EnvironmentPreecha RengsomboonsukMinistry of Information and Communication TechnologyGrp Cpt Anudith NakornthapMinistry of EnergyPichai NaripthaphanMinistry of CommerceKittiratt Na-RanongPhum SarapholSiriwat KachornprasartMinistry of LabourPadermchai SasomsapMinistry of CultureSukumol KunplomeMinistry of Science and TechnologyDr. Plodprasop SuraswadiMinistry of EducationWorawat Ua-apinyakulBoonruen SritharesSuraphong Ueng-amphonwilaiMinistry of Public HealthWitthaya BuranasiriTorpong ChaiyasarnMinistry of IndustryWannarat ChannukulMinistry of Tourism and SportsChumpol Silpa-archa

A couple of those are still in the spotlight, for what it's worth, the rest are like most Man U fans, only sing when they are winning.

When this is all over, expect all of the above to resurface (excuse the pun) with an even more impressive display of medals than they had before (yes, I do have a hang-up about un-earned pieces of ribbon .... and wings..... especially when most of them couldn't earn one star as staff in McDonalds)

Edited October 27, 2011 by Thaddeus

[Buchholz]

Noppadol claims Thaksin never told anyone to put his name on relief supply truck. Ppl who loved him did that by themselves. /via@tulsathit

Is that supposed to be an excuse?

I trust he is doing his best to make sure the signs are all taken down.

That doesn't seem to be the case...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507706&view=findpost&p=4793126

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=507706&view=findpost&p=4794105

[SunDaRi]

This article is not well written :-/ just a reporter being bitchy defending his political territory

[nurofiend]

there's literally no point in trying to reason with some of ye

i mean, it's gone beyond a joke at this stage.

[ThaiOats]

there's literally no point in trying to reason with some of ye

i mean, it's gone beyond a joke at this stage.

But the comedy show is still going on and will be for the next 3 years! Speaking of comedy, lemme go watch Thaksin Rap on youtube... never gets old.

[Siam Simon]

there's literally no point in trying to reason with some of ye

i mean, it's gone beyond a joke at this stage.

You can have an easy ride in these political discussions if you just subscribe to the political views of the gang of anti-Thaksin forum bullys and don't deviate from their organised party line. If you want to express your own opinions and have open-minded political debate, you are in for a rough ride because of the aforementioned forum bullys. I, personally, find it fun. But it's certainly not for the thin-cyberskinned.

[mca]

I suppose the basic question is were the roles reversed and Abhisit was still the PM and Yingluk was leader of the opposition during the current crisis would the posters supporting Abhisit's choice to be away for a few days accept the same arguments defending Yingluk?

Or would there be a gleeful posting of pictures of her dining in a restaurant etc. along with comments such as " You can see how much she loves the Thai people during their hour of need"

Ah, political forums. You've got to love 'em.

[AleG]

I suppose the basic question is were the roles reversed and Abhisit was still the PM and Yingluk was leader of the opposition during the current crisis would the posters supporting Abhisit's choice to be away for a few days accept the same arguments defending Yingluk?

Or would there be a gleeful posting of pictures of her dining in a restaurant etc. along with comments such as " You can see how much she loves the Thai people during their hour of need"

Ah, political forums. You've got to love 'em.

If you completely ignore the tiny little nuance that Abhisit is not the current PM, yeah, I guess.

In the reverse case, Abhisit is PM and Yingluck goes on a weekend trip, nobody, but nobody would bat an eyelid; least of all because Yingluck, before being appointed as PM in name had zero history of working for the good of the country and wouldn't be missed by anyone.

By the way, Chalerm, actual, currently serving Deputy Prime Minister, where is he? Haven't seen or heard from him since 4 weeks at least.

Edited October 27, 2011 by AleG

[Siam Simon]

I suppose the basic question is were the roles reversed and Abhisit was still the PM and Yingluk was leader of the opposition during the current crisis would the posters supporting Abhisit's choice to be away for a few days accept the same arguments defending Yingluk?

Or would there be a gleeful posting of pictures of her dining in a restaurant etc. along with comments such as " You can see how much she loves the Thai people during their hour of need"

Ah, political forums. You've got to love 'em.

If you completely ignore the tiny little nuance that Abhisit is not the current PM, yeah, I guess.

In the reverse case, Abhisit is PM and Yingluck goes on a weekend trip, nobody, but nobody would bat an eyelid; least of all because Yingluck, before being appointed as PM in name had zero history of working for the good of the country and wouldn't be missed by anyone.

By the way, Chalerm, actual, currently serving Deputy Prime Minister, where is he? Haven't seen or heard from him since 4 weeks at least.

Except that when PT were in Opposition, their leading politicians were endlessly ridiculed for all kinds of actions, both real and alleged, on this forum by the usual suspects. So let's carry on ignoring that tiny little nuance in the name of consistency and carry on flagging up the real and alleged shortfalls of the current Opposition. We are all being honest on this forum, right?

[nurofiend]

there's literally no point in trying to reason with some of ye

i mean, it's gone beyond a joke at this stage.

You can have an easy ride in these political discussions if you just subscribe to the political views of the gang of anti-Thaksin forum bullys and don't deviate from their organised party line. If you want to express your own opinions and have open-minded political debate, you are in for a rough ride because of the aforementioned forum bullys. I, personally, find it fun. But it's certainly not for the thin-cyberskinned.

true

Though i'm certainly not thin skinned, cyber or real life... i've shrugged of a few immature trolling attempts here without lowering myself to getting into a slagging match, it doesn't get a rise out of me no matter how hard some will try

it's not about not being able for it, or finding it a rough ride in the slightest... or that i feel any bit of intimidation from some of the 'wannabe keyboard bully's', who feel a sense of worth by tag-teaming against people with different views

random anon posters on an internet forum don't intimidate me, trust me...

and i usually do find it funny, it's just this thread in particular show's there is literally no reasoning with them... no open-mindedness and blatant bias.

it's just so tediously boring reading the same recycled nonsense at this stage.

the comments are a little too 'groundhog day' for me.

i still plan to post here, but i'll save it for the very small few, who at least seem partially open to some objective debate.

[siampolee]

We are all being honest on this forum, right?

Unlike the current government and their puppet master.

[nurofiend]

We are all being honest on this forum, right?

Unlike the current government and their puppet master.

i'm sure i heard that line somewhere before

[mca]

We are all being honest on this forum, right?

Unlike the current government and their puppet master.

i'm sure i heard that line somewhere before

Can anybody remember the scene from " There's Something About Mary " where Ben Stiller gets his family jewels caught in his zipper and as he's being carried to the ambulance Mary's mentally retarded brother is chanting " He was masturbating! He was masturbating!" incessantly.

No real reason for me to bring that up whatsoever. Just reminiscing.....

[whybother]

Except that when PT were in Opposition, their leading politicians were endlessly ridiculed for all kinds of actions, both real and alleged, on this forum by the usual suspects. So let's carry on ignoring that tiny little nuance in the name of consistency and carry on flagging up the real and alleged shortfalls of the current Opposition. We are all being honest on this forum, right?

When PT were in opposition, their politicians were usually ridiculed for their "political" actions. And their supporters on this forum often defended them.

Of course, there were often cases where there was very little defense offered. A good example of that is the "PTP/Thaksin banners on donated goods" thread.