Thai Students (Boys) Sexually Harassing Me (Foreign Woman Teacher)

[teacher17]

I work at a school in southern Thailand (won't mention exactly where,) and I have been having numerous issues with 4 boys in my M. 3 class (particularly 2 boys). I am the first falang woman to teach at this school and I am also the only falang teacher. There are filipino teachers who work here as well. Well, to cut to the chase, the 14 year old boys in one of my classes are always disruptive in class and are very naughty. They're disrespectful to all the teachers and one of the boys was even shot by a fellow student. But things have gotten increasingly worse. They have began to sexually harass me. For example, the other day (outside of class,) one boy pointed to his friend (another boy's) crotch and said "teacher ow mai?" In English, as you probably know, this means "do you want this?" They did that 3 times in one day. Then, that same day, a different boy in my class touched/grabbed my arm (though not hard) 2 times even after I said stop the first time. He did it again today. No matter how I threaten them (even if I follow through on my threats,) they still misbehave.

I have told 2 Thai teachers about this already and they said they would talk with them and "hit them." I think they have been hit before and it doesn't change their attitude. The Thai teachers don't see it as a very big deal...but I am honestly very uncomfortable with those boys and I worry it will just escalate. They should have been kicked out by now, but the English department won't kick them out because of financial reasons and something about how they need a certain number of students in the English program. It's ridiculous. I realize this is Thailand, and I understand the culture is different (I have lived here for 2 years). I have never experienced something like this and am not sure what to do, especially if it continues. I have a feeling the Thai teachers care more about themselves than the safety of foreign teachers.

Has anyone experienced this? If so, what did you do about it? I could really use some good advice....

Thanks!

[somtampet]

My suggestion would be to threaten them with the police,they sound bad kids.The other option is maybeto warn the parents first,but again maybe that could lead to problems.Have u been to the head or just spoken with other teachers

[saintofsilence]

Why put up with it can't you just leave and find a better school ?

[siampolee]

Just point to the boys crotch curl your little finger and laugh.Or as said find another school.

[Scott]

First, set a boundary between you and the boys. Do not go near enough to them that they can touch you easily. Keep a barrier, such as a desk between you and them. It takes time, but they will learn the limits. If need be, when they approach you with a notebook or something else, they can be respectful and kneel down.

Second, when they make an obscene gesture, get an admin person to immediately talk to them. Do not hesitate to talk to their parents. Be as polite to the parents as possible, but let them know you are concerned about their child. Sex is still a taboo subject in Thai families and most students are very fearful of their parents being told.

Also, in the instance when they make the remarks, ignore them completely. They would like for you to like them. A lack of response is rather hurtful to young men.

[teacher17]

Thanks, I appreciate the advice.

First of all, I can't really change to a different school at the moment for financial reasons...I don't exactly have a lot of money right now. Plus, it's not that great a time to find a teaching job right now. I just got my work permit and visa, which took forever. I do like the school...it's only those boys that are the problem.

I haven't gone to the headmaster yet...although I told the thai teachers they should tell the headmaster, but of course they haven't and probably won't. I can't talk to the boys parents because I never see their parents and don't know how I'd get in contact with them. Plus, my Thai is not good enough to explain everything to their parents anyway.

I do ignore their comments. I do not respond to them. But they still continue. I have already told the Thai teachers and I will see if their behavior changes at all...but I doubt it will. The boys KNOW they cannot get kicked out...that's the problem.

[lovelaos]

Tell the head teacher, insist on speaking to their parents with the boys present (get someone from the school to translate) They will be so embarrased by their parents' loss of face that you won't have any more issues.

Good luck

[Ijustwannateach]

This is a very common problem at Thai schools for boys of a certain age and female teachers, and as you have already discovered it is not taken extremely seriously as a part of school administrative culture. You're not going to see things escalate to the point where the boys would be thrown out (as they would in schools in many English speaking countries) or severely disciplined.

Scott's initial suggestions are important, as it is unacceptable for them even to touch you at all as an older, female, authority figure- ESPECIALLY in the south. If you don't feel inclined to use a switch on them yourself (and I don't blame you as it is technically illegal) you may ask for some other teacher to help, but that doesn't help you in the long run. Part of the problem is that the corporal punishment was used until very recently (and still is a part of mainstream practice) without being replaced by anything.

There are some options for responding depending on how much it bothers you. Like all bullies and other dysfunctional types, they want attention. One possibility is to engage with them in a way that rewards them with different attention for different behaviours, for example by giving them responsibilities and compliments in exchange for good performance. The offending behaviour might diminish at that point.

But as you point out, in the end, they can't be removed unless there is an actual criminal case against them, and that won't help anyone. I suggest reminding them of their place, reminding them that they are children, and trying to get them to respond to less negative forms of attention. It is unfortunately likely that these kinds of problems will crop up anywhere you teach, but the longer you have been teaching in one school the more 'status' you will have and the less they will dare to misbehave in this way.

[TPI]

Trang is desperate for a Farang English teacher, 30K a month, plus free accomodation plus free lunch...if you can teach maths or science then it's 45K..."Yantakwao school" Khun Yeow. As the man said point at their crotch, curl your little finger and laugh!...then, talk to the parents and mention how you will sue!

[kanderson]

This age (14 or so ) is hard for many boys. We used to drive some teachers crazy while other teachers had more respect - (or whatever).

Anyway - I'd think ignoring is the best.

Or you could try to learn some Thai .

Say - I don't understand - can you speak English.

(mai kouw jai - puut Engrit Mai ? )

I might even be up to teaching him the work penus - but probably not.

Quoi lek - mee ouw - then you might see the parents :-)

[teacher17]

Ijustwannateach, thanks. That's good advice. I could try complementing them on their good behavior more and see what happens. I will put up with the student's not listening in class and not doing their work, but being rude, disrespectful, and downright gross isn't okay with me.

These kids also come from problem families, which makes it even harder to control them and they probably haven't been brought up to be very respectful in the first place. I don't think curling my little finger...will help much. Granted, it might make the boys...insecure, haha, but I don't think it will do much to solve the problem. Luckily, I also only have to put up with the boys for 4 more months, and then they will probably go to a different school or be kicked out since the English program only goes up to M.3. Do most Thai schools not take harassment (especially sexual harassment) seriously? What does it take to lodge a criminal complaint??

[monekyface]

I would divide and conquer. Keep one boy after class, and tell him that you think highly of him and you don't think he would act badly unless he was being influenced by this other kid. Make him part of your team and use that to mess with his relationship with the other kid. As always, praising good behavior is a great way to start. On a day that he is "not SO bad" keep him after class for the chat. Tell him you appreciate his good manners today.

Once you have one boy on your side their little dynamic will crumble.

[saengsureeya]

I would divide and conquer. Keep one boy after class, and tell him that you think highly of him and you don't think he would act badly unless he was being influenced by this other kid. Make him part of your team and use that to mess with his relationship with the other kid. As always, praising good behavior is a great way to start. On a day that he is "not SO bad" keep him after class for the chat. Tell him you appreciate his good manners today.

Once you have one boy on your side their little dynamic will crumble.

Yes, keep one boy after class.......smart idea.

The teacher involved is in a position full of dillemma's and whatever she'll do it won't help.

In the end, the school-management will lay her off; easy solution!

Anyway, don't respond, not even with smart counter-remarks. It may be seen as harassment and the boys will be believed sooner than the teacher.

Ignore is the key-word here.

[Abduljabbar01]

Don’t tell me, you’ve never experienced this while you were in high school in your own country. Unless you were not the most attractive girl in the school. Just remember, it’s perfectly natural at that stage of life. It’s all in the hormones and they find you somewhat attractive.

I’ve seen this before even here in Bangkok. One school I worked at just hired a Russian lady to teach English. She was tall, light blond hair, well-built and was well stacked. She often complained about the boys just staring at her boobs throughout the class. I asked her how she felt about this, she didn’t mind. Since it happened a lot in her Russian high school and university. I further commented. “Maybe they will give you a ‘standing ovation’ when you leave the class.

[monekyface]

I disagree that you are powerless in this situation. I think that a teacher is never powerless, and that is a key difference between what Saengsureeya advises and what I advise.

You have to understand a 14-year-old boy's point of view and you will understand his motivations. He doesn't taunt you because he wants to be ignored; he taunts you because he wants your attention. If you give him your attention you will have power. In fact, you will have far more power by giving him 1-to-1 attention than you do in a classroom setting with other boys harassing you.

[Scott]

I think we will focus on the problem presented by the OP.

Students behaving in a disrespectful manner is not acceptable. Thai culture puts a great deal of emphasis on respect. This situation is counterproductive to both the teacher and the students.

[monekyface]

Abduljabbar01 and I agree that these boys have an overwhelming amount of testosterone at this age, and it is natural to want attention from an attractive female. You just need to teach them that there are appropriate (read 'effective') ways to get attention and there are inappropriate ('ineffective') ways to get it. They want your attention badly, so give it to them for good things that they do.

[Scott]

One off-topic post has been deleted. This sub-forum is for teachers. Trolls aren't welcomed. Unless you have a constructive remark, you can expect your comment to be deleted and a formal warning issued.

[teacher17]

Okay...for those of you who think it is acceptable and typical teenage behavior, I beg to differ. Yes, I do understand where 14 year old boys are coming from, but does that give them an excuse to do something like harass me or another student? Why does it matter if it happened to me in school before? Sure, it has. But I am a teacher and the students should respect that. And being alone after class with these students...not exactly something I want to do. If boys want to look, they can. But what they have done is way beyond what is acceptable. I still don't know if the teacher's have said anything to them and I haven't seen the boys in a couple of days because we have been having loy kratong celebrations at the school.

[Scott]

Teacher 17, it is these young boys that have the problem, not you, per se. They are impressionable and are forming certain ideas and opinions about women and sex. Your part, as a teacher, is to instill the values that the society has set out as important and in Thailand you keep your hands off women. The ones you are free to touch are in a different profession. They have some very misguided opinions about Western women in particular.

Again, boundaries are important as is a plan of action. We've had a few female (and male teachers) who have experienced behavior that is out of their comfort zone. I usually get the parents number from the office and in one case I found a young man's phone and found his mother's number. I wrote it down and said is this your mother's number? He responded that it was. I then told him his actions were not acceptable and I was very explicit about his actions. This was done with his classmates as well--individually, then I spoke to them as a group and told them any further instances and I would call their parents. Appropriate behavior was explained and they were told what they could/not do. The teacher was brought in and they had to kneel and apologize for their action.

My position is administrative, so they know I can do what I say. She was treated with a high degree of respect after that.

The kids were scared to death of having a discussion of sex in front of their parents.

Best of luck and keep us informed.

[ScubaBuddha]

<snip>

I might even be up to teaching him the work penus - but probably not.

<snip>

I am intensely curious as to what this means.

[ludditeman]

Schoolboys touching a teacher of any sex is completely unacceptable, especially in Thai society where male/female interaction in public is frowned upon.

This has now reached the point where your not acting will be placing yourself in physical danger from the youngsters.

You should immediately contact the headmaster and insist these boys are removed from your class.

You must clearly tell the headmaster you will not be teaching any classes with these boys present.

You might also consider making a complaint to the police and giving the boys names, so they know there is a problem.

You must back this up by walking out of any class they appear in.

Walk away from the job if you have to.

Gang rape is not pleasant, allegations of you acting improperly with the boys would also not be desirable.

PS

In a UK school these boys would have already been expelled, other schools would not take them in.

Edited November 8, 2011 by ludditeman

[Xangsamhua]

OK, so 14 year-old boys have high testosterone levels, but it seems all the other boys manage to behave within acceptable boundaries except for these four. These guys are way out of line and something has to be done to get them back in line and keep them there.

I'd try to avoid ultimatums, however, (e.g. I will not teach that class while they're in there) unless you know you can enforce them and that they don't create a win-lose situation that could bring reprisals of some kind.

The threat of administrative action such as Scott has advised, which is clearly within the disciplinary procedures of the school and which is normally effective (i.e. the threat to contact the parents), seems the way to go. If the school won't back you on this, I think a move at the end of the school year is definitely in order.

I know in my school that our director would simply not tolerate such behaviour as you've described and he would either speak to the parents himself or fully support an administrator who did so.

[saintofsilence]

If They are anything like these kids don't waste your time trying to change them.

The members of the KB (Kabotmuangtong) Club are, according to a group of teachers, school truants who flout the law and teach other children how to misbehave and become potential career crimininals.

When kids are in school we can control them,'' said one Thalang teacher. ''But these youngsters are out of hand and running wild on Phuket. We can't control them.''

Edited November 8, 2011 by saintofsilence

[sbk]

A man touching a woman is not acceptable and these boys know it, apart from Scott' suggestions, one thing you must do is to show that you understand they have broken a taboo. I had a drunk guy touch my arm on the boat from the mainland once, I sat up very straight, and in an extremely offended voice said, very loudly in Thai, WHAT are you doing? He immediately backed off, waied me and ran off before my husband could come back to hunt him down and beat the crap out of him.

So, make sure if one of them touches you again you make it very very clear in a loud voice that you are extremely offended and they have done something unacceptable.

I can't imagine the head teacher would allow this kind of thing, dont bother with fellow teachers- go straight to the authority in charge.

[Boo]

Just asked my husband about this, teaching is something I might consider in the future, so gave him your scenario & said what should I do if it ever happened.

His advice, as soon as any inappropriate comments then, as sbk said, express disgust then either send out of the room or make them kneel for the remainder of the class, an apology must be given at the end of the class & then report the incident immediately to the head.

If one of them touches you, then shout in a strong voice that touching you is not acceptable then take him to the headmaster to be punished. Touching is a very clear line than should not be crossed. The head or admin of the school MUST deal with that.

Thai teachers will not put up with it & if you are seen as a push over they will escalate their actions. If the school does nothing then tell them you plan to make a police report as you do not feel safe & want it on record that nothing has been done to control these children.

If still no action, then tbh I wouldn't stay where my safety was so ignored & where clearly no one, including teaching staff had any respect for me either.

good luck.

[Napat9]

My suggestions are;

Learn to speak and understand Thai. Make this your #1 priority every free moment you make for yourself.

Understand how natural it is for boys at this age in this country to behave this way.

If possible, follow the boys after school with a Thai translator to talk with their parents directly when they come to pick up their child.

Understand you will never be seen or respected by a Thai as a Thai because you are not Thai... Speaking the language will help you gain a little more respect.

And finally, don't be a victim. We all play the strongest hand in creating our present circumstances. Try and see the big picture here... Stay positive, focus on what you really want to be doing with your students - with your life. We're never trapped into anything. If you're staying there it's because you want to. Opportunities abound. Don't wait for students, or cultures, or countries to change in order for you to be happy or you'll be waiting a long long time... Good luck! I hope things improve very soon, if not already.

[richard_smith237]

I'm not a teacher, my Father was a head teacher and has many stories...

One was of his young days when working in a highly underprivileged area.... One of the kids blew cigarette smoke in his face as he walked past. That kid got the caning of his life the next day at school.

Caning was legal then and its a shame some teachers have abused it and its now removed as I imagine it is a highly effective disciplinary tool when used correctly.

Kids such as those the Op described will only learn the hard way.

The Op (Female teacher) is in a very difficult position and has to evaluate how much this job is worth to her.

Two options:

One: Suck it up and move on, do your best to deal with the situation and hope the boys get bored, do your best to have them disciplined (which I doubt will do much to change their attitudes.

Two: (And I'm sure many will disagree with this): Next time it happens flat out walk up the kid and punch is lights out and walk off. You can guarantee that this won't occur again from the same kid or any other student. BUT... how the school deals with this is another issue.. Life will either become much easier, or you may find yourself being disciplined.

[user82374298374]

What does it take to lodge a criminal complaint??

You are in Asia, where the police are just another gang. You do *not* want to involve the police; *you* will be the one who winds up being investigated, and believe me, they'll 'find' *something*, then want you to bribe them in order to make the problem disappear.

If you go to the parents, you will make enemies of them and they will try and cause problems for you at the school - accuse you of being a paedophile, et. al. They may even do things like slash your tires and/or physically attack you.

If you to go to the headmaster, you will cause both him and the Thai teachers to lose face - the headmaster because he obviously isn't in control of his school, and the Thai teachers because they couldn't solve the problem themselves, nor did they report the issue to the headmaster. They will find some excuse to get rid of you quickly, and you'll be out of a job with a bad reference as a 'troublemaker'.

Ignore it. You're in a Third World country full of ignorant, crude peasants, not in whatever politically-correct suburb you usually inhabit in whitebread America or the UK. If your delicate sensibilities are ruffled by such a minor thing, you're in the wrong profession in the wrong part of the world.

[Soboringtochooseaname]

Just leave or take it with fun even if it's not fun.

Tell them that you know how small is their willy and that you are not interested.

You tried to take the thing seriously and it didn't work, so change your attitude or leave even if you think that is not you who should leave... This is Thailand, love it or leave it, remember :-)