LivinginKata Posted January 17, 2012 Author Share Posted January 17, 2012 <snip> If they skimmed his card, why not clean the account out???? Several transactions, one after the other, until either a daily limit has been reached, there are insufficient funds, or the owner has cancelled the card. THIS IS WHAT THESE CRIMINALS NORMALLY DO. I you read what I posted you will see that's exactly what happened, 20,000 then 20,000 then 10,000 same day reaching the max daily limit, luckily i noticed and cancelled the card, and withdrew most of the money left just to be on the safe side. Why it took over a week before they acted I just don't know. Maybe they had to make a clone card ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessplayer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Lik, the reason why many members in this thread continue to post lengthy posts or replies to you is because you give the impression that you are not clear what is happening. For instance, you keep emphasising that the bank or police refuse to show you the CCTV of the ATM where it was withdrawn. However, by now it should be very clear it was a simple case of skimming, via the method posted. Why do you need to see the CCTV? So I guess case closed? Just wait if the police can catch the suspects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 <snip> If they skimmed his card, why not clean the account out???? Several transactions, one after the other, until either a daily limit has been reached, there are insufficient funds, or the owner has cancelled the card. THIS IS WHAT THESE CRIMINALS NORMALLY DO. I you read what I posted you will see that's exactly what happened, 20,000 then 20,000 then 10,000 same day reaching the max daily limit, luckily i noticed and cancelled the card, and withdrew most of the money left just to be on the safe side. Why it took over a week before they acted I just don't know. Maybe they had to make a clone card ?? Ok. I stand corrected, but it is very unusual this happened 1 week later, also, what normally happens, is the criminal doesn't know when the owner has cancelled the card, so, they have another go the next day. Eventually, after the owner reports the unauthorised transactions to the bank, the next time the card is used, the ATM retains the card and takes a photo, although most ATM's photograph every transaction, but definately the transactions where the card has been captured. Of course, the criminal is wearing a disguise when using the ATM. The experienced ones do the withdrawls to the maximum limit at 11:50pm and then start withdrawing again just after midnight. So, basically 2 days of maximum withdrawal limit in 20 minutes. Even then, they still try again the next day until the maximum limit is reached, there are insufficient funds, or the ATM takes the card. Making the clone card takes minutes. It's not a long process. Why are the bank and the police not forthcoming with some more information for you? Especially, the bank. They know which bank's ATM was used and they know where, and when. Maybe the skimmers were flying out that day, so, run a lot of cards through that they have been saving up and fly on to the next country to do the same and just keep traveling and partying on stolen money. Anyway, a few things didn't follow the normal MO of this scam, which alerted me to other possibilities, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 must be a hard life considering all these potential scams every single time you want to do something of course I let my CC out of sight when paying in restaurants or wherever or online, do you walk around with the cashier or follow the datastream? as for a bank employee scamming LiK, how would that take place without card and PIN? records show an atm withdrawel, even in which atm machine as for internett banking, TH banks are not considered safe, so should be used for accounts with low balance only and my ATM accounts I try to keep below a million baht balance, and have just reduced dayly withdrawel limit to 100k baht No issues during 9 years of fulltime living here as I am sure neither will LiK have anymore, as lesson learned It's not a hard life, they are just basics. Why do you think they invented that little handheld wireless EFTPOS machines that they bring to your restaurant table when it comes time to pay? Waiter/waitresses were writing card numbers down and going shopping online, skimming the card or selling the numbers to criminal gangs. Not just Thailand, globally. The bank and/or police will not show documents to LIK setting out which bank's ATM was used, where and when. If I was LIK, I would like to know WHY???? The member of staff he reported it to COULD HAVE done an over the counter transfer knowing full well LIK is going to blame the skimmers. I admit, not very likely, but possible. That's all I have ever said, it's possible. They don't need a clone card or PIN. At the very least, he should try to find out what is a CSN Code. I've never heard of it. I know Thai online banks are not safe. I rarely view my Thai online bank but use the online bank from my own country frequently. I have attached a link for you. You may like to pay particular notice to the third paragraph and to point number one, and note that it is "point number one" for a reason. It's been well know for a long time. It's all over the internet, but I found this one in about 15 seconds. http://www.scambuste...tCardFraud.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's not a hard life, they are just basics. Why do you think they invented that little handheld wireless EFTPOS machines that they bring to your restaurant table when it comes time to pay? Waiter/waitresses were writing card numbers down and going shopping online, skimming the card or selling the numbers to criminal gangs. Not just Thailand, globally. The bank and/or police will not show documents to LIK setting out which bank's ATM was used, where and when. If I was LIK, I would like to know WHY???? The member of staff he reported it to COULD HAVE done an over the counter transfer knowing full well LIK is going to blame the skimmers. I admit, not very likely, but possible. That's all I have ever said, it's possible. They don't need a clone card or PIN. At the very least, he should try to find out what is a CSN Code. I've never heard of it. I know Thai online banks are not safe. I rarely view my Thai online bank but use the online bank from my own country frequently. I have attached a link for you. You may like to pay particular notice to the third paragraph and to point number one, and note that it is "point number one" for a reason. It's been well know for a long time. It's all over the internet, but I found this one in about 15 seconds. http://www.scambuste...tCardFraud.html Had to look it up, but CSN seems to be atm withdrawel in another banks atm kinda makes bank employees fraud rather difficult as it takes card(or clone card) and PIN I use my TH CC approx 30-40 times a month, and sure dont follow it to cashier in petrolpump or restaurants, and still havent been charged for something I havent purchased. Had TH CC for 8 years now. Risky life, I know, but comfy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterocket Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Amex, Visa and Mastercard are all covered for fraud. If i use any of these cards and someone takes money from them i don't really care to be honest. I just tell the relevant company that i didnt authorize the transaction. they then have to prove that I did, if they cannot (which they cant) then the money gets returned. Since the money (or credit) on credit cards doesn't actually belong to the card holder it is their responsibility to sort it out. Thats why it's always better to buy on credit card if possible. well it's what i do anyhow. I've never seen any issue with online banking wither, the company i work for here does 100's of transactions daily online and I don't know of once that we have had any security issue. Myself i have also since the dawn of online banking never had an online banking breach. The thought of dragging myself into a bank and standing in a 30 minute queue every time i want to do a transaction seems pretty archaic to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessplayer Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 A weeks wait is nothing. They could have done it so that others may not suspect them. In a current big skimming in Singapore, the crooks waited more than a month before the withdrawal. Check it out: http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC120107-0000058/Evidence-points-to-card-skimming-in-DBS-ATM-fraud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's not a hard life, they are just basics. Why do you think they invented that little handheld wireless EFTPOS machines that they bring to your restaurant table when it comes time to pay? Waiter/waitresses were writing card numbers down and going shopping online, skimming the card or selling the numbers to criminal gangs. Not just Thailand, globally. The bank and/or police will not show documents to LIK setting out which bank's ATM was used, where and when. If I was LIK, I would like to know WHY???? The member of staff he reported it to COULD HAVE done an over the counter transfer knowing full well LIK is going to blame the skimmers. I admit, not very likely, but possible. That's all I have ever said, it's possible. They don't need a clone card or PIN. At the very least, he should try to find out what is a CSN Code. I've never heard of it. I know Thai online banks are not safe. I rarely view my Thai online bank but use the online bank from my own country frequently. I have attached a link for you. You may like to pay particular notice to the third paragraph and to point number one, and note that it is "point number one" for a reason. It's been well know for a long time. It's all over the internet, but I found this one in about 15 seconds. http://www.scambuste...tCardFraud.html Had to look it up, but CSN seems to be atm withdrawel in another banks atm kinda makes bank employees fraud rather difficult as it takes card(or clone card) and PIN I use my TH CC approx 30-40 times a month, and sure dont follow it to cashier in petrolpump or restaurants, and still havent been charged for something I havent purchased. Had TH CC for 8 years now. Risky life, I know, but comfy No problem, I now accept that the card was skimmed, however, the information about the ATM use was not known when I first posted. Based on your information, the card was skimmed and the bank teller is in the clear. KBB, you are taking a risk the way you use your card. I'm surprised you have not been robbed. Your luck can't last forever. How many amulets do you wear? :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Amex, Visa and Mastercard are all covered for fraud. If i use any of these cards and someone takes money from them i don't really care to be honest. I just tell the relevant company that i didnt authorize the transaction. they then have to prove that I did, if they cannot (which they cant) then the money gets returned. Since the money (or credit) on credit cards doesn't actually belong to the card holder it is their responsibility to sort it out. Thats why it's always better to buy on credit card if possible. well it's what i do anyhow. I've never seen any issue with online banking wither, the company i work for here does 100's of transactions daily online and I don't know of once that we have had any security issue. Myself i have also since the dawn of online banking never had an online banking breach. The thought of dragging myself into a bank and standing in a 30 minute queue every time i want to do a transaction seems pretty archaic to me. I'm aware the bank will refund you, but I believe the investigation and refund takes about 6 weeks. That may pose a problem to someone who had all their money in only one account. Edited January 17, 2012 by NamKangMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 It's not a hard life, they are just basics. Why do you think they invented that little handheld wireless EFTPOS machines that they bring to your restaurant table when it comes time to pay? Waiter/waitresses were writing card numbers down and going shopping online, skimming the card or selling the numbers to criminal gangs. Not just Thailand, globally. The bank and/or police will not show documents to LIK setting out which bank's ATM was used, where and when. If I was LIK, I would like to know WHY???? The member of staff he reported it to COULD HAVE done an over the counter transfer knowing full well LIK is going to blame the skimmers. I admit, not very likely, but possible. That's all I have ever said, it's possible. They don't need a clone card or PIN. At the very least, he should try to find out what is a CSN Code. I've never heard of it. I know Thai online banks are not safe. I rarely view my Thai online bank but use the online bank from my own country frequently. I have attached a link for you. You may like to pay particular notice to the third paragraph and to point number one, and note that it is "point number one" for a reason. It's been well know for a long time. It's all over the internet, but I found this one in about 15 seconds. http://www.scambuste...tCardFraud.html Had to look it up, but CSN seems to be atm withdrawel in another banks atm kinda makes bank employees fraud rather difficult as it takes card(or clone card) and PIN I use my TH CC approx 30-40 times a month, and sure dont follow it to cashier in petrolpump or restaurants, and still havent been charged for something I havent purchased. Had TH CC for 8 years now. Risky life, I know, but comfy No problem, I now accept that the card was skimmed, however, the information about the ATM use was not known when I first posted. Based on your information, the card was skimmed and the bank teller is in the clear. KBB, you are taking a risk the way you use your card. I'm surprised you have not been robbed. Your luck can't last forever. How many amulets do you wear? past 3 decades my other CCs have been charged numerous times all over the world for items/services I have not purchased, in other words fraud, but my TH CCs have only been used in TH, and no fraud for 8 years. Visa TH is pretty advanced, if I use my TH CC at a user point previous reported for fraud, I recieve a sms or phone call asking if my CC is used by me No amulets, no watch, no gold, no rings, no wallet, just keys, cash and card in pocket, I am a beachbum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmitch Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Sorry to reopen this old thread but the farang conman is back. Same area, Bangkok Bank in the Karon Plaza area. Same method. After a foreigner draws some cash, the conman, wearing a white motorcycle helmet in this instance, approaches the ATM customer who has just drawn out some cash and gives him 1000 baht stating he left it in the machine. Meantime the skimmer is inserted into the machine and he suggests the customer check his balance straight away. The conman apparently has a Mediterranean look. Fortunately my guest was smart enough to just take the money, say thank you and disappear, but the same customer went to buy some fruit a few minutes ago and saw the same guy play the same trick. I went for a look earlier as well but of course saw nothing. Anyway, just a heads up to anyone in the vicinity to be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surangw Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 take the $1k and walk away, see how far you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob7 Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Frech accent? Maybe this guy? http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/articles/2011/article11154.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmitch Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 take the $1k and walk away, see how far you get. My guest took the 1000 baht, said thank you, and walked back to the guesthouse 1000 baht better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paangjang Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Exactly the same thing happened to my business partner in Patong. Exactly the same thing. Two French guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassdude007 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 The Kisikorn atm card sms feature is a good security feature,,, sends me an sms alert when ever the card is used.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted December 17, 2012 Author Share Posted December 17, 2012 It was a French guy that scammed me, but not the one in the photo. My guy had fair hair and had a more friendly look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob7 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) It was a French guy that scammed me, but not the one in the photo. My guy had fair hair and had a more friendly look. First here the link to the 'news', I posted the picture link, by accident: http://www.phuketgaz...ticle11154.html So maybe 'yours' is "but his alleged accomplice managed to flee on foot." Or check with the police, if maybe these guys have been involved! http://www.phuketgaz...mers-19351.html (on these 'sweet' Phuket online 'news' are pictures of the two lads) Question: what makes the Kasikorn so 'attractive'? Edited December 17, 2012 by noob7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glassdude007 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Question: what makes the Kasikorn so 'attractive'? Well for me its a good security feature .. to know if my card is being used by sombody else without me knowing about it as soon as possible.. I/E the skimmer scammer guy using my card info after he gets it...i guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob7 Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 Question: what makes the Kasikorn so 'attractive'? Well for me its a good security feature .. to know if my card is being used by sombody else without me knowing about it as soon as possible.. I/E the skimmer scammer guy using my card info after he gets it...i guess... SMS feature has SCM (p.ex.), also. My question wasn't meant this way. My fault. I mean: The latest reports about scams, that I did read about: Kasikorn, Kasikorn, Kasikorn! And "Karon, Karon" (Kata?) What I not really understand, in case, someone with a Thai-ATM card has a bad feeling: Why not change the PIN, at the very next ATM? Or in a Bank, as soon, as possible? That's a feature,I like very much, here in Thailand, in Europe they keep telling, mostly: Not possible, onetime thing! "Change your PIN frequently". It pops up every know and then, at the ATM screen, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hansgruber Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 I want to be confronted by a scammer and steal his 1000 baht. I could make a living follwing these guys from location to location daily. Scam the scammers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenBravo Posted December 17, 2012 Share Posted December 17, 2012 A bit off topic, but scamming the scammers reminded of this web-site:- http://listverse.com/2010/09/11/10-great-scam-baiting-operations/ If you've got some free time, fun to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4evermaat Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 take the $1k and walk away, see how far you get. My guest took the 1000 baht, said thank you, and walked back to the guesthouse 1000 baht better off. I wonder what the ratio is? the amount of bills you give out vs the amount of successful heists. "The second best time to plant a tree is today" sent from TV android app (Galaxy Cooper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissChris Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 A bit off topic, but scamming the scammers reminded of this web-site:- http://listverse.com...ing-operations/ If you've got some free time, fun to read. lmao thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NomadJoe Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 One commenter on the PG linked asked why PG doesn't provide larger, clear pictures of the scamming equipment used so we can more easily tell if there is one attached to the ATM we are using. I was kinda wondering the same thing. So I Googled it and now I think it's because there is no point to posting a picture because the skimmers are so sophisticated that unless you use the same ATM everyday, there is no way to tell the difference, especially when you can go to 3 different branches of the same bank and encounter 3 different types of ATM's. I bet these things are discovered on ATMS by staff everyday, but the banks would never reveal that info. Be interesting to talk to bank staff to get the real skinny. Just look at these: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob7 Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 One commenter on the PG linked asked why PG doesn't provide larger, clear pictures of the scamming equipment used so we can more easily tell if there is one attached to the ATM we are using. I was kinda wondering the same thing. So I Googled it and now I think it's because there is no point to posting a picture because the skimmers are so sophisticated that unless you use the same ATM everyday, there is no way to tell the difference, especially when you can go to 3 different branches of the same bank and encounter 3 different types of ATM's. I bet these things are discovered on ATMS by staff everyday, but the banks would never reveal that info. Be interesting to talk to bank staff to get the real skinny. I think, the question is more, if the Kasikorn (in Karon?) is an easy to cover ATM. Anyone has a picture of the Kasikorn, that was the target for the last reported scams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nokbird Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 I don't get it, how this opens you up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted December 23, 2012 Author Share Posted December 23, 2012 I don't get it, how this opens you up. Maybe you should read this topic from the start. edit/// NKM has kindly explained it quite well - below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 (edited) I don't get it, how this opens you up. The part that covers the real ATM card slot is owned by the criminal. There is a data reader in it. This is known as the "skimmer." It is "camouflaged" to look like it is part of the ATM. It is not. It is a tool the criminal uses. You slide your ATM card into the slot, but it first passes through the data reader which captures the information stored on the magnetic strip on the back of your card. Then, there is a small camera that has been placed to see you enter your PIN number. This camera records the buttons you press when you enter your PIN. After you leave the ATM with your money, the criminal goes to the ATM and removes the data reader/skimmer and the camera. Usually a short distance away, sometimes in a car, they will have a laptop which can read the data from the skimmer. They will also have blank ATM cards. They enter the data from your card onto the magnetic strip of the blank card. They then upload the camera footage and view you pressing your PIN. Now, they go back to the ATM, usually wearing some form of disguise, and withdraw the maximum they can. This happens a lot at 11:55pm and then 12:05am - two withdrawals only minutes apart, but on different days, both for the maximum amount. This lessens the chance of the owner finding out after the first withdrawal. This way, they get in two withdrawals in quick time. Your ATM card should not be the card to your main account. It should be to an account with a small amount of funds for everyday use. You can top it up via internet banking or telephone banking. The skimmer technology and ATM scams are always evolving. Always be vigilant when using an ATM, in any country. What I have just described to you is how the skimmers in the photos work. The OP describes a variation of skimming where the criminal holds the skimmer in his hand, or quickly attaches the skimmer and camera and cons you into trusting him with your card, or pressures you to insert your card quickly, with the show money of 1000 baht. The result is the same. The data from your ATM card has been captured. Edited December 23, 2012 by NamKangMan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honoluabay Posted December 23, 2012 Share Posted December 23, 2012 Just a question, but can we post the bank's in suspicion so we have a running forum warning TV guest and others? Sent from my A200 using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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