Statelessness In Chiangrai

[Joel Barlow]

My mother-in-law and two of her children who live with me remain stateless, although I know quite well that the 8 year old was born in Thailand (having paid at the hospital for what was necessary to keep him alive).

So I found this article interesting: http://www.trust.org/alertnet/blogs/asia-views/how-dna-is-helping-young-stateless-thais-get-citizenship/

[my friend I]

Thailand is signed up to some charter about everyone must have a state etc but very little gets done. Even last year there was a seminar in CR that covered some of that.

My wife was born in Thai, looks Thai, speaks Thai but couldn't get Thai I.D..

She has now become a farang. Took less time & got a result.

[brianmarinus]

Thailand is signed up to some charter about everyone must have a state etc but very little gets done. Even last year there was a seminar in CR that covered some of that.

My wife was born in Thai, looks Thai, speaks Thai but couldn't get Thai I.D..

She has now become a farang. Took less time & got a result.

Sorry-have to ask:

How can she became a farang.?-As fare as I am informed, a farang is a foreigner whit white skin.

[chuang]

Thailand is signed up to some charter about everyone must have a state etc but very little gets done. Even last year there was a seminar in CR that covered some of that.

My wife was born in Thai, looks Thai, speaks Thai but couldn't get Thai I.D..

She has now become a farang. Took less time & got a result.

Sorry-have to ask:

How can she became a farang.?-As fare as I am informed, a farang is a foreigner whit white skin.

When one is accepted and given citizenship by a 'farang' country, one becomes a 'farang' :jap:

[Joel Barlow]

dunno about that - a US citizen of Thai ancestry is hardly a Farang; neither is a Chinese born in Europe!

or a Hmong born in New Zealand, or, well, maybe you get my drift...

then again, maybe should one of the above eat potatoes but never rice... well, I dunno

[sceadugenga]

Joe Gordon would like people to think he's a farang.

[rmacdon61]

I tease the wife when we are in Canada, she is now the "FARANG". I always thot it meant foreigner? They seem to use the term for African/Middle East and others?

[ludditeman]

I tease the wife when we are in Canada, she is now the "FARANG". I always thot it meant foreigner? They seem to use the term for African/Middle East and others?

It's a derogatory term for foreigners with white skin.

If your skin is another colour they use a different insult.

There is an entirely different set of insults (commonly used in newspapers) used for individual nationalities.

Australian - Jing Joe

German - Beer country

English - good person (??????)

etc.

[Joel Barlow]

Thanks 'ludditeman' for the chuckle. Any more?

Didn't know there were any others with Luddite inclinations here (or that anyone even knew what it means)

English - good person (??????) - yup, "pu-dii Angrit", from before soccer hooligans and others like them could afford to get here...

Not only does a Farang have white skin, but does not ear rice at every meal. It comes from the same root as Frank, so either French, German

or Viking (like the Lords of London)

[sceadugenga]

I agree with Joel, (surprise surprise) that it comes from Frank , from the Franks or French, which the Saracens used as a general term for all Europeans during the Crusades.

I like the theory that they took it east with them where it became ferenghi in places like Afghanistan and finally farang in Thailand.

Edited December 20, 2011 by sceadugenga

[Joel Barlow]

Not really a theory anymore, if one accepts Linguistics as a science. Whether much about royalty here descends from mountain people from west of Afghanistan,

Darius, Cambysus and all (invaders of Persia, not locals), is in much greater dispute, but I quite agree with Jit Phumisak (deceased under circumstances

which could be much clearer, had politicians ever any integrity) that the Khom rulers of Angkor (invaders, not locals) got their name from that of Cambysus (thought to have died in a sand-storm in Libya, along with a whole army). Wow, can I do long sentences, or what?

Edited December 20, 2011 by Joel Barlow

[sceadugenga]

Yes.

[rmacdon61]

From Wikipedia

Farang (Thai: ฝรั่ง [faràŋ]), also spelled falang, is the generic Thai word for a Westerner. A general term for foreigners is Thai: คนต่างประเทศ khon tang prathet ('people from other countries'). There is no expressly negative or positive implication in the word itself. However when it is used along with other words, it can bring a negative meaning depending on the context.

I'd say same as farang using less then "endearing" terms for a thai? I often use the term Farang when referring to "a farang friend" or a "thai friend" to the wife. I would have to guess that it depends on where you are standing, the tone and look of the person saying it. My church refers to other parishioners like myself as farang openly so I assume not a bad thing?

I am certainly not going to lose sleep over it. Them that like me, like me, them that don't, well suck it up Susie HaHaHa.

[Limbo]

Not only does a Farang have white skin, but does not ear rice at every meal. It comes from the same root as Frank, so either French, German

or Viking (like the Lords of London)

It might be very well possible and I believe that it also is the 'official'

explanation that the origine of the word lies in 'farangi' thus supporting

Macdon61's suggestion that the Middle East theory might hold the truth.

Others think that the special guard of 'tall man' from Europe that served

(next to Siamese female troops) as palace guards at the times of King Rama V

could have been the original ones. This interpretation is in line with Joel's

idea. Compare them to the Swiss Guard of the Vatican or 'die lange Kerle'

guarding Schloss Schwanstein (the real one, not the Disney copy). Though the

Swiss Guard counts all nationalities, they are still referred to as 'Suisses'.

A theory that might appeal to many foreigners is the interpretation of

the word 'frank' in its old meaning of 'free', in the sense of being above

the law. Western countries had their own courts of justice in Thailand and

westerners could therefore not be subject to Thai justice (extraterrial

rights, that mostly ended during the reign of the Great King Rama V).

Sounds nice, but where would the Siamese have got the word 'Frank' from?

Funny thing is, that long before, going back to Ayutthaya times, white skinned

foreigners were called 'wilanda', which is supposed to be a rather dubious

pronunciation of the old Dutch word 'Verenigde'. After King Narai passed away

in 1688 the new King Petracha only allowed the traders of the Dutch 'Vereenigde

Oostindische Compagnie' to do business in Thailand, so anybody with a white face

was considered to be a 'vereenigde'. Even if you now, three hundred years later

ask a Thai person to read this word from a paper you still distantly hear a sound

that could be understood as 'wilanda'.

The Thai word for foreigner is 'tang chat', eating potatoes or not, so the word

'farang' is a racial term. As the white minority of immigrants is growing in

Thailand it might be very well so that it will develop a derogatory association

in the future. Compare it with non-white immigrants in western countries: As long

as they lived unnoticed there was no problem, but when their population grew

But as Ludditeman already pointed out: It is already experienced by some as derogatory,

even if the people using the word would not realize it. And as the word nowadays also

is used by foreigners to refer to themselves one cannot complain about it.

The derogatory moment might be in the feeling of being racially 'compartmentalized',

not being seen as an individual but as 'something else with a different skin'.

Limbo

[Joel Barlow]

"The Thai word for foreigner is 'tang chat'" Khon tang chat maybe.

[thegovernor]

Thats the thing over here,its all bloody foreigners eveywhere you go,everywhere you look. the Gov......

[Mario2008]

Regarding Thai nationality for stateless people you might find this document interesting:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/20999732/Birth-Registration-and-Citizenship-in-Thailand (English)

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0016/001621/162153tha.pdf (Thai)

[DP25]

I tease the wife when we are in Canada, she is now the "FARANG". I always thot it meant foreigner? They seem to use the term for African/Middle East and others?

It's a derogatory term for foreigners with white skin.

If your skin is another colour they use a different insult.

There is an entirely different set of insults (commonly used in newspapers) used for individual nationalities.

Australian - Jing Joe

German - Beer country

English - good person (??????)

etc.

lol those phrases for various countries aren't even remotely insults

[dindong]

For the majority of Thai people the term Farang is not meant as a rude or insulting word, just the term they use to describe foreigners, especially one of a different skin colour.

I always laugh when my 3 year old is called Farang Noi.

[villagefarang]

Who cares about the origins of this word? In Hawaii I am a Haole, in Thailand I am a Farang, what is the big deal?

I don’t see the problem with the word Farang. Thais count things and describe things differently. They use qualifiers for everything they count and they refer to others with age appropriate titles like uncle, sister, brother, mother, father etc. or descriptive tags like fat, thin, tall, short, old, young and yes even Farang. Be offended if you wish but understand that by showing offense you are painting yourself in a bad light, not them.

[laosuwan]

From Wikipedia

Farang (Thai: ฝรั่ง [faràŋ]), also spelled falang, is the generic Thai word for a Westerner. A general term for foreigners is Thai: คนต่างประเทศ khon tang prathet ('people from other countries'). There is no expressly negative or positive implication in the word itself. However when it is used along with other words, it can bring a negative meaning depending on the context.

I'd say same as farang using less then "endearing" terms for a thai? I often use the term Farang when referring to "a farang friend" or a "thai friend" to the wife. I would have to guess that it depends on where you are standing, the tone and look of the person saying it. My church refers to other parishioners like myself as farang openly so I assume not a bad thing?

I am certainly not going to lose sleep over it. Them that like me, like me, them that don't, well suck it up Susie HaHaHa.

the context is this...the word Kon is omitted before farang. The inference is that the farang is an object, not a person. This is deeply ingrained and irreversible in the Thai mind.

[laosuwan]

For the majority of Thai people the term Farang is not meant as a rude or insulting word, just the term they use to describe foreigners, especially one of a different skin colour.

I always laugh when my 3 year old is called Farang Noi.

I would beg to differ. It is an insult but very, very subtle. You can know by the intonation as the word is said and by the ommission of kon (for people) before farang

i.e. kon thai...

farang

The subtlty revealed is that farang are considered objects rather than people. this is deeply ingrained by the chinese who carefully instill this thinking into the thai from early school days onwards because the chinese know that the westerners are the only ones here who can open the thai eyes to who really owns their country. have you never wondered how it is that thai have dissapeared almost completely from their news, movies and television to be replaced by chinese who are whiter than any westerner yet they dont even notice even while they spit out the word farang in their private conversation?

Sorry if this seems controversial but it is the product of my long observation.

[villagefarang]

[rmacdon61]

Canada is a melting pot for immigration, has been for decades. Other then my aboriginal brothers, what is a true Canadian? Other then immigrants, for me a canadian is a citizen. The federal government will only employ citizens as you have to have sworn allegiance to the Queen. You do so when you become a citizen. You don't have to, you can go home instead or stay an immigrant.

As language evolves people most often appreviate words in general use. A modern day word in NA is "disrespect" now commonly said as "dis". In Canada, people use a word "eh" which commonly means "you understand the contexted of the sentence I just spoke?" Canadians don't think you are stupid and wouldn't understand a simple sentence, just habit by some eh. Or maybe it is that strong accent they have!!!

Farang also means guava fruit, which thai enjoy, so maybe farand are good, or good to eat or just white like the fruit.

Now if you are in South Africa and a coloured walks up to you and say "hey whitey" did he just dis you?

I was on a Canadian forces base, by permission of a Lt. Commander (he was afro-canadian) whose name I failed to note. I was approached by military police and was asked what my business was and what permission I had for being there. Now as I said, I couldn't recall the Lt. Commanders name, and when pressed for this name, there are many Lt. C's on the base, so replied, he was the "black guy" Lt. Commander, as there not not many of this colour as Lt. C's. They knew him, phoned, confirmed my permission, gave me his name and we parted. OK not politically correct term "black guy" but I meant no disrespect.

2 thais talking, one says Hey I just sold my car". The 2nd thai says "to who?". 1st guys says "a man who is a tourist/immigrant/visitor/worker by permit, HaHa most likely will say a "farang" no dis intended............................... It's just easier to refer to someone you don't know and want to narrow down who it is by mentioning something that will identify them.

To quote VF does it really matter in world affairs today or was that "who gives a sh**"

Ditto VF (is that a politically correct reference to you?)

[sceadugenga]

I just like to keep it narrowed down to "them" and "me".

[Paul888]

I don't think many farang get offended at being called farang. I call us farang also and like dindong, I smile when people call my children farang noi.

[Joel Barlow]

The comment about "Khon Thai", "Khon Tang Pratet" and "Farang" seemed to me quite insightful.

Although Thais envy long noses, white skin, and Western "success" with materialism, they are in total denial about the resemblance of this to an "inferiority complex" - sadly.

Many are severely xenophobic (in a quite multi-cultural society, although that too goes unadmitted);

and, indeed, "Farang" is usually meant disparagingly. Of course, for decades now, most of us have failed to earn any respect...

Edited December 21, 2011 by Joel Barlow

[villagefarang]

and, indeed, "Farang" is not usually meant disparagingly...did someone mention inferiority complex?

Edited December 21, 2011 by villagefarang

[klikster]

I don't think many farang get offended at being called farang. I call us farang also and like dindong, I smile when people call my children farang noi.

Hearing someone refer to me as "farang" doesn't bother me. But when someone addresses me as "farang", s/he usually gets a glare -- then gets ignored.

[sceadugenga]

What about luk kreung... the "half children"... that sounds a bit offensive.