Buying A Pick-Up

[Sophon]

I apologize in advance for my somewhat long-winded post.

Sometime over the next few months I will be buying myself a pick-up. This will be the first vehicle I have ever owned, and since I also come from a "vehicle deprived" family my driving experience so far is limited to about 40,000 km done when on holiday in the U.S. As a result I have very limited knowledge about cars (read as "none"), which is why I am seeking advice amongst the more knowledgeable people here on the forum. When replying to my questions please feel free to "talk down" to me, as I really need things explained in layman's terms.

Buying new or used?

This is the biggest question, and I am really unsure about whether to buy new or used. I know that depreciation is slower here in Thailand than where most of us came from, but it doesn't change the fact that the vehicle still depreciates the most in the first few years. I have heard that Isuzu and Toyota depreciates slower than other brands, which is good if you are selling. But surely that also means that if you are buying used, you will get more for your money by buying one of the other brands, or am I wrong?

I am currently debating whether to:

Buy new

Buy a newer used car (2-4 years old)

Buy an older used car (5-8 years old)

I will probably only do about 10,000 km per year, and since I will also be buying land and building a house (up north) over the next couple of years, I don't want to spend more than about 700,000 baht. With this budget I will only be able to get a fairly basic model if buying new, and will probably have to forget about options like 4wd, 4 doors and maybe even automatic transmission. Buying used will allow me to get a better spec'ed model, and if buying an older pick-up I can even save a couple of hundred thousand baht at the same time.

However, my number one concern is reliability. Obviously an older pick-up will be less reliable than a new one - but how much?

Can I expect reasonable reliability from an up to 8 year old pick-up?

At what mileage (kilometerage - is that a word?) would you expect the problems to start mounting up?

I know that here in Thailand the actual distance a vehicle has travelled is not necessarily what it says on the odometer, and with my limited car knowledge in mind (again - none), I will have the vehicle checked out professionally before buying (any comments on TestCar or other such services?). I also know to be extra careful to avoid buying one of the flooded pick-ups.

I am currently leaning towards buying a used higher spec pick-up, but am quite ambivalent about whether to go for a newer or an older one.

Extended cab or 4 door?

We will probably be travelling two people in the pick-up at least 95% of the time, but on occasion my GF's sister or mother (or both) may come along too. So I don't want the standard cab, which leaves the extended cab and the 4 door models. I believe that technically you are not supposed to have passengers in the back of the extended cab, but are there in reality any problems with this (fines from the police, or problems with insurance in case of accidents)?

I know that a 4 door model costs approximately 10% more than the similar spec'ed extended cab version, and I believe the yearly road tax and insurance are also higher.

How much more is the yearly road tax for a 4 door pick-up compared to the extended cab?

How much more is first class insurance for a 4 door pick-up compared to the extended cab?

The extended cab will cover our basic needs, but it would be nice if the occasional passenger could travel in style and more importantly safely (I don't believe the extended cab has seat belts in the back). And the cargo bed in the 4 door model is also big enough for us, it just has to be able to accommodate 5-6 medium sized dogs. But it all depends on how much extra the 4 door model will cost me.

If buying new I will definitely go for the extended cab (because of my limited budget). If buying used I am currently leaning (slightly) towards buying a four door model, especially since most higher spec models for sale are four doors.

Automatic or manual transmission?

I haven't driven a manual for 32 years (back when taking my driver's license), and the added complication of having to shift with my left hand has me a little worried. I guess I could re-learn the skill, but with my limited driving experience I think it will be safer to focus all my attention on the traffic around me rather than having to shift gears. Or am I worrying too much about this?

But would I want to have automatic transmission if I end up buying an older car? Is AT just an expensive and inevitable repair waiting to happen, or is modern automatic transmissions basically as trouble free as manuals?

I am leaning strongly towards buying a pick-up with AT.

Engine size?

Most models come with two engine sizes, normally a 2.x model and a 3.x model. Since I seldom if ever will do over 120 km/h, I don't think I really need the extra power. Or is it also an issue going up and down hills (as mentioned I will be moving to northern Thailand)?

I assume that a smaller engine means better fuel economy, which would of course be nice (but really isn't that important given that I will only do about 10,000 km per year). But how much better fuel consumption would say a 2.5L engine have compared with a 3.0L engine?

I don't think this is an important consideration for me, but if going for a higher spec'ed used pick-up it seems they mostly come with the bigger engine.

2 or 4 wheel drive?

We will probably (we haven't bought the land yet) be living semi-rurally, and getting home could conceivably involve shorter distances on gravel or dirt roads. I will not go "off road" driving (at least not on purpose), so I don't think I have a real need for 4wd, but it would obviously be nice to have should the need arise. Or do dirt roads in the rainy season require 4wd to get you out of problems?

But (as with AT) do I want 4wd if going for an older, used car or is it just going to cost me in expensive repairs? If the four wheel drive breaks, am I likely to still be able to drive in 2wd mode? As I said in the beginning, I really know nothing about pick-ups.

I am currently undecided about this, but 4wd might be nice to have if it's reliable and trouble free - at least if buying a newer, used car (if buying new 4wd isn't within my budget anyway).

Standard or raised version?

Most brands have a special raised version of their pick-up:

Toyota Vigo Prerunner

Isuzu Dmax Hi-Lander

Nissan Navara Calibre

Mitsubishi Triton Plus

Mazda BT-50 Hi-Racer

Ford Ranger Hi-Rider

In addition the 4wd versions also seem to be raised despite them not bearing the special raised version name. What is the name of the raised version of the Chevrolet Colorado and the old Nissan Frontier?

I like the idea of the better overview of the traffic that (I imagine) a higher seating position gives, and the added ground clearance to help navigate pot holes also appeals to me. In addition I quite like the look of the raised versions, and for some brands (like the quirky Mitsubishi Triton) I find only the raised version appealing.

But what is the downside to driving a high-riding pick-up? I imagine that the risk of flipping over is (very slightly) increased because of the higher centre of gravity, but are there other thing to consider?

I am currently leaning strongly in the direction of buying a raised pick-up.

Carry-Boy canopy?

As previously mentioned the pick-up will among other things be used to transport our dogs. However, some of our dogs are quite stupid, stupid enough to possibly jump off the pick-up when stopped at a red light (or even when moving). So I will need something to provide them with shade as well as keeping them confined. I am thinking a Carry-Boy canopy would be the perfect choice, but I have a few questions:

How much do they cost (I have heard approximately 30,000 baht)?

Are they easy to remove and mount again by yourself, or is it basically a permanent fixture once it has been installed?

I have heard that a lid on the cargo bed increases fuel economy. Is this also the case for a canopy, or do they even influence fuel economy negatively?

I don't like the look of canopies with extra height, so would be going for one that is flush with the roof of the pick-up. If buying a used pick-up they often come with a canopy without this necessarily being reflected in the price (so basically free).

Any other thoughts about canopies or possible alternatives?

Bonus question for the experts (if anyone has had the stamina to read this far)

If buying used, any thoughts about models/years you would recommend, or models/years that should be avoided because they have known issues or are just bad value for money?

I appreciate any input you can give me, and thank you in advance for your comments.

Sophon

[transam]

After reading that lot l had to have a lay down . Only joking.

You seem to have done your homework and understand the written stuff. So my view is if you can buy new do so cos you get 3 year+ warranty. Virtually nothing here is scrapped, bad crashed stuff is repaired so could be a nightmare for you.

Two passengers in a two door are insured, four in a four door, two door road tax 2000+bht, four door 6800bht.

Driving here can be a nightmare as very little, in fact no sense is used so you must be on the ball 24/7 to avoid a problem. Your nearside mirror will become your best friend.

I have driven manual trucks in town and feel like a tractor and you will have a Popeye left leg. An auto is a dream on the Thai hustle and bustle roads and turns the ride into a different animal. Also the high rides are great for vision purposes and the off road use. 4x4 can be useful.

Of course these high end rides will be out of your price range BUT if you know a reliable guy who is selling a second hand one then l would go for it. Katabeachbum comes to mind as he keeps his Vigo 4x4 a couple of years and gets a new one . My Vigo 4x4 auto is in it's fifth year now and still drives like new, and forget about stability probs in a Vigo, it's the drivers that put them in the weeds. .

[Kwasaki]

Your buget may get you a Mitsubishi Triton that comes with CNG, if I remember correctly.

[guzzi850m2]

I agree with transam, try get auto and 4 door model and yes a used one IF you check it carefully.

The new Ranger should be very nice to drive according to different tests and very safe, but maybe outside your budget? Old one is dangerous in case of a crash, I think I read somewhere here?

You can check in classified here and bath sold for a used one owned by an expat which in many cases means the car has been better taken care of but not always.

[tutsiwarrior]

yeah...I'm looking for a new pick up too and I haven't bought a new car in over 25 years...most of the time I'm away at work so I'm looking at what's needed, family driving habits/requirements, etc to make a choice; need 4 door crew cab and an automatic as usually more than 4 passengers (crew cab) and the wife and step daughter will need to learn how to drive (automatic) and will also need a 'carry boy' canopy for the occasional family excursion/shopping orgy...

back in the early 90s I was given an Isuzu 'panther' to drive in Indonesia and it was well suited to the driving conditions and given the popularity of the D-Max Highlander in Thailand seems to me to be the way to go with the forthcoming purchase for our needs...

now, trying to decide whether paying in cash or a financing arrangement from the dealer...

Edited December 31, 2011 by tutsiwarrior

[wandrinstar]

I think you would be well advised to buy something thats for your needs. What Mode of Transport did the Dogs have before you came along ?.. A Jazz suits most folks needs.

[eddys]

I did this a few years ago and after looking at all the options and rip ofs I went to the Saturaday morning auctions and bought a good three year old Nissan Frontier (Navara in Aust) with 45000 Km on it for about 250,000 baht if I recall correctly. It was in good shape with a body kit and lift kit. I replaced the wheels and tryers with some good ones, replaced the shocks with good ones , put a bew carry boy on the back full service by Nissan , leather wheel and gear knob all up about 20,000 baht, cheap as chips. Great car (brakes are drum on back so be careful) I use it once a year for about 6000- 10000 km. Would like a bit more power (I drive a 600 Merc at home or a 928 Porsche) and the manual box needs better gearing but great cheap motoring and in the first trip a sedan (I nearly bought a three year old S500) would have floated away so the pick up was the right choice, throw all the luggage in the back, travel anywhere with the four of us , wish I could take it home as a 6th household vehicle.

Auto would be easier in BKK but still no issue sve yourself a lot of money and go to the auctions, if you know what you are looking at there are great deals (i've bought semi new bikes and cars for friends and family there now too many times). If you don't know what to look for take some one who does or whatch the dealers and bid a bit more, if it's not exactly what you wanted or expected sell it and make a profit. I could have sold my car many times and come out ahead.

Hope it helps

[mcdiver]

eddys

what auction are you talking about?

name, adress, link, other auctions?

[ignis]

Every 3 years buy a new pickup [it does very high km in the 3 years] always had the Isuzu D-max last being a 'Gold Series' Hi-Lander... No idea about the all new model, but from 2008 on the steering is weird, Many friends have or had different makes and models which have also driven.

March 2011 test drove all the makes, there was only one clear winner, Mazda BT 50 Hi-Racer+, 9 months on it is still a great pickup and a joy to drive.......

Friend has the 'New' Auto 4 door Nissan Navara Calibre, it is very nice but for the very bad fuel consumption, even the extra gear on the new model make little difference.... Next door bought a new 4dr Toyota Vigo Prerunner in November 2011, leather seats are nice but for me is all-fall to drive... The new Mitsubishi Triton Plus was OK, just the Mazda felt better on the road.

It is what you feel best in, OK your not going to do many km, and you have a budget, this = 2nd hand for an Auto, to find a fairly new model in Auto is more difficult...... Most Thais that buy an Auto is for private use they tend to not change there private cars very often...

Of the older fairly new pickups Ford and Mazda have the 1/2 door, so you can open the rear door on the Ext Cab... most of the new models now have this option or is stander-ed.

Carry-Boy canopy? NO unless you want fiberglass rubbish, I have had them in the past, handle breaks, struts fall apart, colour fads bad, My last D-Max and the new Mazda BT50 have the 'Sammitr' http://www.sammitr.com/en/products/products.aspx

Steel Canopy, metal handle in the bodywork not the glass appear much better quality, in the 3 years on the D-Max the colour did not fade, I paid 28,400 baht last May.

[tutsiwarrior]

Carry-Boy canopy? NO unless you want fiberglass rubbish, I have had them in the past, handle breaks, struts fall apart, colour fads bad, My last D-Max and the new Mazda BT50 have the 'Sammitr' http://www.sammitr.c...s/products.aspx

Steel Canopy, metal handle in the bodywork not the glass appear much better quality, in the 3 years on the D-Max the colour did not fade, I paid 28,400 baht last May.

but were the in-laws happy riding in the back?

(tutsi lounges in the front and passes his glass thru the canopy window and drawls: 'mix us another voddy will ye sweets? ta...)

but I'll haveta check it out as the sammitr canopies look nicer...if a bit heavier, I suppose...

Edited January 1, 2012 by tutsiwarrior

[tutsiwarrior]

raises a question regarding canopies...quicker and cheaper to order bed liner and canopy from the truck dealer as an extra? or a separate transaction with 'carry boy', etc...

[caphant]

Buying a truck given diesel efficiency/reliability and high ground clearence definately the most practical choice for LOS, id go with the triton or vigo if you arent considering the newer generation trucks as crash safety in the previous dmax/colorado, ford ranger/maz bt50 and nissan navara is pretty poor and likely to take a bite through your legs as shown in crash offset tests. Safety is an afterthought here in thailand and airbags are taxed luxuries so while the sales man in ford proudly states the outgoing ford focus has a 5 star safety rating he fails to attribute that score to the 6-8 airbags in european/american models not present in the LOS ones which have a mere 2 only in the top models, I love drive and own classic cars in thailand with a seatbelt being my best and only safety measure, but if i was to get a truck or was to buy a soul less a-b car id definately have safety in front of my mind.

[wandrinstar]

Ignis, im glad its not just me. I find all Toyota truck feel funny ,except the normal ride hight ones.Even the higher ride hight Mitsu G.T doesnt feel if its going to tumble over if you need to swerve.In fact Toyota Engineers should try one. But i open a Can of Worms. There are some who will now try to convice us for some reason a Pancake tips over the same as a Sauce Bottle. If you dont drive like a Prat on Public Highways ive never had any Traction Gizmoes kick in ever, even the ABS. The Nissan im sure is much heavier than most trucks , hence the small difference in fuel.

[phutoie2]

For some cost of parts/servicing can be an issue. Just had the Hilux Vigo truck serviced at my local dealer, price 1282 Baht for standard 10k km service.

Memo to self - this morning go out and check the tyre pressures, spotted the mechanic with the air gun in hand.

[Sophon]

Thanks to all for the replies so far.

Unless I receive new information to change my mind, I'm pretty sure I want AT and a high riding version. 4wd and 4 doors are both nice features but come at a price, for the latter not only the extra cost of buying the pick-up but also additional costs of owning (road tax 4-5,000 extra, am I correct that insurance is also more?).

If buying new I can just about get a Nissan Navarra King Cab GT Calibre LE AT if I stretch my budget a little, all other AT pick-ups seem to be out of my range. If buying used I have seen the following for sale:

675,000 baht - 2010 Chevrolet Colorado 3.0 LT Z71 4dr 4wd AT (claiming 52k km on odometer)

580,000 baht - 2009 Ford Ranger 2.5 XLT Wildtrack 4dr 2wd AT with Carryboy (claiming 76k km on odometer)

639,000 baht - 2008 Isuzu D-Max 3.0 VGS 4dr 4wd AT

589,000 baht - 2008 Isuzu D-Max 3.0 VGS Hi-Lander 4dr 2wd AT

649,000 baht - 2010 Nissan Navara 2.5 LE Calibre 4dr 2wd AT

Which seem to me as beter value than buying new. Notice that all the above examples are 4 door versions, it seems that the pickings in the used markets for AT 2dr pickups are a little slim. Any opinions on whether any of the above are good value for money?

If deciding for an older, used car I have found these examples:

498,000 baht - 2005 Chevrolet Colorado 3.0 LT Z71 4dr 4wd AT with Caryboy

459,000 baht - 2004 Isuzu D-Max 3.0 LS 4dr 4wd AT

569,000 baht - 2007 Isuzu D-Max 3.0 Hi-Lander 4dr 2wd AT (claiming 90k on the odometer)

Again all with 4 doors. I believe all the above examples come with 2 airbags.

I always heard that Toyota and Isuzu holds their value better than other brands, but from my own (limited) searches I find the best deals are for Chevrolet, Ford and to some extent also Isuzu (in that order). Mitsubishi Triton's on the other hand seem overpriced and very bad value for money if buying second hand.

How do the 2010 Chevrolet Colorado 3.0 LT Z71 4dr 4wd AT model compare with the 2008 Isuzu D-Max 3.0 VGS 4dr 4wd AT? I believe at the time both were the top model (or very close to it) for the respective brands.

Keep your comments coming, it's much appreciated.

Happy New Year

Sophon

[caphant]

as crash safety in the previous dmax/colorado, ford ranger/maz bt50 and nissan navara is pretty poor and likely to take a bite through your legs as shown in crash offset tests.

How do the 2010 Chevrolet Colorado 3.0 LT Z71 4dr 4wd AT model compare with the 2008 Isuzu D-Max 3.0 VGS 4dr 4wd AT? I believe at the time both were the top model (or very close to it) for the respective brands.

colorado is a rebadged dmax. regarding the engines and specs you can find those here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_D-Max Both the colorado/dmax and the navara are the only pre-2011 trucks I can drive confortably, though the triton and vigo are more rigid and would fare better in an accident.

[Sophon]

colorado is a rebadged dmax. regarding the engines and specs you can find those here: http://en.wikipedia....iki/Isuzu_D-Max Both the colorado/dmax and the navara are the only pre-2011 trucks I can drive confortably, though the triton and vigo are more rigid and would fare better in an accident.

Thanks for that. So basically the previous versions of the Colorado and the DMax are the same vehicles with the same engines, gear-boxes etc. with the differences limited to cosmetics?

Sophon

[ignis]

If you are looking at a 4 door why not look at the pickup estate by TR [a lot cheaper 2nd hand the the Isuzu MU-7]

Eg: ISUZU D-MAX ADVENTURE Sport 3.0 Ddi i-TEQ AT 2008.. 560,000 baht, Auto, leather seats etc.

well within your price bracket, or the Colorado Allroader

Edited January 1, 2012 by ignis

[katabeachbum]

using a 2 door for more than 2 people is presently not a problem, except on expressways where they are denied entry. lack of insurance is not a problem, unless an injured passenger claim you, you pay up to one million a head.

I would stay away from secondhand, unless you know the owner and pickups history.

New I would start at looking at crash safety. 2012 Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50, Vigo and Triton is ok. Have not seen any crashes with 2012 DMax/Colorado yet

be aware of the expensive insurance for Vigo, TH most stolen pickup

auto is a must, even for an ex pro driver like this beachbum. long truck like shifts, high compression kangaroo willing engine and heavy duty clutch is a no go. focus needs to be on traffic, not shifting and clutching, engineers have solved this for us

so my pick, based on OPs info and my brilliant advice, Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50 depending on which of your local dealers have a decent service/garage. 2,2 auto, 2 door and get a rearseat and seatbelts. Approx 700k baht

[bangkaew]

I bought a new nissan navara last year - 4 door, automatic 2x4.I set out to get a 2nd hand civic or something but a 94 civic was 250k and the navara was 800k. I chose to pay 150k and then 10k a month as it is only 3%interest a year. Works out at 300b a day plus oil every 10k km.

[ignis]

I bought a new nissan navara last year - 4 door, automatic 2x4.

Friend has the 'New' Auto 4 door Nissan Navara Calibre with the 'Sammitr' canopy.. what is your fuel consumption ?, as they get a combined driving 8 km per liter. in the City this is down to under 7km....

Edit: a guy in the Village has a 2007 D-Max Auto 3 lt, his combined driving is over 10 km per liter [bigger engine + 1 less gear]

Edited January 2, 2012 by ignis

[Sophon]

using a 2 door for more than 2 people is presently not a problem, except on expressways where they are denied entry. lack of insurance is not a problem, unless an injured passenger claim you, you pay up to one million a head.

I would stay away from secondhand, unless you know the owner and pickups history.

New I would start at looking at crash safety. 2012 Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50, Vigo and Triton is ok. Have not seen any crashes with 2012 DMax/Colorado yet

be aware of the expensive insurance for Vigo, TH most stolen pickup

auto is a must, even for an ex pro driver like this beachbum. long truck like shifts, high compression kangaroo willing engine and heavy duty clutch is a no go. focus needs to be on traffic, not shifting and clutching, engineers have solved this for us

so my pick, based on OPs info and my brilliant advice, Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50 depending on which of your local dealers have a decent service/garage. 2,2 auto, 2 door and get a rearseat and seatbelts. Approx 700k baht

Thanks for the information.

What Ford/Mazda models are you thinking about for approximately 700k baht? The cheapest AT models I can find on the Mazda and Ford websites cost more than 750k baht, and for Mazda it doesn't look like they have any Freestyle cab (as they call the extended cab) with AT.

Sophon

[katabeachbum]

using a 2 door for more than 2 people is presently not a problem, except on expressways where they are denied entry. lack of insurance is not a problem, unless an injured passenger claim you, you pay up to one million a head.

I would stay away from secondhand, unless you know the owner and pickups history.

New I would start at looking at crash safety. 2012 Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50, Vigo and Triton is ok. Have not seen any crashes with 2012 DMax/Colorado yet

be aware of the expensive insurance for Vigo, TH most stolen pickup

auto is a must, even for an ex pro driver like this beachbum. long truck like shifts, high compression kangaroo willing engine and heavy duty clutch is a no go. focus needs to be on traffic, not shifting and clutching, engineers have solved this for us

so my pick, based on OPs info and my brilliant advice, Ford Ranger/Mazda BT50 depending on which of your local dealers have a decent service/garage. 2,2 auto, 2 door and get a rearseat and seatbelts. Approx 700k baht

Thanks for the information.

What Ford/Mazda models are you thinking about for approximately 700k baht? The cheapest AT models I can find on the Mazda and Ford websites cost more than 750k baht, and for Mazda it doesn't look like they have any Freestyle cab (as they call the extended cab) with AT.

Sophon

afraid you are right, they dont do 2 door autos (yet), so its 799k baht for a 4 door XLT

[katabeachbum]

and if I needed a pickup for 10k km a year, and my budget didnt allow auto, I think I would go dirt cheap getting a Suzuki Carry at 325k baht

or consider if a car with auto could do, mazda2 at 574k baht

[Sophon]

and if I needed a pickup for 10k km a year, and my budget didnt allow auto, I think I would go dirt cheap getting a Suzuki Carry at 325k baht

or consider if a car with auto could do, mazda2 at 574k baht

Thank's for the suggestions but a small car wouldn't be suitable for neither the roads in (semi)rural Northern Thailand, nor would it cover our needs for transportation of dogs etc. If we were staying here in Bangkok I would definitely be buying a car, but it wouldn't be the Mazda 2 as I couldn't live with the way it looks (a personal opinion, I know many think it's attractive).

And no, I won't be going for the Suzuki Cary either. It doesn't look like it would be a pleasurable experience taking that for longer trips (Bangkok to Chiang Mai).

Thank you anyway.

Sophon

[NanLaew]

10km a year with mostly 2-up + dogs? Forget the prestige brands and get a Tata.

[wandrinstar]

So let the Family Choose something, they will in the end. you just Chek Bin. .

[Master of the court]

About the high rides.......how are they to drive on normal roads, and whats the price for it ?? Is it possible to get it for a fortuner or pajero ??

Cheers

[wandrinstar]

You can liken a Hi Ride to a Yacht. The Higher up the Mast you go the more you feel the Roll and Pitch. .

[transam]

You can liken a Hi Ride to a Yacht. The Higher up the Mast you go the more you feel the Roll and Pitch. .

Rubbish, OP, try and find a member near you and take a ride. Nooooooo probs in a Toyota 4x4 though l have never driven a Prerunner.