LM is not only a restriction of free speach it is now used as an excuse for the army to get involved in politics with the ever present threat of yet another coup. Without it perhaps Thailand will be able to make some progress towards a true democracy. Its supporters should be ashamed of using the monarchy simply to try and legitimize outrageous persecution of political opponents.

There is no treat. There is only Jutaporns re-occurring 'let's scare followers into a coup treat-mode every 6month without any proof'.

So you support LM and its free speach restrictions?

LM is the main excuse for the army to stay involved in suppressing democracy

The Army suppressing democracy?

Thank you for the laugh.

So our esteemed PM says the country is stable and one of her own MP's says, again, that a coup is close in time.

Awesome.

consistency is the hallmark of this administration

LM is not only a restriction of free speach it is now used as an excuse for the army to get involved in politics with the ever present threat of yet another coup. Without it perhaps Thailand will be able to make some progress towards a true democracy. Its supporters should be ashamed of using the monarchy simply to try and legitimize outrageous persecution of political opponents.

There is no treat. There is only Jutaporns re-occurring 'let's scare followers into a coup treat-mode every 6month without any proof'.

So you support LM and its free speach restrictions?

LM is the main excuse for the army to stay involved in suppressing democracy

a laughable distortion of what was actually said

.

LM is not only a restriction of free speach it is now used as an excuse for the army to get involved in politics with the ever present threat of yet another coup. Without it perhaps Thailand will be able to make some progress towards a true democracy. Its supporters should be ashamed of using the monarchy simply to try and legitimize outrageous persecution of political opponents.

When is the army involved in any LM charges?

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

Didn't HM himself reccomend that the LM laws be thrown out? I remember several years ago at his birthday speech he went on quite a bit about that. How come it is still in place after HM himself told them to get rid of it?

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan on Thursday repeated his claim about opponents setting up a war room to cite the lese majeste issue as a pretext to topple the government by April.

Chalerm?

"I will set up a war room, a working group to take care of this immediately, starting today. It must be done as soon as possible."

- Deputy Prime Minister Police Captain Chalerm Yubamrung

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4653066

Red-shirt Leader Claims Nitirat Group Trying to Protect Monarch

A Pheu Thai red-shirt MP praises the anti-lese majeste law group for proposing a change to the Criminal Code's Section 112 concerning lese majeste and criticizes others for trying to distort the issue.

Government Firm against Amending Lese Majeste

Foreign Minister Surapong Towichakchaikul said the government has no need to clarify or reply to the letter sent by 200 foreign academics to the prime minister, suggesting the Criminal Code's Section 112 on lese majeste be amended.

Surapong commented the proposal from those foreign academics could be from their lack of understanding of Thai culture.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobumrung maintained no government members or members of the Pheu Thai Party agree with the proposed amendment of the lese majeste law.

However, Chalerm declined to comment on the Democrat Party's video clip of Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan expressing his support for the Nitirat group's campaign for an extensive change in the lese majeste law.

The deputy premier then said he has been assigned to look into a rumor that a certain group of people is plotting to topple the government by using the push for the lese majeste law amendment as an excuse.

-- Tan Network 2012-02-02

- or not?

"... their lack of understanding of Thai culture....

I swear one day I'll just start screaming when I see that well-worn excuse trotted out.

But, in a similar way, I guess we didn't understand 1930's Japanese culture of non-japanese=non-human. Our "lack of understanding of %1 culture" led to convictions of war crimes....

And it's our "lack of understanding of %1 culture" that leads us to condemn women in saudi arabia being stoned to death for adultery.

And so on, and so on, and so on......

Of course those things are much more serious than 112 and the limitations it places on freedom of speech, I just get frustrated when Thai politicians or Generals bring out that excuse again and again. But perhaps they should have taken more seriously the Norwegian delegation suggestion at the UN using their LM law as an example, where people are only prosecuted with the permission of their Monarch.

Germany and Switzerland have even more far-reaching laws, where it is illegal to insult a foreign head of state.

Basically, I don't think many people are suggesting getting rid of section 112, just changing it slightly to avoid misuse. I have often thought that misuse of section 112 should be considered as LM anyway.

Cheers

The army may or may not be involved in LM charges, however, when the Army Chief (among a few others) states that if you touch or question 112 then you are not Thai and should leave the country, something is clearly wrong. To have one's patriotism questioned over this issue is absurd and beyond the bounds of decency.

The army may or may not be involved in LM charges, however, when the Army Chief (among a few others) states that if you touch or question 112 then you are not Thai and should leave the country, something is clearly wrong. To have one's patriotism questioned over this issue is absurd and beyond the bounds of decency.

Apart from being part of his oath to defend the Monarchy, no-one in the serious end of the power-pool wants to change it, as it is useful.

2007 constitution - "The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action."

Criminal Code Article 112: "Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years."

But there is no definition of "defames" or "insults" - and, of course, in some opinions, the constitution does not actually provide a legal right for the Royal Family to defend itself, so the state takes on the responsibility.

However, Chalerm declined to comment on the Democrat Party's video clip of Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan expressing his support for the Nitirat group's campaign for an extensive change in the lese majeste law.

Of course he had no comment. The truth is undeniable.

Pheu Thai party-list MP Jatuporn Prompan ... claimed that a group of academics calling themselves, the Nitirat Group is actually trying to protect the monarchy by proposing a change to the Section 112 of the Criminal Code on lese majeste.

How would changing article 112 protect the monarchy more than it already is? Are they saying that the law is currently not strong enough?

Do you really believe that 112 is protecting the monarchy, more than it harms? At least in the way, it is handeld right now>?

The army may or may not be involved in LM charges, however, when the Army Chief (among a few others) states that if you touch or question 112 then you are not Thai and should leave the country, something is clearly wrong. To have one's patriotism questioned over this issue is absurd and beyond the bounds of decency.

Apart from being part of his oath to defend the Monarchy, no-one in the serious end of the power-pool wants to change it, as it is useful.

2007 constitution - "The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action."

Criminal Code Article 112: "Whoever defames, insults or threatens the King, Queen, the Heir-apparent or the Regent, shall be punished with imprisonment of three to fifteen years."

But there is no definition of "defames" or "insults" - and, of course, in some opinions, the constitution does not actually provide a legal right for the Royal Family to defend itself, so the state takes on the responsibility.

The 1997 constitution only had

Section 8. The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated.

No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action.

http://en.wikisource...land_%281997%29

(edit: add: Thailand's Criminal code has carried a prohibition against lese-majesty since 1908. No idea how the wording of the appropriate articles have changed over the years)

2007 constitution - "The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action."

Exact same wording as the 1997 Constitution.

.

I think its important to remind, that clownish as Jatuporn may seem, this are the same lies and liars that caused 91 people to die list year. There's nothing funny about it.

Jatuporn and his ilk, for all their talk about reconciliation keep their followers scared and angry, primed to spring into action when and where they may be needed to flex some muscle for the benefit of their power struggles.

However, Chalerm declined to comment on the Democrat Party's video clip of Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Prompan expressing his support for the Nitirat group's campaign for an extensive change in the lese majeste law.

Of course he had no comment. The truth is undeniable.

He could have said "the man is a f#cking idiot" but wy bother as it is common knowledge.

The claims are that the abusive way 112 is being used result in more damage than good to those it is meant to protect. Thus, by revising 112 such that it cannot be abused, or is much less likely to be, it will in fact provide greater support and lessen divisions.

I think most sensible people accept these claims are facts. Did those who drafted this law visualise the way it would be abused and perverted. It is normal practice in any democracy that when a law becomes a focus for abuse, it gets amended to remove the potential for abuse. For example Twenty-seven amendments have been ratified since the original signing of the American Constitution.

I'd be really wary about replying in this thread. I have noticed that Thai visa admins like to leave open topics like this as honey traps to ensnare those with possible "controversial" opinions and those comments may be getting directly relayed to the Thai LM division. Just watch yourselves.

I'd be really wary about replying in this thread. I have noticed that Thai visa admins like to leave open topics like this as honey traps to ensnare those with possible "controversial" opinions and those comments may be getting directly relayed to the Thai LM division. Just watch yourselves.

That is exactly the issue isn't it. It makes people afraid to have even a calm, polite debate of the subject for fear of allegations and accusations being made. BTW what is the LM division?

Actually, I had noticed the relative paucity of replies on the subject. If it had been Jatuporn and any other law, I am sure the number would be much higher. Quite frightening!!!!!

"Jatuporn did not identify the opponents involving in the plot..."

In civilized societies they call it gossip or 'chinese whisper' if you don't name the source. I kinda like it that way!

I have noticed that any article related to Lese Majeste is usually locked. In fact, I have previously posted a question about Lese Majeste and it was immediately locked by an administrator. Odd that this one is still open. Of course 112 should be altered so it cannot be abused. Its current abuse for political or personal gain is the motivation for revision, not a desire to insult the King who is rightfully revered.

I'd be really wary about replying in this thread. I have noticed that Thai visa admins like to leave open topics like this as honey traps to ensnare those with possible "controversial" opinions and those comments may be getting directly relayed to the Thai LM division. Just watch yourselves.

This kind of false and defamatory posting smacks of not only paranoia but is in direct contravention of our privacy rules. I would highly recommend that you refrain from making false accusations against Thaivisa its mods and admins in the future as repeated false accusations may find your account permanently suspended.

End of this off topic hijack of the thread.

I think its important to remind, that clownish as Jatuporn may seem, this are the same lies and liars that caused 91 people to die list year. There's nothing funny about it.

Jatuporn and his ilk, for all their talk about reconciliation keep their followers scared and angry, primed to spring into action when and where they may be needed to flex some muscle for the benefit of their power struggles.

Spot on. Every day on the red shirt channel they continually show scenes from the burn Bangkok campaign. They show the dead in the street, photos of the army with their rifles leveled at the crowd and then they cut to a clip of mothers and wives crying calling the government murderers. Last they show Thaksin in all his glory. It is constant hate messages. Of course they never show the reds shooting (which I have photos of) or them tourching any buildings. Jatuporn and his ilk are nothing but lying scum bags.

I'd be really wary about replying in this thread. I have noticed that Thai visa admins like to leave open topics like this as honey traps to ensnare those with possible "controversial" opinions and those comments may be getting directly relayed to the Thai LM division. Just watch yourselves.

This kind of false and defamatory posting smacks of not only paranoia but is in direct contravention of our privacy rules. I would highly recommend that you refrain from making false accusations against Thaivisa its mods and admins in the future as repeated false accusations may find your account permanently suspended.

End of this off topic hijack of the thread.

+ 1

I think its important to remind, that clownish as Jatuporn may seem, this are the same lies and liars that caused 91 people to die list year. There's nothing funny about it.

Jatuporn and his ilk, for all their talk about reconciliation keep their followers scared and angry, primed to spring into action when and where they may be needed to flex some muscle for the benefit of their power struggles.

Spot on. Every day on the red shirt channel they continually show scenes from the burn Bangkok campaign. They show the dead in the street, photos of the army with their rifles leveled at the crowd and then they cut to a clip of mothers and wives crying calling the government murderers. Last they show Thaksin in all his glory. It is constant hate messages. Of course they never show the reds shooting (which I have photos of) or them tourching any buildings. Jatuporn and his ilk are nothing but lying scum bags.

Always interested to see your photos of "the reds shooting". Care to share?

It has been established several times in the last months that the subject of this OP is not a maw doo and should not consider that as a viable employment path after his exit from politics

I think its important to remind, that clownish as Jatuporn may seem, this are the same lies and liars that caused 91 people to die list year. There's nothing funny about it.

Jatuporn and his ilk, for all their talk about reconciliation keep their followers scared and angry, primed to spring into action when and where they may be needed to flex some muscle for the benefit of their power struggles.

Spot on. Every day on the red shirt channel they continually show scenes from the burn Bangkok campaign. They show the dead in the street, photos of the army with their rifles leveled at the crowd and then they cut to a clip of mothers and wives crying calling the government murderers. Last they show Thaksin in all his glory. It is constant hate messages. Of course they never show the reds shooting (which I have photos of) or them tourching any buildings. Jatuporn and his ilk are nothing but lying scum bags.

Always interested to see your photos of "the reds shooting". Care to share?

Dear ppd, you've been around a few years. Unless your memory starts to fail you there is no need to ask for more photo's. Just search this forum, yahoo/google a bit, look at youtube clips, ask our local expert NickNostritz, etc., etc. Oh and btw the topic is about Phue Thai parly list MP and UDD leader Jatuporn indicating the end of the world is near and a coup may come soon.

If the LM rule didn't exist the only losers would be those who abuse it.

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1

LM is not only a restriction of free speach it is now used as an excuse for the army to get involved in politics with the ever present threat of yet another coup. Without it perhaps Thailand will be able to make some progress towards a true democracy. Its supporters should be ashamed of using the monarchy simply to try and legitimize outrageous persecution of political opponents.

There is no treat. There is only Jutaporns re-occurring 'let's scare followers into a coup treat-mode every 6month without any proof'.

So you support LM and its free speach restrictions?

LM is the main excuse for the army to stay involved in suppressing democracy

Where did he say that? Another amsterdam graduate?

Deputy Agriculture Minister is Nattawut, not Jatuporn. Probably for the very first time I agree with a lot of what he says. As far as I am concerned he is still a loudmouth rabble-rouser though.

Lest you forget, the Nitirat group is not only for revising 112 but also a raft of other issues, some of which are not palatable to a certain group. However, rather than playing up the other issues, they spout on and on about 112 to stir up anti Nitirat feeling. In fact, I believe a lot of those claiming to be against touching 112 are indifferent about the matter, but the best way to avoid the other changes Nitirat is proposing is to focus on this issue alone.

So what are the other issues.

And here is a summary of the news in Thailand this week.

Deputy Prime Minister, Chalerm Yoobamroong, managed to write a new law all by himself. Clearly chuffed to bits with acheivements he beamed that is was truly fantastic feat but nobody could look at it yet because it was still on back back of his cigarette packet. Asked whether he though it would succeed in being implemented he said "We are the PTP, We are in charge. Any bill that we want can be put through using emergency decrees and nobody can do anything about it. That is democracy in action."

In a Suan Dusit poll, 93% of participants said that they felt the Simsimi testbot could write a better law than Chalerm.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra stated that the country was now ready for any floods that may come from the rainy season. When quizzed by journalists as to how this could possibly be the case when not a single baht of the 350 billion loan had been spent she asked that any technical questions be directed to people with more experience in concealing the facts.

New Office Minister Nalinee Taweesin's appointment has come under close scrutiny following her dealings with pariah nation Zimbabwe's dictatorial Mugabe family. "Please give me a chance. Having worked with the thieves and murderers in Southern Africa I am sure that I am ideally suited to working with the PTP regime."

In a Suan Dusit poll, 93% of participants said that they felt the Simsimi testbot could write a better law than Chalerm.

I always believed that these polls would get it right someday !