Bangkok's 'Hitler Chic' Trend Riles Tourists, Israeli Envoy

[radiola]

I saw one guy wearing hitler tshirt, hitler face and nazi symbol, not swastika 2 years ago. He worked near tesco lotus, where there are many stalls selling tshirts.....

[Trouble]

375 posts on a rather insignificant topic. It goes to show how some subjects can get people riled up. When the students in Chiang Mai wore their Nazi like uniforms in a parade it sparked the same type of reaction here on TV. Sure some of the "insensitivity" to western "sensitivities" might be from ignorance but then to the youth of today WWII is ancient history. I served in the Vietnam "conflict" which ended over 35 years ago. Do you know that most American youth today do not have a clue about the Vietnam period in American history other than it happened. Anyone that expects the Thai youth of today to be sensitive to things that happen a world away before they were born, before I was born, better get a grip on reality. As someone pointed out, the parodies done in American movies and TV such as Hogan's Heros would seem insensitive by today's ridiculous standards. Move on people.

[GentlemanJim]

I saw one guy wearing hitler tshirt, hitler face and nazi symbol, not swastika 2 years ago. He worked near tesco lotus, where there are many stalls selling tshirts.....

Thank you my presciousssssssssss. That comment has made me giggle a lot. Nice one, made me laaarf that did.

[473geo]

It is a big difference to watch Hogan's Heroes at home than running around with an Adolf Kitty printed on your shirt.

Over the last 15 odd years, I have seen some of the weirdest stuff printed on Thai's shirts. From a very dark-skinned lass wearing a White Power slogan to a reprint of a Hallmark Sympathy Card - In Deepest Sympathy followed by a truly awful poem. None of then realise how truly inappropriate their shirt is, or intend any offense.

I treat it with amusement.

Unless it is red.... apparently

[geriatrickid]

But he is very right that McDonalds is an American born and bred Corporation. Supersize Me was not made in Iceland or Belgium or the UK or even Canada, no it was made in the USA! Tell me Geriatrickid, have you ever bought a copy DVD movie in Bangkok...EVER?

McDonald's may have started in the USA, but it is an international company now. This is not unusual for large multinationals. The fact of the matter is that the infringement is occurring for personal profit and is not being done as a protest or an expression of a political opinion. McDonald's could be a Kenyan company and it would not matter. The people selling the hitler products are engaged in theft. They are misappropriating another entity's property, and damaging it whilst satisfying their own greed. Basically you are arguing in favour of theft because you perceive the company is American. Nice logic.

I have never purchased a DVD in Bangkok. I have purchased Thai language DVD's at the local Carrefour/Big C. They come with the appropriate seal/stamp.

I have no problem paying 90 -200 baht for the DVD. I wouldn't steal vegetables at the market, so why would I steal the produce of artists?

[GentlemanJim]

But he is very right that McDonalds is an American born and bred Corporation. Supersize Me was not made in Iceland or Belgium or the UK or even Canada, no it was made in the USA! Tell me Geriatrickid, have you ever bought a copy DVD movie in Bangkok...EVER?

McDonald's may have started in the USA, but it is an international company now. This is not unusual for large multinationals. The fact of the matter is that the infringement is occurring for personal profit and is not being done as a protest or an expression of a political opinion. McDonald's could be a Kenyan company and it would not matter. The people selling the hitler products are engaged in theft. They are misappropriating another entity's property, and damaging it whilst satisfying their own greed. Basically you are arguing in favour of theft because you perceive the company is American. Nice logic.

I have never purchased a DVD in Bangkok. I have purchased Thai language DVD's at the local Carrefour/Big C. They come with the appropriate seal/stamp.

I have no problem paying 90 -200 baht for the DVD. I wouldn't steal vegetables at the market, so why would I steal the produce of artists?

At no point have I jumped on the bandwaggon of agreeing with any theft. I am pointing out that McDonalds is American for one reason only, and that is that in several posts you have made the ridiculous statement that McDonalds is not an American company. Who sells all the master franchise licences? So don't start twisting logic eh!

[endure]

None in my family died. They all fought for the allies and killed the nazi scum.

Please grow up and realize that "the nazi scum" where also human beings. My grandfather fought in the war and do you think he had a choice? Every man that refuse to fight was put to death as an war criminal.

Not in the UK. They were registered as conscientious objectors and went down the mines or did agricultural or forestry work.

"Conscientious Objectors

Conscientious objectors were men who, for moral or religious reasons felt unable to take part in the war. The government set up tribunals and those who objected to taking part in the war had to apply for Conscientious Objector status and give their reasons before a panel of officials. The panel had the authority to grant full exemption from any kind of war work, to grant exemption from military service only or to dismiss the application. Approximately 60,000 men applied for Conscientious Objector status. Of those around 18,000 were dismissed"

[TAWP]

It is illegal to take a copyrighted image and deface it for personal profit.

No, it isn't. In many parts of the world it is a civil matter and in some parts it is completely permitted. In some corporatist states it is not permitted, but then again working towards the bettering of the world isn't in these nations goals.

Sorry for off-topic, but you opened the door.

[MAJIC]

Americans have killed much much more muslims, directly and indirectly, than the 2nd world war jews.

Would you care to provide some proof for this statement?

I thought not as you are talking out of your arse and showing your woeful lack of knowledge regarding history of the last 100 years.

No, with a nic like reggaebkk, you most likely walk around with a Che t-shirt on thinking it's cool and haven't a clue as to the atrocities he committed.

A ridiculous statement for sure.

Agreed.

The heroes that some people have,through lack of Historical knowledge is unbelievable,one of my Australian friends thought Chairman Mao,was the peoples hero, and refused to believe he was an evil Dictator of the worst kind responsible for over 30,000,000 deaths of his people,strangely enough it was an Australian Documentary which finally wised him up,much to his dismay.,

[MAJIC]

But he is very right that McDonalds is an American born and bred Corporation. Supersize Me was not made in Iceland or Belgium or the UK or even Canada, no it was made in the USA! Tell me Geriatrickid, have you ever bought a copy DVD movie in Bangkok...EVER?

McDonald's may have started in the USA, but it is an international company now. This is not unusual for large multinationals. The fact of the matter is that the infringement is occurring for personal profit and is not being done as a protest or an expression of a political opinion. McDonald's could be a Kenyan company and it would not matter. The people selling the hitler products are engaged in theft. They are misappropriating another entity's property, and damaging it whilst satisfying their own greed. Basically you are arguing in favour of theft because you perceive the company is American. Nice logic.

I have never purchased a DVD in Bangkok. I have purchased Thai language DVD's at the local Carrefour/Big C. They come with the appropriate seal/stamp.

I have no problem paying 90 -200 baht for the DVD. I wouldn't steal vegetables at the market, so why would I steal the produce of artists?

Incidently,Macdonalds franchise in Thailand is a Thai Company trading under the company name of Mc Thai,but still buying stock from Mcdonalds,and adhering to the franchise terms.

[MrHammer]

It's bad taste sure, but rather clever and funny taking one of the worlds worst dictators and depicting him as an angry panda or teletubby. If you weren't completely blinded by your western sensitivities you would be able to see this. It's not different AT ALL to the satirical shirts and stuff with Kim Jong Il or Mao, exactly the same kind of ironic depiction of mass murderers which Andy Warhol started.

So get of your western pedistal and grow up. We all know this only gets so much attention because this offends jews and jews are a rather resourceful group. Or why did everyone forget to cry out for all the Mao or Kim Jong Il stuff?

[robbo1]

Talking about ignorance, I can remember a while back asking my missus about the second world war and Japan taking over Thailand, what you talk about I not understand. I dont think this sought of history is taght in Thai education.

[truthfulfox]

Thais are free in their homeland to act as they like

[cdnvic]

Some members seem to have though we weren't serious when warning people to debate the issues and not attack each other. They have all lost their posting rights for awhile. Two others tried to drag the Royal Family into the debate, and have recieved long suspension, or in one case, a permanent ban.

Calm down, debate the issues, and stop attacking each other. For every person posting here we have hundreds reading who are looking for information, not petty name calling. We are not prepared to sacrifice their reading experience because grown adults want to call each other names and drag the story off topic.

Edit: There were a lot of posts removed. Many of them made good points and were well thought out. Unfortunatly after taking the time to craft them, the author inserted an insult against another member which made it nessesary to delete the post. Why waste your time like that?

[Honthy]

If you drive down to Hua Hin from Bangkok you wil see a big gold dome with a big red Swastika on the done, maybe an old Asia symbol but it still brings the memories back to most farang one way or another.

this is a new evidence, how unintelligent and ignorant a farang could be. So... we have to ban everything, which might bring some farangs memory to some historical facts. Should we ban the cross? .. what about crossroads ???

Be sgocked by the latest massacres - not one has happened 70 years ago. Let us remember Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq, Palestine, organized political crimes in third countries or on internationally acknowledged free waters.

Some farangs don't like this "unintelligent, ignorant, primitive" land and people. Let me propose to him: go home man. There you do not have to be shocked by old symbols , there you do not have to listen to Wagner, 'cause it is forbidden on the "land of democracy"

No way to lash those people who accept us - farangs- gives us possibilities. If you don't like, you can go... it is better for everyone...

[OzMick]

It is a big difference to watch Hogan's Heroes at home than running around with an Adolf Kitty printed on your shirt.

Over the last 15 odd years, I have seen some of the weirdest stuff printed on Thai's shirts. From a very dark-skinned lass wearing a White Power slogan to a reprint of a Hallmark Sympathy Card - In Deepest Sympathy followed by a truly awful poem. None of then realise how truly inappropriate their shirt is, or intend any offense.

I treat it with amusement.

Unless it is red.... apparently

You are of course, correct. In this case the offense is intended.

[jerrysteve]

I doubt that world history is even a subject in the school system here; Thai History yes. If rthat the only indepth reading are comic books, and of course as foreigners many of us including myself are still fans of the classic cartoons presented in the English newspapers here.

[EvolvingApe]

Aside from the ignorance of glamorizing der Fuhrer, this situation basically is a very bold statement of the complete disregard and contempt that Thailand has for intelectual property, trade dress,and trademarks. Teletubbies, Ronald McDonald etc. are all trademarks and important assets of others. Those groups have invested millions if not billions of baht into building their respective brands. Teletubbies which is intended for young kids deserves better than to have its image raped and violated by a bunch of greedy, ignorant thieves. And yes tha's what these business are. They aaren't just robbing their victims, they are peeing on them as well. One can laugh this off all one wants, but it is this attitude that explains in part why no foreign entities have R&D investments in Thailand.

Indeed,

Beyond this, the fact that the army got its nickers in such a twist about putting Abhisit's image on a flip flop shows how truly bizarre this country can be.

I wonder how long a t-shirt openly stating Praer Viharn isn't Thai would last in the market? (Irrespective of whether it is true or not). To another poster, this isn't laughing at nazism, this parody as you call it is essentially thievery by besmirching global brands.

Excellent point. It shows me that, culturally, the respect is there. I will assume that several members of our forum are involved in education, so why don't those people teach their students to share that respect that they have for Abhisit and other elite group members for ideas that we would like to see more respect for, rather than screaming 'ignorant Thais' every time I turn around?

[richard_smith237]

In a country which always attempts to claim the moral high ground and publicly complains at the slightest infringement on 'face' this is somewhat of an outrage. If the ministry of the interior can complain about various videos, surely they can do something and attempt to protect the ignorant from insulting a large number of tourists in such a downright stupid an immature manner....

IMO this represents an example of why Thailand is the way it is. Innocently Ignorant.

[Kilgore Trout]

I see you clearly don't know what the word means, or how to use it. Ironic is when the expected outcome is the exact opposite of the actual outcome. I don't see how someone wearing a Mao shirt could be ironic.

[Oberkommando]

I wonder what would happen if I wore t-shirts with one of the many Thai dictators on them, as most of them are regarded (with perhaps the exception of Suchinda) as national heroes or 'good people'.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

[OzMick]

I wonder what would happen if I wore t-shirts with one of the many Thai dictators on them, as most of them are regarded (with perhaps the exception of Suchinda) as national heroes or 'good people'.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I can see 2 problems (ignoring the obvious that Asians look aike):

you would have to include his name in Thai script to avoid lack of recognition

it would probably be seen as approving of his actions unless he was depicted in an inappropriate act (with a goat would do nicely)

[animatic]

Isn't Ronald McDonald American? This must have been approved by McDonalds as they own the trademark. American dress as nazis in the name of entertainment and fun but if a Thai does it there is a big stink and racist cards come out. American T.V shows southpark etc American movies the list is endless and far more blatant than anything here in Thailand. My great uncle was beheaded by the japanese in WWII and my family doesn't get in huff when they see a japanese flag.

Geez give the Thais a little bit of a break and look what is happening in your countries (England, Aust, U.S etc) before condeming Thailand for less.

Maybe not in your family,

but the Chinese still get very upset about 'Rape of Nanking' denial too.

Even this week it was news, some obtuse Japanese mayor said idiocies about it.

Though there was no iconic figure or individuals image about the Rape of Nanking,

if there was and was worn mixed with Ronald McD. they no doubt would be quite upset.

I have absolutely NO DOUBT this was NEVER signed off on by any American working for McDonalds.

And because of the nasty nature of Hitler, the fair use parody exemption would not apply.

As to legitimate parody;

and example cited is Mel Brooks 'Spring Time For Hitler In Germany'.

The point is, as was said in the film, the reason it was written was because

it WAS in SUCH BAD TASTE, that it would be a failure, or worse,

( 'The Producers' needed to LOSE money as a plot point)

And the ironic parody is 'people had forgotten the horror' and made it a hit,

in this fictional play. Of course this was an American Jew, Brooks, doing it,

and made the irony that much greater.

Hogans Heros, made blatant and obvious fun of German war movie stereotypes

and laughed at the Nazis, not extolled them in blind ignorance, as a 'fashion statement'

I watched that with a man who was in 9 POW camps in WWII Germany and he loved

finally to beable to laught at his captors 25 years later.

That is the point.

The young Thais and this T-Shirt designer are doing it as frivolous fashion with apparently no conception of what Hitler stands for in the greater world and the pain many feel just on seeing his image.

I had a Polish roommate, not jewish, whos mother watched her sister and brother hung on meat hooks alive and dismember alive, by Nazi's trying to get information they didn't have from them.... All in the name of the Aryan cause and Hitlers greater Germany. You will NEVER get them to see anything but utter agony seeing his picture. If this story bothers you to read... imagine their feelings.

There is nothing 'Chic' about it, just ignorant and thoughtless.

[anterian]

Ding ding! The outrage bus is full and coming to the end of its journey, will all outraged passengers please alight here and look for another subject on TV that has an outrage bus just waiting for your custom. Mission accomplished, shirt sales have now gone through the roof as the backlash of outrage comments has leaked from TV onto the Thai social networking sites.

I can honestly say I would be feared to death of going for a pint with 80% of the guys on here, talk about going out for a chilled night out, a pint and a few jokes, blimey, I would be scared to open my mouth in case it was one of the prolific outrage bus riders.

Three very talented Jewish entertainers whose families had all seen members suffer in the holocaust, still thought that Hitler and the Nazi's needed the pi** taking out of them. Mel Brooks, Gene Wilder and Zero Mostel came up with this massive Hollywood success, stated by Peter Sellers as being the 'ultimate film'.

and for those screaming 'well that was in 1968, things are different now', there was also the very funny remake in 2005, screenplay by Mel Brooks. Just get to the business and fast forward to four minutes.

So, to conclude. Funny to Hollywood, funny to Jewish actors whose family were in the Holocaust, very unfunny to Thai Visa Outrage bus riders!

Catchy tunes eh !

It wouldn`t bother me going for a drink with any of the posters here.

Some agree it`s funny, others don`t, just a matter of opinion not World War Three and now I can`t see how this thread can progress any further.

I think all there is to say has been said, unless anyone can come up with a new angle to this, but somehow I doubt it.

On an end note, I will say none of us actually experienced the war or lived through it, and perhaps if there were some comments heard from the war veterans themselves. than many may change their points of view.

Ask and ye shall be answered! There are quite a few people on here who have been through other wars and been on UN or NATO tasks that have witnessed true human horrors and tragedies. Fair to say that most of those who have been in a war situation are the first to start taking the pi** and you wont find many of them at all on the outrage bus. I have a young guy comes out to take holidays with our family, he was in the marines and lost his legs aged 19 in Afghanistan. He never lost his sense of humour though, and despite missing half his limbs, he is twice the man of most on here. His moral courage knows no bounds, he has a sense of humour and he would rather walk than ride the outrage bus.

Edited to add, you know reference the videos above, I bet Mel Brooks would be absolutely livid about the Ronald McDonald and Telly-tubby, Hitler parody.......because he never thought of it himself! His belly would be aching with laughter if he were told of this I bet.

"On an end note, I will say none of us actually experienced the war or lived through it,"

Rubbish the best years of my childhood, Dad away in the army, very few police, fireworks and sound and light displays every night, dogfights in the sky and doodlebugs to watch, no traffic, shrapnel collections, sharing air raid shelters with strangers, sirens and klaxons, life was exciting.

Incidentally, 30 years later I was working at the top of a ladder when the local authority tested out one of their wartime sirens. Two seconds later I was down the ladder and under the kitchen table, no conscious thought involved, just sheer reflex, it quite amazed me!

[animatic]

I see you clearly don't know what the word means, or how to use it. Ironic is when the expected outcome is the exact opposite of the actual outcome. I don't see how someone wearing a Mao shirt could be ironic.

It could be very ironic,

if he is calling for Democracy for months on end while wearing it

and using Maoist tactics to to get it, and the 'democracy' demanded

is a pathetic parody of actual functional democracy.

THAT is ironic.

[chrisinth]

This is black humour plain and simple! Black humour is an escape from the reality of a situation or event that can be psychologically traumatic to those affected by it. It is often used in the armed forces or rescue services to take away the severity of said situation or event. Because somebody makes fun of it, doesn’t mean it is funny or that it is meant to offend; it is a release from horror.

For all the posters that have been indignantly offended by this, please pause for a moment and ask yourselves what would be gained by the printers of these shirts to deliberately make them offensive. Unless I am completely off the mark and there is an underlying conspiracy happening, it is black humour.

The majority of stand-up comedians today spend a lot of time on the materials they use. Generally, the material is not written to offend but will be about currently taboo subjects; the objective to get the message across in such a way that it is funny. The public pay to watch the shows knowing this, and again generally enjoy the hour or so release from political correctness that has become such an over-riding factor of our society today. The material used is not personal and the audience is not offended.

There have been almost 400 posts on this subject in less than 24 hours, I hope some people are enlightened by them. Have to go now, have something important to do.

[animatic]

This is black humour plain and simple! Black humour is an escape from the reality of a situation or event that can be psychologically traumatic to those affected by it. It is often used in the armed forces or rescue services to take away the severity of said situation or event. Because somebody makes fun of it, doesn't mean it is funny or that it is meant to offend; it is a release from horror.

For all the posters that have been indignantly offended by this, please pause for a moment and ask yourselves what would be gained by the printers of these shirts to deliberately make them offensive. Unless I am completely off the mark and there is an underlying conspiracy happening, it is black humour.

The majority of stand-up comedians today spend a lot of time on the materials they use. Generally, the material is not written to offend but will be about currently taboo subjects; the objective to get the message across in such a way that it is funny. The public pay to watch the shows knowing this, and again generally enjoy the hour or so release from political correctness that has become such an over-riding factor of our society today. The material used is not personal and the audience is not offended.

There have been almost 400 posts on this subject in less than 24 hours, I hope some people are enlightened by them. Have to go now, have something important to do.

The T-Shirt maker wants to profit on others intelectual property,

the kids wearing it are following a fashion trend this guy created.

Go ask one about Hitler if you see them wearing it and see how much they have to say on him.

It is, driven by shameless greed, frivolity and ignorance, nothing more.

[blazes]

I wonder what would happen if I wore t-shirts with one of the many Thai dictators on them, as most of them are regarded (with perhaps the exception of Suchinda) as national heroes or 'good people'.

Posted with Thaivisa App http://apps.thaivisa.com

I can see 2 problems (ignoring the obvious that Asians look aike):

you would have to include his name in Thai script to avoid lack of recognition

it would probably be seen as approving of his actions unless he was depicted in an inappropriate act (with a goat would do nicely)

Asians look alike?

Reminds me of a comment from a teacher in a foreign country about the sheer number of Chinese students being shipped over to his school to be educated.

He said: "There are so many Chinese students in the school now, all the white kids are beginning to look alike."

[Schnitzel]

Is this more worse than pissing on dead enemy soldiers or burning quarans live on the internet?

Storm in a teacup or tornado in the schnapsglas?

[Kilgore Trout]

I see you clearly don't know what the word means, or how to use it. Ironic is when the expected outcome is the exact opposite of the actual outcome. I don't see how someone wearing a Mao shirt could be ironic.

It could be very ironic,

if he is calling for Democracy for months on end while wearing it

and using Maoist tactics to to get it, and the 'democracy' demanded

is a pathetic parody of actual functional democracy.

THAT is ironic.

Agreed, but that doesn't seem to be the case.