UK pensions

[sandyf]

Bill,

I have a letter dated Oct 2014, In response to me asking if I married would there be a widows benefit attached to my pension. I am under AFPS 75.

The short answer was. Yes.

1. 91 days at full pension.

2. Then reduced to 75% of current rate at time of death.

There was no mention of any reduction due to age difference. For those that were on the Pre AFPS 75 pension. If you married after leaving, there was no widows benefit payable.

I also know an ex-Navy guy, and I only have his word for it, but it appears there is a vast difference between Army and Navy rates of pension.

I guess all 3 Services have different rules and regulations regarding pensions.

What you are saying can be found here under NON-ATTRIBUTABLE BENEFITS FROM THE AFPS

There are various clauses that need to be taken into account. This one rules me out, I left in Sept 77

• if you married after leaving the Armed Forces, only service given on or after 6 April 1978 will count towards your widow’s pension (this is known as a post-retirement widow’s pension).

Sandy,

That is the link that I found the crap about S2P.

You are correct, my Service was between 89 & 03

BILL

My apologies Sir,

I gave you duff info.

My Pension provides 50% not 75% as I stated above. On checking my paperwork, I got my pension schemes mixed up.

If you want a redacted copy of my Oct 2014 letter, just let me know and I will forward to you.

Too many twists & turns. I had a feeling that I wasn't eligible but couldn't remember why. Had hoped you had come up with something I had missed.

[loppylugs1]

State pension top up has 18 months to run,decreases by over over £500 py to gain £25 for existing OAP,now it would be a good plan if it held on for 4 or 5 years,the lump sum would reduce considerably, have to do the sums on this one

[loppylugs1]

You flyboys,navy types need to be thinking of those final years. Believe British Legion have a few places that are rated 5 star ,might stick my name down for a future berth

[JockPieandBeans]

Sandy,

That is the link that I found the crap about S2P.

You are correct, my Service was between 89 & 03

BILL

My apologies Sir,

I gave you duff info.

My Pension provides 50% not 75% as I stated above. On checking my paperwork, I got my pension schemes mixed up.

If you want a redacted copy of my Oct 2014 letter, just let me know and I will forward to you.

Too many twists & turns. I had a feeling that I wasn't eligible but couldn't remember why. Had hoped you had come up with something I had missed.

Sorry Sandy.

Cannot help you. You have been sh@fted.

[jpinx]

In case anyone is still thinking that their contributions were "invested" -- this is typical of the governments style of investment,,,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33769906#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

[transam]

In case anyone is still thinking that their contributions were "invested" -- this is typical of the governments style of investment,,,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33769906#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

Hmmmm, yes for the layman (me), it does take a lot of "understanding". Pisses me off when I think about that stuff.

I cannot understand giving zillions of quid to a foreign country in "aid" when that country can afford to invest in nuclear weapons that they don't need. Crazy stuff...

[jpinx]

In case anyone is still thinking that their contributions were "invested" -- this is typical of the governments style of investment,,,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33769906#sa-ns_mchannel=rss&ns_source=PublicRSS20-sa

Hmmmm, yes for the layman (me), it does take a lot of "understanding". Pisses me off when I think about that stuff.

I cannot understand giving zillions of quid to a foreign country in "aid" when that country can afford to invest in nuclear weapons that they don't need. Crazy stuff...

Indeed it is -- anyone who knows anything about it is well aware that the "aid" given to various countries is syphoned off into "other projects. Think about Pakistans' nuclear "research" for one instance,,,,

Governments never invest in the true sense of the word. They only play with the money they raise month-to-month. They are not in power long enough to make any meaningful investments because the next government will turn everything upside down again. Governments - even deeply leftist ones - rely on private investments to keep business moving. Private pensions are inevitably going to take over from state schemes because of the need to pay pensioners out of this years tax money, and the increasing number of pensioners and decreasing tax revenues. It'll take time to happen and most of us will be pushing up daisies before then, but pity your kids and grandkids,,,,,,

[sandyf]

Sandy,

That is the link that I found the crap about S2P.

You are correct, my Service was between 89 & 03

BILL

My apologies Sir,

I gave you duff info.

My Pension provides 50% not 75% as I stated above. On checking my paperwork, I got my pension schemes mixed up.

If you want a redacted copy of my Oct 2014 letter, just let me know and I will forward to you.

Too many twists & turns. I had a feeling that I wasn't eligible but couldn't remember why. Had hoped you had come up with something I had missed.

Sorry Sandy.

Cannot help you. You have been sh@fted.

Not for the first time, being single I got screwed during the introduction of the military salary.

Its the pre 75 guys that really dipped out, if I was 2 years older I would have been among them, so not all bad.

[evadgib]

Agreed. A friend in my former Regt scraped into the '75 bracket by just 2 weeks and was among the first to claim his preserved pension (@12/22) upon reaching 60 some 6-7 years ago. Another picks his up next month (@9/22).

Edited August 5, 2015 by evadgib

[sandyf]

Agreed. A friend in my former Regt scraped into the '75 bracket by just 2 weeks and was among the first to claim his preserved pension (@12/22) upon reaching 60 some 6-7 years ago. Another picks his up next month (@9/22).

What a difference a day can make.

Prior to 6 April 1975, there was no provision for a preservation of pension benefits and Service personnel who left the Armed Forces had to have completed 16 years service from age 21 (Officers) or 22 years from age 18 (Other Ranks) to be eligible for a pension. Those who left before that date, without completing the above criteria, had no pension entitlement unless they were medically retired.

The Pension rules were changed so as to allow for individuals who left before the immediate pension point to accrue benefits under the scheme but not to be paid until they had reached pension benefit age:

From 06 April 1975, deferred pensions could be claimed for payment at age 60 for all those discharged over the age of 26 with a minimum of five years reckonable service. Reckonable service starts from age 18 for other ranks and age 21 for officers;

In 1978, the age criterion was removed;

From 06 April 1983 Service personnel no longer needed 5 years reckonable service, but 5 years contracted out service (contracted out service is service from age 16 earned after 6/4/78

On 06 April 1988, the qualifying period was reduced from five years to two years

On 6 April 2006, the deferred pension age changed to age 65

[Craig krup]

Officers' pensions, and UK military disability pensions pre-Afghanistan, create some very odd situations.

I know someone who did 11 years as an officer and was annoyed about a posting. He acted up, exaggerating how bad an injury was, and got his 1/3 pension after 11 years - three years for being at uni plus his moaning. I know a TA officer who got a little pension despite the fact that the hearing problem he had was what kept him out of the regulars and was pre-service. I know a regular soldier who had knackered knees after driving a truck for five years and scored £500 a month on the basis that the driving wrecked his knees. Let's face it - anything would have wrecked his knees; the trouble was in the knees not the truck. But anyway, five years service = enough dough to live modestly in SE Asia for the rest of your life. He was a diver as well. Dodgy knees was the best thing that ever happened to him.

I don't know if the world is ill-divided but UK public sector pensions are.

[billd766]

I am writing to the APFS about my pension and I found a reply from a letter I wrote to them 4 years ago.

Basically they say that because I divorced my first wife she is not entitled to any pension and I married my second wife in 2000.

Because I married the second time AFTER 1978 my wife will be entitled to ONLY my reckonable service pension from 1978 to 1984 which is 6 years.

Effectively they have STOLEN 16 years of my pensionable rights. She also gets 91 days of my pension at the current rate afetr they are informed of my death.

Thieving barstewards.

[JohnC]

After many attempts to correspond with Vetrans UK (they claim not to have received my registered letter despite having signed for them) they tell me on my demise my partner (not married) will need a "Civil Partnership Certificate" ? Never heard of this and wouldn't know where to begin to obtain this in Thailand, any ideas anyone?

[Liquorice]

Of topic, but Civil Partnerships aren't recognised in Thailand.

Contact the British Embassy about the process of getting such a Certificate for use in the UK.

You may have to draw up your own Certificate and then get it legalised by the Embassy.

https://www.gov.uk/notarial-and-documentary-services-guide-for-thailand

Images of certificate examples here:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=civil+partnership+certificate&biw=1188&bih=512&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CCwQsARqFQoTCPKHoc7FkscCFc6PjgodKI8Kvw

[JohnC]

Yes I know not recognised in Thailand but the purpose is for UK pension provider who will recognise it, however, having researched the subject further it transpires that the British embassy in Manilla is the only one in this area that performs the service, you have to be resident for seven days and have two witnesses.

[loppylugs1]

Point about getting married the OAP ( if wife has NI contributions) the combined pension is reduced considerably.

Agree about earlier post on public sector pension ,out of step by a mile over private,but in past days ,when I joined,nobody wanted the jobs,poor pay,but through the 70s things picked up.Now becoming a burden ,and even more so when the govt. has to provide over half a billion more to adjust wrongly paid superannuation payments for past members.

Nobody ,not even the govt. knows the exact figure of the OAP next April,the latest figure of £148 is more than probably a myth,will tumble I'm sure to something like £143,all hell let loose,take or leave attitude from the govt. Taking everything into account just waiting to see if a "top up" for existing pensioners is worth it,and is it based on the OAP portion on the pension or included in the SERPS addition

[Liquorice]

Yes I know not recognised in Thailand but the purpose is for UK pension provider who will recognise it, however, having researched the subject further it transpires that the British embassy in Manilla is the only one in this area that performs the service, you have to be resident for seven days and have two witnesses.

Sent you a PM John as this is off topic.

[billd766]

I wrote to my MP in the UK this morning (If anyone would like to know what I wrote in return to her response from yesterday please PM me). I am not to sure of the legal standing between what I wrote and what she wrote. Mine I believe I can publish but I am not sure about her responses.

I did a bit of research this morning and I found some links for her.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/expatfeedback/11677457/Expat-letters-If-were-forced-to-return-it-will-cost-the-UK.html

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/oct/25/floella-benjamin-unjust-state-pension-system-ethnic-minorities

http://citywire.co.uk/money/a-fairer-pension-system-not-for-expats-with-frozen-pensions/a786314

https://www.facebook.com/pensionjustice

http://www.britishpensions.org.au/petition.htm

https://www.change.org/p/the-british-government-stop-depriving-pensioners-of-their-rightful-pensions?recruiter=46094489&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_frozen_state_pension_and_con

A quote from the last link.


David Cameron recently stated on BBC Breakfast Television: "I want every government department to be held to account for the impact of their policies on the family" and has today expressed irritation that the US has referred to the UK as “Great Shrinking Britain”. Based on Iain Duncan Smith's own words, “I believe you can judge a government’s values by how it treats the country’s pensioners”, a more accurate description would be “Great Heartless Britain”! The UK Government lacks the morality, the integrity, the honesty, to acknowledge that all pensioners have paid their mandatory N.I. contributions on the same terms and should be treated equally.

The Government has frequently admitted that millions of pensioners in the UK are desperately lonely. It is estimated that a large proportion of these would like to join their families in a “frozen” country (ironically mainly those of mostly BRITISH COMMONWEALTH) but the heinous policy prevents them from moving as they would be denied indexation of their fully-contributed State pensions – and for the rest of their lives.

You see it is not just me but almost 600,000 other people as well.

Edited August 6, 2015 by billd766

[loppylugs1]

If anyone is desperate enough to join family ,and this thread has been over it many times. keep an address in the UK,paid for or otherwise or Spain etc.. Frozen pension will never be lifted,have to "do it yourself"

It is a rule,not a law of frozen pensions ,OAP cannot be stopped reduced or paid back. It is no use arguing the issue it is there in DWP guidelines never mind the quoted garbage from ignorant posters.

Just do not give an address in any frozen country

Recently pension "experts" were covering this issue and conceded defeat when the facts were shown a few weeks ago

....and there is no 183 or 184 days or whatever on this issue,on tax there is on residential status but nothing to do with OAP.

..plus most if not all will now be almost 15% better off than last year with lows on currency plus increase in pensions,but it sure does not feel like it ,Thailand gets a lot more expensive,do not know how the average Thai manages. Im off to look at the Algarve soon,would be better off with the Euro methinks

Edited August 6, 2015 by loppylugs1

[evadgib]

HMRC takes next step towards creating a digital future for taxpayers

Mods: Feel free to move if there's a better place elsewhere.

Edited August 6, 2015 by evadgib

[nong38]

HMRC takes next step towards creating a digital future for taxpayers

Mods: Feel free to move if there's a better place elsewhere.

I see the word "hub" is used and I instictively think of outsourcing to Thailand, heaven forbid!

[Suzy]

Trying to organize full payment of my Pension Pot has been an absolute nightmare as I am resident in Thailand. The new laws have not taken into account those ex pats living abroad. A report from a Financial advisor is necessary, one who is registered in the UK and consequently these are non existent in Asia. Going online to all the recommended web sites trying to locate an advisor who is amenable to carrying out the interview, report and advice online proved a waste of time. I contacted over 30 companies and those that deigned to reply ultimately refused to assist, citing various excuses.

After three months, I finally had a reply from an advisor who was extraordinarily helpful, concerned, empathetic, professional, efficient and reasonable in price. The entire matter was settled within three weeks.

If any expat is encountering similar problems, please contact me and I will be more than happy to give you this advisor's contact details.

[evadgib]

Likely to be of interest to the board or people we know in either country:

Paid too much or too little tax? Here’s what to do

Pensions Minister: too many carers missing out on NI credits

Edited August 12, 2015 by evadgib

[dabhand]

Seems that Steve Webb. the former UK pensions minister has picked up a position with pension company, Royal London.

http://www.international-adviser.com/news/1024298/royal-london-appoints-uk-pensions-minister-steve-webb

[evadgib]

More bedside reading from HMG:

Pension Credit: extra information factsheet

Later life newsletters 2015

Edited August 13, 2015 by evadgib

[billd766]

More bedside reading from HMG:

Pension Credit: extra information factsheet

Later life newsletters 2015

From Pension Credit: extra information factsheet

Quote

"Pension Credit Extra information

You can find out more about Pension Credit at gov.uk/pension-credit

This factsheet gives extra information to the website.

Can I get Pension Credit?

You can get Pension Credit if you have

reached the qualifying age

This is the

same age as women’s State Pension age. To

find out what age applies to you, go

to

www.gov.uk/pension-credit-calculator

If you have a partner and only one of

you has reached the Pension Credit

qualifying age, you can still apply. The

person who has reached the qualifying age

must be the one who applies. If you’ve both

reached the qualifying

age, either of

you can apply.

By partner, we mean:

•

a person you live with who is

your husband, wife or civil partner

•

a person you live with as if you are a married couple

Only one of you can get Pension Credit at

any one time. It’s paid for both of you.

We can help you decide who should apply."

Further quote

Can I apply for Pension Credit if I have come from

abroad?

When you apply, you must be living in Great

Britain. You must not be ‘subject to

immigration control’; this means that t

here must be no restrictions which would

stop you receiving financial

help from the State.

You will also need to satisfy the Habitual Residence Test. There are some

exceptions to these rules.

If there’s anything you’re not

sure about, please ask us.

It looked quite promising until the further quote.

Edited August 13, 2015 by billd766

[JB300]

Will your pension run out before you die... https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/pension-run-die-153543733.html

A bit of a lightweight article but interesting point from ONS about nearly 1 in 5 living till they're 100 (QE2 is going to be writing a lot of birthday cards!) & so there's a need to invest for growth as well as income to make sure your pension/income doesn't run out before you die.

[sandyf]

More bedside reading from HMG:

Pension Credit: extra information factsheet

Later life newsletters 2015

From Pension Credit: extra information factsheet

Quote

"Pension Credit Extra information

You can find out more about Pension Credit at gov.uk/pension-credit

This factsheet gives extra information to the website.

Can I get Pension Credit?

You can get Pension Credit if you have

reached the qualifying age

This is the

same age as women’s State Pension age. To

find out what age applies to you, go

to

www.gov.uk/pension-credit-calculator

If you have a partner and only one of

you has reached the Pension Credit

qualifying age, you can still apply. The

person who has reached the qualifying age

must be the one who applies. If you’ve both

reached the qualifying

age, either of

you can apply.

By partner, we mean:

•

a person you live with who is

your husband, wife or civil partner

•

a person you live with as if you are a married couple

Only one of you can get Pension Credit at

any one time. It’s paid for both of you.

We can help you decide who should apply."

Further quote

Can I apply for Pension Credit if I have come from

abroad?

When you apply, you must be living in Great

Britain. You must not be ‘subject to

immigration control’; this means that t

here must be no restrictions which would

stop you receiving financial

help from the State.

You will also need to satisfy the Habitual Residence Test. There are some

exceptions to these rules.

If there’s anything you’re not

sure about, please ask us.

It looked quite promising until the further quote.

Quite. A few years ago I went back to finalise the sale of my house. I went along to sign on but they refused as I was over 60, said I had to apply for pension credit.

It is quite a protracted process, took about 16 weeks to get the first payment. In fact the sale had gone through and I ceased to be eligible before the initial payment.

You cannot think about applying and having an extended holiday during the waiting time as they phone up on a regular basis asking questions.

The only good thing is once you do get on the system, payments continue for 6 months after you cease to be eligible. I came back to Thailand just after the initial payment and continued to receive payments for the next 6 months.

[Paul1952]

This is from the HMRC website

https://www.gov.uk/tax-foreign-income/residence

"You’re automatically resident if either:

• you spent 183 or more days in the UK in the tax year
• your only home was in the UK - you must have owned, rented or lived in it for at least 91 days in total - and you spent at least 30 days there in the tax year

You’re automatically non-resident if either:

• you spent less than 16 days in the UK (or 46 days if you haven’t been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous tax years)
• you work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent less than 91 days in the UK, of which less than 31 days were spent working"

It then gives this link

Tax Residence Indicator

Take the test if you are in doubt.

You have to be careful because there is the famous case of Robert Gaines Cooper who relied on an IR statement of practice IR20 rather than the legislation itself. He lost.

http://www.taxjournal.com/tj/articles/gaines-cooper-decision-highlights-need-certainty-residence-say-experts-34751

Hope this is useful

[sandyf]

There is a now table on your HMRC website to show how your tax is spent. This is how they spent the tax on my pension for 2013/14.

It is a bit much that they are using tax on pensions to fund state pensions. Probably insufficient NI contributions from cutting the qualifying years from 44 to 30.

Amount Welfare (24.52%) £242.99 Health (18.87%) £187.00 Education (13.15%) £130.32 State Pensions (12.12%) £120.11 National debt interest (7.0%) £69.37 Defence (5.31%) £52.62 Criminal Justice (4.4%) £43.60 Transport (2.95%) £29.23 Business Industry (2.74%) £27.15 Government Administration (2.05%) £20.32 Culture eg sports, libraries, museums (1.69%) £16.75 Environment (1.66%) £16.45 Housing and utilities eg street lighting (1.64%) £16.25 Overseas aid (1.15%) £11.40 UK Contribution to the EU Budget (0.75%) £7.43 Total £991.00