UK pensions

[jpinx]

Only prob is the UK case went to the European court and we failed. France and Italy may get the same result if it goes there...

Was it not rejected by the majority of the judges, some of whom came from countries where there is no discrimination as to where their pensioners live.

I don't know how the French and Italian judges voted,will be interested to see how this plays out. Would not be surprised to see these French pensioners gaining their full entitlement, while they continue to deny the same rights to UK pensioners.

Once whatever EU court has ruled in favour of the pensioners, it'll be good time for the UK courts to be faced with the same question. Meantime -- let's keep an eye on the facts of the progress of the claim from the Moroccans, etc. They are certainly due a pension, but let's see what the court decides are the terms of the "contract" and therefore what is due to be paid.

[nong38]

Best to observe what happens here and see what the outcome is, what we dont want is the judges to remember what they thought about UK pensioners. Hopefully they have had a re-think or just give the Moroccans what they are due, we can then through our hat back in the ring.

[Kwasaki]

Only prob is the UK case went to the European court and we failed. France and Italy may get the same result if it goes there...

Maybe if the vote goes to get UK out of Europe, could the same case be put forward for another judgement.

[transam]

Only prob is the UK case went to the European court and we failed. France and Italy may get the same result if it goes there...

Maybe if the vote goes to get UK out of Europe, could the same case be put forward for another judgement.

We will be back to a Parliament vote IF it is put forward....

[Expattaff1308]

The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

Recent coverage in the Eastern Eye. http://pensionjustice.org/…/20…/01/Eastern-Eye-08.01.16.jpeg

[Krataiboy]

URL seems to be broken taff...

Try this one http://www.britishpensions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Sunday-times-Nov-29-2015.jpg

The government response made it clear that this is very unlikely to happen, whereas there is a very great likelihood in the next Budget that Brits living in these countries will lose their personal allowance - equivalent, in many instances, to 20 per cent of their pension income.

[Eclipse]

URL seems to be broken taff...

Try this one http://www.britishpensions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Sunday-times-Nov-29-2015.jpg

The government response made it clear that this is very unlikely to happen, whereas there is a very great likelihood in the next Budget that Brits living in these countries will lose their personal allowance - equivalent, in many instances, to 20 per cent of their pension income.

Is this a quote from somewhere or just your opinion?

[Expattaff1308]

OK Try Again

http://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eastern-Eye-08.01.16.jpeg

[jpinx]

OK Try Again

http://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eastern-Eye-08.01.16.jpeg

It's good news, but forgive my cynical view that it's only happening because of the possibility of a politician losing votes

[Eff1n2ret]

URL seems to be broken taff...

Try this one http://www.britishpensions.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Sunday-times-Nov-29-2015.jpg

The government response made it clear that this is very unlikely to happen, whereas there is a very great likelihood in the next Budget that Brits living in these countries will lose their personal allowance - equivalent, in many instances, to 20 per cent of their pension income.

Is this a quote from somewhere or just your opinion?

Whatever changes they make won't apply to UK pensioners who derive their income from the UK. A long way back in this thread the link was provided to the government's consultation document in which this was made clear. Their main focus seemed to be on working non-residents who earn part of their income in the UK but currently enjoy the whole allowance. Anyone whose income comes wholly or mainly from the UK is unlikely to be affected. Part of the consultation was about what should represent 'mainly', with various options between 75% and 90% on the table. I don't think the majority of pensioners who read this forum have anything to worry about.

[lungbing]

Having read the government's discussion papers most carefully I fully agree with you, despite the scaremongering going on.

[evadgib]

OK Try Again

http://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eastern-Eye-08.01.16.jpeg

Reinforces my long held belief that:

a) This nonsence will eventually be overturned and

b ) HMG are looking for the cheapest way out with no backlash from SUN readers who have thus far been duped by the very same organisation into believing that we're somehow plundering their taxes!

Edited January 17, 2016 by evadgib

[evadgib]

Of interest to anyone in their mid 70's with a foot in both camps:

People over 75 may be asked to give up their free TV licence or make a voluntary contribution to it, under plans being considered by the BBC.

The corporation is due to take on the £650m cost of free licences for the over-75s from 2020 as part of a funding deal agreed with ministers last year.

A report on ways to appeal for voluntary contributions is due in 2016.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35397783

Edited January 25, 2016 by evadgib

[chiang mai]

OK Try Again

http://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eastern-Eye-08.01.16.jpeg

Reinforces my long held belief that:

a) This nonsence will eventually be overturned and

b ) HMG are looking for the cheapest way out with no backlash from SUN readers who have thus far been duped by the very same organisation into believing that we're somehow plundering their taxes!

I expect any partial uprating to be announced hand in hand with loss of the personal allowance.

[nong38]

I doubt they would try to reduce the personal allowance of ordinary ex pat pensioners if the up rating came to be, more at risk would be those who consider themselves to be "non-resident" but I think that would be unlikely as well, the income from such a move would be peanuts in the grand scheme of public finances, as indeed is the cost of up rating the expats pensioners, Osborne is a miser who is loved by very few outside the Bullingham Club, I hope he never becomes PM after DC he is the worst possible option. He has never lived in the real world.

Edited January 27, 2016 by nong38

[chiang mai]

I doubt they would try to reduce the personal allowance of ordinary ex pat pensioners if the up rating came to be, more at risk would be those who consider themselves to be "non-resident" but I think that would be unlikely as well, the income from such a move would be peanuts in the grand scheme of public finances, as indeed is the cost of up rating the expats pensioners, Osborne is a miser who is loved by very few outside the Bullingham Club, I hope he never becomes PM after DC he is the worst possible option. He has never lived in the real world.

In my world, an expat is UK non-resident, otherwise he's not an expat, he's just a tourist, or did I miss something.

[i claudius]

I doubt they would try to reduce the personal allowance of ordinary ex pat pensioners if the up rating came to be, more at risk would be those who consider themselves to be "non-resident" but I think that would be unlikely as well, the income from such a move would be peanuts in the grand scheme of public finances, as indeed is the cost of up rating the expats pensioners, Osborne is a miser who is loved by very few outside the Bullingham Club, I hope he never becomes PM after DC he is the worst possible option. He has never lived in the real world.

In my world, an expat is UK non-resident, otherwise he's not an expat, he's just a tourist, or did I miss something.

We are all just considered "tourists" here in Thailand ,or did I miss something .

Edited January 27, 2016 by i claudius

[transam]

We are NON immigrants in LOS which to me means LOS can chuck us out at any time they feel fit. I don't think I can be considered an expat in LOS as I will never be accepted here. But the UK will call me an expat as I don't live there at this time.

[JB300]

I doubt they would try to reduce the personal allowance of ordinary ex pat pensioners if the up rating came to be, more at risk would be those who consider themselves to be "non-resident" but I think that would be unlikely as well, the income from such a move would be peanuts in the grand scheme of public finances, as indeed is the cost of up rating the expats pensioners, Osborne is a miser who is loved by very few outside the Bullingham Club, I hope he never becomes PM after DC he is the worst possible option. He has never lived in the real world.

In my world, an expat is UK non-resident, otherwise he's not an expat, he's just a tourist, or did I miss something.

There's non-domiciled & non-resident, an Expat is non-domiciled but could still be resident for tax purposes.

Personally I don't think they'll remove the personal taxation allowance for UK Pensioners but might do so for UK citizens who are working overseas (as I've said before, this isn't totally unreasonable as these guys will typically be receiving a personal allowance from the country they're working in so in effect get 2 allowances).

Edited January 27, 2016 by JB300

[jacky54]

OK Try Again

http://pensionjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Eastern-Eye-08.01.16.jpeg

Reinforces my long held belief that:

a) This nonsence will eventually be overturned and

b ) HMG are looking for the cheapest way out with no backlash from SUN readers who have thus far been duped by the very same organisation into believing that we're somehow plundering their taxes!

I expect any partial uprating to be announced hand in hand with loss of the personal allowance.

All the more reason not to tell the b astards where you are living

[billd766]

I doubt they would try to reduce the personal allowance of ordinary ex pat pensioners if the up rating came to be, more at risk would be those who consider themselves to be "non-resident" but I think that would be unlikely as well, the income from such a move would be peanuts in the grand scheme of public finances, as indeed is the cost of up rating the expats pensioners, Osborne is a miser who is loved by very few outside the Bullingham Club, I hope he never becomes PM after DC he is the worst possible option. He has never lived in the real world.

In my world, an expat is UK non-resident, otherwise he's not an expat, he's just a tourist, or did I miss something.

There's non-domiciled & non-resident, an Expat is non-domiciled but could still be resident for tax purposes.

Personally I don't think they'll remove the personal taxation allowance for UK Pensioners but might do so for UK citizens who are working overseas (as I've said before, this isn't totally unreasonable as these guys will typically be receiving a personal allowance from the country they're working in so in effect get 2 allowances).

That isn't strictly correct.

I get 3 pensions.

The state pension frozen at the 2009 rates.

An Armed Forces pension which I pay tax on even though I served overseas it is all counted as UK based.

A company pension which is also taxed as UK based income even though I spent quite a few years working offshore.

HMRC states that if you are working offshore but the company is UK based your pension is deemed to have been earned in the UK, therefore you are taxed on it. If you get taxed in a foreign company and have to pay it the HMRC will knock that tax off what you owe them so you will end up paying the same tax as you would in the UK.

Edited January 27, 2016 by billd766

[chiang mai]

One or two word games being conveniently played here, let me clarify:

The term expat is not so much about where you live but where you don't live. If you are non-resident in the UK for tax purposes you are clearly a UK expat, the fact that you may never be allowed to attain Thai residency is irrelevant to the discussion, as is any comment regarding domicile. Frankly it's a bit OTT for UK citizens who have lived in Thailand for many years but who still claim UK residency via a convenience address to be any part of the debate on pension uplift, you know who you are.

[jacky54]

OTT to expect the same treatment as people who happened to retire, for example, to the Philippines? I don't see that as unreasonable. Yes we know who we are, but they don't

Edited January 27, 2016 by jacky54

[chiang mai]

OTT to expect the same treatment as people who happened to retire, for example, to the Philippines? I don't see that as unreasonable. Yes we know who we are, but they don't

Jacky, are you UK resident for tax purposes or not? If not I agree entirely that UK expats who live year round in Thailand should be treated in exactly the same way as those who reside in the PI. If yes you don't have an axe to grind in this discussion.

[jacky54]

CM are you a British subject?

[chiang mai]

CM are you a British subject?

Yes indeed and my question to you still stands.

[evadgib]

I gave a 'like' for the post but am nonetheless of the opinion that countries outside the EU where Brits receive upgrades were selected with the help of little more than a dart board!

I recon he must be 'T Sol'

(Treasury Solicitor; Any that have ever jousted with them will know where i'm coming from )

Edited January 27, 2016 by evadgib

[chiang mai]

I gave a 'like' for the post but am nonetheless of the opinion that countries outside the EU where Brits receive upgrades were selected with the help of little more than a dart board!

I recon he must be a treasury solicitor

The countries where Brits receive upgrades are the ones with whom the UK has a reciprocal social security agreement, by that I mean that citizens of one country can receive benefits in the reciprocating country. No such agreement exists between the UK and Thailand.

[evadgib]

Blimey; it IS T Sol

(I hope you realize I was joking & up-to-speed!)

Edited January 27, 2016 by evadgib

[transam]

I gave a 'like' for the post but am nonetheless of the opinion that countries outside the EU where Brits receive upgrades were selected with the help of little more than a dart board!

I recon he must be a treasury solicitor

The countries where Brits receive upgrades are the ones with whom the UK has a reciprocal social security agreement, by that I mean that citizens of one country can receive benefits in the reciprocating country. No such agreement exists between the UK and Thailand.

I know two Thai ladies that are in the UK on the dole...Married and divorced their UK husbands.....Years back got a UK PP. after a couple/few years...

Thats two I know about......If they fell out with their UK husband it should have been made clear they must go back to Thailand....Me in LOS must bugger off if me and Mrs.Trans part/divorce in 7 days.........