Unattended Infant!

[brit1984]

My (Thai) wife and I recently moved to Bangkok with our baby daughter (this story is not about her luckily). Today we had a shocking and upsetting experience. As we approached the steps to Phrom Phong station (next to Emporium mall) I saw what looked like a baby lying halfway up the steps. However, as many people were walking up and down the steps I assumed either I couldn't see the parents amongst the crowd or it was a discarded doll. Unfortunately when we walked up the steps I realised it was neither. The girl was around 6 months old, was lying asleep in the sun, wearing dirty clothes and had insect bites on her legs. She had a plastic cup next to her so she was seemingly being used as a beggar. I looked at my wife and she looked at me and we were both shocked. My wife started shouting in Thai (trying to find the parents) and a young child (maybe 5 years old) approached her. My wife spoke to her and ascertained that she was the infant's sister and they had been left there by their parents to beg. I opened my backpack and gave them some of our daughter's nappies, milk and spare clothes. My wife moved the baby into the shade and explained to the baby's sister why this was important. My wife started giving them money but I told her to stop. We went to Emporium for lunch and my wife made a few phone calls including to a charity who agreed to go to see the baby. However, when we returned to the steps after lunch, the baby was gone (although we did see her sister buying fruit from the street vendors). My wife wanted to talk to her but I didn't see the benefit. Has anyone had a similar experience? What should or could we have done? Why were other people seemingly oblivious or uninterested in this poor baby?

[WarpSpeed]

Why were other people seemingly oblivious or uninterested in this poor baby?

Sad to say, but TiT, they know the score..

[Dancealot]

Very sad, i am glad you did the good thing. You did something and that means a lot.

Good luck to you

[Hanwi]

First of all, well done for at least having done something! The problem here is that you quickly become "immune" to this kind of story, although probably never as much as Thai people who've seen it all their life.

Similar things happened to us when we arrived. I remember a story on bridge crossing in front of Siam Paragon, and leading towards MBK : a woman was there begging with 2 children who must have been around 2 and 4 years old, a man arrived and proceded to push and pull the woman, and really physically assaulted her. There were many people walking there, Thais, foreigners, several looked alarmed but none intervened. The police can't have been very far either... In the end it really got on my nerves as the boys started to cry in fear, one was in the woman's arms therefore being pushed and pulled too, the other was near, crying. At one point I could see the woman was loosing grip on the little one, he was going to smash his head on the concrete, I just grabbed him in time. I took both boys away from this commotion but not too far so the woman could still see them, her look was trusting. I wiped the blood on the little one's lip, and cuddled the older one. Obviously, not speaking Thai (were they Thai anyway?) and not knowing the system at the time, I did not know what to do either. Do you think that a Thai person stopped to help??? Of course not.

In the end it all calmed down and the woman got the children back and walked off.

Another time my son noticed a very small baby lying in the dirt under stairs, at the same place, no adult seemed to be about either, and nobody seemed to care!

Now I know you can call social services, or child protection NGOs, although you would need to know their numbers and speak Thai too. You could find a policeman, but you might find out later that he's into this begging thing too... So always carry with you the social services and NGO's numbers, and learn enough thai to be able to explain the situation... And hope that they have enough staff to be able to send someone to help. It does happen, but social services are not the priority of the Thai government.

Sad really. But you have to try and help, this is the right thing to do. Just beware that there are powerful gangs behind all this, and putting yourself or your family in danger might not be the right thing in the future. Maybe the right thing, specially since you have a wife who can help you with the language, might be to get involved in the many projects that help street children in Bangkok. A little drop might go a long way.

[Gone]

You did everything you could have except let your wife give them some money. Thai's often do this as do I when I feel it is the right time as you cannot do it to everyone every day. I might not give money for months then one day I see someone and decide it is the time so I drop some coins in. Nothing wrong with helping other human beings.

The longer you stay in Bkk the more you will see it and the less you will worry about it so to speak but your heart is in the right place and you decide to make a stand in any way then the rest of us should back you up on this. It's sad and sickening that the parents let this happen especially in the sun.

[MEL1]

You did everything you could have except let your wife give them some money. Thai's often do this as do I when I feel it is the right time as you cannot do it to everyone every day. I might not give money for months then one day I see someone and decide it is the time so I drop some coins in. Nothing wrong with helping other human beings.

The longer you stay in Bkk the more you will see it and the less you will worry about it so to speak but your heart is in the right place and you decide to make a stand in any way then the rest of us should back you up on this. It's sad and sickening that the parents let this happen especially in the sun.

It is sometimes ok to give money, but in reality you can't help them all. If you did, you'd end up on the streets begging yourself.

One note to point out though: Be very very careful in trying to intefere or help strongly. Never forget that you are in a third world country, and why would you try to convince yourself that Thailand isn't like the South Americas or African areas with slums and beggars. It is a perception only, because you expect (we) more because you (we) love the country.

Why don't the Thais passing interject? It isn't normally culturally acceptable to interfere with another's business - that's truly why.

If your next-door neighbour is arguing and beating his wife do you call the Police? NO WAY! You'd be asking for all sorts of future troubles. One turns a blind eye to personal rigours and business. It's the way it is. (I agree, I'd love to interfere sometimes, but it is the Thais who have to change their ways and their reality of neighbourly care, not farang. That may sound callous, indeed, but it is the Thai way - despite our knowledge and experience of western ways - Thailand is nowhere near that yet.

I'm afraid to say 'sad but true'. (post not directed at 'you' Gone, but you as in 'we' in general terms - replace you for 'one')

-mel.

[lovetotravel]

You did everything you could have except let your wife give them some money. Thai's often do this as do I when I feel it is the right time as you cannot do it to everyone every day. I might not give money for months then one day I see someone and decide it is the time so I drop some coins in. Nothing wrong with helping other human beings.

The longer you stay in Bkk the more you will see it and the less you will worry about it so to speak but your heart is in the right place and you decide to make a stand in any way then the rest of us should back you up on this. It's sad and sickening that the parents let this happen especially in the sun.

Don't mean to be rude here, but giving money is not the right thing to do. It just encourages this type of behavior. Many times they borrow (or steal) these babies/kids. One was found not long ago who had been kidnapped many years ago and had been forced to beg for years.

Best bet is to give food, clothing and for sure call the authorities. Though calling the authorities is for sure a hit and miss thing.

[lovetotravel]

Read this. One reason I don't give money any more:

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/04/gang-profits-from-maimed-child-beggars/

[Bakseedaa]

You did everything you could have except let your wife give them some money. Thai's often do this as do I when I feel it is the right time as you cannot do it to everyone every day. I might not give money for months then one day I see someone and decide it is the time so I drop some coins in. Nothing wrong with helping other human beings.

The longer you stay in Bkk the more you will see it and the less you will worry about it so to speak but your heart is in the right place and you decide to make a stand in any way then the rest of us should back you up on this. It's sad and sickening that the parents let this happen especially in the sun.

Unluckily these peoples are not Thai ... they are shipped in , by gangs from Cambodia and Lao, of course with the paid blessings of Thai officials.. the same happens in Greece and many other places.. its called "life"

[TexasRanger]

I never give to beggar kids since my wife told me that some kids were stolen from villages and even crippled so they can beg in Bangkok and other places. I don't ever want to encourage that kind of business. Life sucks sometimes.

[lovetotravel]

You did everything you could have except let your wife give them some money. Thai's often do this as do I when I feel it is the right time as you cannot do it to everyone every day. I might not give money for months then one day I see someone and decide it is the time so I drop some coins in. Nothing wrong with helping other human beings.

The longer you stay in Bkk the more you will see it and the less you will worry about it so to speak but your heart is in the right place and you decide to make a stand in any way then the rest of us should back you up on this. It's sad and sickening that the parents let this happen especially in the sun.

Unluckily these peoples are not Thai ... they are shipped in , by gangs from Cambodia and Lao, of course with the paid blessings of Thai officials.. the same happens in Greece and many other places.. its called "life"

Actually it's called corruption and crimes against humanity.

[Heimdallr]

We should be disgusted at the officials who willingly let this crap go on day after day.

[phuturatica]

I have seen this specific baby at Phrom Phong station and I alerted the authorities. Then a woman came and picked up the baby and walked off away from the police officer and the police officer told me to go away. I'm assuming that he told her not to leave her baby there and she just said a few words and walked off. The mother looked like a drunken tramp on drugs. I have passed a few times after this incident though and not seen the baby there. Kinda sad that she has gone back to dumping her baby there though.

The mother needs punching in the face and her children need putting into better care.

[lovetotravel]

I have seen this specific baby at Phrom Phong station and I alerted the authorities. Then a woman came and picked up the baby and walked off away from the police officer and the police officer told me to go away. I'm assuming that he told her not to leave her baby there and she just said a few words and walked off. The mother looked like a drunken tramp on drugs. I have passed a few times after this incident though and not seen the baby there. Kinda sad that she has gone back to dumping her baby there though.

The mother needs punching in the face and her children need putting into better care.

Not unusual for the police to be in on it.

[brit1984]

Thanks for the replies. This experience has certainly made my wife and I want to become involved with some charities for children (any suggestions welcome). The mention of criminal gangs worries me slightly as I normally have my daughter in my arms or by my side, so I do not want to cause confrontation. However, I cannot ignore a young baby burning to death in the midday sun. I hope everybody who reads this will also take it upon himself/herself to try to help any other children they come across in similar situations. I understand some things are different here than in the west but child abuse/neglect is not acceptable anywhere in any circumstances and we should at least try to help.

[stoneyboy]

While its a nice gesture to help,i feel you may become rather busy if you want to get involved with every case you see such as this,while it maybe heartbreaking to witness its even more heartbreaking knowing that the powers that be allow it to continue.

[strollling]

From what I've seen Thai parents do with their kids these two might have been better off by themselves for the day.

[strollling]

The mother needs punching in the face and her children need putting into better care.

I'm not sure it's that easy to have them immediately adopted by a foreign couple.

[DP25]

You did everything you could have except let your wife give them some money. Thai's often do this as do I when I feel it is the right time as you cannot do it to everyone every day. I might not give money for months then one day I see someone and decide it is the time so I drop some coins in. Nothing wrong with helping other human beings.

The longer you stay in Bkk the more you will see it and the less you will worry about it so to speak but your heart is in the right place and you decide to make a stand in any way then the rest of us should back you up on this. It's sad and sickening that the parents let this happen especially in the sun.

Unluckily these peoples are not Thai ... they are shipped in , by gangs from Cambodia and Lao, of course with the paid blessings of Thai officials.. the same happens in Greece and many other places.. its called "life"

Yup. Most of the beggars you see in Bangkok are Cambodian. That's where they get the cripples too, they are usually Cambodian land mine victims.

Whenever they have a big international conference in Bangkok, they will deport them all back to Cambodia. A couple weeks later they will all be back. There is nothing for them there, no matter how many times they are deported they will come back.

[brit1984]

For clarification (as my previous post seems to have caused some confusion) I am not suggesting giving money to beggars (better give the money to related charities). My real point is that people should not ignore children who are in perilous situations (such as the one I encountered unattended lying asleep in the sun). Also giving these children milk/food/nappies/clothes shouldn't benefit any criminal gangs. Please forgive any newby ignorance on my part - I may not know where these children came from (or why this has happened) I am just suggesting we should not ignore them.

[richard_smith237]

For clarification (as my previous post seems to have caused some confusion) I am not suggesting giving money to beggars (better give the money to related charities). My real point is that people should not ignore children who are in perilous situations (such as the one I encountered unattended lying asleep in the sun). Also giving these children milk/food/nappies/clothes shouldn't benefit any criminal gangs. Please forgive any newby ignorance on my part - I may not know where these children came from (or why this has happened) I am just suggesting we should not ignore them.

Your posts were extremely clear. Its not your fault that the low reading age of some of the other posters causes them confusion.

[brit1984]

I am afraid I don't fully understand the relevance of "planes flying into buildings" to this thread (maybe more newbie ignorance on my part).

For further clarification my original post is about young humans, not pigeons (sorry if I did not make that clear).

Khunkhen, I know (I hope) you are only jesting but these children are real people same as me and you.

[craigt3365]

One inappropriate post has been removed from view, along with an associated reply. Apologies to the member whose reply was deleted.

I suggest the member's whose post was removed please reread our forum rules. Especially this one:

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

We take this rule seriously.

Regards to the OP on his attempts to help the less fortunate among us.

There was a series of articles a number of years ago where they followed a group of beggars from in and around the Khao San Road area. If my memory is correct, the reporter was seriously threatened and had to back off. OP: please be careful. There are a number of agencies that do provide help to homeless and abused children. Not sure where they are in Bangkok, but here in Pattaya, there are anumber of them, Father Ray's being a big one. If I run across something, I'll let you know. Or, try a new post asking for this in the General forum.

[asanee]

yes, 99,99% of those beggars with babies in central BKK are KHmer/Cambodians. I speak Khmer and asked them-spoke to them. Later I found that they now are instructed to keep silent. The stories about mafia etc-take it with a big grain of salt. It simple means they pay (on credit) a few 1000 THB to some Khmer middelmen who arranges all the transport, housing (many live in Bangpakok-over the river, perhaps even with husbands who works for a pittance in some factory) and the babies will not expressly be crippled, but many are born that way-and rented out by their real parents for some kickbacks. In TH any thing related with corruption/covermoney etc is named mafia as a shortfrase. Any taxidriver being sent away from a overclear non-parking place is also directly telling ''mafia''! and cannot believe this might actually be a simple enforced rule. Why is it so hard for people to accept facts as they are and need to see conspiracies everywhere? The tipical Isan labourer follows the same path-he pays some agent for a job here in BKK-likely also on credit and pays back with a heavy mark-up. Ditto for Khmer-they can legally stay 30 days as ASEAN and there is in fact a large rotating pool of such people. Any trick that preys on the weak feelings of whiteys is spread around like wildfire among them- laugh at it and just admire their ingenuity. Same as for those tukstuksdriver spreying on newby tourists, etc.

[Heimdallr]

yes, 99,99% of those beggars with babies in central BKK are KHmer/Cambodians. I speak Khmer and asked them-spoke to them. Later I found that they now are instructed to keep silent. The stories about mafia etc-take it with a big grain of salt. It simple means they pay (on credit) a few 1000 THB to some Khmer middelmen who arranges all the transport, housing (many live in Bangpakok-over the river, perhaps even with husbands who works for a pittance in some factory) and the babies will not expressly be crippled, but many are born that way-and rented out by their real parents for some kickbacks. In TH any thing related with corruption/covermoney etc is named mafia as a shortfrase. Any taxidriver being sent away from a overclear non-parking place is also directly telling ''mafia''! and cannot believe this might actually be a simple enforced rule. Why is it so hard for people to accept facts as they are and need to see conspiracies everywhere? The tipical Isan labourer follows the same path-he pays some agent for a job here in BKK-likely also on credit and pays back with a heavy mark-up. Ditto for Khmer-they can legally stay 30 days as ASEAN and there is in fact a large rotating pool of such people. Any trick that preys on the weak feelings of whiteys is spread around like wildfire among them- laugh at it and just admire their ingenuity. Same as for those tukstuksdriver spreying on newby tourists, etc.

When people say mafia they often mean organized crime. It is no conspiracy to think there is organized crime behind them - why else would the police avoid touching the issue(s)? Everything you mentioned is highly unethical and to anyone concerned about rights of the children, or people in general for that matter), is unacceptable.

[strollling]

Everything you mentioned is highly unethical and to anyone concerned about rights of the children, or people in general for that matter), is unacceptable.

Unethical and unacceptable for you perhaps.

But what you find unethical and unacceptable counts for nothing and matters not. You aren't Thai, they do not care what you think.

[Heimdallr]

Unethical and unacceptable for you perhaps.

But what you find unethical and unacceptable counts for nothing and matters not. You aren't Thai, they do not care what you think.

Excuse me, I meant to say unethical and unacceptable to anyone who values human life. I guess for some people it's ok not to care if it's not happening in their backyard.

[lovetotravel]

Everything you mentioned is highly unethical and to anyone concerned about rights of the children, or people in general for that matter), is unacceptable.

Unethical and unacceptable for you perhaps.

But what you find unethical and unacceptable counts for nothing and matters not. You aren't Thai, they do not care what you think.

Don't lump all Thai's together. There's plenty who do work for the homeless, get up early and feed the monks, take care of poor people. Most Thai's are very good people, and do care what others think. Politicians aside.

[DP25]

yes, 99,99% of those beggars with babies in central BKK are KHmer/Cambodians. I speak Khmer and asked them-spoke to them. Later I found that they now are instructed to keep silent. The stories about mafia etc-take it with a big grain of salt. It simple means they pay (on credit) a few 1000 THB to some Khmer middelmen who arranges all the transport, housing (many live in Bangpakok-over the river, perhaps even with husbands who works for a pittance in some factory) and the babies will not expressly be crippled, but many are born that way-and rented out by their real parents for some kickbacks. In TH any thing related with corruption/covermoney etc is named mafia as a shortfrase. Any taxidriver being sent away from a overclear non-parking place is also directly telling ''mafia''! and cannot believe this might actually be a simple enforced rule. Why is it so hard for people to accept facts as they are and need to see conspiracies everywhere? The tipical Isan labourer follows the same path-he pays some agent for a job here in BKK-likely also on credit and pays back with a heavy mark-up. Ditto for Khmer-they can legally stay 30 days as ASEAN and there is in fact a large rotating pool of such people. Any trick that preys on the weak feelings of whiteys is spread around like wildfire among them- laugh at it and just admire their ingenuity. Same as for those tukstuksdriver spreying on newby tourists, etc.

When people say mafia they often mean organized crime. It is no conspiracy to think there is organized crime behind them - why else would the police avoid touching the issue(s)? Everything you mentioned is highly unethical and to anyone concerned about rights of the children, or people in general for that matter), is unacceptable.

They already get deported from time to time. They keep coming back. There isn't much the police can do, so they just ignore them. There are even farang beggars and homeless they ignore. Believe it or not some police feel bad for people too and just leave them alone. There are even more illegal immigrants in my country and most police do nothing about them either, they just ignore them.

[craigt3365]

Agree with Mel, another inappropriate post has been removed from view. Let's keep it civil guys.