Inverted Racism In Thailand......

[Sing_Sling]

. I don't think Australia, USA are good comparators to Thailand.

SC

Absolutely - I was nit-picking on Samran's sentence:

in whatever country you go to.

Come on, that is a bit disingenuous isn't it?

It was disingenuous, but it was reply to your moving the goalposts about Thainess - it was an obtuse comment on your part. At least it drove you to remind me of something that I'd forgotten long ago:

a Winne Blue smoking, ute driving, chicko role eating

The real ockers have gone from red to blue now, have they? Utes? Can't afford them anymore and chicko rolls are now made healthy so it's more like Winnie blues smoking, Toyota or Kia driving, hamburger with beetroot eating, blue-faded-singlet wearing, green-daks wearing yob with knee-length socks

The point is, however, that irrespective of how Thai you may feel . . . you will always be seen as a foreigner simply by the fact that you don't look SEAsian.

[MrJohnson]

You make some very good points, but I note part of your comment;

A Thai passport has never been an 'access all area's pass', nor should it be viewed that way. What it does allow you to do is play off as level as playing field you are going to get in Thailand.

Where it counts - under the law, you are accepted 100% (well 99% as there is technically a 5 year wait to vote).

I object, or at least wish to point out that there is no level playing field for a foreigner, whether as a visa holder or as a naturalised citizen. There is an inherent bias in the system against those that have a foreign name or physical characteristics. For most Thais, the playing feild is tipped in favour of those that have money and connections/status. The foreigner starts out with that disadvantage that is then worsened because of his/her origin. In a serious dispute, the only asset that can help a foreigner is money. I don't doubt that some foreigners who gain citizenship can be happy and relatively successful, but with the rare exception, none will ever make it into the inner circle of Thai privilige. One has to have a Thai name and a Thai face for that. Really no different than some other countries. One need only look at the snide comments made about the former UK ambassador to Thailand. He wasn't considered British enough for some because of his ethnic origins and name. When push comes to shove, a farang is a farang even if a Thai citizen.

Thanks GK. But, this is why I phrased it : What it does allow you to do is play off as level as playing field you are going to get in Thailand.

The only think I note is that I disagree with you characterization of 'Thai privileged'. Having from time to time a bit of exposure to it, I don't think that there is some sort of small club with hangs out at the RBSC pulling the strings in Thailand.

What is interesting, is how much politics that goes on and how much they hate each other. Perhaps hate, is too strong a word, but there is always the need to 'beat' the other guy.

Sure there is a level of civility, and they play their personality politics hard - regardless of how you look or your name.

Sorry I have to disagree with a small part of your post - respectfully. I was having lunch at the RBSC only last week and there were quite a few puppet-masters in attendance. Seriously.

[samran]

The point is, however, that irrespective of how Thai you may feel . . . you will always be seen as a foreigner simply by the fact that you don't look SEAsian.

Well, I don't blame someone for making that assumption based on my appearance, but if I had a dollar for every time a Taxi driver has said after I've given them directions "Oh sorry, I thought you were a foreigner/didn't realise you were Thai ", then it would be a nice addition to my income. Opening my mouth, changes everything.

[nontabury]

I really doubt that an effective ASEAN will happen for a long, long time to come and Thailand will still drag its feet on far too many issues to make it worthwhile taking Thai citizenship.

Most corporate working expats in Singapore and Malaysia will keep going the the way they are . . . while Thailand stagnates

There certainly are a lot of birthing pains to the Asean community but we in Europe should remember that we had to endure WW2 before the idea of the European Community was born.

We have had a lifetime of peace in Europe, if that is all the EC has achieved then I would suggest it has been a resounding success and long may it continue.

I hope the Asean countries eventually manage to get the same level of cooperation going. One major problem preventing that coming to fruition though is the astounding level of Asian on Asian racism.

Yes, the EC has many faults, but one success is that it has stopped wars between the main european countries, lets hope that the

nationalism that is now sprouting up in certain areas does not lead to the return of narrow minded tribes, or has it already?

[Sing_Sling]

The point is, however, that irrespective of how Thai you may feel . . . you will always be seen as a foreigner simply by the fact that you don't look SEAsian.

Well, I don't blame someone for making that assumption based on my appearance, but if I had a dollar for every time a Taxi driver has said after I've given them directions "Oh sorry, I thought you were a foreigner/didn't realise you were Thai ", then it would be a nice addition to my income. Opening my mouth, changes everything.

I can't count the number of times I have won bets about my being 'Thai' . . . just by showing them my ID card which shows my birthplace as Bangkok . . . my staff used to like making bets on the side with customers as well.

But Thai I would never be as it is more than just a piece of paper that denotes what one is

[theblether]

why in hell do you think a swiss want become thai?

swiss are the cream of the crab!we are unique!

I've always wanted to be the Cream of the Crab

[endure]

why in hell do you think a swiss want become thai?

swiss are the cream of the crab!we are unique!

I've always wanted to be the Cream of the Crab

You'll be needing some Proderm then.

[theblether]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered (or is that tarred and blethered?), I'm going to go into bat for NMT on this one. He is one of the few people qualified to comment - that is a statement of fact. I don't know how that can be looked upon as trying to degenerate?

Your right, it would be Tarred and Blethered and it's not a pretty sight

If he wants to occupy the high ground it is only fair that he is asked for his credentials, now that you have stepped forward and verified his credentials we will be all the better for knowing that.

You may not be aware but it's not the first time I have indicated to NMT that if he would sweeten his delivery a little bit then he could be a wealth of knowledge and experience.

Rather than do that he appears to revel in being obtuse and confrontational, to the point that every time I see one of his posts I need to work out if he is trolling or not.

Surely that is a loss for everyone? To add to that he now is flying under the wing of your credibility so his actions will be a reflection upon your wise and wonderful self, so go hit him a kick and tell him to be a gentleman and stop scaring us little farangs please.

Consider yourself well and truly Blethered, tarring available by request.

[theblether]

why in hell do you think a swiss want become thai?

swiss are the cream of the crab!we are unique!

I've always wanted to be the Cream of the Crab

You'll be needing some Proderm then.

Hold on.....I'm going to Google Proderm and see what it is..............

OK.....I'll take two!! Can't be too careful you know

[smokie36]

why in hell do you think a swiss want become thai?

swiss are the cream of the crab!we are unique!

I've always wanted to be the Cream of the Crab

You'll be needing some Proderm then.

Hold on.....I'm going to Google Proderm and see what it is..............

OK.....I'll take two!! Can't be too careful you know

It comes as a tube....would you like one squirt or two sir?

[samran]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered (or is that tarred and blethered?), I'm going to go into bat for NMT on this one. He is one of the few people qualified to comment - that is a statement of fact. I don't know how that can be looked upon as trying to degenerate?

Your right, it would be Tarred and Blethered and it's not a pretty sight

If he wants to occupy the high ground it is only fair that he is asked for his credentials, now that you have stepped forward and verified his credentials we will be all the better for knowing that.

You may not be aware but it's not the first time I have indicated to NMT that if he would sweeten his delivery a little bit then he could be a wealth of knowledge and experience.

Rather than do that he appears to revel in being obtuse and confrontational, to the point that every time I see one of his posts I need to work out if he is trolling or not.

Surely that is a loss for everyone? To add to that he now is flying under the wing of your credibility so his actions will be a reflection upon your wise and wonderful self, so go hit him a kick and tell him to be a gentleman and stop scaring us little farangs please.

Consider yourself well and truly Blethered, tarring available by request.

geez, I didn't realise I had any credibility..... fark. This is bound to blow up in my face!

[samran]

The point is, however, that irrespective of how Thai you may feel . . . you will always be seen as a foreigner simply by the fact that you don't look SEAsian.

Well, I don't blame someone for making that assumption based on my appearance, but if I had a dollar for every time a Taxi driver has said after I've given them directions "Oh sorry, I thought you were a foreigner/didn't realise you were Thai ", then it would be a nice addition to my income. Opening my mouth, changes everything.

I can't count the number of times I have won bets about my being 'Thai' . . . just by showing them my ID card which shows my birthplace as Bangkok . . . my staff used to like making bets on the side with customers as well.

But Thai I would never be as it is more than just a piece of paper that denotes what one is

Sure, Sling_Sling. We can't all be perfect.

[Trembly]

You make some very good points, but I note part of your comment;

A Thai passport has never been an 'access all area's pass', nor should it be viewed that way. What it does allow you to do is play off as level as playing field you are going to get in Thailand.

Where it counts - under the law, you are accepted 100% (well 99% as there is technically a 5 year wait to vote).

I object, or at least wish to point out that there is no level playing field for a foreigner, whether as a visa holder or as a naturalised citizen. There is an inherent bias in the system against those that have a foreign name or physical characteristics. For most Thais, the playing feild is tipped in favour of those that have money and connections/status. The foreigner starts out with that disadvantage that is then worsened because of his/her origin. In a serious dispute, the only asset that can help a foreigner is money. I don't doubt that some foreigners who gain citizenship can be happy and relatively successful, but with the rare exception, none will ever make it into the inner circle of Thai privilige. One has to have a Thai name and a Thai face for that. Really no different than some other countries. One need only look at the snide comments made about the former UK ambassador to Thailand. He wasn't considered British enough for some because of his ethnic origins and name. When push comes to shove, a farang is a farang even if a Thai citizen.

Thanks GK. But, this is why I phrased it : What it does allow you to do is play off as level as playing field you are going to get in Thailand.

The only think I note is that I disagree with you characterization of 'Thai privileged'. Having from time to time a bit of exposure to it, I don't think that there is some sort of small club with hangs out at the RBSC pulling the strings in Thailand.

What is interesting, is how much politics that goes on and how much they hate each other. Perhaps hate, is too strong a word, but there is always the need to 'beat' the other guy.

Sure there is a level of civility, and they play their personality politics hard - regardless of how you look or your name.

Sorry I have to disagree with a small part of your post - respectfully. I was having lunch at the RBSC only last week and there were quite a few puppet-masters in attendance. Seriously.

Who cares? "but you'll never get to be one of the puppet masters at the RBSC" sounds like an rather feeble excuse to me. Seriously, who comes to Thailand, makes some kind of life for himself here and likes it enough to stay but then decides not to bother because he just realised that his race precludes him from becoming one of the oligarchs in this foreign country?

[Trembly]

Culture = successful politics.