Australian Charity Head Accused Of Faking The Rescue Of Thai Hill Tribe Children Resigns

[TAWP]

SamSiam>> Care to explain why they lied about the rescue and staged faked photos?

They didn't....

They did.

See the OP.

[samsiam]

If you thought I thought that I thought that GM faked it....why are you asking me to prove they did not fake it ??

You are just going round in circles .

His organisation faked photos and lied about rescues of children that they did not carry out, using photos that were not of trafficked children.

He was found out and had to resign.

End of story.

But it is not the end of the story because nobody knows the exact full story....only what they read which is certainly not the entire story and facts involved.

[kerryk]

If you thought I thought that I thought that GM faked it....why are you asking me to prove they did not fake it ??

You are just going round in circles .

His organisation faked photos and lied about rescues of children that they did not carry out, using photos that were not of trafficked children.

He was found out and had to resign.

End of story.

But it is not the end of the story because nobody knows the exact full story....only what they read which is certainly not the entire story and facts involved.

It certainly is the end of the story for Grey Man, Curtis AKA McBride. He is gone and has said he would no longer comment. The facts are in and the decision has been made. He is out.

Edited April 6, 2012 by kerryk

[softgeorge]

Could you tell me again what you are seeking ??

Sure. I said the Grey Man faked a rescue of Hill Tribe children and that fact is supported by legitimate media and Police in both Thailand and Australia and in fact is the subject of this thread on Thai Visa. Hence open to libel laws and litigation in the courts if the information is false.

You said he didn't fake it. What legitimate source willing to be published and subject to the same libel laws can you quote in support of your position?

In the vernacular, “put up or shut up.”

It is "NOT" supported by Police in Australia.

Time line.

Meeting of representatives of the Ministry of Social Development and Human Security (DSI), Trafcord (the anti-trafficking co-ordination unit of Northern Thailand) and the National Committee on Trafficking.

AFP officers had been summoned to the meeting on Saturday at the DSI headquarters in Bangkok to hear the complaints. The AFP did not comment, but a source at the meeting said the AFP representative had asked the DSI to make the request formal through the normal channels.

Jan 9 2012. Australian Federal Police, Thailand investigate claims of fake rescue of children from sex slavery.

The move follows complaints that The Grey Man, which claims it is comprised of ex-police officers and special services veterans, faked the rescue of 21 Akha hill tribe children from the village of Baan Khun Suay in Chiang Rai province of northern Thailand last October.

The Grey Man's Brisbane-based president, John Curtis, said yesterday he had no difficulties with any investigation by either the Thai government or the AFP.

Sex-slave charity head quits amid row.

The founder of an Australian charity that won renown and donors for undercover operations to rescue underage sex workers in Thailand has resigned following allegations that the organization exaggerated the success of its missions, Melbourne daily The Agereports.

Former Australian army commando Sean McBride stepped down from the Grey Man charity at the weekend following new claims about the organisation and an investigation into the hill tribes children by Thailand’s Department of Special Investigation

You say that the Australian Federal Police support the FACT that it was staged, Where have the AFP said or confirmed it was a staged rescue? The AFP have never come to a conclusion of any such type. The AFP are Australian Police and not Thai and as such they conduct an investigation prior to making comments and Australian Police DO NOT determine guilt or inocence.

These are false allegations trumped up by Trafcord and a person within who wanted a position on the greyman board and for the greyman to donate part of it's funds to trafcord which was refused. Watch this space....

[softgeorge]

If you thought I thought that I thought that GM faked it....why are you asking me to prove they did not fake it ??

You are just going round in circles .

His organisation faked photos and lied about rescues of children that they did not carry out, using photos that were not of trafficked children.

He was found out and had to resign.

End of story.

But it is not the end of the story because nobody knows the exact full story....only what they read which is certainly not the entire story and facts involved.

It certainly is the end of the story for Grey Man, Curtis AKA McBride. He is gone and has said he would no longer comment. The facts are in and the decision has been made. He is out.

It is far from the end of the story for the grey man, you are clutching at straws.

[kerryk]

George, I don't have a dog in the hunt. I don't care much what happens to Curtis or McBride or whatever he calls himself. I was just reading the news that quoted him as saying he was done with Grey Man. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives. It is just a matter of time till the Aussies find out the age that Hill Tribe women get married and boy will that shake them up. I can see an Aussie guys group trying to change the marriage laws and customs in large parts of SEA. I am sure they are well intentioned fellows but I think they should worry about the sex trafficking and criminal problems before trying to solve the problems of the rest of the world. We already have a number of countries doing that and it is not working out so well, Of course unless you think Australia should be more like the USA.

[samsiam]

. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

They are not and you seem to have a hard time understanding....they deal with underage child sex.

[kerryk]

. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

They are not and you seem to have a hard time understanding....they deal with underage child sex.

You my fellow are completely wrong. Read the Grey Man website. How old is a child BTW? And at what age do Hill Tribe women get married?

Edited April 6, 2012 by kerryk

[TAWP]

The children quoted as being rescued was proven by journalists to not have been rescued - as they were never kidnapped or trafficked.

Anyone want to claim something else?

[kerryk]

. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

They are not and you seem to have a hard time understanding....they deal with underage child sex.

Google Image Grey Man Rescue. The images were provided by Grey Man. Do they look like children to you?

Edited April 7, 2012 by kerryk

[samsiam]

No they do not....but the second one is cute....where did they resuce her from ??

And where is your proof that those 3 were actually rescued ?? as opposed to just a photo of someone....

You seem to have a issue with people doing good things to rescue children from sexual abuse.....up to you as they say.....you would not get a seat at my table.

[kerryk]

No they do not....but the second one is cute....where did they resuce her from ??

And where is your proof that those 3 were actually rescued ?? as opposed to just a photo of someone....

You seem to have a issue with people doing good things to rescue children from sexual abuse.....up to you as they say.....you would not get a seat at my table.

I have noticed when the moral majority is wrong they have a tendency to personally attack and or question my morals rather than the facts of the issue. I'll leave you to dinner with your moral friends and for after dinner reading you can try the following.

Angela Savage suggest, “What if bored ex-Thai military operatives motivated by “a desire to put something back” formed an organisation with a mission to rescue children from sexual abuse in Australia? Given that most sexual abuse of children in Australia takes place at the hand of someone known to the child, how would we feel about Thai commandos raiding private homes? Wouldn’t we be outraged if the local police were not always involved?

After that I read that I read KNIGHTS OF THE TWILIGHT ZONE from the Sydney Morning Herald to find out who worked for Grey Man and what they did. The following are excerpts from that story.

"As we sit in a go-go bar watching topless Thai women slide down from the ceiling on a pole, Craig Henry explains that one of his great regrets is that he never joined the SAS, I am the kind of guy who continually needs to be challenged and I suppose the work I do with TGM [The Grey Man] satisfies that need."

"He was also a bit of a drifter, with three kids to three different mothers - twice married and twice divorced, (He now has a pretty, 30-year-old Thai girlfriend whom he met when she was a waitress in a restaurant.) The organisation seems to appeal to such men, who want to do good deeds but also want a bit of action. "

"The Grey Man's preferred method of extraction is to act as a client and take the young girl out of the brothel to a hotel room where a social worker and an interpreter are waiting."

End of quotes.

Sam you have obviously not read much about the Grey Man or what he does or how he does it.

The Empower foundation working with women in Thailand for more than 20 years suggests what happens with anti trafficking raiders is far worse than what happens without them.

So I will state my belief again that I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

[OLDAUSSIE]

. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

They are not and you seem to have a hard time understanding....they deal with underage child sex.

Google Image Grey Man Rescue. The images were provided by Grey Man. Do they look like children to you?

Would you like to put a link as to where you found these images?????

[kerryk]

. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

They are not and you seem to have a hard time understanding....they deal with underage child sex.

Google Image Grey Man Rescue. The images were provided by Grey Man. Do they look like children to you?

Would you like to put a link as to where you found these images?????

www.aapone.com.au/Search.aspx?search=THAILAND...

http://www.aapone.com.au/Search.aspx?search=THAILAND+SEX+WORKER+RESCUE

I don't think it works if you are outside of Australia or NZ to copy the pics but you can view them. I was having problems linking it. There are many more images there submitted by Grey Man.

In case it is of any help to you all you have to do is go to Google image and load in the photo and you get the link plus a lot more of young women in what looks like a police station after they were arrested/rescued by Grey Man.

[flyingsporran]

. For my money I don't think men, especially para military men who don't speak Thai and the other dialects should have anything to do with telling Asian women what to do or not do with their bodies or lives.

They are not and you seem to have a hard time understanding....they deal with underage child sex.

Google Image Grey Man Rescue. The images were provided by Grey Man. Do they look like children to you?

Would you like to put a link as to where you found these images?????

The images have been on the Grey Man Facebook page which has been up and down like a yo yo.

[softgeorge]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

[samsiam]

I can hear kerry now.....'got any proof to go with that' ??

Edited April 8, 2012 by samsiam

[chooka]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

True the greyman doe's only provide the intel and doesn't do the raids or actual rescues. They will be in the background and assist ("Assist") with the aftercare. (re housing, medical, education etc.) They final analysis on who is actually rescued is based on what such agencies such as trafcorp etc provide and the greyman will take credit for the resue based on thier investigation and intel provided that lead to a raid,

[kerryk]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

True the greyman doe's only provide the intel and doesn't do the raids or actual rescues. They will be in the background and assist ("Assist") with the aftercare. (re housing, medical, education etc.) They final analysis on who is actually rescued is based on what such agencies such as trafcorp etc provide and the greyman will take credit for the resue based on thier investigation and intel provided that lead to a raid,

http://thegreyman.or...d=116&Itemid=91

From the Grey Mans website, ""The Grey Man's preferred method of extraction is to act as a client and take the young girl out of the brothel to a hotel room where a social worker and an interpreter are waiting" George, you said the Grey Man does not do the raids. Why would he write the above?

Edited April 8, 2012 by kerryk

[softgeorge]

I can hear kerry now.....'got any proof to go with that' ??

I have P.M'd him a couple of times but he ignores what I tell him and comes back with his own unsubstantiated theories.

[kerryk]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

I downloaded those pics because Sam wrote the Grey Man only deals with children. Grey Man busts brothels in Pattaya and other places in Thailand. Young women not children are involved.

What authority does Grey Man currently have to operate in Thailand.

BTW are the women who Grey Man arrests/rescues free to leave the homes he puts them in? Or are they held their against their will?

[softgeorge]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

True the greyman doe's only provide the intel and doesn't do the raids or actual rescues. They will be in the background and assist ("Assist") with the aftercare. (re housing, medical, education etc.) They final analysis on who is actually rescued is based on what such agencies such as trafcorp etc provide and the greyman will take credit for the resue based on thier investigation and intel provided that lead to a raid,

http://thegreyman.or...d=116&Itemid=91

From the Grey Mans website, ""The Grey Man's preferred method of extraction is to act as a client and take the young girl out of the brothel to a hotel room where a social worker and an interpreter are waiting" George, you said the Grey Man does not do the raids. Why would he write the above?

OHHHHH are you talking about raids or one on one contacts. Intel is gathered from one on one, geez can you actually see a difference. You get intel from either a single experience or mutiple this is collated into a total package, a mission is then formulated with all parties and the a raid is conducted if warranted. I hope I have set this out in simple terms. The greyman will not just get together and say lets raid this place and see what happens.

[softgeorge]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

I downloaded those pics because Sam wrote the Grey Man only deals with children. Grey Man busts brothels in Pattaya and other places in Thailand. Young women not children are involved.

What authority does Grey Man currently have to operate in Thailand.

BTW are the women who Grey Man arrests/rescues free to leave the homes he puts them in? Or are they held their against their will?

I will say again and again and again the grey man does not arrest and does not do raids. They greyman operate under the same charter and authority as all NGO's in Thailand, ie auscare, worldvision USAID etc work permits for volunteer work.

[kerryk]

I like the way you make a certain selection of pics Kerryk...... Did you happen to notice who else were actually in the other pics, namely trafcorp? The people to whom that the greyman give thier information to and the people who decide if a raid or not goes ahead after they analysed the information provided to them by the greyman. The people who actually decide who was rescued in the final analysis. The Greyman does not do the actual raids but does take some credit from the results of combined operations after they provide the intel.

Trafcorp who wanted key positions on the Greyman board. People that wanted the greyman funds transfered them and such requests that were denied by the greyman board which consists of Australian Federal Court Judge. The same people who claimed the same credit for rescues, but after being denied access to the funds that would have provided nice new mercs, and kept the girlfriends of certain thais happy they lost serious face. Certain people who cannot revoke the authority of the grey to operate in thailand have decided to try and throw some mud in a serious face saving venture.

True the greyman doe's only provide the intel and doesn't do the raids or actual rescues. They will be in the background and assist ("Assist") with the aftercare. (re housing, medical, education etc.) They final analysis on who is actually rescued is based on what such agencies such as trafcorp etc provide and the greyman will take credit for the resue based on thier investigation and intel provided that lead to a raid,

http://thegreyman.or...d=116&Itemid=91

From the Grey Mans website, ""The Grey Man's preferred method of extraction is to act as a client and take the young girl out of the brothel to a hotel room where a social worker and an interpreter are waiting" George, you said the Grey Man does not do the raids. Why would he write the above?

OHHHHH are you talking about raids or one on one contacts. Intel is gathered from one on one, geez can you actually see a difference. You get intel from either a single experience or mutiple this is collated into a total package, a mission is then formulated with all parties and the a raid is conducted if warranted. I hope I have set this out in simple terms. The greyman will not just get together and say lets raid this place and see what happens.

Grey Man site.

“Henry and Steve Day and another colleague went in, posing as customers, and took three of the girls into the rooms. They then "triggered the raid". Twenty Thai anti-human-trafficking police swarmed the building, guns drawn. I didn't expect to see the level of distress - the girls were terrified," he says. "It really shocked me.”

What does that sound like to you? Gathering Intelligence?

[softgeorge]

@Kerryk

YES.................

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS

Like you say the grey man got the evidence (Intel) the Thai's did the raid.............

I have done enough raids and warrants in my life to know the very clear difference between inteligence gathering and executing raids. If you want to argue the point of difference then my friend you will loose. I do both for a living. Level 1 to level 5 raids.

[kerryk]

@Kerryk

YES.................

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS

Like you say the grey man got the evidence (Intel) the Thai's did the raid.............

I have done enough raids and warrants in my life to know the very clear difference between inteligence gathering and executing raids. If you want to argue the point of difference then my friend you will loose. I do both for a living. Level 1 to level 5 raids.

Well I guess that is a fair point. I think going in a brothel taking a girl to a room, calling the cops and standing there while guys with guns arrest her is being part of the raid. You don't, OK. At least we both agree that Grey Man busts brothels and gets people arrested and those people are not pre pubescent children.

[softgeorge]

@Kerryk

YES.................

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS

Like you say the grey man got the evidence (Intel) the Thai's did the raid.............

I have done enough raids and warrants in my life to know the very clear difference between inteligence gathering and executing raids. If you want to argue the point of difference then my friend you will loose. I do both for a living. Level 1 to level 5 raids.

Well I guess that is a fair point. I think going in a brothel taking a girl to a room, calling the cops and standing there while guys with guns arrest her is being part of the raid. You don't, OK. At least we both agree that Grey Man busts brothels and gets people arrested and those people are not pre pubescent children.

No we don't agree, The grey man's aim is to stop those that feed the pedophiles and not about busting brothels. two very different things, sometimes paths cross.

[TAWP]

Has anyone explained how faking rescues is the sign of a good charity yet?

[chooka]

Has anyone explained how faking rescues is the sign of a good charity yet?

Has Fedpol concluded or even comenced an investigation and determined if they were faked or are they still only allegations? Has the AFP even considered it even warrants an investigation.

[kerryk]

@Kerryk

YES.................

YEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS

Like you say the grey man got the evidence (Intel) the Thai's did the raid.............

I have done enough raids and warrants in my life to know the very clear difference between inteligence gathering and executing raids. If you want to argue the point of difference then my friend you will loose. I do both for a living. Level 1 to level 5 raids.

Well I guess that is a fair point. I think going in a brothel taking a girl to a room, calling the cops and standing there while guys with guns arrest her is being part of the raid. You don't, OK. At least we both agree that Grey Man busts brothels and gets people arrested and those people are not pre pubescent children.

No we don't agree, The grey man's aim is to stop those that feed the pedophiles and not about busting brothels. two very different things, sometimes paths cross.

I would agree with that with a couple of caveats.

The Grey Man and other anti trafficking groups cause much of the problem by requesting young women from brothel managers (Grey Man does this as per his web site training manual (See “down the rabbit hole”)). At the request of the anti trafficking groups the brothel managers procure underage women. Empower Foundation also points out this problem and also the prison like conditions that the ladies are confined in after their arrest/rescue.

The other thing is the Great White Aussie Hope thing. How would you feel if some bored Thai para military types started busting Aussie brothels and raiding homes of child abusers? What is the difference? There a lot of brothels in Australia and one occasionally reads about under age employees in Aussie brothels. So tell me how you would feel?

So I have only two problems. It is not just Grey Man it is the rescue mentality of white guys saving brown people again and ending up part of the problem instead the solution and the white. superiority complex demonstrated this time instead of the white only Australia policy it is the white morality is better than Asian morality and we will come and fix you. I know you white ex cops and military fellows think you are more moral and better people than Thai cops and military fellows but it is not your country to make those decisions.

That you bribe a few officials to operate in Thailand does not impress me the attitude remains.

Edited April 9, 2012 by kerryk