BTW, I just read on Salon that 1 in 5 republicans are less likely to support Romney because of his Mormonism. Now these folks won't vote for Obama, but some of them may stay home. In a close election, that could easily make the difference. Is this an appealing way to win an election? No. But it's part of politics.

1 in 5 is still a much smaller loss than Obama will suffer after becoming the "first gay president" as all the polls have shown. In 2004 the gay marriage issue gift wrapped the election for George Bush, in 2008 it was defeated in California because Obama brought our more black and hispanic voters who aren't crazy about the idea and in 2012 it will put a nice bow on the election for Romney. Some activists never learn how politics works and just keep suffering set backs.

You're so funny. You haven't kept up, have you? Demonizing gays isn't going to work anymore. The tide has turned. That's why Romney has tread very softly on the Obama gay marriage statement.

Nothing demonizing about it. Just the truth, the FACTS as you like to shout out.

Here's an educational link from across the pond with some familiar highlights...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/mitt-romney/9289994/Barack-Obama-is-facing-his-Jimmy-Carter-moment.html#

The president has tried to distract from America’s economic misery by playing up the so-called culture war. Earlier in the year he decided that he would force Catholic employers to provide contraception to their employees through their insurance plans, and he followed that swipe at social traditionalism by endorsing gay marriage. This embrace of Sixties liberalism has backfired.

----

The unique genius of Romney was his ability to say very conservative things but in a manner that convinced many centrists that he didn’t really mean them. That’s happening again in 2012, as polls indicate that far more Americans think Obama is too Left-wing than believe Romney is too Right-wing.

---

It was only when they [voters in 1980] went into the polling booth and weighed up all the hurt and humiliation of the past four years that they cast their vote against the president. It looks like Barack Obama will be the Jimmy Carter of 2012.

Tory propaganda. Nice try. No cigar. Obama is NOTHING like Carter.

Carter on steroids.

Actually there is very little focus on Romney's religion. I'm talking about that here because I think there should be a full vetting of the MAJOR LEADERSHIP role of Romney in his religion. He isn't just another believer, he was a major leader. I think that is 100 percent legitimate to explore in the vetting of a potential president. He is hiding from the facts, what is he hiding?

Bringing attention to any LEADERSHIP by Romney just reminds people that it is a quality Obama totally lacks.

You are so wrong. If Romney thought his history being a BISHOP of the MORMON church (which yes a large percentage of Americans DO think is a CULT) would help him politically, he would be making ads about, talking about it. He says not a word about it! He's made it clear the subject is off limits. I say foul. Nothing about him should be off limits. Who does he think he is?

That is indeed a bit rich seeing as one of the first things Obama did when entering office was to have his own records sealed, so every bit of dirt his supporters dig up on Romney can't be countered in the same manner. The hypocrisy is staggering.

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/05/democrats_inadvertenly_open_the_door_to_obamas_past.html

Tory propaganda. Nice try. No cigar. Obama is NOTHING like Carter.

The only difference is Carter wasn't in the pocket of big Labor unions and the Chicago political mob. They were/are both ineffective as President and should have never been elected to hold the office.

Their Middle East policies were/are a disaster. Having worked with Iranians and Saudis during both their terms in office, I can assure you the Muslim mind has absolutely no respect for appeasement. The only way to gain their respect is with a hammer, not a feather. Carter lost Iran and Obama is losing the entire Middle East.

Both men had very poor fiscal results. Obama has done nothing to help the economy except increase the size of the federal government. Tell me again...is the federal government a cost center or a profit center?

The main reason Obama isn't concentrating on Romney's affiliation with the Mormon church is because if he did then he might have to explain why he was a member in Jeremiah Wright's church for 25 years listening, and agreeing with, the black liberation theology that was espoused. Remember the 9/11 sermon..."No, not God bless America. God d*mn America." Wright was put off limits by McCain and seems to be off limits to Romney. If Obama starts with the shitty underwear, it then becomes open season on Wright and 25 years of sermons. Obama's handlers are too smart for that.

Obama's handlers seem to think hitting on Bain's PRIVATE equity investments makes him vulnerable. All it does is open up the opportunity to highlight Obama's own PUBLIC equity investment problems. Think, Beacon, Evergreen Solar, SpectraWatt, AES' subsidiary Eastern Energy, Solyndra, GM, Chrysler and counting.

Solving the unemployment problem has been a joke in this administration. The Department of Labor hasn't been able to manipulate the unemployment level to less than 8% no matter what they try. The real rate is closer to 18%.

The Republican House of Representatives has passed over 30 job bills that are sitting in the Democratic Senate without action. Obama's foil, Harry Reid, refuses to even take the bills under consideration by his Senate. Many of these bills are rolling back regulations put in place by this Administration through the EPA, HHS, Energy and Labor Departments and are job killers.

As a personal note, my son owns a company that handles payroll, government reporting, unemployment and health insurance and other related HR functions for a large group of companies. In my discussions with him, he tells me the small business owners are not hiring because there is so much uncertainty with this administration's policies and in particular with Obamacare. The new regulations are stifling free enterprise. The business owners have no idea how Obamacare will affect them but nearly all of them fear it will not be good. They are also concerned with Obama's "tax the rich" theme and how it might impact their bottom line. They are not hiring nor are many of them replacing when they lose an employee. In short, they are concerned with Obama...period...end of story.

Romney's underwear is hardly an issue considering only a few of the problems facing the US now. Frankly I hope it does come up. I would love to hear how Obama sat in Wright's church for 25 years and never, really, honestly, cross-my-heart-hope-to-die ever heard Wright say some of the things he is credited with saying.

Assuming of course some journalist or talking head had the temerity to really question Obama for a change.

OP, how can you claim Obama is the worst and almost in the same sentence call "the Bush recession".

Bush was the worst president in history, Obama has done his best to straighten out the situation, with what all the Republican wanke_rs constantly whined about while Bush was in office, an opposite party congress in place.

OP-do you blame the car mechanic for the accident when you take your car in for repair after a collision?

All you Obama haters prepare for another four years as you guys don't have squat to run.

Here is a good article which explains why it is so crucial that Obama gets booted out of office this year. His first term involved setting up huge amounts of red tape and ambiguous regulations which can be interpreted as his administration sees fit. Given a second term he will use this clandestine manipulation and abuse of power to destroy America.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/05/obamas_second_term_transformation_plans.html

P.S Expect one last massive cash printing exercise to disguise the ruin of the economy for a few more months - most European stock markets are starting to reflect reality, but reality may be a few more months away stateside, lets hope it comes quickly enough to ensure Obama is kicked out.

crap propaganda

OP, how can you claim Obama is the worst and almost in the same sentence call "the Bush recession".

Bush was the worst president in history, Obama has done his best to straighten out the situation, with what all the Republican wanke_rs constantly whined about while Bush was in office, an opposite party congress in place.

OP-do you blame the car mechanic for the accident when you take your car in for repair after a collision?

All you Obama haters prepare for another four years as you guys don't have squat to run.

Well, I see we have a difference of opinion about who is the worst President in history.

I call it the Bush recession because that is what all the talking heads call it. I could call it the Barney Frank/Chris Dodd recession but only those that know who failed to take action to halt the sub-prime mess would know what I was talking about. Hence, the use of the words...Bush Recession.

I wouldn't blame my mechanic for the accident but if he was unable to repair my car and then tried to give it to somebody else, I might become a tad bit critical of his actions.

PS: Jimmy Carter is second worst. Guess who actually started the sub prime mortgage mess?

crap propaganda

So we can mark you down as not being an "American Thinker" advocate?

http://www.americant...tion_plans.html

Ain't it the truth.

The 2012 election has often been described as the most pivotal since 1860. This statement is not hyperbole. If Barack Obama is re-elected the United States will never be the same, nor will it be able to re-capture its once lofty status as the most dominant nation in the history of mankind.

Read more: http://www.americant...l#ixzz1w2zkeW6j

OP, how can you claim Obama is the worst and almost in the same sentence call "the Bush recession".

Bush was the worst president in history, Obama has done his best to straighten out the situation, with what all the Republican wanke_rs constantly whined about while Bush was in office, an opposite party congress in place.

OP-do you blame the car mechanic for the accident when you take your car in for repair after a collision?

All you Obama haters prepare for another four years as you guys don't have squat to run.

The Dems won both houses of Congress in November 2006 - two years before the financial collapse.

In 2003, the Bush Admin pushed for more regulations over Fannie and Freddie and were blocked by the Democrats led by Democrat Barney Frank - of one of the most liberal states in the country - Massachusetts. A state which btw elected Romney as governor so that shoots down any whining from the left about how far right he is.

Ok, I've had enough of the over the top attacks on religions. There's people of all faiths on this forum, and you will show them respect or be removed.

From a respectful, right wing source. I hope it is OK if I openly ally myself with the many millions of Americans who do not want their president to make decisions based on voices from whatever their God is. That is hardly a radical point of view. It is a view held by I think the majority of American voters. The New York Times link which I previously posted clearly asserts that Romney, just as Bush did, is of the kind of politician that takes direct guidance from their concept of God. That's something I think I expect in countries like Iran. That is something I find distasteful in AMERICA, a SECULAR nation. Practicing a religion is one thing. Making a decision to invade Iraq based on "voices from God" is an entirely different thing!

American exceptionalism is a very problematical ideology:

Or take Mr. Romney’s frequent tributes to American exceptionalism. “I refuse to believe that America is just another place on the map with a flag,” he said in announcing his bid for the presidency last June. Every presidential candidate highlights patriotism, but Mr. Romney’s is backed by the Mormon belief that the United States was chosen by God to play a special role in history, its Constitution divinely inspired.

“He is an unabashed, unapologetic believer that America is the Promised Land,” said Douglas D. Anderson, dean of the business school at Utah State University and a friend, and that leading it is “an obligation and responsibility to God.”

This unchallenged faith in American exceptionalism makes it harder for Americans to understand why others are less enthusiastic about U.S. dominance, often alarmed by U.S. policies, and frequently irritated by what they see as U.S. hypocrisy, whether the subject is possession of nuclear weapons, conformity with international law, or America’s tendency to condemn the conduct of others while ignoring its own failings. Ironically, U.S. foreign policy would probably be more effective if Americans were less convinced of their own unique virtues and less eager to proclaim them.

http://www.theameric...nd-mitt-romney/

This belief that the American constitution was divinely inspired and that America is the promised land in the religious sense: do you seriously believe that is a MAINSTREAM American ideology? I do not. It is well out of the mainstream. Elect Romney and that's what you do get, people do deserve to be aware of that. I want a more MAINSTREAM man, like Barack Hussein Obama to lead my country. Obama said a brilliant thing about American exceptionalism. He said ALL countries feel their countries are exceptional. Exactly correct! Too intellectual and too obviously true perhaps for right wing Americans to accept, but it is totally true.

I want a more MAINSTREAM man, like Barack Hussein Obama to lead my country.

Obama is NOT mainstream. He sometimes pretends to be to get votes, but if he is elected again he will not have that to worry about and can unleash his far-left agenda in earnest. It is crucial that he does not get that chance.

I want a more MAINSTREAM man, like Barack Hussein Obama to lead my country.

Obama is NOT mainstream. He sometimes pretends to be to get votes, but if he is elected again he will not have that to worry about and can unleash his far-left agenda in earnest. It is crucial that he does not get that chance.

Obama is certainly not mainstream judging by his past associates not to mention some of the people he appointed, but I suspect we are not allowed to discuss that.

I want a more MAINSTREAM man, like Barack Hussein Obama to lead my country.

Care to give a couple examples of how Obama is mainstream? Then only one example where he actually led?

The New York Times link which I previously posted clearly asserts that Romney, just as Bush did, is of the kind of politician that takes direct guidance from their concept of God. That's something I think I expect in countries like Iran. That is something I find distasteful in AMERICA, a SECULAR nation. Practicing a religion is one thing. Making a decision to invade Iraq based on "voices from God" is an entirely different thing!

You mean that Bush thought Tony Bliar was God??

I think that that is just a step too illogical to swallow.

From a respectful, right wing source. I hope it is OK if I openly ally myself with the many millions of Americans who do not want their president to make decisions based on voices from whatever their God is. That is hardly a radical point of view. It is a view held by I think the majority of American voters. The New York Times link which I previously posted clearly asserts that Romney, just as Bush did, is of the kind of politician that takes direct guidance from their concept of God. That's something I think I expect in countries like Iran. That is something I find distasteful in AMERICA, a SECULAR nation. Practicing a religion is one thing. Making a decision to invade Iraq based on "voices from God" is an entirely different thing!

American exceptionalism is a very problematical ideology:

Or take Mr. Romney’s frequent tributes to American exceptionalism. “I refuse to believe that America is just another place on the map with a flag,” he said in announcing his bid for the presidency last June. Every presidential candidate highlights patriotism, but Mr. Romney’s is backed by the Mormon belief that the United States was chosen by God to play a special role in history, its Constitution divinely inspired.

“He is an unabashed, unapologetic believer that America is the Promised Land,” said Douglas D. Anderson, dean of the business school at Utah State University and a friend, and that leading it is “an obligation and responsibility to God.”

This unchallenged faith in American exceptionalism makes it harder for Americans to understand why others are less enthusiastic about U.S. dominance, often alarmed by U.S. policies, and frequently irritated by what they see as U.S. hypocrisy, whether the subject is possession of nuclear weapons, conformity with international law, or America’s tendency to condemn the conduct of others while ignoring its own failings. Ironically, U.S. foreign policy would probably be more effective if Americans were less convinced of their own unique virtues and less eager to proclaim them.

http://www.theameric...nd-mitt-romney/

This belief that the American constitution was divinely inspired and that America is the promised land in the religious sense: do you seriously believe that is a MAINSTREAM American ideology? I do not. It is well out of the mainstream. Elect Romney and that's what you do get, people do deserve to be aware of that. I want a more MAINSTREAM man, like Barack Hussein Obama to lead my country. Obama said a brilliant thing about American exceptionalism. He said ALL countries feel their countries are exceptional. Exactly correct! Too intellectual and too obviously true perhaps for right wing Americans to accept, but it is totally true.

JT:

You are being very disingenuous with your links and the quotes. While it is true the quotes are lifted from your linked article in The American Conservative, the quotes themselves were lifted from other articles and publications.

For instance your first quote beginning with..."Or take Mr. Romney’s frequent tributes to American exceptionalism." This quote originates with the New York Times, which is hardly a conservative publication.

Your second quote beginning with..."This unchallenged faith in American exceptionalism.." is lifted from an article written by Stephen M. Walt and titled, The Myth of American Exceptionalism. The article can be found here and would be recommended reading for the Bash US crowd.

http://www.foreignpo..._exceptionalism

One quote you failed to cite from the author writing the piece you linked to was:

"All things considered, though, I find Romney’s true-believing Mormonism, fairly considered, to be more of a reason for cultural and social conservatives to vote for him than not. I may be critical of Mormon doctrines, but Romney clearly and demonstrably takes his faith quite seriously, and in most cases, I think, this will lead him to act in ways that orthodox Christians and other cultural conservatives will approve of. And personally, I would hope that the historical Mormon experience of persecution would make a President Romney acutely sensitive to religious liberty concerns, and act accordingly when appointing judges and choosing Supreme Court nominees."

Noting the last sentence, could it really be the Supreme Court appointments Romney might make that is upsetting you, and not his Mormon faith?

Noting the last sentence, could it really be the Supreme Court appointments Romney might make that is upsetting you, and not his Mormon faith?

No doubt.

No, I disagree with most of Romney's political positions. For example, his assertion that Russia is America's top geopolitical enemy. Is he living in retro-land? That's pathetically wrong. His opposition to all economic stimuli. What, this depression isn't BAD enough for him yet? He is a severe conservative in his own words. I am a proud liberal. Capitalism yes, but an active government, and a government that does CIVILIZED things like universal health care. You call Obama a leftist radical? That is hogwash. He's a slightly left MODERATE. Of course the supreme court is an issue. It's always an issue and yes it should be bigger than it usually is, but that's neither there nor there. Romney's Mormon faith doesn't "upset" me in the slightest. Do I want someone who represents what that faith represents as my president? No, I do not. Such not mainstream things as believing America is the "promised land", that the US constitution was divinely inspired, that the US is special because "God" deemed it so. That is totally irrational. I want rationality in my president. As Romney is no casual Mormon, just born that way, but rather a very dedicated one, and serving as a Bishop is clearly evidence of that (again read the NYT article) you really can't argue that he does represent these non-mainstream to Americans Mormon beliefs. I am not being inconsistent. I never liked Joseph Lieberman even before he went rogue because I thought he was too religious a Jew to be suitable for the white house. Like I said before, a president that can't work one day a week for religious reasons doesn't cut it.

.... Like I said before, a president that can't work one day a week for religious reasons doesn't cut it.

But apparently one that doesn't work seven days a week because he is fund raising doesn't seem to bother you.

I notice Obama's schedule for Memorial Day is blank. No ceremony scheduled to honor fallen military from past wars. I wonder if he will play golf or if he is too exhausted after his trips out West?

http://www.whitehous...dent/2012-05-28

Irrelevant. He's available always as the president. Also a cheap shot.

Of course I would love to see a Jewish president someday, and it might happen, but a much more secular type like Bloomberg would be much preferable to a super religious Jew like Lieberman. (Also more likely.) I just don't think a secular nation should have a super religious top leader of any flavor. If Romney is elected, I would guess he would be the first president elected who had been at the Bishop equivalent level of his church. Imagine for a minute if a Catholic Bishop was running for US president. You can't imagine it, because you all know it would NEVER happen. So it is a fact that Romney was a Mormon Bishop, and I'm sure you all agree a former Catholic bishop would never have at a shot at U.S. president, yet for some mysterious reason this important fact about Romney's resume is off limits, too sensitive politically? It makes no sense. I can say church because ALL US presidents have been Christians. Is that fair? No. Yes I realize atheists and agnostics can never be president. Is that fair? No. So don't say there isn't massively sanctioned religious discrimination about presidents. Rejecting all atheists and agnostics is indeed religious discrimination. Not by law but by political reality.

Irrelevant. He's available always as the president. Also a cheap shot.

So Bush wasn't always available? Communications weren't advanced enough back in the early 2000's? He didn't have a mini-White House at his ranch but Obama has one in his golf bag? And what about Romney? Are you claiming that he wouldn't be available 24/7?

I find it very encouraging that those who support Obama around here can do no more than take cheap shots on religion and make wild statements about how mainstream he is. It would be tougher to win in November if they could point to Obama's successes. Then again, Obama's re-election wouldn't be so bad if he were actually successful at more than improving his golf handicap and filling his wife's passport full of stamps courtesy of US taxpayers. Funny how the press found Presidential vacations such an important topic when Bush was in office but not now with this current president who could only take more time off if he were unemployed.

Irrelevant. He's available always as the president. Also a cheap shot.

Every President is available when needed. Fortunately this guy has proven he isn't really needed very much.

I was clearly talking about Lieberman, a religious observant Jew, not Bush. Such Jews do bupkis every Shabbas!

Irrelevant. He's available always as the president. Also a cheap shot.

Every President is available when needed. Fortunately this guy has proven he isn't really needed very much.

Bin Laden may have a different story to tell about President Obama's leadership ...

As far as issues, there are many, and they will be discussed in the campaign and the debates. I expect Obama will definitely cream Romney in the debates and that will likely be the decisive factor. Here on the bedlam section, yes, I do wonder, why the press isn't making a deal about Romney's resume as a Bishop, which historically is really, really remarkably different, and also highlighting that as a pious Mormon he both believes and has repeatedly voiced the Mormon views of the special relationship of divinity to specifically America. That folks, is American exceptionalism on CRACK. American exceptionalism as I've posted before comes with serious side effects. Best served in MODERATION.

Irrelevant. He's available always as the president. Also a cheap shot.

Every President is available when needed. Fortunately this guy has proven he isn't really needed very much.

Bin Laden may have a different story to tell about President Obama's leadership ...

As far as issues, there are many, and they will be discussed in the campaign and the debates. I expect Obama will definitely cream Romney in the debates and that will likely be the decisive factor. Here on the bedlam section, yes, I do wonder, why the press isn't making a deal about Romney's resume as a Bishop, which historically is really, really remarkably different, and also highlighting that as a pious Mormon he both believes and has repeatedly voiced the Mormon views of the special relationship of divinity to specifically America. That folks, is American exceptionalism on CRACK. American exceptionalism as I've posted before comes with serious side effects. Best served in MODERATION.

Presumably you would then endorse VP Biden's comments about the raid? Specifically calling it the "most audacious plan" in the last 500 years.

Instead of talking about Romney's underpants, let's discuss Obama's leadership. Comments to the question?

____________________________________________________

White House Backs Biden's Claim That Killing Bin Laden Was Boldest Mission in ‘500 Years’

By Fred Lucas

March 20, 2012

(CNSNews.com) – The White House asserted that Vice President Joe Biden did not misspeak when he said, “you can go back 500 years. You cannot find a more audacious plan,” referring to President Barack Obama’s decision to kill Osama bin Laden.

http://cnsnews.com/n...ssion-500-years

ANY president would have killed Bin Ladin - even Obama or Jimmy Carter.

ANY president would have killed Bin Ladin - even Obama or Jimmy Carter.

No kidding. Apparently the only hesitation on Obama's part was how he would lay blame on the Admiral (who actually led that day) if something went wrong.

Making a big deal out of Obama's giving the go ahead to kill Osama is silly. It's like saying, "Mr. Jones of North Carolina turned in his winning lottery ticket yesterday to claim the prize of $250 million. It's hard to imagine another man in the past 500 years who has exhibited such bravery".