Trayvon Martin shooter makes first court appearance

[Koratpat]

Other than the serious issue of racism, there is also the serious issue of (lack of) gun control. It's time the US (and some other countries, including Thailand) get its act together and started getting tough regarding gun control. It's time the silly and dangerous 'Guns don't kill people; people kill people' argument is not taken seriously by lawmakers.

Also, what kind of example is being set to new generations who grow up thinking (or rather, being made to think) that a society being armed to the teeth is a normal thing ?!

Jem

Yes, all those pesky guns ought to be arrested, tried, convicted and given the death sentence.

[Koratpat]

,the police must have thought they had no case against the guy ,if they had why the time lapse before he was charged?, nah this is a purely political decision ,and the decision IMHO came from the very highest level ,not the police or prosecutors .

The current case has no teeth either. This will never make it to trial. Charges must show PC - and that does not stand for political case - it stands for probable cause. And frankly, there is none.

[Colin Yai]

Replying to your post #57 Chuck ,I refer you to your post#19 for the answer ,which in my view was quite evident by the "line up"displayed and the remarks given by President Obama which was in my view pathetic , this decision to prosecute at such a late date is obviously political with the Election not far away , with strong racist undertones thrown in.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Neurath]

However, there is far too much haste in rushing to judgement.

Which is surely the root of the problem? The fact that the police rushed to judge Zimmerman as innocent and just let him walk in the first place. This 'stand your ground' law works simply by having someone say 'I felt I was threatened'. End of story?

Yes the 'stand your ground' law is very consequential - I can't imagine that there would be very many black men who won't now feel very threatened if followed by a non-black male. I suppose they will all be looking to be armed C&C. Consequences to follow.

[Colin Yai]

However, there is far too much haste in rushing to judgement.

Which is surely the root of the problem? The fact that the police rushed to judge Zimmerman as innocent and just let him walk in the first place. This 'stand your ground' law works simply by having someone say 'I felt I was threatened'. End of story?

Yes the 'stand your ground' law is very consequential - I can't imagine that there would be very many black men who won't now feel very threatened if followed by a non-black male. I suppose they will all be looking to be armed C&C. Consequences to follow.

Threatened? read UG's post#49!!.

[Neurath]

However, there is far too much haste in rushing to judgement.

Which is surely the root of the problem? The fact that the police rushed to judge Zimmerman as innocent and just let him walk in the first place. This 'stand your ground' law works simply by having someone say 'I felt I was threatened'. End of story?

Yes the 'stand your ground' law is very consequential - I can't imagine that there would be very many black men who won't now feel very threatened if followed by a non-black male. I suppose they will all be looking to be armed C&C. Consequences to follow.

Threatened? read UG's post#49!!.

Yeah, I did read that. It's the statement from Mr. Zimmerman's attorney regarding the injuries incurred at the hands of the now dead kid. I've also seen the video of Mr. Zimmerman being taken into the police station 30 minutes after the shooting. The evidence will need to be evaluated in court, since it's at the heart of being able to invoke a "stand your ground" defense after having killed someone.

[Colin Yai]

Nuerath your post #66 appears to fly in the face of Endures post#45 who said and I quote "With out the person (Zimmerman) who did the killing at least being detained and questioned about the circumstances in which they killed" of course its normal police procedure to write down and evaluate the Evidence , Apparently the Police must have deduced that Zimmerman had nothing to answer to and therefore released him without charge ,

Edited April 15, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Neurath]

Nuerath your post #66 appears to fly in the face of Endures post#45 who said and I quote "With out the person (Zimmerman) who did the killing at least being detained and questioned about the circumstances in which they killed" of course its normal police procedure to write down and evaluate the Evidence , Apparently the Police must have deduced that Zimmerman had nothing to answer to and therefore released him without charge ,

Mr. Zimmerman was taken to the police station and questioned immediately after the shooting. He was filmed walking into the station with police officers. The film is easily available. He was released after the questioning with no charges. Whether Mr. Zimmerman sustained the injuries claimed by his attorney is material to his defense under 'stand your ground'. The film showing Mr. Zimmerman walking into the station is evidence as to whether the injuries were sustained during a fight with the dead youth.

[Neurath]

There have been 120 murders in Chicago so far this year (2012).

Why are Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson (who is from Chicago) not expressing outrage over this issue and beating their collective chests over it?

Maybe because the majority of shootings in Chicago are black on black, not Hispanic on black.

...and it is an election year.

_____________________________________________________

Chicago Shootings: 3 Dead, 7 Wounded In Overnight Friday Gun Violence

Posted: 04/14/2012 1:45 pm Updated: 04/14/2012 3:23 pm

Three people were killed and seven others injured in shootings Friday evening into Saturday morning in Chicago, continuing what has already been a bloody spring in the Second City.

David Loggins, 52, of the 6500 block of South Champlain Avenue, was shot in the neck at 1:23 a.m. Saturday in the 6400 block of South Langley Avenue, police say, and was pronounced dead at the scene, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

The Chicago Tribune reports that a 31-year-old man was found with a gunshot wound to the torso in his cab near the intersection of Racine Avenue and 69th Street. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center and pronounced dead there at about 3:45 a.m. His identity has not yet been released.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1425694.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_1420382.html

In this particular case because the person who did the shooting was immediately released by police after having done so. Perhaps the other cases you mention are being treating as suspected homicides. There is a difference. Though there have been other cases in Florida where 'stand your ground' has been successfully invoked. These cases are funny or depressing depending on one's view of the law in question.

[chuckd]

There have been 120 murders in Chicago so far this year (2012).

Why are Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson (who is from Chicago) not expressing outrage over this issue and beating their collective chests over it?

Maybe because the majority of shootings in Chicago are black on black, not Hispanic on black.

...and it is an election year.

_____________________________________________________

Chicago Shootings: 3 Dead, 7 Wounded In Overnight Friday Gun Violence

Posted: 04/14/2012 1:45 pm Updated: 04/14/2012 3:23 pm

Three people were killed and seven others injured in shootings Friday evening into Saturday morning in Chicago, continuing what has already been a bloody spring in the Second City.

David Loggins, 52, of the 6500 block of South Champlain Avenue, was shot in the neck at 1:23 a.m. Saturday in the 6400 block of South Langley Avenue, police say, and was pronounced dead at the scene, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

The Chicago Tribune reports that a 31-year-old man was found with a gunshot wound to the torso in his cab near the intersection of Racine Avenue and 69th Street. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center and pronounced dead there at about 3:45 a.m. His identity has not yet been released.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1425694.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_1420382.html

In this particular case because the person who did the shooting was immediately released by police after having done so. Perhaps the other cases you mention are being treating as suspected homicides. There is a difference. Though there have been other cases in Florida where 'stand your ground' has been successfully invoked. These cases are funny or depressing depending on one's view of the law in question.

You have missed my point.

This entire fiasco following the death of the unfortunate young man, is political fodder in an election year.

Black people are getting murdered daily in Chicago, mainly by other black people, and there is no outrage or public cry to stop the slaughter. The silence from the Democratic left is deafening.

Calling Zimmerman a "white Hispanic", as the media did, is precisely an attempt to divide the races even further than they already have been during the past three years.

Please, please, please! Somebody tell me ONE other instance where a Hispanic has been named as a "white Hispanic" by the news media.

Anybody???

[KhaoNiaw]

There is evidence that Zimmerman was attacked - the cuts on his head, the broken nose and the grass stains on the back of his shirt. Reportedly, two eye witnesses have said that they saw Treyvan on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. Don't get me wrong, I do think that this is case is suspicious, but there is also a fair chance that Zimmerman acted in self-defence.

And it's also been suggested that the videos of Zimmerman being taken to the police station don't show any bleeding, cuts etc. I think they can be googled and viewed quite easily. And other witnesses said said it was the bigger man on top with the smaller guy face down on the ground.

You'd think there's enough doubt and contradiction there to at least warrant a thorough investigation. I hope all the available evidence can be reviewed and the truth come out.

I'm not American and it's just beyond my comprehension that police can accept the man's word and let him go. Is this really how the law works stateside? It's also baffling to me how ordinary people, who I can often relate to in their posts on here about Thailand, find this kind of situation to be possibly acceptable. It really is a funny old world.

[Colin Yai]

There have been 120 murders in Chicago so far this year (2012).

Why are Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson (who is from Chicago) not expressing outrage over this issue and beating their collective chests over it?

Maybe because the majority of shootings in Chicago are black on black, not Hispanic on black.

...and it is an election year.

_____________________________________________________

Chicago Shootings: 3 Dead, 7 Wounded In Overnight Friday Gun Violence

Posted: 04/14/2012 1:45 pm Updated: 04/14/2012 3:23 pm

Three people were killed and seven others injured in shootings Friday evening into Saturday morning in Chicago, continuing what has already been a bloody spring in the Second City.

David Loggins, 52, of the 6500 block of South Champlain Avenue, was shot in the neck at 1:23 a.m. Saturday in the 6400 block of South Langley Avenue, police say, and was pronounced dead at the scene, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

The Chicago Tribune reports that a 31-year-old man was found with a gunshot wound to the torso in his cab near the intersection of Racine Avenue and 69th Street. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center and pronounced dead there at about 3:45 a.m. His identity has not yet been released.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1425694.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_1420382.html

In this particular case because the person who did the shooting was immediately released by police after having done so. Perhaps the other cases you mention are being treating as suspected homicides. There is a difference. Though there have been other cases in Florida where 'stand your ground' has been successfully invoked. These cases are funny or depressing depending on one's view of the law in question.

You have missed my point.

This entire fiasco following the death of the unfortunate young man, is political fodder in an election year.

Black people are getting murdered daily in Chicago, mainly by other black people, and there is no outrage or public cry to stop the slaughter. The silence from the Democratic left is deafening.

Calling Zimmerman a "white Hispanic", as the media did, is precisely an attempt to divide the races even further than they already have been during the past three years.

Please, please, please! Somebody tell me ONE other instance where a Hispanic has been named as a "white Hispanic" by the news media.

Anybody???

Yeah Obama is desperate for the "black vote" again, I strongly suspect that the whole shabang is Political, maybe I am wrong who knows ,but IF my suspicious mind is correct this adds an whole new dimension to "gutter politics" its quite obvious that intense pressure was brought to bear by the likes of Al Sharpton and his ilk to bring about a prosecution , maybe Zimmerman is guilty who knows ,certainly no one in this forum is sure either way ,I just find it rather Sad that someones freedom or incarceration could well be sacrificed or gamboled with on the alter of The American political popularity stakes !. Edited April 15, 2012 by Colin Yai

[Scott]

This topic is starting to stay off topic.

Stick to the topic.

[Neurath]

There have been 120 murders in Chicago so far this year (2012).

Why are Obama, the Congressional Black Caucus, Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson (who is from Chicago) not expressing outrage over this issue and beating their collective chests over it?

Maybe because the majority of shootings in Chicago are black on black, not Hispanic on black.

...and it is an election year.

_____________________________________________________

Chicago Shootings: 3 Dead, 7 Wounded In Overnight Friday Gun Violence

Posted: 04/14/2012 1:45 pm Updated: 04/14/2012 3:23 pm

Three people were killed and seven others injured in shootings Friday evening into Saturday morning in Chicago, continuing what has already been a bloody spring in the Second City.

David Loggins, 52, of the 6500 block of South Champlain Avenue, was shot in the neck at 1:23 a.m. Saturday in the 6400 block of South Langley Avenue, police say, and was pronounced dead at the scene, the Chicago Sun-Times reports.

The Chicago Tribune reports that a 31-year-old man was found with a gunshot wound to the torso in his cab near the intersection of Racine Avenue and 69th Street. He was taken to Advocate Christ Medical Center and pronounced dead there at about 3:45 a.m. His identity has not yet been released.

http://www.huffingto..._n_1425694.html

http://www.huffingto..._n_1420382.html

In this particular case because the person who did the shooting was immediately released by police after having done so. Perhaps the other cases you mention are being treating as suspected homicides. There is a difference. Though there have been other cases in Florida where 'stand your ground' has been successfully invoked. These cases are funny or depressing depending on one's view of the law in question.

You have missed my point.

This entire fiasco following the death of the unfortunate young man, is political fodder in an election year.

Black people are getting murdered daily in Chicago, mainly by other black people, and there is no outrage or public cry to stop the slaughter. The silence from the Democratic left is deafening.

Calling Zimmerman a "white Hispanic", as the media did, is precisely an attempt to divide the races even further than they already have been during the past three years.

Please, please, please! Somebody tell me ONE other instance where a Hispanic has been named as a "white Hispanic" by the news media.

Anybody???

No, I believe I got your point very clearly. As you say, homicides occur in Chicago quite often. Those involved are murder suspects. When they are caught they are treated as such. In this case Mr. Zimmerman was not treated as such. Why is a fuss made? Precisely because he was not treated as such and the death was treated, seemingly by default, as justifiable homicide.

I too dislike immensely the political capital that partisans seek to make from this case. It is disgusting and revolting. That's beside the point. It's this particular case that's important. How, when and why the young man died. How, when and why Mr. Zimmerman shot him dead, and what actions on the dead boy's part may or may not have led to it and what laws in Florida might justify the killing.

[Jingthing]

It sounds like you are pre-judging Zimmerman in the same way that you think that he pre-judged Treyvan. As far as supposed "racial discrimination" goes, Zimmerman looks 100% Hispanic. Why would the police be any less bigoted against him than Treyvan?

Because Zimmerman was a known friend of the local police who was constantly calling in about so called suspicious people. Some things are known and that was one of them. Also no he doesn't look 100 percent Hispanic and his voice is quite whitebread.

Zimmerman prejudges all right and now his victim is dead. All I want is him to go to trial and I would have wanted him to be arrested the day of the killing. A boy is dead, it wasn't a home invasion, that's grounds to hold the shooter.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Jingthing

[MegaRanter]

Trayvorn brought snacks to a gun fight.

Why don't zimeraman be also awarded a congressional medal of honor, being that he did nothing wrong, he must then have one something commendable.

The chief of police in this particular case has resigned or something to that effect, I hope he tells the court how he absolutely believed the vigilante.

I remember the outrage here when a soi cowboy bar girl killed her husband, a long time faring resident and made bail the same day.

[geriatrickid]

It sounds like you are pre-judging Zimmerman in the same way that you think that he pre-judged Treyvan. As far as supposed "racial discrimination" goes, Zimmerman looks 100% Hispanic. Why would the police be any less bigoted against him than Treyvan?

Because Zimmerman was a known friend of the local police who was constantly calling in about so called suspicious people. Some things are known and that was one of them. Also no he doesn't look 100 percent Hispanic and his voice is quite whitebread.

Zimmerman prejudges all right and now his victim is dead. All I want is him to go to trial and I would have wanted him to be arrested the day of the killing. A boy is dead, it wasn't a home invasion, that's grounds to hold the shooter.

Oh please, Now it is you that is judging a man because he is not "hispanic" enough.

You refuse to acknowledge the circumstances of the case;

1. Accused was legally carrrying a firearm.

2. There was no ORDER to stop following the deceased. (Possible error on the part of the dispatcher?)

3. It was dark and in the dark, it may have been difficult for the accused to determine if the deceased was carrying a weapon. (Mistakes are often made on that basis.)

4. There appears to have been a physical confrontation.

5. There is no evidence at this time to show the deceased was stalked or that the shooting was premeditated or even intended.

It is a tragedy and pointing fingers before a proper investigation is completed serves no purpose except to play to vocal political interest groups. What happened to the presumption of innocence?

I am a firm believer in gun control and the need to control these citizen type possees. However the laws permit the carrying of firearms and citizen patrols in Florida, Until the law(s) is changed, there is no point in saying the actions of observing and carrying a weapon were illegal, because they were not. I know its hard, but please wait for the trial. I think you may be disappointed when the actual facts come out at the trial.

I dislike weapons and the US gun culture, but I am not allowing that to prejudce my position on the event. Please try and do the same.

Edited April 15, 2012 by geriatrickid

[Jingthing]

A totally unarmed boy is dead. Zimmerman pursued and shot him. He may get off but he ain't innocent!

[geriatrickid]

Trayvorn brought snacks to a gun fight.

Why don't zimeraman be also awarded a congressional medal of honor, being that he did nothing wrong, he must then have one something commendable.

The chief of police in this particular case has resigned or something to that effect, I hope he tells the court how he absolutely believed the vigilante.

I remember the outrage here when a soi cowboy bar girl killed her husband, a long time faring resident and made bail the same day.

In the dark, it is difficult to distinguish objects. There is also the possibility that the accused was behaving in an erratic manner. The autopsy results will show whether or not the deceased was "stoned". No one says, Mr. Zimmerman did nothing wrong. What people are saying is that there should be no ush to judgement until all the facts are established and there is a fair trial.

The Chief of Police has recused himself from the case so as to remove any possibility of people claiming bias or a conflict of interest. It was a smart decision and one that speaks to how seriously the police and DA's office take this case.

This isn't about believing Mr. Zimemrman, but whether or not the existing laws supported criminal charges at the time.

It is not unusual for suspects to be released and then arrested at a later date once there is evidence to support the laying of charges. Are you suggesting that you wanted the police to violate the civil rights of the accused and to make up the charges?

[geriatrickid]

A totally unarmed boy is dead. Zimmerman pursued and shot him. He may get off but he ain't innocent!

A poor use of words. Pursuing is not the same as following. Listen to the 9-11 tape. The deceased approached Mr. Zimmerman.

[Ulysses G.]

You refuse to acknowledge the circumstances of the case;

The "compassion" posse is ready to hang a man with no real evidence that he is guilty.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[GentlemanJim]

Are you suggesting that you wanted the police to violate the civil rights of the accused and to make up the charges?

Well that is what they do with all the Brits they seem to extradite from the UK to the States at the moment, who are then left in jail for months while charges are decided upon, or they are released on bail without means to support themselves or earn an income with nowhere to live and are forbidden to leave the US. Civil rights, give me a break! Where were the young lads civil rights, and what happened to the rule of minimum force?

[KhaoNiaw]

What people are saying is that there should be no ush to judgement until all the facts are established and there is a fair trial.

But surely the reason there is controversy is because the police did rush to judgement? From what I can understand, the law allows them to judge Zimmerman innocent without any real investigation. As a total outsider that's what I can't get my head round. That such a thing could be considered acceptable in the first place.

If tests show that Martin had drugs in his system, does that mean Zimmerman should get off? There have been plenty of nights in my life when I've had a nice mix of alcohol with other substances. That means if I'd been shot and the guy had said I attacked him, I'd have deserved to die?

As I said, it's not my country or culture, so it's all a bit bewildering that there can be such a huge controversy over the whole situation.

Edited April 15, 2012 by KhaoNiaw

[KhaoNiaw]

The "compassion" posse is ready to hang a man with no real evidence that he is guilty.

But didn't he already 'hang a man' (well, shoot him)? Without any real evidence to show that his story is true? Surely it should be up to him to prove that he had to do it to save his own life? How can a dead person argue their case?

I'll stop asking questions here. The cultural divide is too great I fear.

[Koratpat]

Because Zimmerman was a known friend of the local police who was constantly calling in about so called suspicious people.

The citizen that is constantly calling the cops is not considered a friend, but rather a nuisance that is apt to wear tin foil hats and spot UFO's.

[Koratpat]

I am guessing the lack of response to my post about police dispatchers having the less authority to give orders than thimble full of lint was because it hit home on your case against Zimmerman.

[Ulysses G.]

The "compassion" posse is ready to hang a man with no real evidence that he is guilty.

But didn't he already 'hang a man' (well, shoot him)? Without any real evidence to show that his story is true?

I do not know where you are from, but in America the defendant is given a presumption of innocence. He does not have to prove anything. The prosecutors do.

[Ulysses G.]

Because Zimmerman was a known friend of the local police who was constantly calling in about so called suspicious people.

The citizen that is constantly calling the cops is not considered a friend, but rather a nuisance that is apt to wear tin foil hats and spot UFO's.

Indeed, but Zimmerman was chosen as the neighborhood watch coordinator by his neighbors in the homeowner association and there is evidence that Zimmerman was attacked - the cuts on his head, the broken nose and the grass stains on the back of his shirt. Reportedly, two eye witnesses have said that they saw Treyvan on top of Zimmerman pummeling him. The hanging party may have a long wait.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted. Please post about the discussion and not individual posters.

[Steely Dan]

The "compassion" posse is ready to hang a man with no real evidence that he is guilty.

But didn't he already 'hang a man' (well, shoot him)? Without any real evidence to show that his story is true? Surely it should be up to him to prove that he had to do it to save his own life? How can a dead person argue their case?

I'll stop asking questions here. The cultural divide is too great I fear.

That's not how the law works, ever heard of the phrase 'beyond reasonable doubt'?