Greece will be reborn as a nation state, a phenomenon the Eurocrats have systematically tried to destroy.

reward and laudate the thieves and fraudsters, blame those who were defrauded! = <deleted> beautiful indeed!

i don't like Merkel and neither do i like Schäuble. but i applaud their stance "put up or else!"

-no cash for a country that is not capable to print a sufficient number of forms required for its citizens to file tax returns!

-no money for a country with 11 million inhabitants keeping more government officials in office than a country with 82 million inhabitants!

-no money for a country where any service requested requires a fakelaki (envelope) with cash to be handed over!

-no money for a country where the favourite pastime is tax evasion!

-no money for more decades of dolce vita and siestas!

Greece will be reborn as a nation state, a phenomenon the Eurocrats have systematically tried to destroy.

reward and laudate the thieves and fraudsters, blame those who were defrauded! = <deleted> beautiful indeed!

i don't like Merkel and neither do i like Schäuble. but i applaud their stance "put up or else!"

-no cash for a country that is not capable to print a sufficient number of forms required for its citizens to file tax returns!

-no money for a country with 11 million inhabitants keeping more government officials in office than a country with 82 million inhabitants!

-no money for a country where any service requested requires a fakelaki (envelope) with cash to be handed over!

-no money for a country where the favourite pastime is tax evasion!

-no money for more decades of dolce vita and siestas!

Are you talking about Greece or Thailand?

I read today on BBC that Lloyds of London is making contingency plans in case the WHOLE Euro collapses. While Lloyds has had its problems recently (lost GBP half a billion last year), this gives food for thought. (Apologies for not being able to find the link!).

But Greece is on the way out, I'm sure... even if it manages to string its creditors along for another year or two. And yes, Naam, I agree with you; Greece has had it too good for too long.

I read today on BBC that Lloyds of London is making contingency plans in case the WHOLE Euro collapses. While Lloyds has had its problems recently (lost GBP half a billion last year), this gives food for thought. (Apologies for not being able to find the link!).

But Greece is on the way out, I'm sure... even if it manages to string its creditors along for another year or two. And yes, Naam, I agree with you; Greece has had it too good for too long.

I can find no facility in the Maastricht Treaty or any other document used toset up the Euro that allows any country to leave the Euro.

If anyone can find evidence that such a move was ever considered, I would be grateful for the info. (I don't want opinions - just factual eidence of a provision in the setting up of the Euro that there was an escape clause)

I read today on BBC that Lloyds of London is making contingency plans in case the WHOLE Euro collapses. While Lloyds has had its problems recently (lost GBP half a billion last year), this gives food for thought. (Apologies for not being able to find the link!).

But Greece is on the way out, I'm sure... even if it manages to string its creditors along for another year or two. And yes, Naam, I agree with you; Greece has had it too good for too long.

I can find no facility in the Maastricht Treaty or any other document used toset up the Euro that allows any country to leave the Euro.

If anyone can find evidence that such a move was ever considered, I would be grateful for the info. (I don't want opinions - just factual eidence of a provision in the setting up of the Euro that there was an escape clause)

a member country does not need permission to leave the monetary union or the EU on its own accord or is forced by the circumstances. that's why there was no need for an "escape clause". correct is that there is no provision to expel a country, an "oversight" that is much regretted nowadays.

Greece will be reborn as a nation state, a phenomenon the Eurocrats have systematically tried to destroy.

reward and laudate the thieves and fraudsters, blame those who were defrauded! = <deleted> beautiful indeed!

i don't like Merkel and neither do i like Schäuble. but i applaud their stance "put up or else!"

-no cash for a country that is not capable to print a sufficient number of forms required for its citizens to file tax returns!

-no money for a country with 11 million inhabitants keeping more government officials in office than a country with 82 million inhabitants!

-no money for a country where any service requested requires a fakelaki (envelope) with cash to be handed over!

-no money for a country where the favourite pastime is tax evasion!

-no money for more decades of dolce vita and siestas!

Are you talking about Greece or Thailand?

Thailand is not a beggar nation like Greece that blows powdered sugar up the àrses of its citizens. i don't recall Thailand defaulting on its sovereign debt, not even in 1997. its financial position is, compared to many other countries, quite sound.

I read today on BBC that Lloyds of London is making contingency plans in case the WHOLE Euro collapses. While Lloyds has had its problems recently (lost GBP half a billion last year), this gives food for thought. (Apologies for not being able to find the link!).

http://www.myfinances.co.uk/insurance/2012/05/28/lloyd-s-of-london-plans-for-euro-collapse

Mr Ward, who is one of the first bosses of a large UK firm to publicly admit that he is making plans to deal with the collapse of the euro, said in the interview: "We've got multi-currency functionality and we would switch to multi-currency settlement if the Greeks abandoned the euro and started using the drachma again.

"I don't think that if Greece exited the euro it would lead to the collapse of the eurozone, but what we need to do is prepare for that eventuality."

Thanks, Koheesti; different link, same story.

I don't understand why some of you say Greece 'couldn't' exit the EZ. Greece is a sovereign nation still, and can do what she likes. Even Germany could say, "I've had enough of you lot; I'm getting out". I'm not saying she would.... but she could (and I'm not sure I'd blame her).

Thanks, Koheesti; different link, same story.

I don't understand why some of you say Greece 'couldn't' exit the EZ. Greece is a sovereign nation still, and can do what she likes. Even Germany could say, "I've had enough of you lot; I'm getting out". I'm not saying she would.... but she could (and I'm not sure I'd blame her).

Don't think it's 'some of you' - I think I'm the only one that's saying there is no exit mechanism.

I can find no legal exit. If Greece, or any other country, decided to exit the Euro mechanism, while still owing billions in Euros to foreign banks and other financial institutions, how will these institutions be repaid? In what currencies would they be repaid, if any? What would be the result? As far as I can see they would be repaid in 'New Drachma' at a lunatic exchange rate, thus putting those lending institutions into very real danger of failing. Greece would be a pariah state with no prospect of obtaining any further loans during the lifetime of any financier on this planet.

The knock-on effect would probably bring Spanish banks down, with their current internal debt problems, and may paralyse the French banks that have a very high exposure to Greek debt.

Quitting the EU would be simpler and could be achieved by negotiation without much harm to the quitting country or countries (say England and Wales - Scotland remaining within the system and Northern Ireland being sponsored by the ROI).

This is the latest scheme I have seen :-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/9298180/Europes-debtors-must-pawn-their-gold-for-Eurobond-Redemption.html

Southern Europe’s debtor states must pledge their gold reserves and national treasure as collateral under a €2.3 trillion stabilisation plan gaining momentum in Germany.

This is of course a lunatic proposal that will place all assets of any value of the 'Club Med' countries outside their control and therefore any borrowing will have to be through the holder(s) of these assets - the ECB and Germany?

It will never happen - it's worse than fool Gordon Brown selling off the UK's gold.

I think it is quite intriguing actually.

Some members can not be held accountable at the moment and so they are placed under a

temporary guardian that is self-extinguishing so a set amount of time.

It is also a step towards old values like discipline and accountability.

Those currently in-accountable get to enjoy the trust/interest rate of responsible members Germany.

This is the only proposal i've seen with any sort of sense innit

*pressing "like this" button*

ed: kick Greece off the boat tho, they won't grow up in this decade for sure

Thanks, Koheesti; different link, same story.

I don't understand why some of you say Greece 'couldn't' exit the EZ. Greece is a sovereign nation still, and can do what she likes. Even Germany could say, "I've had enough of you lot; I'm getting out". I'm not saying she would.... but she could (and I'm not sure I'd blame her).

neither do i. i

This is the latest scheme I have seen :-

http://www.telegraph...Redemption.html

Southern Europe’s debtor states must pledge their gold reserves and national treasure as collateral under a €2.3 trillion stabilisation plan gaining momentum in Germany.

This is of course a lunatic proposal that will place all assets of any value of the 'Club Med' countries outside their control and therefore any borrowing will have to be through the holder(s) of these assets - the ECB and Germany?

It will never happen - it's worse than fool Gordon Brown selling off the UK's gold.

I'm not quite sure what is meant by 'national treasure'.

Whatever is the end result of the current Greek crisis, even a Greek exit from the EZ, will put more power into German hands. I think this will be bad for the whole EC; Germany has quite enough power in it already. I say this not because I'm anti-German; I would say the same if it was France or even UK (which, not being in the EZ, is not currently directly involved). I do not think Europe is anywhere near ready for full-scale federation... which would mean German domination anyway.

If, as I think it will, Greece exits the EZ, I think Spain may be forced to follow.

Isanbirder, Naam, anyone else who is concerned about the current problems in Southern Europe, - this is a BBC HARDtalk programme that I was watching at 04.30 this morning.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01jc83h/HARDtalk_Yiannis_Milios_economic_advisor_of_the_Syriza_Party_Greece/

(So obviously I couldn't sleep afterwards)

If this is the attitude prevalent in PIIGS countries - what hope is there?

Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only, but all BBC iPlayer Radio programmes are available to you. Why?

Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only, but all BBC iPlayer Radio programmes are available to you. Why?

Didn't know that. OK - at the moment I can't download this particular programme as it is too recent, but I will later and post the half-hour discussion here.

I think the Euro will indeed strengthen once Greece finally leaves and it will strengthen further once the other countries that shouldn't be in it have left... the single currency is probably viable for Germany, Austria, France, Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg... (and Switzerland if they were interested to join but they are not stupid)... beyond that, it doesn't make sense as the other economies are so different that they require different monetary policy...

I think the Euro will indeed strengthen once Greece finally leaves and it will strengthen further once the other countries that shouldn't be in it have left... the single currency is probably viable for Germany, Austria, France, Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg... (and Switzerland if they were interested to join but they are not stupid)... beyond that, it doesn't make sense as the other economies are so different that they require different monetary policy...

But Germany, Netherlands, Finland, etc., do not want the Euro to strengthen - it will screw up their exports.

To keep the weaker countries in the Euro, and print money to support them, is a good policy for trade with the rest of the world. (And even these PIIGS)

I think the Euro will indeed strengthen once Greece finally leaves and it will strengthen further once the other countries that shouldn't be in it have left... the single currency is probably viable for Germany, Austria, France, Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg... (and Switzerland if they were interested to join but they are not stupid)... beyond that, it doesn't make sense as the other economies are so different that they require different monetary policy...

ahemm... cough... cough... may i draw you attention to the fact that Switzerland has been stupid and joined de facto the EUR since april?

I think the Euro will indeed strengthen once Greece finally leaves and it will strengthen further once the other countries that shouldn't be in it have left... the single currency is probably viable for Germany, Austria, France, Holland, Belgium and Luxembourg... (and Switzerland if they were interested to join but they are not stupid)... beyond that, it doesn't make sense as the other economies are so different that they require different monetary policy...

But Germany, Netherlands, Finland, etc., do not want the Euro to strengthen - it will screw up their exports.

To keep the weaker countries in the Euro, and print money to support them, is a good policy for trade with the rest of the world. (And even these PIIGS)

Humph, reading your perverse theories makes me sympathise with Mrs Humph who perhaps has to endure a number of other perversities you have in your mind.