MrRealDeal Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 The answer can be found in the legal principle of "what would a reasonable person do or not do" Would a reasonable person about to be hit move out of the way or assult the driver ? I dare say that most Jurys in the world would find a person who took a bag of grocerys or a baseball bat to the driver to have taken an unreasonable course of action. Because a resonable person would simply move out of the way. In an accident you don't have the right to assult someone just because the accident may lead to harm. I doubt any Jury would find that swinging a bag of grocerys was intended to deflect an oncoming driver as opposed to just being an unreasonable act. The Jury question would be would a reasonable person is the same or similar circumstance try and deflect 150+ pounds going X miles per hour with a hard object or would a resonable person try and get out of the way. The reason it's unreasonable is that it would be demmed an unreasonable expectation that hitting a moving object with that amount of force with a bottle of pickes would have a reasonable chance of reducing the harm to the pickle bottle thrower because as a point of fact it would not, and a reasonable person would understand that ..... which is why as a reasonable person you didn't do it ! When this flips on it's head is when the driver is assulting you intentionally, if a driver was attempting to run you over or assult you a reasonable person would try to use any force within their means to stay alive and as ineffective as a bottle of pickles might be it would not be unreasonable to try and use it to defend yourself. Then the jury question becomes, would a reasonable person is the same or similar circumstance believe the driver was attempting to assult them or would a reasonable person think it was just an unintentional accident. It really wouldn't matter if it was or was not what would matter is if it was reasonable to think it was an assult not if it was an actual assult. When people get into trouble in this fairly common situation it's bacause Jurys find their actions were unreasonable based on the circumstances. So .... yes throwing a bottle of pickles at bad drivers is againt the law as fun as it might be to do , because throwing a bottle at a motorcyclist has no reasonable expectation of reducing the harm to yourself. What would probabbly happen is the driver would sue you because it's not unreasonable at all to convience a Jury that getting smashed in the face with a bottle was what caused the accident in the first place, a reasonable Jury would find that smashing someone in the face would keep them from reducing the harm to you and themselves as they would further lose control , stop applying the brake ect, what you would find is that the act of throwing the bottle would be deemed as adding to the problem and make you liable for a part or perhaps all of the damage of the accident. Because the smash to the face would have happened before the accident making the accident worse in the mind of any reasonable person listening to the average lawyer pointing that out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucidLucifer Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Save your delicious pickles, and swing a whole durian. The spikes and the weight of the thing would surely cause more damage, and if you miss, the smell will knock 'em out instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 You said that this has happened several times. Why on earth would the speeding/redlightning biker try to hit you? Is the same guy that's driving (maybe you have offended him before) or are there different drivers invoved? Try change your clothes as a disguise, before you cross the road next time and see what happens. In Pattaya it's a sport. What amazes me is that there aren't more road / pedestrian fatalities in the area. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickenslegs Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) If the motorcycle is heading straight at you at a moderate speed (say 40 kmph), swinging a bag of pickles at it will have no effect upon its trajectory (well, not sufficient effect to avoid the collision). Your arm, including the shopping bag is about 1.2 metres long. The front wheel of the motorcycle is approximately 0.6 metres ahead of the rider. In order for you to strike the motorcyclist his front wheel would need to be just 0.6 metres from you. At 40 kmph the motorcycle will travel 0.6 metres in approximately 0.05 (five one-hundredths) of a second. However, you said that the motorcycle was travelling fast, so assume a lower figure. Now factor in the combined weight of the motorcycle and rider - that's a lot of momentum. Your shopping bag won't have much affect at all on the speed or direction of the motorcycle. Bottom line - swinging out with the shopping bag is not self-defence. Your best hope is to step back, leaving the shopping bag in the path of the maniac's front wheel then, if you are lucky, he will hit the tarmac. Now you can attack him with the pickles then disappear into the crowds. Edit: I suppose I'd better add a smiley Edited May 30, 2012 by chickenslegs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivas Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 OP was perfectly correct in my opinion....... Where you would stand legally is probably about 20 Fathoms deep but I admire your stance..... Front page of the Bangkok Post reading that a farang not pickled, but throwing the entire bottle instead serves up his own justice..... I like it.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieovaseas Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 JT, thank goodness rhere was no further trouble. After all, if the motorcy guy or BiB had of read any of your food threads on TV they could have used the defense that you were to slow to cross the road..due to your eating one to many tacos!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Hmmm, interesting conundrum, I suppose legally if you hit him with the pickles before he hit you it would be easy for the police to blame you for the crash and you would be charged with assault with a deadly pickle. On the other hand, there wouldn't be much point in hitting him with pickle after the crash, assuming that either you or the pickles survived. So faced with the choice of potential death or a court appearance I would take the court appearance. I would then hope the judge shared your enthusiasm for pickles and realized the level of imminent threat you felt, enough for you to sacrifice such a delicious delicacy. On the other hand, if the judge hates pickles I think you would find it difficult to avoid spending some time in BKK Hilton. So faced with a choice between death and being incarcerated with 8,000 men. I believe the OP would choose the latter. Note to Pattaya residents, be on the lookout for a farang with a devilish smile on his face hanging around busy junctions with a jar of pickles in his hand..... I'll get my coat..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NanLaew Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 .... Your best hope is to step back, leaving the shopping bag in the path of the maniac's front wheel then, if you are lucky, he will hit the tarmac. Now you can attack him with the pickles then disappear into the crowds. I like this (initially) non-aggressive approach. The effect of a fast motorbike hitting the dropped groceries would cause a certain amount if instability for the motorbike so once again, I recommend that the groceries do include the roofing tile or shingle just to make sure that the arrogant <deleted> does take a spill. Make sure that you drop ONLY the bag with the roofing tile or shingle and retain the groceries (with optional pickle jar) but make sure that said grocery bag isn't so heavy as to impede your own speedy getaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prefabs Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 You said that this has happened several times. Why on earth would the speeding/redlightning biker try to hit you? Is the same guy that's driving (maybe you have offended him before) or are there different drivers invoved? Try change your clothes as a disguise, before you cross the road next time and see what happens. It is the guy we bollocked last week for starting a food thread before Jingthing had a chance to do his usual. Loss of face and the consequences can happen to expats too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prefabs Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I'm thinking that if you have time to lift you grocey bag, and then take aim, then they guy wasn't too near you in the first place. So, you could be done for conspiracy to assault with pickles. Especially now you have told your plan everyone on Thai Visa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) Let's be clear here. When a bike is coming straight at you full speed you have no time at all to weigh out a rational response. You are in instinct mode. Fight vs. flight. This has happened to me enough times that for myself I do know that I feel BOTH things going on when threatened that way. I'm not sure if that is typical or not, but that's what I have felt. OK, first flight maybe but weirdly I feel fight pretty much simultaneously. So generally as I have survived this so far, in a split second I move (and/or they veer), I survive, and then I can feel myself STARTING to attack the bike (if I'm carrying anything) but by then I have survived and it is over, so I stop myself because there is nothing to hit. The impulse to attack the bike is not retailiation, it is intended defense. I wasn't suggesting I was ever going to successful defend against a bike attack. Bottom line, because these responses are automatic, no matter how people may intellectualize this here, I'm not sure how much control we have over these split second automatic instinctual responses. Edited May 30, 2012 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theblether Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Let's be clear here. When a bike is coming straight at you full speed you have no time at all to weigh out a rational response. You are in instinct mode. Fight vs. flight. This has happened to me enough times that for myself I do know that I feel BOTH things going on when threatened that way. I'm not sure if that is typical or not, but that's what I have felt. OK, first flight maybe but weirdly I feel fight pretty much simultaneously. So generally as I have survived this so far, in a split second I move (and/or they veer), I survive, and then I can feel myself STARTING to attack the bike (if I'm carrying anything) but by then I have survived and it is over, so I stop myself because there is nothing to hit. The impulse to attack the bike is not retailiation, it is intended defense. I wasn't suggesting I was ever going to successful defend against a bike attack. Bottom line, because these responses are automatic, no matter how people may intellectualize this here, I'm not sure how much control we have over these split second automatic instinctual responses. Jingthing, seriously, you tink too mutt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ijustwannateach Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Law isn't about what happened, JT, it's about what you can prove happened in court. Considering all the split secondness of it, it doesn't seem likely you'll get sufficient eyewitness coverage to verify these things you're saying. EITHER it will be he-said, she-said, in which case neither road event will matter and probably since you are a pedestrian in the crosswalk you will win- OR someone will say they saw you throw the object which indicates malice, and you may ironically be more responsible than the idiot on the speeding death machine (who simply made a 'mistake'). Either way, you will both be considered responsible for the fist fight which will likely ensue after the crash- not sure you'd reckoned on that yet- so I'd say whether or not you should do this is related to how likely you think it is you will do better in that fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post pauljones Posted May 31, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2012 I've been tempted to throw a box of cornflakes but fear being labeled a cereal killer if things go wrong. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saengsureeya Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 OK, I'll ask the question another way as we have many bikers here. If I feel you are about to kill me with your bike, do I have the right to assault you with my groceries? I think that would depend on whether or not you had time to move out of the way rather than just lash out with something in you hand, as this would just be an act of revenge rather than an act of making sure you are safe. And that's it........if you have the time to think about any action, other then escaping from the danger, it will be seen as revenge and jail-time will follow. Try to prove that the biker wants to kill you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payboy Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 OK, I'll ask the question another way as we have many bikers here. If I feel you are about to kill me with your bike, do I have the right to assault you with my groceries? As long as your groceries don't include nuts and cucumbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 It makes you wonder, what would Ong Bak do in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonarax Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Watch this video before you decide to throw objects at moving vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregb Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Let's be clear here. When a bike is coming straight at you full speed you have no time at all to weigh out a rational response. You are in instinct mode. Fight vs. flight. This has happened to me enough times that for myself I do know that I feel BOTH things going on when threatened that way. I'm not sure if that is typical or not, but that's what I have felt. OK, first flight maybe but weirdly I feel fight pretty much simultaneously. So generally as I have survived this so far, in a split second I move (and/or they veer), I survive, and then I can feel myself STARTING to attack the bike (if I'm carrying anything) but by then I have survived and it is over, so I stop myself because there is nothing to hit. The impulse to attack the bike is not retailiation, it is intended defense. I wasn't suggesting I was ever going to successful defend against a bike attack. Bottom line, because these responses are automatic, no matter how people may intellectualize this here, I'm not sure how much control we have over these split second automatic instinctual responses. JT, If your brain is wired in such a way that you subconsciously believe you can attack an oncoming motorcycle and win then you have much bigger problems than the fate of your pickles. As someone else pointed out, reasonable people don't do that. The natural reaction of anyone with a huge object bearing down on them at high speed is to get the hell out of the way. I would suggest that rather than trying to study the Thai legal code to find out if an adhoc Muay Thai battle with condiments in the middle of the street is legal, you address that portion of your neural programming that even thinks such stupidity is a good idea. You might just live another day to tell us about it. In answer to your question, since very few people would share your proclivities, you likely would find yourself at the losing end of a legal battle. This is one of those cases where you need to conform to the majority. War like instincts are not a protected human right. Edited May 31, 2012 by gregb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YipYipYa123 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 you CANNOT smash someone in the face with a bag of groceries if his motorbike is coming dangerously towards you You may as well give him a van damme kick to the face and do it properly The results will be the same either way and you will have to buy him a new motorbike and pay his medical expenses when the cops get down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eman Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Clearly you would be in a legal pickle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 The driver last night was a white guy. Forget about the Thai vs. foreigner aspect for a moment. Please focus on the pure conflict this time: pedestrian with pickle bottle vs. biker with speeding machine. If it were pickled onions l lost the guy would be wearing a black eye if l caught him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzieovaseas Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Should have employed your old theory of following and old soi dog accross the road, no-one injured, no loss of face or pickles. Seriously though, if pegged flat-footed in the path of one of these guys i find it best to stay still and do nothing, they will then know what direction to take to go around you, if darting to and fro and fumbling around for bottles of pickles you will be a goner for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) No, you cannot. If the motorcyclist hits you than he`s in trouble, but you cannot attack or injure someone before he has actually committed any offence. Edited May 31, 2012 by Beetlejuice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJohnson Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I didn't realize there were so many lawyers on ThaiVisa. And remember what Arlo Guthrie said/sang " I don't want a pickle, I just want to ride on my motorsickle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Should have employed your old theory of following and old soi dog accross the road, no-one injured, no loss of face or pickles. Seriously though, if pegged flat-footed in the path of one of these guys i find it best to stay still and do nothing, they will then know what direction to take to go around you, if darting to and fro and fumbling around for bottles of pickles you will be a goner for sure You bring up a great point. Darting. I do it. I can't help it. It's worked up until now and it's an automatic response. No time to weigh options, just react. I get what you mean that if the "target" is moving the biker won't know which way to avoid the target ... assuming he really cares so much about avoiding the target. Oh well ...BTW, there is no fumbling for pickles. The concept is to swing the bag of groceries with the heavier items in the lead. Edited May 31, 2012 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) When A Speeding Motorcycle Is Coming Straight At You, Can You Hit Him With A Bottle Of Pickles? What kind of pickles? Edited May 31, 2012 by sirineou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 When A Speeding Motorcycle Is Coming Straight At You, Can You Hit Him With A Bottle Of Pickles? What kind of pickles? Already gone there, but it might be pickled onions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohyesuare Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Just flash them your pickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgroper2 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Were you pickled?Either way, you would have been in a real pickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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