If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

Oh, and you aren't trying to be provocative? Shouting down and insulting others for daring to say that obese people get that way from eating too much? If you were a newbie to this forum you would have been booted as a troll pages ago.

I don't understand why JT keeps going on about us insulting fat people. Its simply not happening on this thread!

I don't understand why JT keeps going on about us insulting fat people. Its simply not happening on this thread!

Yes it has. The talk that this issue is all about will power and self control. So fat people are demonized as weak. When science now knows that is totally false.

I don't understand why JT keeps going on about us insulting fat people. Its simply not happening on this thread!

Yes it has. The talk that this issue is all about will power and self control. So fat people are demonized as weak. When science now knows that is totally false.

What science JT?

I have posted twice a link to a ling term study that refutes a lot of what you are saying. I'm sure there are hundreds of these.

As you continually make definitive statements, you really should put some decent evidence on the table.

Because overweight people do not have the self control to eat less this does make them weak in that respect.

Does it make them a lesser person overall? I don't think anyone has suggested/implied this, other than yourself.

OMG. You actually believe that because a small percentage of fat people achieve weight loss and keep it off for a few years, that ALL fat people can realistically expect the same result, simply with self directed diet and exercise alone? And that all of this vast majority of people are WEAK!?! Incredible. I am speechless.

I already have posted evidence links. You choose to IGNORE them. One poster amazingly believes because of his personal experience that applies to ALL the hundreds of millions of obese people in the world, just the same. Thankfully, scientists aren't afraid of complexity. Y'all want to believe this stupid myth for some reason. I can't explain that. Post a link about why you do that.

I guess to you complexities make your brain hurt too much:

-- the fate of fat children

-- fat cells

-- obesity, the disease where the body insidiously FIGHTS the cure (I posted about this before)

-- epidemic of thyroid disease as causation

-- genetic factors, often quite evident in some ethnic groups

-- modern world obesenegic environments

-- poverty situations providing the only cheap foods to be highly processed, high fat, carbo, etc.

-- lack of access to affordable fruits and vegetables for the masses in some countries

-- psychological damage/depression caused both by being fat and society labeling all fat people as weak for being fat when in reality society and medicine has not helped enough (see above)

There's more, but that's a start. NO! Absolutely not is the obesity disease epidemic all the fault of people without self control. It's a damaging myth and yes it makes me angry when people believe it because it is both wrong and really hurts people.

OMG. You actually believe that because a small percentage of fat people achieve weight loss and keep it off for a few years, that ALL fat people can realistically expect the same result, simply with self directed diet and exercise alone? And that all of this vast majority of people are WEAK!?! Incredible. I am speechless.

I doubt you are ever speechless JT, though I am sure many have wished this.

You have misrepresented what I said. Again!

I clearly said 'Because overweight people do not have the self control to eat less this does make them weak in that respect.' In the respect of not being able to say no to food that makes them weak. How can you argue against that point? Does that make the person weak in other areas? Maybe not.

Please JT, give us your evidence for your definitive statements.

This constant deflection and irrelevant counterarguments does you a disservice.

OMG. You actually believe that because a small percentage of fat people achieve weight loss and keep it off for a few years, that ALL fat people can realistically expect the same result, simply with self directed diet and exercise alone? And that all of this vast majority of people are WEAK!?! Incredible. I am speechless.

I already have posted evidence links. You choose to IGNORE them. One poster amazingly believes because of his personal experience that applies to ALL the hundreds of millions of obese people in the world, just the same. Thankfully, scientists aren't afraid of complexity. Y'all want to believe this stupid myth for some reason. I can't explain that. Post a link about why you do that.

I guess to you complexities make your brain hurt too much:

-- the fate of fat children

-- fat cells

-- obesity, the disease where the body insidiously FIGHTS the cure (I posted about this before)

-- epidemic of thyroid disease as causation

-- genetic factors, often quite evident in some ethnic groups

-- modern world obesenegic environments

-- poverty situations providing the only cheap foods to be highly processed, high fat, carbo, etc.

-- lack of access to affordable fruits and vegetables for the masses in some countries

-- psychological damage/depression caused both by being fat and society labeling all fat people as weak for being fat when in reality society and medicine has not helped enough (see above)

There's more, but that's a start. NO! Absolutely not is the obesity disease epidemic all the fault of people without self control. It's a damaging myth and yes it makes me angry when people believe it because it is both wrong and really hurts people.

You contradict yourself in this one post alone. Diet and exercise ARE the answer for most fat people. The evidence is all around you. Most do not have a disease....they simply eat too much and don't do any exercise at all.

You are reading way too much into the whole disease thing...that is a small percentage of fat people. Most are simply living an unhealthy lifestyle. I know...cos I've been there.

Edit: Lack of access to fruit and veg...in the US or UK??

OMG. You actually believe that because a small percentage of fat people achieve weight loss and keep it off for a few years, that ALL fat people can realistically expect the same result, simply with self directed diet and exercise alone? And that all of this vast majority of people are WEAK!?! Incredible. I am speechless.

I doubt you are ever speechless JT, though I am sure many have wished this.

You have misrepresented what I said. Again!

I clearly said 'Because overweight people do not have the self control to eat less this does make them weak in that respect.' In the respect of not being able to say no to food that makes them weak. How can you argue against that point? Does that make the person weak in other areas? Maybe not.

Please JT, give us your evidence for your definitive statements.

This constant deflection and irrelevant counterarguments does you a disservice.

I already did. You don't get it. If a normal weight person eats 2000 calories and can process that, he never gets fat. A chronic fat person can eat MUCH less, lose weight, and then his body gets reset, so he continues to eat MUCH LESS than a thin person but a little more than the spartan diet level which is not sustainable for anyone for life and doesn't even offer basic good nutrition, and then regains all the weight, and more. So the fat person is showing a MASSIVE amount of self control, but the body rebels. A thin person can never understand that, how much MORE self control the average obese person shows MORE than they do, but MOSTLY they still remain obese for life. That is a simplification, yes, of the most common result for obese people. We do NEED to eat some food. It's not like crack or ciggies. You need to eat something to survive. So people can't go cold turkey on food. For MOST fat people, your body is insidiously fighting you. Yes, a SMALL MINORITY achieve long term success with diet/exercise but MOST don't and there is a scientific reason for this and to assert it is always about self control is false. And YES I did post links about that. You don't accept them, fine, but don't accuse me of not posting them.

Here I am taking about more typical obese people. The rare ones you see on TV that can't get out of bed and eat a dozen eggs and two pounds of bacon for breakfast are totally NOT typical obese people. They are obese AND have something else going on, most likely related to a psychological disorder over food.

I don't accept it. I see fat people eating crisps and pies. That's just my own observation. Thin people are eating yoghurt and fruit.

There is a nice generalisation for you...true nonetheless.

I don't accept it. I see fat people eating crisps and pies. That's just my own observation. Thin people are eating yoghurt and fruit.

There is a nice generalisation for you...true nonetheless.

Totally unscientific generalization that is.

So that makes you think ALL obese people lack self control.

Remind me not to invest money in any science endeavor of yours.

You guys accuse me of posting emotionally? Yeah, right.

I reckon now that this simplistic, knee jerk need to label all fat people this way serves some kind of dark human need to feel superior to others ... like racism and homophobia. That includes the small minority of fat people who have beat the odds for whatever reasons. I'd like to see some links about why so many people can't process information about COMPLEXITY when it applies to the obesity epidemic.

I don't accept it. I see fat people eating crisps and pies. That's just my own observation. Thin people are eating yoghurt and fruit.

There is a nice generalisation for you...true nonetheless.

Totally unscientific generalization that is.

So that makes you think ALL obese people lack self control.

Remind me not to invest money in any science endeavor of yours.

You guys accuse me of posting emotionally? Yeah, right.

No JT, I am saying they choose not to take control. Big difference.

I don't accept it. I see fat people eating crisps and pies. That's just my own observation. Thin people are eating yoghurt and fruit.

There is a nice generalisation for you...true nonetheless.

Totally unscientific generalization that is.

So that makes you think ALL obese people lack self control.

Remind me not to invest money in any science endeavor of yours.

You guys accuse me of posting emotionally? Yeah, right.

No JT, I am saying they choose not to take control. Big difference.

I officially give up. You choose to ignore all I've posted about how the body fights the cure, resetting metabolism points, etc. If you don't mind living your life not understanding the complexity of obesity, be my guest.

OMG. You actually believe that because a small percentage of fat people achieve weight loss and keep it off for a few years, that ALL fat people can realistically expect the same result, simply with self directed diet and exercise alone? And that all of this vast majority of people are WEAK!?! Incredible. I am speechless.

Clueless might be a better word for it. You are ignoring the reasons people become obese in the first place. It doesn't happen by chance or some magic fat gene. The lack of control that leads to eating too much of the wrong thing is the same as the lack of control that keeps people from changing their diet or exercising. I have no will power to exercise but I do have the will power to keep to a diet. I jump on the scale every morning to monitor my weight. Because people get obese the same way - one gram at a time. It sneaks up on you if you aren't paying close attention.

Here's an analogy for you...Why do you see so many really tall people playing basketball? Because tall kids are led to that sport because they are tall, not because they have a special basketball gene in their DNA.

People? Like babies. Fat babies become fat children become fat adults. Those babies. No will power!

OMG. You actually believe that because a small percentage of fat people achieve weight loss and keep it off for a few years, that ALL fat people can realistically expect the same result, simply with self directed diet and exercise alone? And that all of this vast majority of people are WEAK!?! Incredible. I am speechless.

Clueless might be a better word for it. You are ignoring the reasons people become obese in the first place. It doesn't happen by chance or some magic fat gene. The lack of control that leads to eating too much of the wrong thing is the same as the lack of control that keeps people from changing their diet or exercising. I have no will power to exercise but I do have the will power to keep to a diet. I jump on the scale every morning to monitor my weight. Because people get obese the same way - one gram at a time. It sneaks up on you if you aren't paying close attention.

Here's an analogy for you...Why do you see so many really tall people playing basketball? Because tall kids are led to that sport because they are tall, not because they have a special basketball gene in their DNA.

No, Jingthing, nobody is saying ALL fat people (your capitals) can expect the same result. The consensus on this thread, and on most links which are relevant , is that most people can deal with obesity if their diet is correct (each individual is different here). I am not talking, and have never been talking on this thread about A diet (my capital), but on maintaining the correct healthy food intake LIFELONG. (my capitals)

Obviously one has to start this diet at some stage, and should do so before your obesity gets out of control.

Yes, I take your point about fat babies... but again I think they, like the grossly obese, are still a minority.

I have put in a few individual 'life histories' because I want to make the point that every individual is different, and generalisation does them a disservice.

No there is no evidence whatsoever that MOST obese people can control their weight in the long term by diet and exercise. Those that do are a small minority. The evidence points in the opposite direction, that the cures (diet and exercise) fight back. Again, maybe too complex for some of you. Sorry about that, I can't help in that regard.

People? Like babies. Fat babies become fat children become fat adults. Those babies. No will power!

What is the percentage of obese people in society compared to the number of fat babies? I guarantee the % of obese is several times higher than that of fat babies. Newborns are "typically in the range of 2.7–4.6 kg (5.5–10 pounds)". I was well over the average when I was born, 4.6 kg, and I'm not obese.

Again with the quaint anecdotal stories applying to ALL of humanity. Bunch of Albert Einsteins in this joint, innit? Of course I wasn't only talking about birth weight. DUH! Of course the fatness quite often starts in childhood, again through little or no fault of the young'uns. Then those kiddies are mostly doomed to adult obesity. Not meaningless personal anecdotes. Facts.

No there is no evidence whatsoever that MOST obese people can control their weight in the long term by diet and exercise. Those that do are a small minority. The evidence points in the opposite direction, that the cures (diet and exercise) fight back.

You talk about diet and exercise not working for most obese people. What percentage of these obese people for whom it "doesn't work" stick to the program? 10%? 5%?

A few years back a friend of mine commented on how I looked good because I had lost a little weight. She asked about what diet I was on because she had been trying to lose weight unsuccessfully. When I told her I cut sweets out entirely, she told me, "Oh, no, I can't do that. I must have my cake". I told her to get used to being overweight because it won't change if she insists on eating that junk.

A common underlying thread to obese people who can't lose weight is that they cheat on their diets. They insist on eating unhealthy things because they "deserve" or "earned" it or they think "just this once" too many times. It doesn't work that way. You have to stick with it. Over the past 20 years my weight has fluctuated within a 15 kg range. Each and every spike in weight gain I can attribute to saying "the heck with it, I'm eating what I want". I cheated on my own regular diet and I gained weight.

Of course the fatness quite often starts in childhood, again through little or no fault of the young'uns. Then those kiddies are mostly doomed to adult obesity. Not meaningless personal anecdotes. Facts.

And who feeds these fat kids? Mom and Dad instilling bad habits in the kids by feeding them junk.

OMG! Deal with this: the vast majority of obese people are fated to be obese for life and most of them have dieted quite a lot, swinging up and down. But this "therapy" fails them. I explained why. The body fights the cure and creates a vicious cycle. It is science. Not about your irrelevant PERSONAL story.

Of course the fatness quite often starts in childhood, again through little or no fault of the young'uns. Then those kiddies are mostly doomed to adult obesity. Not meaningless personal anecdotes. Facts.

And who feeds these fat kids? Mom and Dad instilling bad habits in the kids by feeding them junk.

Yes of course. Duh! What's your point?

Fat people have no WILL POWER.

...next.

OMG! Deal with this: the vast majority of obese people are fated to be obese for life and most of them have dieted quite a lot, swinging up and down. But this "therapy" fails them. I explained why. The body fights the cure and creates a vicious cycle. It is science. Not about your irrelevant PERSONAL story.

Didn't believe that the first time you said it, especially the part were the body resets itself.

Are you seriously trying to claim that some people, because of this vicious cycle, would end up eating one peanut a day and still put on weight, which is just preposterous.

I will grant you that some people do burn energy faster than others just by their metabolism, so there is no one size fits all diet. That has been proved time and time again.

But once you have found the right amount of intake for an individual to go about their normal activities without passing out from hunger, well.

OMG! Deal with this: the vast majority of obese people are fated to be obese for life and most of them have dieted quite a lot, swinging up and down. But this "therapy" fails them. I explained why. The body fights the cure and creates a vicious cycle. It is science. Not about your irrelevant PERSONAL story.

Didn't believe that the first time you said it, especially the part were the body resets itself.

Are you seriously trying to claim that some people, because of this vicious cycle, would end up eating one peanut a day and still put on weight, which is just preposterous.

I will grant you that some people do burn energy faster than others just by their metabolism, so there is no one size fits all diet. That has been proved time and time again.

But once you have found the right amount of intake for an individual to go about their normal activities without passing out from hunger, well.

I think when you can't remember the last time you were truly hungry that says it all really.

If you only eat when you are hungry that is certainly one of the steps to becoming slimmer.

I don't understand why JT keeps going on about us insulting fat people. Its simply not happening on this thread!

Yes it has. The talk that this issue is all about will power and self control. So fat people are demonized as weak. When science now knows that is totally false.

You ought to be more careful with your quotes. I didn't post the above - Smokie36 did.

OMG! Deal with this: the vast majority of obese people are fated to be obese for life and most of them have dieted quite a lot, swinging up and down. But this "therapy" fails them. I explained why. The body fights the cure and creates a vicious cycle. It is science. Not about your irrelevant PERSONAL story.

Didn't believe that the first time you said it, especially the part were the body resets itself.

Are you seriously trying to claim that some people, because of this vicious cycle, would end up eating one peanut a day and still put on weight, which is just preposterous.

I will grant you that some people do burn energy faster than others just by their metabolism, so there is no one size fits all diet. That has been proved time and time again.

But once you have found the right amount of intake for an individual to go about their normal activities without passing out from hunger, well.

OMG! Deal with this: the vast majority of obese people are fated to be obese for life and most of them have dieted quite a lot, swinging up and down. But this "therapy" fails them. I explained why. The body fights the cure and creates a vicious cycle. It is science. Not about your irrelevant PERSONAL story.

Didn't believe that the first time you said it, especially the part were the body resets itself.

Are you seriously trying to claim that some people, because of this vicious cycle, would end up eating one peanut a day and still put on weight, which is just preposterous.

I will grant you that some people do burn energy faster than others just by their metabolism, so there is no one size fits all diet. That has been proved time and time again.

But once you have found the right amount of intake for an individual to go about their normal activities without passing out from hunger, well.

This is what I've been trying to get across, DIET, not A DIET. (These capitals are catching.)

JT, you keep talking about SCIENCE, and then get all emotional. I can understand you getting all emotional, but don't keep trying to tell us it's science. It took an awful lot of pushing to get you to come up with ANY evidence. Too much of "the vast majority", and phrases like that. I can't give you figures or percentages; I don't know them.... but at least I admit it instead of trying to bludgeon my way through everyone's defences!

This all started with whether it was PC to call anyone obese, or even overweight. Well, I'm not very PC, and I think (no percentages) that an awful lot of people are plain stupid. They may realise they're getting fat (some don't even get that far), but tell themselves, "Just one more icecream" etc... and NEVER try to do anything about it until it's too late. That's at least one reason why so many people are seriously obese these days.

If you're a fat bastard it's because you eat too much...

If you actually BELIEVE it is all that simple rather than just trying to be provocative, I truly feel sorry for you.

No I'm not trying to be provocative. I just have opinions that are different to yours and I'm expressing them. I know you find this hard to deal with but deal with it you will have to. I have been there, done that and got the Tshirt. I was fat - now I'm less so. I'm not a sylph but I'm not a lardarse either. I don't exercise much if at all. I did it simply by changing the things I eat and, more importantly sticking to that change. I didn't go on a diet for 3 months and then, when I'd lost weight, revert to my old eating habits. The change stayed - so did the weight loss.

It's a bit ironic that we're discussing the PCness of calling people fat in a Thai forum. Thais do it all the time. When I tell the BF I'm on the way to Thailand he often asks 'you fat this year or thin?'.

It's a bit ironic that we're discussing the PCness of calling people fat in a Thai forum. Thais do it all the time. When I tell the BF I'm on the way to Thailand he often asks 'you fat this year or thin?'.

I don't understand why JT keeps going on about us insulting fat people. Its simply not happening on this thread!

Yes it has. The talk that this issue is all about will power and self control. So fat people are demonized as weak. When science now knows that is totally false.

You ought to be more careful with your quotes. I didn't post the above - Smokie36 did.

Sorry for the error. You should report it and have it deleted.